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What is the biggest problem with the 2011 Cardinals?

On July 26, the St. Louis Cardinals held a half-game lead in the National League Central race. Since then, the Cards have basically played .500 ball (11-10 after Wednesday night’s win) as they have for the entire season since its first month.

Meanwhile, Milwaukee has opened up a seven-game lead on St. Louis. A contributor was the Brewers winning head-to-head series over the Cardinals both home and away but Milwaukee has been playing very well against all competition. In the Wild Card race, the Cards are third, one game behind San Francisco and six games back of Atlanta.

With 38 games remaining in the 2011 regular season, the sizes of the deficits have caused many to begin figuring. Numbers are being thrown around to indicate how poorly the front-runners must play the rest of the way and how well St. Louis needs to perform to reach the lead in either race.

The targets are not unattainable, yet the size of the mountain seemingly grows each day. The recent play of all involved does not signal a change in the current trends – which are negative from the Cardinals’ perspective.

I had originally included the following poll in yesterday’s post about lack of support for Chris Carpenter, but decided to pull it out and give it its own day in the sun.

What do you consider to have been the biggest single factor that has kept the 2011 Cardinals from winning more games?

What is the biggest problem with the 2011 Cardinals?

View Results

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159 Responses to “What is the biggest problem with the 2011 Cardinals?”

  1. crdswmn says:

    “All of the above” was the winner in my poll. I guess “Can’t pick out one culprit” is your equivalent option.

    Pitching was the next highest, but I didn’t separate starting from relief.

    And no BW52, I didn’t vote for the manager. ;)

    • Bw52 says:

      Crdswmn-I figured you voted 13 times. Just kidding.I voted the rotation because not enough deep starts.Not always the pitchers fault (defense,mantal mistakes,inconsistent strike zone etc:).Still way too many games where the offense staked Cards to the lead and the pitchers immediately gave the runs right back.

  2. DizzyDean17 says:

    I voted for defense as being the biggest problem. Mine was the 24th vote cast and I was the first to pick this flaw. That is mind-boggling to me. It should be so obvious to anybody that has watched this team play this year that a competent defensive middle infield would have made our pitch to contact guys much better than they’ve been.

  3. friendmouse says:

    Yeah, well, I voted “Lack of timely hitting.” But, truth be known, that is a bit of a cop-out, because literally one could ALWAYS say, “Yeah, but if our pitcher’d hit a couple more grand slams we coulda won that game!” Yet, it’s true. However, as I opined yesterday, it just seems to me that “everybody else” gets critical hits at critical times…with walk-offs galore. But not us…as much…it seems.

    • Memphis25 says:

      If anything I would say we have had too much timely hitting.

      RISP w/ 2 Outs:
      .274/.377/.404/.780, Cards in 2011
      .227/.334/.349/.683, NL Average 2011
      1st/1st/3rd/2nd, MLB Ranking

      RISP Overall:
      .291/.375/.455/.830, Cards in 2011
      .251/.339/.383/.722, NL Average 2011
      1st/1st/1st/1st/, MLB Ranking

      7th inning or later
      .263/.337/.403/.740, Cards in 2011
      .246/.321/.371/.692, NL Average 2011
      3rd/2nd/4th/3rd/, MLB Ranking

      Here are the Brewers ranks for those 3.
      7th/15th/5th/7th in RISP w/ 2 Outs:
      9th/13th/6th/10th in RISP
      14th/14th/15th/14th in 7th inning or later

      • friendmouse says:

        Thanks, Memphis, and of course you’re right. I was allowing my “built-in Birds bias” influence my opinions. Facts are what they are, and those you produced do seem to speak volumes concerning our “clutch-ness.” Still…it seems what it seems.

        And Brian, I’d definitely have chosen “injuries” as the biggest factor / problem, were that a choice. Jumbo nailed it, except that Berkman HAS dealt with injuries, too. Remember his wrist from the diving catch? I think he also missed a day or two early on with some “back” issues. With that said, though, I, too, would have expected less playing time by Berkman this year from what he’s produced. He’s truly been amazing!

        Some may recollect that Mike Shannon, before the season started, said that “injuries” (or lack thereof) were the key to our success (or lack thereof) this season. He said that if we could stay healthy, they we could win it all…as we’ve got the players on this team to do it.

  4. Kansasbirdman says:

    I picked rotation as they have been pretty inconsistent. Even Carp. Although DD17 has a point about defense, we have given up a lot of homers too (although way way too many in the pen).

  5. crdswmn says:

    Wow. Managing is winning the poll. I wasn’t one of them I swear. I voted the “Can’t pick one culprit” option.

  6. JumboShrimp says:

    One unavailable choice was injuries. We lost the top pitcher, Wainwright, a huge impact. Craig has lost more than 2 months. Even Albert went on the DL. Freese was gone for a while. Schumaker was out a couple of months. Holiday had an appendicitis, plus went on the DL for a muscle pull. The brilliant rookie Sanchez went down. Punto has missed most of the season. Laird lost time. Now Lance Lynn is out of action.

    The guy who I suspected would be vulnerable, Berkman, has avoided injury. Go figure.

    Having to choose a weakness, I voted bullpen. Franklin declined and tipped into uselessness. Miller too. I had early hopes for Bautista, but he did not come through. Tallet was a farfetched hope and he duly was lousy. Mo has lately done a good job to rebuild the pen with Rzepcynski, Dotel, McClellan, Lynn, Rhodes. Salas has given the Cards more than they could have ever expected. Motte too.

    One big decision was making a change at SS, after Ryan’s poor hitting 2010. Theriot has been around and is well known as to his abilities. It seemed like Mo and Tony wanted to make some change somewhere, so chose SS. They probably wanted somebody who could hit leadoff. Theriot fulfilled this function during the first few months and helped get the offense going, after it was dead in late 2010. Furcal is welcome now.

    The Cards upped their spend a lot in 2011, wanting to win the division. They may have had doubts about Wainwright’s health, so popped for Westbrook at $8.5MM. Westbrook has probably not given them as much as they hoped he could.

    • Bw52 says:

      Jumbo-IMHO tall the starting pitchers have been inconsistent as hell this year.Garcia getting worse and Father time catching up to Carp.Westbrook,Lohse and Jackson looks like a guy who really doesn`t know how to pitch with a plan.
      More of a thrower instead of a pitcher.

    • Nutlaw says:

      Defense would have been a close second, but I also went with the relievers. Given that they had to get rid of nearly their entire Opening Day bullpen, that stood out.

      Losing Wainwright for the entire year was probably the largest single incident that has hurt their chances, I should think.

  7. blingboy says:

    I voted for timely hitting. My thinking was, the whole thing is built around Albert, and he was leading the majors in GIPD by a wide margin all year. That killed a lot of rallies. He’s finally been caught up to by Adrian Gonzales who has 60 more PAs.

    As to the pen and defense, those cost us games, but some of that was due to hardheadedness by TLR in the people he chose to play. And also somewhat a front office debacle in going with Franky again with no plan B other than hope a young guy with no experience could take over. The front office blunder in thinking everyone was wrong about Theriot playing SS is offset by the Berkman signing, without which we’d be burried.

    I also agree that injuries were a main factor as is total lack of a running game and outrageous beer prices.

  8. blingboy says:

    We have two of the top OBP guys in baseball, both over .400, and both hit behind Albert everyday. That doesn’t help, but hey, Tony knows what he’s doing.

    • friendmouse says:

      Sarcasm suits you, double-b…I like it. I find myself wondering if TLR often “does what he does” just to enhance his enigmaticism. You could say he marches to the beat of a different drummer, but I’d suggest a more revealing descriptive is that he sashays to the rhythm of a unique pan flautist! Odd, he is. He has had a degree of success in his chosen profession, so he could be on to something. But we’d better win it all this year, or else!

      • blingboy says:

        It can’t be denied that recently his teams have lacked the ability to play their best at crunch time. As soon as the OK corral comes into sight they ride off into the sunset. That says all there is to say about Tony. His teams quit, or at least fade. I expect some woefull and flat performances from here on out.

    • Brian Walton says:

      It isn’t just at St. Louis. At Memphis, Matt Carpenter is fifth in the Pacific Coast League in on-base percentage but 77th in runs scored. He hits fifth in the lineup.

  9. blingboy says:

    I see where the Cards ‘suspended’ Shelby Miller for an alcohol related altercation which violated organization policy. A repeat occurance supposedly. 20 year old millionairs will do that I guess. Hope he doesn’t pass out at a stop light.

  10. Memphis25 says:

    I voted for Front Office, Its on Mo for either his own mistakes or not being able to tell TLR no.

    The 3 things most people worried about heading in to the year (SS/#5 SP/BP] all turned into problems so we spent our “Dry Powder” to fix something that should have been done over winter and in ST and sacrificed Colby for pennies on the dollar and a nice power bat in Alex Castellanos who is blistering the ball since the trade to do it.

  11. easy says:

    The poll results are pretty interesting in that every item was picked except base running. I doubt that any of us think they’ve run the bases well. It’s just that it’s not the main problem.
    Only two voters think that the competition is just better. That means that almost all of us think we again have an undeachieving baseball team. Even the pitching coach says that his prodigies are underachieving.
    This makes at least two years in a row when the feeling is that the Cards should be better than they are. “Chemistry” was considered an issue last year and some personnel decisions were based on fixing it. Although noone’s admitted it chemistry may have been the impetus for this year’s big trade also. Bottom line is that no personnel changes have fixed what we identify as an underachieving team. Last year we streaked during garbage time in September and I wouldn’t be surprised if we do it again once we’re surely out of the race. I get the feeling some times that this team is afraid of making the post season knowing that it’ll be an unpleasant experience. Gotta lay most of this on TLR’s doorstep.

  12. friendmouse says:

    Brian, not surprisingly, I have not seen any recent posts from RCWarrior on here. Likely he has “graduated” to another blogisphere, but, if so, do you know his whereabouts? Color me curious.

    • Brian Walton says:

      I have no idea.

      Agree that “injuries” as an option was an omission.

    • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

      Wild guess might suggest that his new BHSC rep. made some good suggestions on the best way to realize the shared goals of Father and Son FM………… Colby’s secret hitting coach also seems satisfied with some compromises…………………….. Watched the game in Oakland last night. He is loading up for the Arbitration negotiation……….. from a number of directions.

      • friendmouse says:

        Yeah, I think you’re right, WC. Some people (including yours truly) take a bit longer to “catch on” to the concept of proper comportment. I just received a “teaching lesson” from the missus on how I’m failing in certain aspects of life. Struggles abound, but I hope, for Colby’s sake, valuable lessons have been learned. Same goes for TLR…I hope he’s learning from all this, and he applies it appropriately. It can’t be too late to learn and apply quite yet, can it?! For any of us!

  13. Brian Walton says:

    Friday lineup vs. Cubs:

    1. Rafael Furcal (S) SS
    2. Allen Craig (R) CF
    3. Albert Pujols (R) 1B
    4. Matt Holliday (R) LF
    5. Lance Berkman (S) RF
    6. David Freese (R) 3B
    7. Yadier Molina (R) C
    8. Ryan Theriot (R) 2B
    9. Jaime Garcia (L) P

    • friendmouse says:

      I can’t lie…I’m not clickin’ my heels for joy with this line-up. I’m just about (I know…I’m slow) to come to the conclusion that TLR is much like a woman, in that 1). They’re crazy, and 2). There is no figuring them out. And if those of us who are not women nor TLR, we are even crazier than they are if for one moment we think we CAN figure them out!
      Where is the logic (okay…I should know better than to think that logic is TLR’s guiding principle) here? I thought, in doing “match-ups” and you’re going against a RHP, then you play your lefties (eg.- Schumaker and J-Jay). But no…we’re starting Theriot and Craig. Granted, I have not done exhaustive research and looked at individual splits with each player against pitcher Wells. So, maybe therein lies the “logical” explanation. So, we have two SH and one lefty in Garcia swingin’ the lumber tonight. I hope it’s enough. Who knows…maybe we’ll score a season-high number of runs tonight. Just win, fellers!

      • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

        Cubs have to play with Soriano in left, and look what its cost them. Tony’s sole purpose in playing Craig in center is to create opportunities for Pujols. He is not moving Albert to forth. He is not hitting Holiday or Berkman second. The simple reason. Their productivity would lessen Albert’s chances for Rbi’s, especially in the BD/AP negotiating posture, where productivity comparisons loom large. This is a flagrant interpretation of baseball tactics, hopelessly slanted toward a single end. That being said. Go Alan Craig. Go Cardinals.

        The likely out come of this is exposing Craig’s weakness at the plate. One game against stupid pitching, a hero does not make. I would be startled if he got 2 hits. That beings said, I would be stunned if there weren’t any defensive consequences.

        • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

          Aside from the walk by Berkman in which he scored……….all runs come from the unregulated bottom of the lineup……………………. if anyone thinks wasting Matt Holiday in a dead zone for him………. makes any other sense than keeping the status quo………you would be wrong…….. Kmac just gave it up so the bogey man is on his way……….

  14. Kansasbirdman says:

    Cubs have sacked GM Hendry. I recall tthe speculation that Hendry’s relationship/familiarity with pujols was going to lead to a possible signing in the offseason. Could this perchance mean that other teams are wary that AP will in fact leave st louis (bc as the theory goes, having him as GM would have given them some advantage in getting AP)? I know there are other explanations, maybe tey wouldn’t have had the $ anyway, but worth a discussion no?

    • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

      They would be in line for this KB……….Jocetty/TLR/AP………… the situation in Cincinnati is more suggestive of this than anything…………… crazy thought huh…………

      • friendmouse says:

        I’ll agree with you there…it’s a crazy thought…and it might cause a war of some sorts.

        I’m still puzzling about Craig in CF. There must be something else factoring in here. Your “theories” aside, WC, perhaps AC will stun us with his prowess out there, but why not use either Skip or J-Jay?

        I’ll make this pledge: if AC does get 2 or more hits AND plays solid in CF, if not spectacular, then I will give TLR kudos and praises in the very near future, citing his brilliant decision to put Craig in CF and bat 2nd. I think that is more than generous and fair.

        HOWEVER, if AC goes hitless and / or muffs ANYTHING in the OF tonight, then I reserve the right to LAMBAST TLR. And it will not be “second guessing,” because it’s “first guessing.” And not Monday morning quarterbacking, but Sunday morning quarterbacking. I honestly do hope TLR is quite right on this one.

        • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

          Craig didn’t really give much away……..this game…… miss played a ball , made a catch. His offense portents do not merit the defensive liability…………….. Jay saw a chance to make a play at the plate on a line drive……….wrong universe………nice thought……..

      • blingboy says:

        I am totally sure uncle Walt wouldn’t touch TLR with a ten foot pole.

        • Brian Walton says:

          All indications from what I saw and heard was that the two worked extremely closely and well together.

          Having said that, I can’t imagine Jocketty would be motivated to leave Cincy and TLR saw what Chicago did to his pal Sweet Lou. If TLR goes back to Chi-town, the Sox seem more likely. To make room for Albert, they’d have to clear out either Konerko and/or Dunn. Not impossible.

    • Nutlaw says:

      Hendry paid a lot of money for some very bad teams. It was overdue.

    • blingboy says:

      I can’t understand how Hendry kept his job as long as he did.

  15. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Tony just got out coached again………. Garcia is on the ropes…….and Cubs coach keeps him in the game by pinch hitting his lefty…………… liking the match up……….. Mott saves his butt………….he takes the bat out of a flailing AP hands and looses the base runner……… don’t you love this……

  16. friendmouse says:

    If we lose this game, there is simply no good excuse. Frustration is taking hold.

  17. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Everything about KMac appearance………..body language and all…….said he was finished……..but the fact that Tony had his numbers against lefty’s as a defense……. he remained in the game………….. makes you kind of wonder…………

  18. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    And now begins the bloodbath…………….. It was a good season though……. suspenseful……….all the issues and the controversy will be apparent to those that have studied here………there is little else to say I’m afraid …………. you guys have a solid core of posters here. Try to enjoy each others peculiarities…. ……….

    • friendmouse says:

      I think you could be right about the bath…but who’s the first one into the tub?

      There definitely needs to be some butt kickin’, but where do you start? There’s plenty of room to go around when looking for goats, but the buck should stop with TLR…he simply is not getting the players to perform as they should. I always hear it’s on the players, and it mostly is. But why is it that so often when a team has a stable full of good players, yet underperform, then the manager, or head coach, gets the axe. I KNOW our FO won’t axe TLR, so maybe he does the noble thing and quits. Like Riggleman and the Marlin’s Rodriguez. Not Tony. No way. So, we just sit back and enjoy, huh. Nice start to the weekend. I’m getting really close to disgustion. And that’s not a place where one wants to go. Cubs could sweep.

      • crdswmn says:

        The mental aspect of this game is huge. You can have the most talent in the world but still play poorly if there are mental blocks in your way. Sometimes the mental blocks are of the player’s own making. But sometimes they are caused by others. You could be the best employee in your office, but if your work environment is hostile, it is going to affect your performance. Those who always want to blame the players and give no responsibility to the manager don’t seem to get that this could be a possible explanation. Many a former player has said that TLR is very difficult to play for. No one would ever nominate him for the Congeniality Award. What goes on in that clubhouse is unknown to most of us. When there is a history of these late season swoons one cannot dismiss the possibility that TLR’s management style is a factor in why these kinds of losses occur.

        Yes there was poor play out there today, but TLR again made poor decisions in this game, especially his bullpen decisions. He continues to make the same bad decisions over and over again. Taking out pitchers who are doing well because of “matchups” and then paying for it. Overusing certain pitchers like Dotel and Rhodes whose skills are limited, and under using pitchers like Rzepczynski. Pinch hitting Patterson who couldn’t hit the Titanic. Playing Theriot at all when Descalso is a much better defender.

        It well known that Bill DeWitt is a TLR fan. It is unlikely we will see TLR’s back until he chooses to leave. Thems the facts that we must all live with.

        • blingboy says:

          Tony’s decisions, Theriot, Patterson, etc., may all have played a part. But none of it matters when Pujols, Holliday, Berkman go Ofer. As an added bonus, the top of the order sucked too.

          • crdswmn says:

            Well whether they mattered or not is debatable. My larger point had to do with more than just this game. The fact is this team has a history of tanking in the latter half of the season and to suggest that the manager has no responsibility in that is just ludicrous.

        • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

          CRD………………them ain’t the facts………………. the bloodbath is caused when the sacrificial goat meets the blade…………….. thats Tony………….. as talked about here in February……… you all seem to be missing the point……………….. Tony will fight at all costs, even more blatantly than the last month, to show his viability……..at handling AP………………..the team will abandon him completely…….. he may not finish the year……….if he has a chance/opportunity to scapegoat the press/and or BD, he will walk……………BD isn’t that careless with a knife I would hazard a guess, so that is unlikely….but possible…………

          These are the facts………….
          1) Craig batting 2nd………. because Patterson and Jay suck……..is excusable…………starting in center field and batting 2nd………says this……….. if he is that substantial, hit him 4th or 5th……..move Holiday out of his dead zone……….Holiday only hits when AP chokes…….he has fell beneath the pitching stratagems of all the teams we’re playing……… hit him second….play to win…hit Berkman second…… Tony is grooming for AP success…………….these guys would easily profit by the move….
          2) Jay has issues………whether Tony meant to or not………his vulnerabilities were just exposed……..thats going to cost BD later on……..he is mental……the fidgeting is real……..
          3) Clearly Lance Berkman is being held down……..and to a degree for a reason………he went hog wild for two weeks trying to front AP in the Hr race as AP was making his rush…add rbi’s to that……he didn’t do much during his “wilding”……. but clearly even a switch with Holiday would have been beneficial to both………… but Tony isn’t managing for team success at this point……….he is trying to get his boy back in the ring…..which means leading the team in those categorizes come negotiation time…………..Berkman was almost passed over for the pinch hit Wednesday……….but he popped out of the dugout and dutifully collect the rbi with a polite swinging single……….. today, he takes a walk and a few ground balls………. when the guy isn’t hitting OPO Hr’s……..he is trying to pull everything….very obvious sign………….he knows the career game he’s playing………….

          4) Berkman is watching Houston……..new ownership brings him back there as a team leader…….funny that the Commissioner is holding that sale up……for some reason…… any offer to Lance from here will come in September………no later……..

          5) Come November………. Tony (if he lasts) will be allowed to posture as a AP negation chip/fan……. Cardinals will put up the low number and wait………. all other teams will be free to negotiate with both AP and Tony at that point……..both free agents………. LA is in play…….Washington is in play…….and now Chicago is in play……….. all in need of revenue enhancements ……… thats what Tony sees………….. Lozano…….not so much………. 6 weeks of politicking…….is that something you think BD allows……….. in a meaningless playoff run…………. Tony is/has started that game weeks ago……..the variable…….Brewers make the kill and won’t stop feeding……….. I ask you to consider this……… Tony attempts a first pitch hit and run with AP………who tries to do a little more with that swing than move the runner……he was pissed……..Tony was calling him a choke by doing that…. preventing him from taking his first pitch strike..which he is doing again……………. they will be talking I’m sure………

          As said in February/ March……….the absolute worst case scenario…… is a castrated AP playing for his Hall Numbers……and Tony coaching for his…………

          and for those of you that think that BD doesn’t have a better idea………better think again…….. he could delay this thing into mid January……….and then blame his weak player acquisition position on Tony/AP……. no pressure starts will benefit Chris C…..KL……. the others not so much……… Garcia is toast for the remainder…….. Cubs started there B team and he didn’t make 100 pitches…………..

          Go back and read the threads…………… It was actually even clear at that vantage point than now……
          BD will stroke Tony up until the last moment………. start the BQ pit………….

          • crdswmn says:

            If Tony is managing for Albert and no one else, wouldn’t the other players resent that and wouldn’t that affect their performance? It sounds like a hostile environment to me WC. That is my point. What is the environment in that clubhouse? Is Tony properly motivating these players or not? And if he is not fostering a team environment then how is he not responsible for their poor play?

            I may not know “the facts’ but I know that I see the same thing happening year after year with different players involved. so I can’t help but see that the common denominator is the manager.

            • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

              RC reads with a little more understanding than most……….. he freed his “kid”…..from whats brewing…………………..

              This article just came to my attention……………. hell, read away on Berkman…….

              http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/article_a42ca7b0-ca75-11e0-9d24-0019bb30f31a.html

              • crdswmn says:

                I know what RC did and why he did it. That doesn’t make what is going on any more palatable to me. I want this team to win and if TLR is acting in a manner that prevents that from happening, consciously or unconsciously, then something has to change. In my mind that means he either changes or he goes. That is my bottom line.

                • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

                  The good news for you CRD……….I just listened to the Rickets/Hendry press conference……… Tom Rickets is no Billiam DeWitt Jr………. much less refined………he knows what he bought……… and he hides few of his intentions……….. the Cubs are going to be in on the fun, guaranteed……..BD will give them an easy target………… Tactically………..whether they are sincere in their bidding or not………they would be stupid not to be active in the AP area……trying .weaken the Cardinals one way or another……….bottom line……..my prediction……….the Cubs are historically the stupidest organization ever created……….. they will end up with the bad deal…….and it will cost plenty………. and you know what I believe that would be……………… Hooray…………

  19. Bw52 says:

    And the buck stops with TLR……………………………because the pitchers can`t pitch out of trouble,the hitters can`t get clutch hits,errors are made……………………etc; yeah lets fire TLR because Albert hitting 40 points below his norm…………………………….Theriot has worst year defensively,LKohse pitches like crap for 2 months,Garcia gets a big contract and shows the toughness of a wet noodle,Franklin falls apart,Yadi suddenly plays crappy defense,Waino misses the season,Tallet and Trever Miller go South ,yeah lets fire the manager.or wait for him to do the “noble” thing and quit.
    Make me laugh.IMO with all the crap that has happened Keeping this team in contention has been a hell of a job.

    • blingboy says:

      Bw, you’re right, the buck stops with the second losingest manager of all time. Doing what he does better than anybody except Connie Mack.

      I would point out that other teams have injuries, slumps and underperformers too.

      How many of the poll items had a part in today’s loss? I just got home so I missed it.

      • Bw52 says:

        Bling-How many of those other teams are still in contention? In case you missed it a manager who isn`t any good usually doesn`t stick around too long either.So your anti -TLR jibe don`t wash .I wonder if you really are old enough to remember the 70`s and a decade of no playoffs etc;.TLR sure isn`t perfect by any means but laying the blame on the manager is just a pile of dung.Cards have had a hell of a lot of managers in 50 years i have been following the team.Some good some poor.So how come Joe Torre got shitcanned in STL?…………….Or did he just get smarter when he got a 200 million dollar payroll?Keeping the team in contention yearly with the payroll limitations and injuries has been a job TLR has done pretty well IMO.

    • friendmouse says:

      Point / counterpoint…there are pitchers that can’t pitch and hitters who can’t hit on ALL teams. A good manager knows who’s hot / who’s not…which strings to pull. I said soon after Brian posted the starting lineups that I was skeptical. Furthermore, I said that …well, I’m not going to repeat everything I said here. But I’m convinced that MOST current, active managers today in the MLB could take this exact team and we’d have a better record. I gave TLR MUCH credit when he had our maligned team in first place back in July and earlier. So, now that we’re (mostly) healthy…relatively so…what’s the excuse for not consistently winning? I’ll say it again…if Tony can somehow get this team to the World Series, I’ll sing his praises to the rafters. But if not, then I want another manager next year.

      • blingboy says:

        Bill D lives in the past too, so he’ll be thrilled to have TLR back. It will be interesting to see how the Tony thing and the Albert thing dance around each other this winter.

        I wonder how much Berkman will make next year.

    • Nutlaw says:

      Well, TLR constantly relying on the older relievers has been a problem. In going after Rhodes, he didn’t exactly learn his lesson.

      Theriot had long since stopped being a major league caliber shortstop. Repeatedly playing him there while putting better defensive options at 2B until Furcal was acquired was a blatantly bad move.

      Playing Berkman in right field and Holliday in left field is a bad move. Holliday is the stronger defender, yet is put in the less critical position because egos, rather than proper baseball decisions, dictate who fields which position.

    • Nutlaw says:

      I think that it would be fair to place the blame for the Rasmus trade partially in La Russa’s lap, as well. If he hadn’t been trashing Rasmus publically, the team could have gotten much more than spare parts in exchange for him.

  20. blingboy says:

    Brian, do you have anything on the Shelby thing? Your thoughts?

  21. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Broken hit and run in the 7th……… ball is inner third……..lower quadrant…….. and AP didn’t just miss, he was late on the swing…….no chance………..how can that happen……..missing is one thing…late???? no way……………Cubs feed……shows Jay talking to Decaslo in the dugout…..and is met with a shaking of heads by both…………… thats with Albert at the plate still of course………… miss on purpose? That was a very focused swing to be started late………….on a must swing………… can’t see it……..

  22. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    CF Jon Jay

    LF Allen Craig

    1B Albert Pujols

    RF Lance Berkman

    3B David Freese

    2B Skip Schumaker

    C Yadier Molina

    SS Ryan Theriot

    P Edwin Jackson

    Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/article_0d95966c-cb61-11e0-984e-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1VbCB0FvA

    • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

      They are even up in Vegas ////// -105 o/u 8

      Who likes Alan Craig to go better than 1/4 today????????? Jay has been trying to dump singles into left so he has a job……….. Craig is more of a threat to walk than hit………….. that means DP opportunities for AP going out of the strike zone to keep Berkman from inheriting………… should they try to pitch around him…………and who wouldn’t try to make it look that way??????

      • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

        Where is Descalso at SS against Garza……………… It once made Tony look clever……….now what does it mean???????? Is he hoping Theriot makes some sort of recovery…..for appearances……when the accusations start to fly……………..????????? Theriot has looked better at second of late…..he seems more focused…….he has a issue with his old team…….all good…………. does that outweigh what happens should he belly up here………where is the playing time for Decalso if its not here???????? Who sees Theriot beating the match-up here with enough finesse to justify this start…………..

        Jump in Brian……….it’ll put some hair on your chest………….

        • blingboy says:

          Jackson hasn’t got burned by Theriot yet, needs to join the club.

          I see we missed our chance in the first.

          First thing I see is Jackson seving up a fat one. Nice.

          • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

            No good news BB……………………… Cubs are feeding…………….. Jackson knows this isn’t where he wants to be…….or likely to be……….. there is an element of fatalism in every pitch he throws……………. Cards will go down hard for a while here…………. Dodgers will kick their pants too……….. there is so much (future) evident by each players behavior……………its going to get interesting………. when September call ups come up…….how will they be treated…..how many……… is Tony going to coach like he is tenured? The complex political environment of a loser………especially this one………..will be revealing……….. I wonder if Tony might end up on sick leave in September ……… ????? I can see that as a definite possibility………

            • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

              You have to like that……..Garza savages AP with breaking pitches………………shakes of 2 signals….and beats him with a fastball down Broadway ………………… losing money on the Chicago exchange to it seems……………

  23. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Ricketts has asked for 200 million from the city to upgrade Wrigley……………. wonder what he is offering in return?????????? Guy like that doesn’t stand up and call someone a loser unless he plans on making a statement…………. what might he try????????? Hmmmmmmmmmm……………..what is their to try….a better question………….

  24. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    I’m going to shut it down BB………………….. Tony didn’t make a move in the seventh……..because he had no move to make………..Holiday is totaled………… AP nothing..Craig…nothing…. Theriot …nothing……Jay off the bench……hey he loves it ……

    I feel for Tony………. when AP is your bench mark…………… all the pieces come out funny…… he doesn’t use Holiday for money…….and then he sends him up to show you why he didn’t………. he is playing the clever coach…………while he can……….

  25. Nutlaw says:

    I think that it may be just about time to give up hope for this season.

    • blingboy says:

      Lets look at what we might expect from here on out, based on what’s happened in the past.

      I looked at the last 5 seasons.

      2010, results at close of business Aug. 20: win % .546, GB -4.5
      2010, final standings…………………………………..win % .531, GB-5.0

      2009, August 20, .569, +7.0…final, .562, +7.5

      2008, August 20, .550, -7.5…final, .531, -11.5

      2007, August 20,. 488, -3.0,…final, .481, -7.0

      2006, August 20,.537, +2.5, …final .516, +1.5

      Observations: Every year the win % declined, so the team won a lower percentage of games after August 20 than before. It follows that we tended to lose ground in the standings.

      So, if the most likely thing to happen in the future is what has happened in the past, this will not be a team that comes on strong down the stretch, and just sort of quietly fades away.

      Jumbo will find inspiration in that and have hope.

      • crdswmn says:

        But the manager had absolutely nothing to do with any of that; it’s all the players’ fault.

      • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

        Good one BB………….. this is a wonderful time for a laboratory…………. here’s a good one. Who will be the first to recover and start feeding of the deadbeat/defeats. There are always a few that see this as an opportunity and play much better………with 0 pressure……… I expect Lohse to pitch well in a game that he should be down at least -150………. Kershaw is evil right now…….so evil, he might find a contest. Theriot is trying to stay in baseball……… Furcal is in the market…….. can’t save Craig…….he has swing issues that require a Tee……………… As much as I like Freese………he looks better than he is because of the players he is playing with……he continues to show limited mobility and speed….frailty to a fault….. we have help come at third I’d guess………………… Tony will savage a depressed Holiday…glamorizing the financial plausibility of AP’s pay expectation against team values………. this shouldn’t be allowed to happen. I go 15 days to start and evaluate from there……….. Carpenter shows his savvy as a broadcaster……he knows where he wants to end up……….. in truth, he is esteem mechanism that supports both Wainwright and Lohse….. that extends to the experience of a troubled Garcia and minimally to Westbrooke………… he is more important than DD…truth be known………

        And finally………where’s Billiam DeWitt Jr………. where is Billy 3 in all this carnage………. smart is the hunter……..

        Colby continues to drop his hands, pushing back not quite enough I’m afraid. He is hitting much better but his demand to take the ball out front seriously limits his option/average. He is very upright still…….which in truth is the enabler for this philosophy …….. they love the displays of effortless power up there…….his future looks profitable……….He will gravitate towards a southern enterprise zone before 2014……… then he can bend his knees a bit and hit 325 and keep the power arc swing going at the same time……….

        • Nutlaw says:

          I’ve shared some reservations about Allen Craig myself, WC, but you have to grant the guy that he has an .897 OPS over 143 plate appearances this season, no?

          • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

            He seems like a nice kid Nut…………… he has some bad roll models………… Holiday even more so than AP……….. He needs a serious career evaluation. Example: Holiday needs to be lifting weights in season like a polar bear needs a bikini………….. A guy that is power lifting free weights pre-game…….has a body image problem……. means he want to feel pumped…..definition……his size……. his flexibility in minimal…..his ability to work with his height……his running……all seems to be out of phase….. it means he has a big ego….and self esteem issues……. it means he excepts a body image and it utility……..which in Holidays case sucks……….. I cringe every time a ball goes out his way. His approach is a privilege…his batting practice display a thing of legend……………….. AP is his biggest shield…you can’t go after Holiday when you can’t approach Holiday about his athleticism ……. he should be doing only flexibility work, extension, light explosions………. hand eye……he has stopped making adjustments……… Craig is victimized by this attitude…he is plodding in all phases of his game…….. Freese? if those surgeries haven’t worked……what you see is what you get……

            When you read the Skip article……….wear he admits to being just a utility player……. he is saying he will except that kind of money to stay with the team………… the lame duck TLR will do all he can for him……………… I have to believe that BD/Mo are going to start setting the table by September. Who knows whats on that menu…………….

      • JumboShrimp says:

        Every game begins 0-0.
        What happenned in a prior season has zero relevance to predicting what this year’s squad will do.

        However, this year’s team dropped the first two games to Pittsburg and Chicago. Losing in Chicago does not allow much hope.

  26. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    2B Schumaker
    3B Freese
    1B Pujols
    LF Holliday
    RF Berkman
    CF Jay
    C Molina
    SS Descalso
    P Westbrook

    Freese is ok………..just not Berkman of Holiday……….. Tony has lost it.

    • blingboy says:

      Swapping Freese and Jay from usual spots in the order seems questionable, unless its to avoid two lefties at the top. That makes sense against a team with a lights out loogy. My memory isn’t what it was, help me out, who’s that lights out loogy the Cubs have?

      • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

        It has nothing to do with baseball BB……………. Tony will not disrupt the status Quo……….its now about their political position in the BD/AP battle………….. if Tony sets a precedent, he will be pressured to continue if it is successful……….. if Berkman get hot, he might steal the Hr lead back..or win the Rbi title for the team anyway………… if Holiday starts hitting at 2, it will diminish AP chance of having rbi opportunities roll up like they have……………. This is getting ugly…….. there are 30+ games left, dangerous territory to negotiate…………. He will never sit AP again………… If we won out, we have a shot at catching someone………… Tony has to avoid a Pujols slump against what would occur if these guys started partying………….it sick.

      • Nutlaw says:

        Freese has a better OBP than of the other options for #2 currently starting. I think that he fits well there.

        • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

          Ownership has 120 million reasons to ignore OBP past……….and promoting new and exciting numbers…………. We have to get Holiday and Berkman cranked up…….. they’re not…….

        • blingboy says:

          Maybe that’s it Nut. Seems kind of un-Tony-like. Jay sixth just seems odd.

          • JumboShrimp says:

            TLR puts Jay 6th to take some pressure off him. It worked.

            • Bw52 says:

              Jumbo-You are preaching to the choir…………………………..the nabobs of negativity revel in their self proclaimed wisdom.Of course it looks like hot air to me.Thats just my opinion………….maybe not as wordy or pretty as some of the national Inquirer stuff from the West……………………..Just a opinion.

  27. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    The issue with Holiday…………… he is back in a closed stance……..this threats to take a pitch deep, and away…………… but its just a bluff………teams move the ball around on him….he is greedy to have something at the top of the zone……..but those are just baiting pitches……… they will show him the ball low and away…..even off speed low and away……….he has grown accustomed to getting low and trying to hit that pitch……and people are content to have him roll over even if its a base hit……..keeping his power numbers down is all anyone could hope for………….. he has to square up, move up, and bend his knees a bit………………… his leg kick keeps him from stepping open…..a pitchers biggest fear……

    Skip comes out aggressive……….goes out of the zone……..lead off garbage……….

    • CariocaCardinal says:

      ÿeah, that Holiday guy is just a terrible hitter.

      That Jay guy who Westie says can’t hit a lick didn’t do too bad either.

      And if I remember correctly, Molina was headed towards .250 – not!

  28. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    great short swing by Freese…………… Albert avoids disaster with a little help……….. Holiday is very closed……… nice recovery away but harmless………. Berkman goes OPO……not enough……….good to see though……….. he hasn’t hit a dong this month…….. they are showing Pujols Jersey’s….in blue…..

  29. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Westbrooke has good stuff……..locating pretty well……..if we score 5 we win….. if they score first….not so likely……….. we already got a huge break in the first……….. if they get 5…they win

  30. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Bottom of the order speaks again…………… Molina spanked that one

  31. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Ouch…………. Byrd was baiting him……….its Byrds fault………..

  32. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Cubs are sure Tony is going to squeeze……….. just a few bluffs gets a desirable count……… Descalso takes him self out of contention………he doesn’t heed a strike……… pathetic coaching………. I’m just guessing everyone heard Valentine hint at Tony’s coming posture ………… Tony sound senile in his interview……………..

  33. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Fat pitch……….good swing…….he flicked it to 45 degrees and let it go right back to 30 before the whip….. nice level cut…….good balance….thats why he turned so efficiently…………. Holiday … little leagues it………..these guys are a mystery………..

  34. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Nice call by Quaddy………………….

  35. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Winning culture…….analytics……….. have to wait………..duh………they’re going after the package deal…

  36. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    I rest my case about Ricetts………………… he wants to be in charge and he want a deal that is white washed…………… my take from that is that he will try to bring Tony in first and then see how much they have to pay Pujols……. He can go after Tony in October…………………..

  37. JumboShrimp says:

    Lopez threw 4 pitches to Molina, all over the center of the plate. First one, HR. Second pitch, infield out. Then in the 3rd at bat, a foul and a HR. Great game for Yadier.

  38. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Albert seems happy………..how could things be better……….. ????

  39. friendmouse says:

    I will opine that Holliday’s current “funk” is reason #1 why we’re struggling recently. “Relaxed” approach is not a familiar feeling for him right now. It should be. But I might suggest that TLR’s management style is causal here…and with other clubhouse attitudes, too. Shouldn’t Big Mac be able to help Matt here?

    It’s necessary that we play with a chip on our shoulder until we overtake the crew. Otherwise, I’m afraid a que sera sera attitude will infect the clubhouse.

  40. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Radiation……….chemo………….opt out clause……….

    • friendmouse says:

      …jumping straight to the punch-line of a wonderful joke…”…there’s bound to be a pony in here somewhere!” No offense, Westie, but that’s the feeling I sometimes have after reading certain of your posts. Perhaps you’ve noticed, but I’m not the brightest bulb in the box, and never have much caught on to poetry and mysteries. As Lloyd plead with the lovely Ms. Swanson in “Dumb and Dumber,”…. Just give it to me straight, Mary.” The beating around the bush and teasing with riddles can drive a man nuts. I think.

  41. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    1. Sch, 2B

    2. Jay CF

    3. Pus, 1B

    4. liday, LF

    5. kman, RF

    6. ese, 3B

    7. Moli, C

    8. Des, SS

    9. Carp, P

    • friendmouse says:

      Now there we have it!!! I have no problem criticizing TLR when he trots out a lineup card like he did the day he started AC in CF, so likewise I have no problem in heaping on the Kudos when Mr. Manager gets it right…for a change!! The ONLY possible ??? is Descalso at SS. But, evidently Furcal and Theriot aren’t recovered from their respective “dings” enough to start. Plus, De-cal did a satisfactory job last evening. I was a bit flustered when he left possibly a tad early to cover 2nd on the hit and run with Castro running and Barney poked it just past him. He gave good effort, but I believe Furcal would have gotten the out there. Maybe not.

      I look for Carp to be mostly lights out tonight. Predicting a 7-1 victory. Berkman contributing nicely.

  42. blingboy says:

    Updated lineup

    1. Skip Schumaker (L) 2B
    2. David Freese (R) 3B
    3. Albert Pujols (R) 1B
    4. Matt Holliday (R) LF
    5. Lance Berkman (S) RF
    6. Jon Jay (L) CF
    7. Yadier Molina (R) C
    8. Daniel Descalso (L) SS
    9. Chris Carpenter (R) P

  43. blingboy says:

    This is pretty early for the Cards to be out of it. BDW will have a chance to see if Albert is a draw or does it take a competitive team to fill the seats.

    The dynamic pricing will provide some bargains. Will there be buyers?

    Lots of $0.50 tickets for this series on stubhub. I’d guess some are from the team trying to put people in the stands.

    Will take some creative camera work by the FSM guys to miss the empties is my guess.

    Hope Carp gets some support, both O and D, and pen.

  44. friendmouse says:

    Get on, Freese…and Albert can deliver the “fatal blow!”

  45. friendmouse says:

    Glad Carp go through that inning unscathed. I thought the 6th might be his most challenging inning of the game. The K on Kemp was huge. He’s really pitching well. “Meat” coming up…we need to inflict maximum punishment this inning.

  46. friendmouse says:

    WOW! Albert hacking on 1st pitch stirke, but doesn’t get all of it. Too bad…he’s not done.

    • friendmouse says:

      Well, double-B, you’re hopes did not become realities. Carp got no support from the O, the D, the pen, nor the manager’s box. If ever anyone deserved to win a game, Carp certainly did last night.

      My guess is TLR didn’t sleep too well last night. And I’m sincere when I say “That’s too bad.” I’ve admired TLR over the years, and sang his praises many a time. But, for whatever reason, he’s lost it. His decisions seem flat out strange to me so much of the time. I understand that it’s not in his character to just quit…especially on this team I know he loves. And I understand that neither DeWitt nor Moz will fire him…that would be so ingratious to his legend…and, since the season is seemingly lost anyway, I guess you just sit back, light up a Lucky, and still find some joy in being a Cardinals fan and getting to enjoy the greatest game in the world. Then come Oct. 1, TLR rides off into the setting sun where he can spend more time petting his pups.

      Who’s next?

  47. friendmouse says:

    YIKES! Holliday’s struggles continue. Nice to see the buccos have tied the crew…after dropping game 1 earlier today. Sadly, the crew likely are not finished scoring in this game.

  48. friendmouse says:

    YIKES! Holliday’s struggles continue. Nice to see the buccos have tied the crew…after dropping game 1 earlier today. Sadly, the crew likely are not finished scoring in this game.

  49. friendmouse says:

    85 pitches of 3-hit, shutout ball through 7 innings. THIS is the Chris Carpenter we’ve been longing for. Now let’s see if we can get him some run support.

  50. friendmouse says:

    What’s the phrase…”Here comes ‘The Tell’?”…If Carp has another shut-down inning, does TLR pull him for a pitch-hitter to start the bottom of the inning and try to get a run? Or, does he decide to allow Carp to fend for himself and leave the game in his hands? I’d do the latter; TLR will probably pull him.

  51. friendmouse says:

    Are you kidding me…8 pitches, 3 up; 3 down with a K. You MUST leave Carp in!!!! I’m pretty sure TLR will do the right thing here.

  52. friendmouse says:

    Seriously?…Rhodes is warming up? What about the zep-ster? Another TLR stroke…of what?

  53. friendmouse says:

    Totally serious here…if we lose this game, TLR is fired by noon tomorrow. I cannot believe he’d pull Carp at this point UNLESS Carp told hem he’s totally gassed and wants to come out. NOW HERE’s the TELL!!

  54. friendmouse says:

    Nice game Chris. Lotta good it did you. You should have hit a homerun during one of your AB’s. I hope someone will watch / listen to the post-game interviews…I cannot down here in Texas. Unless Carp asked out of the game, then that was just wrong to pull him and take the game away from him. If I were Carp, I’d tell Moz “I ain’t interested in coming back unless you get yourself a new manager. Period.”

    • Bw52 says:

      FM- then wait don`t you just wait and read about if Carp was gassed or whatever .Carp hit the batter that was the start of the trouble.Rhodes did his job.Salas screwed his part up.

      • friendmouse says:

        You are right, B-52…and that’s what I said…IF…IF Carp was gassed or his arm was hurting or he just wanted to call it a night (what are the chances of him “quitting?”), then okay. TLR gets a pass. Otherwise…well, I’m done with him. (Like that matters, or he cares what I think)..he IS still one the greatest of all time…or maybe I should say he WAS one of the greatest managers of all time.

  55. friendmouse says:

    Hey, I got an idea. Maybe we’ll get a “walk-off!” We haven’t had one of those in a while!

  56. JumboShrimp says:

    Its tough to lose a home game to Aaron Miles.

    • friendmouse says:

      Props to Aaron Miles! I’d much rather lose to Aaron Miles than to an over-active manager. Still…maybe TLR was right, and Carp needed to come out. I ain’t buyin’ it, though.

  57. Bw52 says:

    FM-that would have been nice.Didn`t happen though.Damn tough one to lose.

  58. crdswmn says:

    I missed the entire game, but the majority opinion on Twitter seems to be that Carp shouldn’t have come out and TLR should be fired tomorrow. Sounds like an interesting game. I ain’t sweating these games cause the Cards don’t stand a chance anyway. Anybody want to make a wager on 2012?

    • T8Ball says:

      Carp left a Hanger across the plate to Kemp in the top of the 8th. Kemp missed it and got the fly out. Carp’s next batter he plunked Rivera. Now that left Tony in a peculiar spot. Is Carp losing it on the mound? Do I go to the lefty and have my closer ready for the next two batters after Ethier? Or let Carp finish the game and take care of business? Fans wanted Carp to finish it. They told Tony so by booing him very loudly.

      1st, when Yadi went to the mound and grabbed the rosin bag, then when Carp shook off Yadi, the fans knew what was coming. The crowd started groaning a little louder.

      Next, Carp threw to 1st. A few groans turned to boos, and the whole charade was to get the next guy coming in a chance to warmup. The next guy was Rhodes.

      Tony goes up the steps and then some of the loudest boos I’ve ever heard rang down from Busch. Some came down for taking Carp out and not letting him get his shutout. Some came down for bringing Rhodes. Some came down b/c some fans accepted the inevitable that the game was lost. Some came down b/c well people are tired of giving up close games and losing down the stretch.

      I actually wanted to boo. I shocked myself, but I did want to boo. I realized at that moment, that St. Louis had given up on Tony.

      Rhodes did his job, though, and in a bit of irony was cheered loudly, as though a portion of those boors were ashamed of themselves for booing.

      As for the rest, you know how it went, Salas choked after a 1-2 count to Miles, Furcal choked on the throw home, etc, etc.

      It was hard to tell sitting at home, if Carp was done or miffed for being taken out. Tony asked him a question (what it was, I can’t say), Carp’s response was “i don’t know”, if I read his lips correctly. What that means? I don’t know, lol.

      One thing is for sure, Tony is pretty much done in St. Louis. Fans will rebel if he’s brought back. I was irritated by tonight, by the past few months, too. But I was sad that my fans were brought to the point of booing at Busch Stadium. It’s pandora’s box, I heard the boos before with Franklin, and others this season, but this was pure menace, IMO. The fans will now boo when it’s not needed or deserved, and that makes me sad.

      As for 2012 and your bet? I guess you are asking if he comes back? DeWitt likes him, but DeWitt doesn’t want drama… I think he’s allowed to remain the Coach for the rest of the season, but isn’t asked back. I don’t think he wants to continue. His health has been a challenge this season. And he should be ashamed of what has happened to his team the last two seasons.

      No, I don’t think he’s back. Not after the world heard Busch booing

      • crdswmn says:

        That’s pretty much how I heard it. I would say that whether or not Carp was losing it, and that is debatable from what I hear, was not the issue. I think the fans have just had enough of season after season of the same thing. Last night was the last straw.

        I think the only thing that will get BDW’s attention is for the fans to stop coming to games. This may be the turning point for that to start happening.

        • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

          GuitarHero said on: August 23, 2011, 1:03 pm
          What really happened? Each player has his own “distress signal”. If Tony and Dave’s experience has an outstanding strength, it is in recognizing signals like these. Carpenter showed his white flag, as small and guarded as that particular flag is. Tony gave him a moments consideration. Chris leaned across and picked a piece of lint off Tony’s jersey. What don’t you all get here. The 3rd straight change up by Salas was called from the bench. It was left up, Salas fearing the walk more than contact. Why? He senses what is happening with this team. Fear rules them. Dodgers are a down team. They didn’t beat us. We very meticulously showed them though, how we could be beaten. I’m sure they are grateful.

          Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/round-two/article_73633964-cda9-11e0-9b8b-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1VsPYaHEN

          • CariocaCardinal says:

            Funny, Westie quotes himself from another forum.

            why would i want to read the opinion of that bunch? they provide no insight. I’d rather read you to show how little I value their opinions!

  59. T8Ball says:

    A moth flying into Holliday’s ear. Crazy.

    Apparently it flew in deep.

    It’s like we are cursed by something or nother

    • friendmouse says:

      Yep, T8B, a poet could have a hay-day with that and other oddities going on with our ‘birds. Might as well find humor and fun in some aspect of our games.

  60. blingboy says:

    You can get a pair of tickets for tonight on stubhub for 2 cents. 4cents for the pair.

    Section 240, loge level, will cost you $3.80.

  61. blingboy says:

    1. Rafael Furcal (S) SS
    2. Allen Craig (R) CF
    3. Albert Pujols (R) 1B
    4. Matt Holliday (R) LF
    5. Lance Berkman (S) RF
    6. David Freese (R) 3B
    7. Yadier Molina (R) C
    8. Ryan Theriot (R) 2B
    9. Kyle Lohse (R) P

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