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World Series DVD Set trivia: La Russa on the “other” career wins list

Correctly answer a two-part St. Louis Cardinals post-season-related trivia question and win a free 2011 World Series DVD Set from The Cardinal Nation Blog.

Welcome to the first of a series of 2011 St. Louis Cardinals-related post-season trivia questions here at The Cardinal Nation Blog. Before responding, please familiarize yourself with the complete contest rules (follow the link) to ensure your entry will qualify.

The reader who posts the first complete and correct answer below will win a free copy of The 2011 World Series Champions Collectors Edition DVD Set. This eight-disc collection from A+E Networks Home Entertainment/MLB Productions includes all seven complete World Series games plus a bonus DVD full of great extras and retails for $71.99.

Here is your trivia question. Note that it has two parts, both of which must be answered correctly. Only one answer per person is allowed.

Many people know that Tony La Russa retired with the third-most regular-season managerial wins of all time – 2,728 to be exact. Including Game 7 of the World Series, how many career post-season victories did Tony La Russa’s teams collect AND where is he ranked on that all-time managerial wins list?

Good luck to everyone and please remember to read the rules first.

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198 Responses to “World Series DVD Set trivia: La Russa on the “other” career wins list”

  1. taxboy says:

    70 wins and 2nd on list, behind Joe Torre

  2. taxboy says:

    Sweet! Thanks Brian. Enjoy your work.

  3. Jmodene says:

    Had the answer right, but didn’t log on until now. The curse of a daytime job. ;)

  4. JumboShrimp says:

    The competition for Pujols seems to be heating up.
    Could anyone have anticipated the Marlins would reverse their ways and dive into spending big on free agents?
    (Dade County Florida is to be investigated for underwriting much of the cost of a new baseball stadium for the Marlins. Maybe the Marlins are spending big on players to distract from the investigation?)
    Also the Cubs are involved in bidding on Pujols as well, it is reported.
    Its a crazy situation, Jeff Loria as a high spender versus Theo Epstein who has long been one. Lots of rumors, hard to know what could be real or just the speculations of reporters.
    In any event, the Cards are covered by having signed Lance Berkman for 2012. Signing Lance and revising the contract on Chris Carpenter were easy. No big to do with the Union.

  5. crdswmn says:

    Rumor has it the Marlins have offered Pujols a 10 year deal. No amount known. Watch out Albert.

    • RCWarrior says:

      Don’t sweat it Crdswmn. He’s not leaving GOD’s country and the BEST fans in baseball. It will never happen.

      • crdswmn says:

        Well, we will see. It is not looking good for the Cardinals so far.

        • Brian Walton says:

          C’mon, crdswmn. You are usually the one wisely reminding us to not heed the negotiating rhetoric. No one knows money or term details.

          • crdswmn says:

            Oh, I didn’t mean that I thought the Marlins was a done deal or anything. I just meant the current “momentum”, if you believe in that sort of thing, is against the Cardinals right now. Of course, if the Cardinals come back with a competitive counteroffer that will all change.

            • RCWarrior says:

              The Cardinals will swoop in at the last minute and place a winning bid. The Cards were always going to have to up that first offer. They just weren’t going to break the bank on offer number one. Its coming though.

              • crdswmn says:

                Maybe, but then my question is will it be worth it? As a lawyer I understand the business and economic side of this. but as a fan and an ordinary citizen, there is an obscene element to this as well. So much money to a man to play a game and to (at least in the minds of some) feed an ego. Am I naive to believe there are higher things to aspire to? People point to Pujols and his humanitarian work as a rationalization for the money, but let’s face it, his humanitarian work is specifically targeted to a personal demographic. I’m not diminishing the importance of it, but let’s face it, it is not completely unselfish.

                I didn’t mean to preach, but I can’t not think about these things as well.

            • Brian Walton says:

              “Momentum” as solely defined by media reports.

  6. Kansasbirdman says:

    Rosenthal reporting offer was over 200 million for 10 years, and “the money is apparently acceptable to Pujols” now just working out no trade clause.

    Why would AP or Lozano say that the amount is acceptable? Then they have set a number?

  7. T8Ball says:

    Unrelated, Craig has surgery on knee, out 4-6 months.

    That knee didn’t heal properly, I guess.

    If Albert were to leave this becomes more significant.

  8. blingboy says:

    Guillon doesn’t get it.

    First, he can’t announce were he would put Albert in the batting order. Suggesting the mang would have no input and could be moved about like a piece on a chessboard, one of several. That’s not how it would work, Ozzie.

    Second, ‘this is Hanley’s team’. Albert is not signing up for supporting cast, either on the field or in the clubhouse hierarchy.

    The first thing Loria has to do is get that manager/reality disconnect straightened out. If we don’t see furious public backfilling by Ozzie, then its all just for show, and Cardinal nation can relax.

    • Brian Walton says:

      Interesting. Sort of like our theme yesterday, he can really only talk about what he has. Building up Hanley after signing Reyes isn’t surprising. But Hanley’s team today could be Albert’s team tomorrow. Today is still today, however.

      Trying to get Ozzie under control would be futile. If they actually land Albert, he will be under tremendous pressure to win.

    • blingboy says:

      The Marlin’s pres insists they won’t sign any FA to a no-trade contract.

      First, its a mistake to imply that Albert can be lumped in with free agents as a group, subject to the same rules and policies. It couldn’t help but increase Albert’s discomfort with the idea of switching his environment. That is not how his world has worked.

      Second, picture a few years down the road, and Albert is part of one of those bad contract for bad contract trades. He will, if he hasn’t yet, try to guess which of the wreched, payroll sucking coasters he might be swapped for and where that might take him and De, and into what environment. Not likely the friendly confines and warm embrace.

    • blingboy says:

      As I observe the fish making mis-steps in the Albert chase, having failed to observe the nuance and convention of the strange new land they tred, or perhaps not even understanding that they have crossed over, I come back to the Westie theory that the Cards intent was to make an offer that wouldn’t be good enough.

      The theory is that the Cards don’t want to tie up all that money for all those years, for a player who will unquestionably not be worth it on the field. So the offer is meant to be good enough for cover, but not good enough for Albert to accept.

      A reasonable plan when implimented last winter, but it may have been overtaken by events. Or trampled by a retreating market. In other words, it may be too late. The offer as it stands, whatever it is, may turn out to already be good enough, and may end up being accepted.

      That would be one of the great miscalculations of all time, and we may never hear about it.

      The Marlin’s brass’s inability to stay out of their own way, if they are serious, isn’t helping. Bill and Mo should give them a primer. On the sly of course. If the theory is true.

  9. blingboy says:

    Lou Schuler, are you out there?

    Couple of HGH questions, if anybody knows.

    How long do you have to be off HGH before you will test clean?

    If you are clean for six weeks or so, and then resume using, does that hiatus have any significant effect on whatever good stuff the HGH is doing for you? and if so, then

    How long do you have to be back using before you get the good stuff back?

  10. crdswmn says:

    Now Buster Olney is tweeting that Mo is shopping Lohse. Uh….NTC? Does Mo know something we don’t?

    • Brian Walton says:

      NTC can be solved with money. Seems unlikely to me that anything would happen, but finding a taker may depend greatly on the level of cash willing to be eaten. I can’t see how this would be sensible considering the replacement cost and hope a series of moves like this do not become Plan B if Albert leaves.

      • crdswmn says:

        Rosenthal just tweeted that they are shopping Lohse or Westbrook. More money for Pujols or making room for another SP?

        The world has gone mad. :P

      • T8Ball says:

        I had a convo with Westie yesterday on this, and it drove me to this final question(s):

        If we are “shopping Lohse with a NTC” isn’t it more expensive for us vs. another team inquiring about Lohse on their own.

        Wouldn’t we have to give compensation to Lohse to get around the NTC, plus eat part, if not half, of his salary, and perhaps part of his next, if an sign/extension and trade happens?

        How much could we save off his 12million salary? Is it worth it? Where does that money that is saved go? Albert? Another FA?

        Not to mention he was a best statistical pitcher last season. How do you replace that?

        • T8Ball says:

          correction ~ “….our best statistical pitcher…” not “a best……”

          • crdswmn says:

            What statistics are you relying on?

            • T8Ball says:

              WHIP, Wins. He didn’t lead all, but led quite a few. If he’s traded, I’m not upset, but healthy, Lohse is a decent pitcher. I would imagine if he continues healthy, then he’ll improve over his 2011 stats. 15-16 wins isn’t out of the question.

              • crdswmn says:

                W/L record is a worthless stat. WHIP by itself is also not an indicator of anything.

                I am not a sabermetrics person, but those who are would give you stats that are a much better indicator of performance.

                • T8Ball says:

                  Agreed, but I’d still take Lohse over Westbrook. Any statistician would agree.

                  Also, when fresh last season (early on), Lohse gave us several good outings that extended to the 7th inning and beyond.

                  I don’t think Lynn nor Rzep could duplicate Lohse’s stats, no matter what form you use.

                  • Nutlaw says:

                    Lohse had a solid 4.04 xFIP last year.
                    Westbrook had a 4.08 xFIP.
                    Carpenter had a 3.31 xFIP.
                    Garcia had a 3.31 xFIP as well.
                    Jackson had a 3.73 xFIP.

                    Wainwright would hopefully at least match Carpenter and Garcia next year. All of the rest of the pitchers were reasonably good, too. If everything else were equal, I’d rather have Lohse on the team than Westbrook.

        • crdswmn says:

          Well, I guess like Brian said it would depend on the takers and how much the club would be willing to eat. As for replacement, there are internal cheap replacement options such as Lynn or Rzpeczynki,

        • T8Ball says:

          Would it not be cheaper for the Cards to trade Westbrook? He has the 2013 option. Tendering it could bypass the NTC, plus it’s only 8.5 million per 2 years? eat 3-4 million that’s a 5 million savings. Probably the same if not more than trading Lohse. I’d want Lohse vs. Westbrook in the starting 5.

      • T8Ball says:

        I understand that 2012 with Albert would be a very tight payroll, especially to get to that 110million quote. Clever contracting can get you under the 110, I’m sure. We also lose nearly 33 million in payroll with 3 players after 2012.

        Min. salaries go up nearly 700k with the CBA (does that happen 2012?) making it even tougher to get to and not surpass 110.

        I’m at a loss….as Crdswmn said, “The world has gone mad”

  11. blingboy says:

    Matheney looking to hire a bullpen catcher. What happened to Murph?

  12. JumboShrimp says:

    For the Cards to make a new offer, they must feel reason to do so. They must think Pujols has gotten at least one better offer, so they must have sweetened their offer.

  13. JumboShrimp says:

    I do not share RCW’s assumption that Pujols will re-sign with the Cards.

    If Pujols were to resign with the Cards, he could have done so a year ago. Instead, the situation is out of his control. He is going to sign with the highest bidder, on behalf of the Union. If the Cards are high bidder, Albert will re-sign. If not, he will go elsewhere.

    The Marlins are on-fire to spend money. They outbid other teams for SS Reyes and for the San Diego closer. The Marlins are willing to soar high. The Cards have to decide how high they will soar.

    Tony ended his time with the Cards. The Cards signed Lance to replace Albert, if he moves on. We will go high, but can be outbid by a team wanting to make a statement, for publicity purposes.

    • JumboShrimp says:

      On the other hand, the Marlins do not want to get stuck in protracted negotiations. If they think they are only being used to get more money out of the Cards, then they may move on to other targets. This makes sense for them.

      Just because Pujols and the Cards supposedly engaged in negotations for years, this was essentially all for show business purposes, so both player and team could say they were talking.

      The real bidding has only begun recently. Things may move faster than during Matt Holiday’s long negotiation. Other players want this resolved, so they can pursue their own negotiations.

      We shall find out what happens.

    • Brian Walton says:

      Jumbo, your belief of the level of control of the union in deciding who goes where is overstated. Otherwise, how can you explain last winter when Cliff Lee received higher offers from both the Yankees and the Rangers but instead signed with Philadelphia? Not all top tier players take the most money.

      • JumboShrimp says:

        New York has higher City and State taxes than some other situations. Maybe this could hurt the Yankees bidding for Lee. Also a lot of people do not like living in New York and might find Philly more agreeable.
        Speaking of tax advantages, the absence of an income tax in Florida has got to help the Marlins in wooing free agents.

        • Brian Walton says:

          What about Texas? You glossed right over that. No State income tax, you say? Maybe no one told the union that… ;-)

        • crdswmn says:

          This idea that Florida is a economic Utopia because of the lack of state income tax is way off. The cost of living in Florida vs. Missouri is significantly higher and takes away much of the benefit. One of my best friends lives in Florida and she constantly complains about the cost of everything down there compared to what her family in Missouri pays.

          • RCWarrior says:

            I agree with you when it comes to the every day person as far as money goes but when you are speaking about someone who is about to make over 20 million bucks a year you are talking about savings of millions of dollars in state income tax. I’m sure over the course of a 10 year deal you would be talking about more money than most people make in a lifetime in savings.

            • crdswmn says:

              No one has mentioned that the State of Washington has no state income tax either. Pujols could save money and play with Brendan Ryan at the same time. :)

              • Kansasbirdman says:

                I wonder how that works, tax wise. I know you can get taxed in the State that you make your income and then taxed in the State in which you reside (offset by deductions for taxes previously paid to the other State and only if the tax in the home state are higher). But a baseball travels all over the country arguably earning their salary in many different states and locales. I am sure the IRS and personal accountants have it all settled by now, but I am ignorant as to how that works.

  14. JumboShrimp says:

    Of course, Lohse or Westbrook are available. Many highly paid veterans on many teams are available. The big problem is finding another team willing to shoulder their salaries.
    Other teams will prefer Lohse, because he threw more innings. This could make Kyle more tradeable, except he is also more costly, so it may be a wash.

  15. blingboy says:

    Trying to keep an eye on the Albert drama while at work. BJ Rains says the Cards made a new offer to Lozano this evening, subsequent to today’s Marlins 10/200+ reported offer. According to Mo, the ball is in Albert’s court. Might resolve sooner rather than later. Anything else?

    Are the Cards looking at Beltran? Why? Craig wouldn’t be out too long.

    The Beuhrle thing might just be a gaggle of reporters hyperventilating.

  16. crdswmn says:

    “The Cardinals rejoined the spreading fray for free agent first baseman Albert Pujols on Tuesday afternoon by offering the three-time National League MVP a deal believed worth more than $220 million for 10 years.”

    Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cards-boost-offer-to-pujols/article_968bf333-74e8-5b87-b245-ae4ae5b33301.html#ixzz1fpOWOsyg

    • RCWarrior says:

      The Cardinals will go as high as they have to in the end. Its pretty obvious to me that most teams know this and have decided not to even enter the fray.

      It was worth a shot for the Marlins to make a play for Albert and hope that his fondness for the Latino community would play on his decision on where he signed his next contract.

      …….but by today the Marlins will know that they will not be able to outbid the cardinals and that Albert is only using them to get more money from St. Louis. It looks like Albert made an additional 20+ million in upgrades from the original St. Louis offer. If he can get another 10-20 million in additional upgrades over the next few days I believe he will call it a day and sign with St. Louis.

  17. JumboShrimp says:

    Fielder seems a better fit for the Cubs. So the business objective of the Cubs is to express interest in Pujols and to talk him up, in hopes of raising his price for the Cardinals, while saving Cubs moola for the Fielder auction.
    It makes sense if the Angels are bidding on Pujols. Art Moreno would love to have Albert on his team. LA is a huge market. The Angels can outbid the Marlins or Cards, if they choose to do so.

    • RCWarrior says:

      I would respectfully disagree Jumbo. I doubt anyone can outbid St. Louis for Albert because they just cannot allow it to happen imo. I do agree that Art can outbid Florida/Miami. Miami just took a stab at the pot with this last offer. They knew it wasn’t going to get it done but figured they would take a shot at it. They will now fold their hand and move on.

      • blingboy says:

        IMO Mr. DeWit has lost his marbles.

        • crdswmn says:

          Some of the sting can be taken out of the contract if they frontload the hell out of it.

          • T8Ball says:

            Arod’s contract went from a high in 2009 of 33million to a low in 2017 of 21million.

            Only other 10 year contract I can remember.

            • CariocaCardinal says:

              And his production is dropping even faster!

              • T8Ball says:

                just an example I offered to back what Crdswmn stated. What’s even more interesting is Arod’s first year of his 10year extension he made on 25million, then jumped to 33million. Albert would probably have to do the same as a Cardinal for 2012. DeWitt’s 110million payroll would mean that Albert would probably make 17-19 million in 2012, then see a raise in 2013 to get the AAV back inline.

                From 2013 to 2017 I could see north of 26 million per year, then a gradual decline to give more wiggle room at the end of the contract.

            • T8Ball says:

              Teixierra had an 8 year contract but his salary remained constant at 23.125

              Jeter had a 10/189, but his steadily increased until the remaining year @ 22.6 million

  18. Kansasbirdman says:

    Some don’t think a 10 year contract that takes a player through age 41 is advisable.

    JP Morosi quoting Stats LLC that since 1980 there have been 397 times when a position player appeared in the majors duirng a season in which he was 38 or older on April 1.
    28 of that group made the All-Star team (7.1%). Pujols would have 4 such years.

    Those don’t seem too bad of odds though. What is the percentage of players that make the All-Star team that are eligible in a given year anyway?

    • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

      So you think this is about baseball???????? BHSC is old money………they are the front for the much more powerful “talent” agencies from better part of the last century……… The SEC is and independent agency, in an attempt to keep politics at a minimum…….like the FED……. their performance in the last 10yrs has been very special to many……………… they are rotten with old money………. NY teams…..Florida teams…………St Louis has a ball club……. no one wants politics to enter the stadium building “sanctuary”……………… As in the final acts of the steroid “era”…….someone shot a round or two across the bow of NY and A-Rod…….which was followed up by a similar volley over David Otiz and the Red Stockings……over their behaviors in the Mark T. affair……………. I would watch that closely……… are we watching a closely choreographed “dance”…………. I don’t know……….is it about baseball??????????

      That would mean all the BS you’ve watched in the last 2 yrs has been about “money”………..or just an incredible surgery to separate Tony form AP??????????………. The world series was unexpected…..it would have been different if the Braves had just won a few games………is DeWitt worried about money…………….hell know……. he will just raise ticket prices……… his new business model is operating………. and what????? he will get rid of 20+ wins…….because that seems like everyone will understand…….we have lots of pitching ……right? ………. enter Scott Boras ………. everyone wants pitching……… its like Christmas………….

  19. CariocaCardinal says:

    people need to look at this as 8/200 (25 per) with 2/20 tacked on the end for marketing. 8/25 is probably the high end I’d want to pay for Pujols but palatable. He is also probably worth more than 2/20 those last 2 years for marketing purposes. Any production above average you get those last 2 years would be a bonus.

  20. CariocaCardinal says:

    I think Lozano blew his one shot to get a bidding war going by thinking the Marlins would keep upping their bid. I doubt the Cardinals respond to another attempt by Lozano at a bidding war.

    • T8Ball says:

      you don’t think another Lozano puppet lies in wait? Cubs/Angels? Haven’t seen an offer yet, but a 7-8 year offer of 26-27 AAV wouldn’t shock me, and then a little bidding war could emerge.

      • CariocaCardinal says:

        That I don’t know, but I don’t think Cards change their bid for another team at this point. They might tolerate getting used as pawns once but not a second time.

  21. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45557697/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/federal-regulators-probe-miami-stadium-bonds/#.Tt-9XPLQeSo

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/12/05/2532405/sec-probing-financing-of-new-marlins.html

    Miami-Dade County commissioners nevertheless voted 9-4 in favor of taking out loans that will cost the county $2.4 billion over 40 years to help build the stadium in Little Havana

    According to The Miami Herald, the SEC is demanding financial documents dealing with the nearly $500 million in bond sales in addition to records of campaign contributions from the Marlins to local and state officials.

    Furthermore, the SEC is requesting that minutes of meetings between government officials, owner Jeffrey Loria, and Commissioner Bud Selig and the records of Marlins finances since 2007 be delivered by Jan. 6.

    http://2thinkgood.com/

    http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/12/3/2607409/miami-marlins-ballpark-sec-investigation

    All interesting reading. Maybe somebody seriously changed the playing field last week………. maybe someone wanted AP to stay in STL………and recognized what was going on……..Flordia knew what it was going to try……………. maybe BD did know how interested he could become……one of the articles suggested this might be about more than one stadium deal………. it ain’t about baseball…………….

  22. Bw52 says:

    Marlins just got Buerhle. 4 years 58 million.

  23. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Its clear that it was a prepared market …………. it seems apparent that the Cardinals were to be the recipient of said preparations ….. It appears that the Marlins have issues with Selig ……….. the banana peels last week for Lozano ……… and then the sudden announcement of the Florida investigation …………..shows there was quite a bit of animosity surrounding Florida’s game plan………… the Dodgers also contesting the Commissioner with a Bankruptcy appeal….(against the rules) ……sure as hell wasn’t the Wilpon’s that pushed the SEC button…………to discourage the Reyes contract…..sure wasn’t BD…..he’s hip deep……….. I wonder???????? All thats happened is AP now has had Tony removed and another clean cut Christian in his place……….. there will be no jogging……… bet Holiday and Berkman are just ecstatic………….. Craig too……….. Boras has to be………. it would appear that Florida simply changed the Price…………….. and they get????? talking about a job with the organization afterward was just Lozano leading the dialog………. Ozzie Guillen ….. saying it was Handley’s team………….. and that AP would bat 4th sure helped………… the yearly salary was a victory for BD…………the length could be seen as a special situation……..the deferred money….a windfall…..

    in truth………..the conservative season ticket holders will be happy……….the anti AP factions will be adding the heat to the slugger himself………… Holiday will likely agree to a trade eventually….. AP and Molina will rest more often………..thats a relief……Dotel seemed to be waiting for an announcement….. ……………. with Buerle getting well…..and CJ looking 60/4…………. Market is going to be bone dry………….. thats BONE DRY…….. other than that………this will be a great Christmas for me …………. I hope Brian wants to hear about these things…………on his blog

    • CariocaCardinal says:

      The picture is becoming clearer after all of this time. Westie’s conspiracy theories provide cover for the inaccuracies in his predictions. If he didn’t get it right (and can’t find a way to weasle out of it) it is Bud’s fault.

  24. JumboShrimp says:

    There is nothing wrong with the Cards giving Albert 9 or 10 or 11 years. Pujols could wind up with the all time MLB HR record before he retires, if he avoids injuries.
    It would be cool if he stayed with one team for more than 20 years, too.
    Baseball salaries are influenced by more than just current production, but also lifetime achievements. Its one aspect to how the salary system works.
    The Cards do not want to give Albert way more years and money than they have to, but if the team does not commit serious moola, he would be obliged to move elsewhere. There are no bargains to be had in signing a future Hall of Famer for his later years. For Bill DeWitt, its just the price of running this franchise.

  25. T8Ball says:

    The Cards have signed Ryan Franklin… as a scout.

    “Former closer Ryan Franklin has been hired by the Cardinals as a scout. Franklin, who visited the front office in Dallas this week, will help evaluate players in Oklahoma and perhaps elsewhere as he starts a career within baseball after retirement from baseball.”

    Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/winter-meetings-marlins-out-on-pujols-focused-on-pitching/article_b8b10c1e-20ea-11e1-940f-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1fuKGujRM

  26. blingboy says:

    Albert still has 40 minutes to accept arb. So does Edwin.

    • crdswmn says:

      I’m anxious to hear whether the Brewers get stuck with money bags KRod as a setup man for a year.

      • Brian Walton says:

        Incredibly risky decision to offer him.

      • crdswmn says:

        He accepted. Bwahahahaha. :)

        • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

          good one…………… how does that go……. Bwahahahahahah…………… nice

          • blingboy says:

            I’m furiously paging through my Black’s Law Dictionary . . . . . .

            • crdswmn says:

              It ain’t there. It’s ebonic German for Schadenfreude. :)

            • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

              @Jon_Heyman Jon Heyman
              #angels reportedly trying for pujols, and they do have big tv $ coming. But pujols associate guesses itd take “$40M more” to leave stl

              this is crapola…………………….. they won’t do that………. wish they would…………

              • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

                Someone is saying this because the the Angels are at 9/230/240 and Lozano wants to tow truck Mo another 10 large………………who is the 3rd team?

                • T8Ball says:

                  Silent Texas, or Lozano’s ploy. Doesn’t matter, Lozano got his puppet team to offer the money he wants. Now the Years (10) and the Money (230-240) are established.

                  btw, “wish they would”….you really don’t like Albert, eh?

                  • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

                    T…………..AP hasn’t faced reality in a long time…… Without Tony, how long will his funks last?????
                    Think that over…………..in truth, BD has him right where I thought he wanted him………… he could just shut it down…………… 40 million over is vulgar………it suggests that this is all a show just to extort from
                    BD……………… I would love to see Albert try to play a season in the real world……..I think he goes down………………… If Bill sipped at 9…………he’s already backing off……….the 40 comment was to keep him from pulling out…………

                    • T8Ball says:

                      Of course it’s a “show to extort”. Lozano is a really good puppet master. Got the Marlins to play along (though, I don’t think they knew they were being played), and then it was up to the Cubs or Angels. I said earlier today that all Lozano needed was some team to step up to establish the $ amount.

                      I can’t say I agree with you on the Albert and reality. But I can see what you mean.

                    • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

                      Lozano is Toying with CJ Wilson…………holding him up so that the angles stay in the Pujols picture………… leverage………..210 suggest to me that the Cardinals are still just over 200……… at 9 years

                    • RCWarrior says:

                      Bill is gonna end up paying Albert…………its just gonna cost a little bit more than the original offer. :)

  27. blingboy says:

    The Angels can offer something the Cards can’t match, the potential to go after those career records in the later years without the rigors of playing the field.

    One never knows, but if Albert has thought about that, and surely he has, it could be a significant point.

  28. crdswmn says:

    Wow. Jeff Luhnow got the Astros GM job.

    • T8Ball says:

      TLR will be his first managerial hire. ;)

    • blingboy says:

      Down-size boy gets massive up-size. Hopefully the system is in place and will roll along.
      Lucky break for Wallace.

    • RCWarrior says:

      Awesome for Jeff. He will do well in that position.

      • CariocaCardinal says:

        Colby to the Stro’s in exchange for ……….

        I think Luhnow will get a reputation quickly for being the most radical and non-traditional GM out there. Don’t know if he will be successful or not but I doubt he will be traditional by any means.

        • Brian Walton says:

          Not saying I disagree, but am curious as to an example or two of what you think he might do that would be considered non-traditional. Coming in, he certainly did not have a traditional background, but spent the last eight years getting that.

        • RCWarrior says:

          Well, I am a Jeff Luhnow fan and have been for a long time. I’ve spoken to Jeff many times and believe without the obstacle that was Tony LaRussa he would have done even greater things in St. Louis. Jeff liked Colby and fought for him behind closed doors but the harder he fought the harder Tony pushed back against him.

          The two places Colby wanted to go was either Tampa or Toronto and Mo made that happen with Jeff’s help with AA. I’ll forever be in debt to Jeff for doing that.

          Colby is where he wanted to be so no…..I don’t forsee any Astros deal any time soon involving Colby. :)

  29. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    “I know Matt Holliday came to St. Louis and stayed in St. Louis because Albert was there,” Boras said. “I know my other client, Kyle Lohse, a big part of the reason he wanted to win and get a ring and a reason we sent him there was because Albert Pujols was there. Those are two great examples of my clients I know who were attracted and stayed in St. Louis because of an iconic player like him.”

    Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/winter-meetings-boras-calls-pujols-market-unique/article_b8b10c1e-20ea-11e1-940f-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1fvMk40fQ

    Grab a shovel…………

    • crdswmn says:

      It appears you were wrong RC.

      • RCWarrior says:

        All this means to me is that Albert wanted to be in a place where the largest number of fans would be of latin descent. It appears either Miami or LA was what he wanted. In other words BD had no chance to match an offer if this is truely what has happened today.

        • crdswmn says:

          I wouldn’t have wanted BD to match that offer. The #angels are incredibly stupid.

          • RCWarrior says:

            The Angels will make that money 10 times over in the next 6 years. LA is just about 80% Latino so they will love them some Albert. Albert will break all the records in baseball as an Angel which will be more money for them.

            On top of all that Albert will have his mug on every billboard in California so he will be raking in the big oney as well……on top of the already, huge contract.

            Its great day for Albert to be sure. Hey, the St. Louis fans can just know that GOD has led Albert to the promised land and if GOD leads you a certain way that way must be right. Right?

            Just think of all the new jerseys that everybody has to buy in St. Louis next year…..a financial windfall for BD.

            I actually just love it. :)

      • RCWarrior says:

        And the odds of the Cardinals winning the World Series next year just went in the shitter. :)

  30. Kansasbirdman says:

    I want for Christmas a SS (I’ll take furcal) and a SP 20 potential 20 game winner. Gio? CJ?

  31. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    You all may be overlooking the real issue here ……………….. which is now starting to show itself …………………………………

  32. Kansasbirdman says:

    It had to be about getting the biggest contract bc dollarswise he would have made more $ in st louis bc of cost of living difference

    • RCWarrior says:

      I don’t know Kansas…….How huge will Albert be in LA as far as being marketable? He’ll make up the difference in endorsements in LA…….easily imo. And one things for sure….St. Louis just doesn’t seem to be THE place people are dying to move to. After having been to St. Louis for a few years I could list the big league towns I’ve been to and St. Louis is ranked somewhere in the 100′s….and there is only 30 ML teams. :)

      • crdswmn says:

        RC, perhaps this is not the best time for this. I understand you are not a Cardinal fan, but the rest of us are and I think we need some time digest all of this. I am a sensible person and I do not view things through rose colored glasses, but even so, emotions are raw and there needs to be time for reflection. Some things are just not helpful.

        Peace. :)

        • RCWarrior says:

          I understand Crdswmn. But there is no reason to be upset because Albert received 30 million dollars more from someone else. The cardinals made him a huge offer but another club really went above and beyond to beat it. PRobably smart for the Cardinals but its hard to blame Albert for taking the extra 30 million.

          The one thing I have learned is business is business. This was good business for Albert.

          And I doubt you believe the Cardinals should have given Albert 250 million buckos? :)

          • crdswmn says:

            I am not upset really. I would be lying if I said I wasn’t a little disappointed and a little sad, but frankly Albert was never close to my favorite player on the Cardinals. I didn’t dislike him, he just never resonated that much with me. There are a lot of people who think Albert was deceptive and hypocritical with all of his talk about wanting to stay in St. L. but I never put Albert on a pedestal like many others did. I didn’t see him as any better of a person than anyone else. He did what I expected him to do, no more, no less.

            As time passes, and if greater insight is gained as to what occurred, I am sure there will be much more to talk about. Right now I am just letting it all sink in. I will be interested to see what, if any, moves are made by the Cardinals now.

      • Kansasbirdman says:

        Hey, my mom’s side of the family all lives there, world’s largest free zoo, grants farm, arch,science museum, toasted ravioli, the hill…
        ahhhhh
        I guess she did move to kansas, maybe you have something there.

        Rich baseball history in San Louis mang, but can we keep it going?

        • RCWarrior says:

          The baseball in St. Louis was superior to most teams prior to Albert and will be after Albert. The team and the tradition will be as it always has been and that is top of the line.

  33. Kansasbirdman says:

    BB u gonna get a new avatar? I say it is even more appropo and ironic now that he has left in chase of the mighty $

    • blingboy says:

      Good of you to think of that Kansas. I’ll have to mull it over. Right now, though, my tinfoil hat is all knocked askew. It will all have to sink in for a few days. crdswmn is lucky she has stuff that will keep her occupied for a few days.

      Next season is really going to be something. The dawn of a new era in Cards history. We’re short on icons right now, so that means opportunity. It’s wide open.

  34. crdswmn says:

    Anyway, it will be interesting to see what details (and reactions) come out in the next few days. Hope we get a clearer picture of what went down.

    • RCWarrior says:

      It appears from my seat that the Cardinals made a pretty good offer to Albert and that means most of the blow back will be against Albert. Albert will say all of the right things, of course, and that may ease some cardinals fans pain but most will put this on Albert wanting more money………which is what it is. But how can you blame him? Its just business.

    • T8Ball says:

      I’m very interested to see when things broke down for the Cards.

      Appearances are that this happened fast, but appearances can be deceiving.

      Was the sticking point the Years and Non-deferred money?

  35. crdswmn says:

    Are you going to do a post about Albert Brian? I would welcome a rational discussion about it, because I am certain I am not going to find it anywhere else right now. :) Twitter is pretty bad right now and I know the PD won’t be any better.

    • T8Ball says:

      Twitter, PD? Heck my own household is upset :) I have navigate that.

      Personally, I’m just trying to wrap my head around the whole thing. What helps is the 10 years thing.

      What hurts for me, is losing Luhnow.

      What I can’t wrap my head around is this : How reactionary is BD2, Mo and Company going to be?
      Do they need to be? If so, how much? Will it be fair to who they get, knowing that that person(s) will be Albert’s replacement.

      Plus, a whole slew of other emotions.

      I’m still absorbing this all.

      • Nutlaw says:

        I’m with you, T8Ball. Losing Luhnow is more unfortunate.

        I’m not so sorry that the Cardinals won’t be dragging around Pujols for ten years. The guy can barely run as is.

        I do wish that Craig were healthy, however.

    • T8Ball says:

      Oh one other thing. Does Yadi get extended now that his best bud is gone? Or does he accept an extension?

    • Brian Walton says:

      Yes, I will be doing a radio spot on KXnO at 4:15 CT and will post that audio. I will also post my thoughts here, though I wish I could learn the specifics of the offers first.

      With Luhnow, Rule 5 and Albert, plus the contests here, this has been a very busy day…

      • crdswmn says:

        I saw your response to Bob Nightengale’s tweet. I too am wondering the same thing. Do we know the truth about the offers from the various teams or is all of of this Lozano spin? It would be nice to have all the specifics so we can make an accurate judgment about what went down. I wonder if we will ever know the full truth.

  36. T8Ball says:

    Well, at least there is wiggle room financially to move Lohse and Westbrook if they choose to do so. I’d say the next 6-8 weeks should be interesting to see how the roster shapes up.

    Easy thing to do would be to bring in another Berkman/Punto type guy and just go out and have fun on the field for 162 games. Potential is still there with the lineup and depth.

    Get well soon, Allen Craig, get well soon.

  37. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    I’m a little disappointed in the group………who knew what was going to happen……… I will throw Brian a bone………because he fits here just fine……………………. the statement from the AP camp that it would take a bid of 30/40 million over to get AP away from ST Louis………wasn’t aimed an Anaheim ……… The 250+ incentive had already be proffered………… it was aimed at BD to at least get up in range..225/230……….. Cardinals only adjustment through all of this was back 9/198….with an option year added………….. This was flawless negotiating by BD………..professional job by Angels to avoid the new record………………..at 270+ ……….which they would have done….. 10th year and 230 wins the contest for ST. Louis……….. the timing allowed Lozano to position Wilson……good work there…..

    • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

      One other issue that is “public” knowledge……… the dismissal of Miami from the contest had a purpose………….even though their offer had become superior to the Cardinals……… this also effected their CJ bid which was superior to the Angel’s………….. at that point the package deal was to Anaheim was set…………. moving the Marlin out was to give BD the benefit of any doubts…..likely because he was talking s–t about a Wilson package himself………… there was allot of bad blood here…….and some more bad news coming I’m afraid…………

  38. blingboy says:

    I was over at my son’s house giving him a hand with his Albert related memorabilia. It filled up four boxes. Bobbleheads to scorecards to jackets and jerseys. Restaurant menu, couple of dozen baseballs, mostly batting practice homers he caught. Hundreds of photos from the railing or behind the screen. Magazine covers, ticket stubs for big games Albert had, you name it. Its all on a shelf in the garage now.

    Young people are resilient. Him and his wife are arguing about who their favorite player is going to be now. They’re thinking about driving down to Jupiter during ST to try to figure it out. The sulking didn’t even last as long as it took to pack up the stuff.

    I hear they have guards around his statue outside his restaurant. I doubt the pidgeons would even want to crap on it anymore.

    • crdswmn says:

      Sounds like your son and his wife are handling it as well as any Cardinal fan should. Not keeping the stuff in sight to remind you of your disappointment, but also looking forward to what a future without Albert Pujols could bring is I think a healthy way to go about it.

      I am still mulling over my thoughts and feelings about it. I am in the process of writing a blog post about it, but it may take me a while to get all that stuff going on in my head in order. I am going to be out for a few hours tonight, and then I am traveling out of town tomorrow for the closing on my mother’s house, so I don’t know when I will get the post up. Depends on how well my thought processes play out in the next 8 hours or so. For the time being I am just hanging out on the net taking in how other Cardinals fans are faring. It’s a mixed bag to say the least. Looking forward to some cutting edge discussion of the situation in the next few days. ;)

  39. Bw52 says:

    Somewhat diaaappointed.Somewhat glad Cards didn`t go a 9 or 10 year deal.Thanks for the memories Albert.Good luck and Cards are going to kick Angels ass in the World Series in 2012.

  40. LarryBird says:

    I am totally shocked ! I thought he was different but I was wrong. He is greedy and it is all about the money to him. The Cardinals are actually better off without him because of the amount they were going to pay him but I wanted him to stay. I hope he fails miserably.

    • blingboy says:

      Well said LB. It doesn’t seem to be politically correct to hope he fails. Everybody makes sure to say how they wish him well. Personally, I hope he gets bood off the field.

      • Bw52 says:

        BB- thats kind of silly.Albert gave Cards fans many great memories.Cards owner felt he had a linmit he would reach and decided not stick with it.Albert obviosly was offered more elsewhere.Albert just did what most people would do.I sure as hell don`t begrudge him that.I do wish him well except when he ever faces the Cards.

        • blingboy says:

          I don’t argue with Albert’s right to do what he wants, and what he thinks best for him and his family. I don’t have a problem with the Cards ownership’s offer either.

  41. blingboy says:

    Wonder if the Angels will get any surprises when Albert gets his physical.

  42. Kansasbirdman says:

    Think Mo will take a stab at Prince? Wonder how much he will get? 7 yrs 22 per?

  43. RCWarrior says:

    I just hear it all the time how players will take less money to play for the Cardinals because cardinals fans are the best fans in baseball………….I always chuckle when I hear that. Todays game is about making money and if you’re not willing to pay the going rate for players then you lose them. They are not gonna take way less money because the fans are great.

    Albert is a superstar and he actually made less money than was the going rate for a player of his caliber these last 10 years so I guess he expected the Cardinals to pay him what he was worth this time around. In other words the first 10 year contract made Albert expect to be paid on the level with his superstardom this time around.

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