The Cardinal Nation blog

Brian Walton's news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals (TM) and their minor league system

Another angle on a Wainwright extension

Late last week, I laid out the top contracts of starting pitchers across Major League Baseball and compared them to what Adam Wainwright might make in 2014 and beyond.

Polls were included that allowed readers to express your favored number of years, dollars and timing. Four years was the leader in the voting, with the money in the $17-$20 million per year range.

That comparison was probably more oriented to the player’s view, as Wainwright is older and has a lower career WAR than the others in that initial analysis.

So in looking at the situation from another perspective, let’s review two pitchers who recently signed contracts at money that might be considered the next tier lower than Cole Hamels and the like.

Interestingly, they both agreed to terms with the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, a club Cardinals fans know is not hesitant to spend money.

One was an extension, Jered Weaver, with the other a free agent, C.J. Wilson. Wilson is over 30, like Wainwright, with Weaver having logged a higher career WAR.

These two pitchers settled for five-year deals with average annual values (AAV) in the $15.5 million to $17 million range and full no-trade protection (NTC).

Pitcher Date Yrs Guarantee AAV Start yr Start age End yr End age NTC Career WAR
Adam Wainwright TBD 2014 32 17.9
C.J. Wilson 12/8/2011 5 $77.5MM $15.5MM 2012 31 2017 36 full 12.9
Jered Weaver 8/22/2011 5 $85MM $17MM 2012 29 2017 34 full 27.2

Do these contracts change your view of what the Cardinals should offer Wainwright?

Knowing this, I would…

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Knowing this, I would…

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52 Responses to “Another angle on a Wainwright extension”

  1. Bw52 says:

    Concerning the rotation i read that Westbrook intends to pick up his option and wants to stay in STlouis in 2013.Since he is pitching better this year than last year and his option is fairly cheap (8.0 million) sounds like a smart move for the Cards to pick up his option up.Also while hoping Wainwright stays with a reasonable contract…………………………..no 17 or 18 million yearly .Having a reliable arm can`t hurt.

  2. blingboy says:

    I wouldn’t be against trading the whole team. And I’m sick of hearing about trading for pitching.

    If we can’t win with Wainy turning in a quality start, followed by the pen turning in 3 scoreless innings, then getting more pitching isn’t going to help.

    • kray66 says:

      Yeah, I’d like to see a move, but when I really think about it, I don’t know what they need other than someone to light a fire under them. You can’t really trade for consistency for the whole team, which is what we seem to lack.

  3. blingboy says:

    The only pitcher it would make sense to get is Cliff Lee. Not that we need a top starter, but that’s the kind of blockbuster that would shake things up. Light a fire. Go for it Mo.

  4. blingboy says:

    Aside. There is a college summer league called the Cape Cod League and they just had their All-Star game. Except it wasn’t a baseball game at all. At the end of 9 innings the score was tied. And that was it. 9 innings and its done. That is not how a baseball game works.

    If they want to hold an “All-Star 9 inning exhibition of baseball”, fine. Don’t call it what its not. I’m trying to picture Bob Gibson participating.

  5. blingboy says:

    Yesterday Greinke turned in a quality start and the Angels pen finished up without allowing any runs. Didn’t matter. Pay attention Mo.

    Interesting to hear that the Yankees tried to acquire the Boog but the Mariners turned them down. Brendan in pinstripes would have been rich.

  6. Bw52 says:

    Bling
    Angels put a whipping on Texas today 15-8. Albert went 3-4 2 2Bs 2 RBIs.Average now .282.

    • blingboy says:

      I was watching. Can only take so much field hockey and synchronized diving. You too, I take it.

      He’s always been good at feeding on middle relief. I’m sure I’ve never heard of Michael Kirkman.

      • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

        “The Rays last week dispatched several scouts to Springfield to watch the organization’s Double-A club. Colorado also is interested in Cards minor-league pitching.”

        Kelly/ not Miller…no interest/ but something from AA / and one other player…….. for Shields …… can anyone guess who the AA player might have been????????? ………that wasn’t the expensive part…..we were looking for TB to pick up JS’s costs for the year……or as much as we were looking for on the trade-in………. they weren’t interested……… Yanks are ailing……TB is still in it…..but they entertain trade options always………. they never give money away……………. what was that JMo doing……..???? the answer…… what he was told to do…

        The key statement………..TB is still in it………..

        • blingboy says:

          The new rules have really turned this trading of prospects for immediate help into a tricky business. So much depends on who happens to get hot at the end, and if its not you, you don’t get to reload. Mo surely knows luck smiled upon him last year.

          He’s right to be careful with the Rays. Those guys live downtown.

          On the main site, somebody pointed out that there is the Boras factor involved with the issue of resigning Lohse. I had forgotten about that. Obviously, Mo wouldn’t have.

          About 6 hours to go. All is quiet it seems. Nobody is tied to the stake, bleating.

  7. blingboy says:

    Here is the quote from an anonymous NL executive about Shelby Miller.

    “We’ve lost interest. I know that,” said one NL executive. “The stuff coming out of his hand isn’t as good. And the body doesn’t look good. He’s gotten a little heavy, and he’s not the same guy.”

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8214694/five-teams-watch-trade-deadline-approache

  8. Bw52 says:

    Seeing the Cubs trading who they can is not surprise.Seeing the Phillies trading Pence is a surprise.Yet the Phillies are still stuck with the monster contracts of Lee,Halladay, and the big money just given to Hamels………………………plus a older Rollins,Ryan Howard etc;……………maybe Philies are hoping more deals happen in August…………..
    Still leaves the phillies with a aging team with a big payroll.

    • blingboy says:

      The Phillies fell far and fast and it seems like they don’t really have a plan. A year or two ago the east coast media was calling them the Yankees of the NL.

  9. blingboy says:

    I’m watching a tennis set that is 23-22. Canada and France. They need to get Bud involved.

  10. crdswmn says:

    Okay, we just traded Zack Cox for Edward Mujica. Color me shocked.

    • blingboy says:

      So contract boy turned out to be worth a dime-a-dozen middle relief guy.

      He was supposed to be the ‘best pure hitter in the draft’ IIRC.

      • Bw52 says:

        Zack Cox night be the starting 3B in Miami.How quickly things change…………………Cards must be real happy about what they have seen from this years draftees at the hot corner (Stephen Piscotty .262 at Quad Cities, Patrick Wisdom .277 at Batavia, Carson Kelly .249 with power at rookie ball).
        Cards also must feel Matt Carpenter can do okay in case of Freese injury………………interesting situation.

  11. friendmouse says:

    Does flourescent pink work? :)

  12. crdswmn says:

    Gaby Sanchez to the Pirates.

  13. Bw52 says:

    Jonathan Broxton to the Redlegs

  14. crdswmn says:

    Rangers won the Ryan Dempster sweepstakes.

  15. blingboy says:

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch:
    1. Daniel Descalso (L) SS
    2. Allen Craig (R) 1B
    3. Matt Holliday (R) LF
    4. Carlos Beltran (S) RF
    5. David Freese (R) 3B
    6. Yadier Molina (R) C
    7. Jon Jay (L) CF
    8. Skip Schumaker (L) 2B
    9. Kyle Lohse (R) P

  16. blingboy says:

    A different take on the new playoff format in Gordon’s Trade Deadline story.

    “Bud Selig’s new format calls for a play-in game between two wild-card hopefuls. While that gives more teams mathematical life, it is a clear disincentive to go overboard. How much is anybody willing to sacrifice for one more game?”

    I hope he wasn’t specifically thinking about the Cards. I’d like to think we are still playing for the division. But without the shakeup of a big trade, I don’t know what to expect.

  17. blingboy says:

    Skip never would have had a triple if he had been slowed by the friction and wind resistance of dragging flopping cuffs. He wouldn’t have looked as good either.

  18. blingboy says:

    Mujica’s ERA is only a little worse than Ottavino’s.

  19. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Cards stand pat……………………. they have no needs………..

    • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

      27 pitches for Mott………..an inning for Boggs in a 6 run game………… the ONLY reason that Rosenthal wasn’t up……….to pitch a few innings before his plane flight………… is what the problem is here………. that’s MO worried about his property..or better yet……..our perception of said property…and MM had his instructions…………

      nice little hit by Jay to pick up the run…….. why not play smarter everyday John Jay ……….. I don’t see us sweeping this team….as bad as they are……………

  20. blingboy says:

    Once an organization admits that its team is wretched and needs rebuilding, there is every incentive to become even more wretched. A more wretched team will lose more games and get better draft picks. The players on the field continue to do their best, but the result is the same as it would be if the players threw games. The managers may be encouraged to play guys being looked at for next year, or showcased as trade bait, rather than putting the team with the best chance of winning on the field. These kind of strategies, which involve losing more games than you have to, are all OK, being legitimate efforts to improve the team’s chances long term.

    It is the current scandal at the olympics that got me thinking about it. The way badminton is set up, teams can sometimes improve their chances of getting into the medal round by losing. Its because they can manipulate who their next opponant will be, etc. But the bottom line is that the system is set up in such a way that losing now can improve your chances of overall success.

    In baseball, its ok for the front office to do the dirty deed but not ok for the players to do it. In olympic badminton, there isn’t any front office, and you can’t sub in shitty players so you can rack up the loss. So its on the players, which is a no-no. The Chinese, Koreans, etc., probably don’t fully grasp the profound importance of this subtlety. Perhaps in their cultures it is absurd to make such a distinction, being one merely of form and not of substance.

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