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Colby Rasmus trade: What he and others are saying

The St. Louis Cardinals dealt centerfielder Colby Rasmus to the Toronto Blue Jays in an eight-player deal on Wednesday.

<a href='http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/pages/video?UUID=7ec516f9-d5ca-4b1a-9610-6eceb0d35c85&#038;src=SLPl:embed::uuids' target='_new' title='Rasmus reacts to trade'>Video: Rasmus reacts to trade</a>
Rasmus spoke outside the Cardinals clubhouse to FOX Sports Midwest on Wednesday afternoon.

Update: Tony Rasmus spoke with the Toronto Sun: “Rasmus’ dad blasts Tony La Russa”

<a href='http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/pages/video?UUID=638a1673-3ede-47bd-9aa2-339b141b5a2a&#038;src=SLPl:embed::uuids' target='_new' title='La Russa on trade'>Video: La Russa on trade</a>
Tony La Russa recaps the trade in a discussion with Mike Shannon.

Link to my summary of the trade at The Cardinal Nation.

Many others are weighing in, including a number of national commentators. Here is a sampling of their comments.

Keith Law, ESPN: “…The Cardinals, meanwhile, have made a terrible organizational move by allowing their aging manager to run off the best hitting prospect the team has produced since drafting Albert Pujols….”

Jim Bowden, ESPN: “…This deal will come back to haunt them and sooner than they think. The Cardinals better win this year, or they will really regret this one. Worst trade of the year, sorry Cardinals fans.”

Eric Karabell, ESPN: “It had become clear that the St. Louis Cardinals organization simply didn’t want outfielder Colby Rasmus around anymore, and thus the team sent him packing Wednesday in an odd move that I think we’ll all remember years from now. Dump Rasmus? Well, the Cardinals kind of did just that, and kudos to the Toronto Blue Jays nabbing him…”

Ben Watanabe, NESN: “…a smart baseball man once told me to judge the winner of a trade by which team gets the most talented player in the deal. Rasmus is undeniably the most talented player involved in this deal, and Toronto got him at a very cheap price.”

Matthew Pouliot, NBC Sports Hardball Talk: “I just can’t believe that the Cardinals, even if they felt that they had to move him, couldn’t get more for Rasmus. A legitimate No. 2 starter or an All-Star-caliber middle infielder. They gave up a terrific long-term property without getting a real difference-maker in return.”

Aaron Gleeman, NBC Sports Hardball Talk: “Maybe time will show that Rasmus feuding with La Russa was a sign of much bigger future issues to come, but from a pure talent-for-talent standpoint this deal is a clear win for Toronto.”

Stan McNeal, Sporting News: “The No. 1 message to take away from the Colby Rasmus trade: The St. Louis Cardinals are going for it now. They need pitching, and they are getting three pitchers who will improve a rotation and bullpen that have been suspect in recent weeks…”

Danny Knobler, CBS Sports: “The stat guys will wonder how the Cardinals could ever trade Colby Rasmus, who is 24 years old and ranked just behind Carl Crawford, Andre Ethier and Ryan Braun in OPS+ last year. I’m wondering if the Cardinals just made the move that puts them in position to win the National League Central…”

Jeff Passan, Yahoo Sports (via Twitter): “A 24-year-old CF who OPS+’d 133 last year just got traded for a FA-pitcher-to-be, a decent RH reliever and a LOOGY. Am I missing something? The hardest part to swallow for Cardinals fans: The impetus behind the Colby Rasmus trade, Tony La Russa, may not even be back next season. Cheer up, St. Louis. At least the Cardinals didn’t include Shelby Miller, Carlos Martinez or Oscar Taveras as a throw-in.”

Peter Gammons, MLB Network (via Twitter): “Maybe Edwin Jackson becomes better than .500 but old adage: when managers make trades, general managers often trade jobs.”

More links and commentary may be added later.

What is your reaction to the Colby Rasmus-Edwin Jackson trade?

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130 Responses to “Colby Rasmus trade: What he and others are saying”

  1. Kansasbirdman says:

    Well Brian, I just became a subscriber. I was looking at your tweet scroll and saw the quantity for quality musing. Was that after you knew the specifics of the trade? I do think we lost quality and we had it at a cheap price.

  2. jonseals says:

    I’m amazed at the number of fans who think this is a great trade for the Cardinals.

  3. Bw52 says:

    I like the trade.It gives the Cards pitching helpin the rotation and bullpen and a backup OF and sends Colby someplace else (which is what Colby wanted supposedlly..So now the Cards are catching hell because fans can`t get past the “potential great player” being traded and the Cards not getting 73 top prospects in return and 97 starting pitchers etc;.

    • jonseals says:

      Three of the players received don’t have a contract for 2012. At the end of the season, we’ll have a cost-controlled LOOGY, three PTBNLs (or cash), and maybe two Type B compensation picks. That’s not a lot for three years of Rasmus (and the other thow-ins).

      One year only, it’s a decent trade. But the Cardinals better win the division and go far in the playoffs.

      • Bw52 says:

        JS-Dotel has a very affordable option for 2012 and Rzepazyinski has starting experience although doing very well in the pen.. Rasmus was going to arbitration after this season and is his POTENTIAL on field contribution worth the distractions that came with him? Hell i wanted Colby to be the next great Homegrown Cardinal star.The fact remains that it didn`t seem to be able to happen for several reasons.Plus the Cards have a pretty good history of potential FA pittchers staying in STL.I don`t see it as a losing situation.You also might notice that the Cards got a former #1 pick who was a can1t miss prospect as a throw-in on the deal.Nothing is a sure thing for anybody.

  4. Brian Walton says:

    Wednesday lineup from FOX Sports Midwest: Descalso 5, Theriot 6, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, Jay 8, Molina 2, Skip 9, Punto 4, Carp 1

  5. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    I’m going to hold off talking about this trade for a month……………… many things will be out in the open by then. A positive for Colby, and you better believe that the Jays are aware of it…… their home field sets up perfectly for a player with Colby’s particular defensive “complexities”……… see if you can guess what that means…………… In a month, you won’t recognize Colby’s hitting stance………changes are coming his way…………….

    I think all of you are going to appreciate the subtle “fine tunning” that Mo’s actions just contributed to the team chemistry ,………… adding three veteran “brothers” to “stimulate” our home town posse …….. I’m am elated by these moves………………….. and very, very curious as to what will transpire ……… its almost like we are a real baseball team ……….. this was a zero cost maneuver, cashing in Colby and dumping the trash………… as corrosive as thats going to be for certain factions…..we are a much better team right now than yesterday………… I couldn’t be more pleased……..unless we actually got a few better players…….but hey……..here comes Tony’s last charge…………….

    Colby will be fine when he gets to his 3rd team………..

  6. blingboy says:

    McClellan to the pen, I assume.

    The AL East is center stage. Lots of face time in NY and Boston, lots of exposure on ESPN and other big time sports media. RC must be thrilled. Good luck to Colby.

    Let’s see what Dunc can do with Jackson and the others.

    One of the more important things about the trade is it clears the deadwood out of the pen. We’ve been carrying one or more RPs who don’t help all year. Just clogging things up and putting more work on the other guys, and fewer options for Tony.

  7. JumboShrimp says:

    One way to think about this trade is its impact for this year and for later years.

    Jackson helps the rotation this year. The lefty replaces Miller, who we shipped out. The 2011 pitching staff is bolstered and we have a better chance to make the playoffs. Next season, we may not have Pujols and likely not Bergman, so the Cards are making a strong move to win this year.

    Jackson is represented by Scott Boras. The Cards know how to do deals with Boras, having signed Holiday and Lohse, when represented by Scott.

    For 2012 and beyond, the big unknown are the the three prospects the Cards can obtain later. Toronto is pretty well stocked with prospects. This is why Toronto had to get brought into the deal, since the White Sox do not have much minor league talent. Its hard to judge the Rasmus trade, since a crucial part of the deal from the perspective of Mo is presently unknown.

    • Brian Walton says:

      Remains to be seen if any prospects come over and what quality they are. I am not holding my breath.

      • crdswmn says:

        I heard that cash is more likely than prospects.

      • JumboShrimp says:

        The three prospects are a key to the deal, for Mo.
        If the prospects were crummy, then Toronto did not have to get brought into the deal. We could have taken lousy guys from the White Sox just as well as from the Jays. This would have been simpler. Inclusion of the Jays is a “tell” that Mo wanted better prospects than the Sox can offer.
        PJ Walters is in about his 3rd full season at Memphis; he is getting crowded out in St Louis, so he gets a chance elsewhere. Good for him. And we collect Corey Patterson to have a backup for Jon Jay. good for us.
        When Brendan Ryan was traded, there were much sobbing. But it turns out that Cleto has a good arm and he might help in a year or two. If we collected talent for Brendan Ryan, we will have exacted a price for Rasmus too.
        This is not the Keith Hernandez trade for Rick Ownby.

        • Brian Walton says:

          You may not want to hear this Jumbo, but word is the three prospects may have been added at the end of the deal during the MLB approval process instead of more money moving at the time of the trade. Hence my comment not to expect much of anything in terms of prospects. This has up to six months to unfold. My guess is that later on, cash will quietly change hands.

          The inclusion of the Jays could have been because they had better available relievers than the Sox. Also, Toronto may have been more willing to take the Cardinals discards. Three teams doesn’t tell me much of anything other than two teams couldn’t come to terms alone.

          • JumboShrimp says:

            We could have simply released Miller and Tallet, so the Jays being willing to receive them is not a factor to explain inclusion of the Jays.
            The White Sox have relievers who could have been been traded, so again this does not explain the Jays inclusion.
            I refuse to believe we are so hepped up on Corey Patterson that we had to include the Jays.
            It boils down to the Jays having the 4th rated minor league system last winter and the White Sox 27th. We wanted Jackson, yes, but two months of him was not worth 3 years of Rasmus, so the Jays had to be brought into the picture to contribute prospect talent.
            Much will be revealed in due course.

            • Brian Walton says:

              Fair enough. We will remember this discussion and can reopen once we see the prospects the Cardinals receive, if any.

              • JumboShrimp says:

                “The Cardinals take on approximately $3 million in salary for the remainder of the season—in addition to surrendering Rasmus’ future potential—so the value of the players to be named (or cash) from Toronto may not be negligible.” — Baseball America article on the trade.

                • Brian Walton says:

                  That offers hope, though it just could mean more money. Thanks for sharing.

                  • JumboShrimp says:

                    Money is useful. Maybe it was $3MM to cover for the extra salaries taken on by the Cards.

                    Maybe trading Miller and Tallet was a way of saving a little money too, because otherwise they could have just been released. Now Toronto will pay them.

                • Brian Walton says:

                  Derrick Goold wrote that Toronto’s elite prospects are not on the PTBNL list. Players or money will be determined by performance of the traded players. Like I said, don’t hold your breath.

                  • JumboShrimp says:

                    I agree PTBNs tend not to be uber prospects as a general rule. Normally it would be a list of guys and our scouts would follow them and we would select 3 among them at the end of the minor league season. If we do not like any, however, we have the choice of money instead. Its fungible.

                    • Brian Walton says:

                      On this we agree. You began this discussion in a very different place, calling the three prospects the key to the deal. They are most likely not.

                    • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

                      those are options in lieu of the cash………… they are there for a reason….. that was the tenor of this whole trade……………

    • Nutlaw says:

      Yeah, one would hope that there is at least one decent prospect included for later. Otherwise, it looks like a pretty crummy move. Jackson is only okay. I guess that a flyball pitcher makes sense given the team’s infield defense. Dotel is okay, but old, just like all of the other relievers that the team had to ship out. Patterson isn’t good enough to play regularly and can’t even platoon with Jay, who will be overexposed. Rzepczynski is a good inclusion, as the Cardinals didn’t have any lefties for the pen.

      Dumping Tallet and Miller was a plus. Giving Rasmus and Walters a new home is good for them. Colby will mash in Toronto. Cardinals fans will probably be cursing this trade for years to come.

  8. blingboy says:

    We need to drop one from the 25 active roster. Either a DL or send to Memphis. Any word.

  9. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Don’t underestimate the pitching bump from AL to NL………..it is often thought of as a full point……and thats real………………………….. Cards seem really up for this one……………… I’m sure AP will carry us if no one feels like playing………………..

    • blingboy says:

      Good point about AL/NL Westy.

      • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

        We are going to loose a Carpenter start BB………. Descalso using the MM guess/swing based on count…………….and he is swinging way to hard for his role………. Pujols body language at first is making me sick……whats he pouting about………. ???? ………..we have no leadership on the field……. And I know what AP is pouting about………….

    • Brian Walton says:

      Jackson has spent multiple years in the NL including 2/3 of last season so we don’t have to guess. For whatever reason, his AL ERAs have generally been lower. Even with a no-hitter in there, he put up a 5.16 ERA last season in 21 starts with Arizona.

      • JumboShrimp says:

        Arizona’s park is a launching pad for HRs. That explains Jackson’s ERA there.

        • Brian Walton says:

          You did not check the data like I did. In 2010, Arizona’s park factor for pitching was 99.

          P.S. Jackson’s HR rate in Arizona was lower than his career average. Better to look it up than present hope as fact.

          • JumboShrimp says:

            You probably have time to look things up, Brian. But I do not mind your doing so.

            What is Busch’s park factor in comparison to Arizona’s stadium? Which stadium is easier for offense?

            • Brian Walton says:

              We’ve been through this cycle countless times.

              1) Jumbo tries to explain away bad stuff by making an unsupported positive statement, wording it as if it is fact.

              2) Brian, knowing Jumbo is shooting from the hip, does Jumbo’s homework by looking up the numbers/background and explaining why his statement is not factual.

              If you don’t have time to get the facts straight, then please don’t present your theories in that manner. All you’d need to say:

              “Could Jackson’s AZ ERA be due to a high home run rate because of the park?” instead of asserting it to be when it is not.

          • JumboShrimp says:

            Ok, I looked up Jackson’s history. Surrendering HRs is generally not a problem for him. Over his ML career, he has given up about 1 per 9 innings.
            During time in Arizona, hits and walks upticked. It was not a HR vulnerability in that park, as I had surmised.
            Jackson got his first opportunity to play for Tampa in 2007; as an inexperienced kid, he got smacked around in the harder hitting AL. He improved year two, as many do.
            Jackson had an excellent year 3rd year in rotation for Detroit in 2009, ate 214 innings, Kd 161.
            Hits and walks increased with a losing Arizona team during 2010, until he got traded to the White Sox, where he excelled and continued to be good this year.
            He’s a gifted young man. Mr. Jackson will deservedly command a good contract after this season.

  10. blingboy says:

    Patterson should be useful as a defensive replacement for Lance, and as a pinch runner. Once Craig returns I’ll like the roster better.

    Congrats to Jay, starting center fielder for a contender. He’s come a long way fast. Earned it the old fashioned way.

  11. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Theriot has had a major bat position change…alla AP……………its 0/1…….it is his solution though…….

  12. Brian Walton says:

    I added a link up top to an interview with RCW in the Toronto Sun. No holds barred.

    • Kansasbirdman says:

      Did you ask what he thinks of Toronto’s hot dogs?

    • crdswmn says:

      You got to give RC credit, he speaks his mind. :)

      The Cardinal faithful won’t believe any of it though. No one knows what really went on except the parties involved but sides will be taken. Same as with every controversy with that ever increasing list of players in the last 15 years.

      Somebody needs to write a tell all book someday. :)

      • JumboShrimp says:

        Lots of fictions in Tony Rasmus’ account.

        Rasmus got bumped by a Luhnow signee, John Jay. Its a ridiculous fantasy to blame a Luhnow/TLR schism for trading Colby.

        Tony and his family were lobbying for Colby to be traded, in many posts at the Birdhouse, during 2008, when Colby was at Memphis. They have been begging for a trade for a long while. Nothing at all to do with hitting coaches this summer. This story is a 4 year old soap opera.

        We have kept Rasmus around, not giving in to the lobbying. Yet now Jay has emerged, we have a surplus in CF and can move Colby for pitching help in the short run and maybe a few prospects too, we shall see.

        • crdswmn says:

          First Country heard from. ;)

          I don’t know what has happened in the last 3 years between Colby and TLR because I wasn’t there. If you were Jumbo you have been holding out on everybody. :)

          RC obviously believed Colby was in an untenable situation for some reason and he did what he felt he had to to get him out of it, right or wrong. It has just taken him 3 years to do it. I can’t fault him as a parent for wanting his son to be happy, even if his methods were a little unorthodox.

          It’s over now. Whatever happens in the future will be interesting to watch.

        • Bw52 says:

          Jumbo-you are wasting your time.Some just want to blame the manager for everything.A very narrow minded view by some that have to scream the loudest and the most often.

          • Kansasbirdman says:

            Bw I think if you read the pundits (the pros, the people that review this stuff for a living) you would discover that the trade by consensus has been graded pretty low for the cardinals. If you didn’t want to expend that effort, you could peruse Brians cliff notes compendium above. Your insulting the other posters is grade school bullying. I respect your privilge to post, why can’t you handle disagreement without attacking another person?

            • Bw52 says:

              KB-you just might try reading and see who insults the fans who like the trade.Then maybe you will see who fires the 1st volley.So try again and look real close.

              • Kansasbirdman says:

                Hey, I’m glad to have posters here, defending the trade and pointing outt potential positives. It gives me hope that it wasn’t a total flop. I hope after the long haul we come out ahead ‘ala Lance Berkman (I know there were posters here that were saying that was a good move and their opinion was going against the tide). I don’t like the trade right now, I hope I am proved wrong. Also, I am not attacking anyone here for their opinion disagreeing with me (writing and critiquing the players or manager is different if related to their baseball performance because they go into the sport knowing there are journalists, tv personalities, bloggers and whole tv channels devoted to that very thing and they assume the risk the day they decide to turn pro-that’s why they are paid handsomely, there are a lot of people that pay attention).
                I am not calling those who are pro-trade ‘narrow-minded larussa lovers’. Personally I can see reasons to worship and to loath his style/abilities/personality/decisions as a manager. So those who post about one of his decisions or actions her who are typically pro TLR or anti TLR are going to have a point some of the time. Therefore it is more productive and more persuasive to point out the flaws of the subject, not to try to allege flaws in the poster. It would be pretty boring here to see posts go back and forth that say ‘dont listen to X they are just a so and so, they are blinded by such and such’ or ‘dont waste your time on X, they are an idiot’. If there are posters personally insulting you they are in the wrong, I just saw noticed your earlier post on this thread. If I did I will definitely apologize so please point it out to me if I did.

                • Bw52 says:

                  KB-i don`t have a problem with a little give and take over things.I have a problem when someone says people who like the trade don`t have enough brain power to figure it out.Just remember there are several sides to every action.I stated my case why i liked the trade.In a perfect wotld Colby and others would get along and Colby would be a lifetime Card.It simply wasn`t happening for several reasons so he`s gone.

            • Bw52 says:

              KB-another thing..the talking heads are yapping about Colby`s potential.The fact remains he hasn`t played so good.He had extra baggage that was a problem.He was being outplayed by someone else.He was simply underperforming headache who was traded to help the pitching.Why don`t you open your eyes and realize i simply replied to someone else`s general insult.So before you try playing hall moniter just make sure you wake up amd see who the Eddie Haskell is.Appaerently some have free rein to do what they choose without being called out here.

    • Bw52 says:

      Brian-Stage door daddy.

  13. Kansasbirdman says:

    The fox sports guys, Rick and Jim parroting the narrative. Colby getting advice from dad, immature, best for club and all involved yada yada yada. They need to be more informed before they spout off

  14. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    I’m waiting a month…………..

  15. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    This is where I get angry at AP……….. he slums his way down………good throw after the error still gets him………….the potential embarrassment ….avoided…… has him hobbling and grimacing…..and that is all a show…………………how the hell did he miss that pitch anyway…………..

  16. Kansasbirdman says:

    Rick horton says jackson will pitch Friday night. Lohse needing more time to recover? I’ll take credit for the premonition ;-)

  17. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Its like a disease …………. Boggs jogs over………….. we don’t have a player with the sense of Altuve……………. Descalso over swings the whole night…….he isn’t cheated…… Tony uses Theriot second…….to help build his confidence…………. and Tony wants what out of Boggs??????? Jay has started down the path……..he knows it well………. there small guys are short and level…… and we have Skip with surprising power………and Danny with a wonderful follow through…………with a pose on the end..

    • Kansasbirdman says:

      The lack of hustle is the most dissapointing. We are not hungry, feeling a little too entitled? The stros deserve to win with their hustle.

      • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

        AP was flat tonight………..and Yadi was unusually moody at the plate……. wonder whats bothering our boys? Holiday sick…looks like he droped 15 lbs………likes to play this evening……….whats got into him………….????? I wonder…………..

        • Leebo says:

          Dang it Westie you should write the little teasers on the back covers of books and DVDS, sales would skyrocket. But come on dude! enough with the mysterious code, SPELL IT OUT FOR ME MAN!!. I can’t wait any longer.

  18. JumboShrimp says:

    Some co-incidences about this trade. The two principals, Rasmus and Jackson, are from Colombus, GA.
    Rzepcynzki went to U Cal Riverside. The Cards follow Riverside closely, selecting RHP Kelly in the 3rd round in 2009. Also RHP Adam Reifer (on the 40 man roster, though on the DL from a knee injury at Memphis). We could have chosen Rzep during the 2007 draft. He was still available in the 5th round, when we instead chose Cal Poly’s Tom Eager just before Toronto drafted Rzep.
    As a pro, Eager did not achieve much, whereas his college team-mate Norris, now with the Astros, has had success against the Cardinals, like again last night.

  19. STLfan51 says:

    Colby gone – check. Bullpen revamped – check. Lefty reliever – check. Starter added – check. Defense up the middle, situational hitting, executing fundamentals – ??????

    Is it me or does it matter who they add/subtract to the roster if they can’t execute fundamentals? Is this a leadership issue, like lacking a “field general” on the infield? I’d like to know if this drives anyone else mad other than myself. Also is there a fix out there to be traded for or does someone have to “step up”? I don’t see the latter happening or it wouldn’t need to be asked in the first place.

    • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

      Very good questions 51…………… There is an exceptional strain of career specific individualism that permeates this team………………. more so than any I’ve experienced……….. “fundamentals” as you are referring to them, are expected actions directly related to the forwarding of a team agenda or posture. They are advancing competitive leverage from one players influence to the next …..selflessly………. advancing a shared aspiration …………………… you will find many long essays in Brian’s vault …….. many of those Waldo’s are about to enter the scene here………….hair on on fire……….. this is not a progressive group, so you really have to do the leg work yourself…………….

      • STLfan51 says:

        So if I translated that right, and I think I did, it doesn’t matter if that player is out there or not. His leadership will fall on deaf ears or be sqashed before he can influence the team as we know it. If that is true then what a pity. I do sense that TLR teams feel as though everything is “fine”, when it comes time to bear down “we will”. For the purposes of winning and losing thats a pretty fine line to tread on. I also sense that this team will be wanting those games back that were lost due to sloppy play. All the constructing thats gone on will be wasted due to lack of attention to the basics or the lack of team concept. The talent is here now to win. Doing the little things is all thats left to blow away the division and put fear into opponents (which this lineup alone should do).

  20. Bw52 says:

    STLfan-latest rumor i have read is that Cards are looking around for middle infield help.The name that i read was Rafael Furcal of the Dodgers.A younger and cheaper option would be my preference.

    • STLfan51 says:

      Agreed. I just don’t see the positives to doing anything unless it shores up the sloppy play. Does Furcal provide that, the take charge attitude? Is there a younger, cheaper option? Changing the middle infield for the sake of change, imo is wrong. Changing it to get results is the preferred approach. Results that eliminate giving the other team extra outs. Any team will burn you when they get extra outs. This team has put itself in position for a run. I’d hate to see them lose out because of the basics. No starter, reliever is good enough to overcome the 4 out innings that seem to plague them lately.

      • crdswmn says:

        Personally, I don’t think Mo is making any big move to help the middle infield. He will throw stuff out to the media to give the impression that he is, but in the end nothing will happen and Mo will tell everyone “I looked at what was out there and couldn’t find anything that met our needs”.

        • STLfan51 says:

          The needs they have are making the routine plays imo. The guys currently on the roster should be able to do that by now. Are the Jason Bartlett rumors dead?

        • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

          You’re starting to figure this out CRD………………Tony’s attempt at “social work” with Theriot in the last few days isn’t because they want him to be released happy………….. Tony looses flexibility when he has to use Descalso at short……..so he is trying to salvage a brooding Theriot. Tony knows there isn’t any help coming. The adage……….Cards are playing to win NOW……… is a position that Mo will push through the weekend.

          Freese is hobbling…….thats not so good……. Punto is another “misplay” by the medical department..he isn’t headed for third or short……….. Berkman may not have an outfield arm for awhile…… AP isn’t going to be stressed at third anymore……… another reason for “grimacing around”…… We must have run support and defense today…… Garcia is a bit fragile under stress…..

          Lohse gets the day game……….because he needs another days rest??????????? right………..

  21. friendmouse says:

    In my opinion, TLR laid another enigmatic egg last night. I know there is no figuring him out, and I’m really not trying (well, maybe a little), but what was up with his line-up vis-a-vis the batting order?? I can kind of get it that you may not lead off with Theriot, since he’s been struggling. But Skip has been absolutely on fire as of late, and especially leading off. So, let’s put the rookie De-cal in the lead-off spot. Great. He strikes out 3 times. (I REALLY like Danny D, but he’s not a lead-off hitter, is he? He’s a prototypical 6, 7, or 8 hitter in my mind). Okay, so what has J-Jay done for us lately batting in the 2 hole? Just a tad below spectacular, that’s all. So let’s not bat him second. Heck no…numero cinco is the spot for him. How’d that work out? Oh, yeah…I remember…2 whiffs and a pop-up bunt which was a buzz-kill.
    I just think there’s something to be said for letting guys settle in to their spots, and when they’re going good, why stir the porridge? Oh, I know…that’s Tony’s way. Along with the highway.

  22. STLfan51 says:

    Skip with men on 2nd and 3rd and two down, weak grounder to 2nd. Skip with man on 2nd and two down, weak grounder to 2nd. Theriot (in the 2 hole, Jay’s spot) in the ninth 2 on and 1 down, K. Where’s the clutch bat? Oh yeah it’s in Molina’s cubby.

    • WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

      Those weren’t weak grounders 51…………….they were “missed” HR’s……………..

      • STLfan51 says:

        Know your role and knowing is half the battle.

        • friendmouse says:

          I’m just sayin’, had those aforementioned batters been in their familiar “slots,” the game situations would have been completely different, in my opinion. Sure, these guys are professional ball players and they should be completely capable of hitting regardless of their particular slot on a particular night. My point is (partially, at least) why cannot TLR “stick with” something for a while. I’ve heard, over the years, that “knowing your role” (as you so eloquently put it, ’51) IS half the battle, and when you don’t know if your role is to lead off or bat 2nd or 6th from night to night, the battle becomes more difficult. Do we think Pujols is comfortable batting 3rd? Do you think he ever wonders “Hmmm…I wonder where Tony’s gonna have me batting tonight?” Same for Holliday. Even when they “struggle,” their position in the batting order changes not.

          One thing the “different” lineup last night proved, if you want to use “results” as a metric, is that it didn’t work! So, would it be prudent to perhaps “revert” to some of their more “normal” line-ups?

          Hey, baseball is (supposed to be) a fun game. Maybe (likely?) Tony is just having some fun. It’s boring (to him) to trot the same line-up card out there every day, so let’s have some fun and try some experiments. If that’s the case, fine. Winning becomes secondary to fun at that point. And I’m pretty sure winning is much more fun to TLR than playing God with the batting orders?

          • friendmouse says:

            So, let’s go with this and see what happens tonight, Tony:

            Schumaker 9, Jay 8, Pujols 3, Holliday 7, Freese 5, Molina 2, Descalso 6, Punto 4, and J-Gar.

            Good luck.

            • STLfan51 says:

              I agree 100%, the situations I listed last night were evidence of 2 guys put in clutch situations normally held for guys USED to being in those situations. I know by late innings the lineup has turned over but usually TLR always has a big-ish type bat in the 2 hole. Last night he changed it up and the 2 hole got pitches to hit in the ninth and whiffed. Or as …………..-man would say he “missed” home runs.

  23. Kansasbirdman says:

    Well, listening to Tony’s vid above, I will take credit for correctly predicting that Jackson will start Friday and Lohse will be moved to Saturday (since they both pitched on Sunday) with the reason being his finger. I am actually really happy/excited to get to see Jackson pitch tomorrow night in his first outing as a Cardinal. I hope he has a good outing and a good rest of this season and can live up to the potential some have seen in him in the past. Maybe we will see the pen guys we got have an appearance tonight or tomorrow night. I am anxious to see what they can do. Don’t know if Dunc has had enough time to start developing them, imagine it will be awhile before they can implement any changes.

  24. Brian Walton says:

    Thursday lineup: Punto, 2b; Jay, cf; Pujols, 1b; Holliday, lf; Freese, 3b; Laird, c; Theriot, ss; Patterson, rf; Garcia, lhp.

    Raul Valdes optioned out.

  25. blingboy says:

    I see we got outhit 13-6 by the worst team in the league last night. The trade won’t do much about that. At least Tony is replacing 2/3 of the top of the lineup that all went Ofer.

    The lineup, without Berkman and/or Colby in the middle, is a bit soft.

    Haven’t had a chance to listen or read the RC interview, anybody care to relate the details.

  26. Kansasbirdman says:

    Alright Corey patterson. We have some hungry players

  27. Kansasbirdman says:

    Garcia I think is only used to pitching to Molina, where is Yadi?

  28. Kansasbirdman says:

    Dotel wearing the socks BB

  29. Kansasbirdman says:

    Okay, if. Some players end up on the DL, who do we bring up?

  30. Kansasbirdman says:

    When does Allen Craig come back from rehab assignment?

  31. Brian Walton says:

    To keep the related info together, here is a link to an audio interview as Mo spoke with Bernie Miklasz today.

    Several key points. Mo considered Rasmus “a damaged asset” and made it clear that he did not receive better offers. He also acknowledged that TLR has come to him asking for players to be traded away, but he cannot always act.

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