During Friday night’s St. Louis Cardinals telecast, the two first basemen, Albert Pujols of the Cardinals and the home Colorado Rockies’ Todd Helton, were pictured chatting at first base by the FOX Sports Midwest cameras.
Broadcasters Dan McLaughlin and Ricky Horton stepped aside from calling balls and strikes, spending a fair amount of time discussing how much Pujols has admired Helton over the years. Six and a half years older than Pujols, Helton became a full-time major leaguer in 1998. Pujols’ rookie season followed in 2001.
The two stars may have been first and most closely linked in 2003. That season, Pujols won his first National League batting title, edging Helton by the closest margin in league history – just .00022.
The Friday in-game discussion made me think about Helton’s career trajectory and whether Pujols might follow.
One of the most feared hitters in the game in the early half of last decade and a Colorado icon, Helton logged five consecutive All-Star appearances from 2000-04 and picked up four Silver Slugger Awards for hitting excellence from 2000-03.
Before Helton reached free agency, in March 2003, the Rockies gave him a nine-year, $141.5 million contract with the tenth year including a buyout option. The deal covered the 2003-12 seasons, corresponding with Helton’s ages 29-38. It was structured in such a way that his salary would not drop in the later years of the contract.
| Todd Helton | ||||||||
| Year | Age | Games | HR | RBI | Awards | Salary | Multi-year | Renegotiated |
| 1998 | 24 | 152 | 25 | 97 | ROY-2 | $190K | ||
| 1999 | 25 | 159 | 35 | 113 | $750K | 4 yrs/$12M | ||
| 2000 | 26 | 160 | 42 | 147 | AS, SS | $1.3M | ||
| 2001 | 27 | 159 | 49 | 146 | AS, SS | $4.95M | ||
| 2002 | 28 | 156 | 30 | 109 | AS, SS | $5M | ||
| 2003 | 29 | 160 | 33 | 117 | AS, SS | $10.6M | 9 yrs/$141.5M | |
| 2004 | 30 | 154 | 32 | 96 | AS | $11.6M | ||
| 2005 | 31 | 144 | 20 | 79 | $12.6M | |||
| 2006 | 32 | 145 | 15 | 81 | $16.6M | |||
| 2007 | 33 | 154 | 17 | 91 | $16.6M | |||
| 2008 | 34 | 83 | 7 | 29 | $16.6M | |||
| 2009 | 35 | 151 | 15 | 86 | $16.6M | |||
| 2010 | 36 | 118 | 8 | 37 | $16.6M | $10.6M | ||
| 2011 | 37 | $19.1M | $9.6M | |||||
| 2012 | 38 | $23M* | 2 yrs/$9.9M | $4.9M | ||||
| 2013 | 39 | $5M | ||||||
| 2014-23 | 40-49 | $13.1M deferred | ||||||
| * or $4.6M buyout | w/3% interest | |||||||
As the above table clearly indicates, after the first two years of the deal, starting in 2005, Helton’s power and RBI productivity took a considerable nosedive – just when his salary was approaching its highest annual levels. Helton was 31 years of age when his performance dropoff began.
Later, in 2008, Helton missed considerable time due to back problems that have popped up again since. There were also whispers of PED use, vehemently denied, the Colorado altitude and post-humidor effect and other factors one could suggest as excuses/explanations.
Say what you will, but the bottom line was that Helton was no longer an offensive force, but was being paid like one, and would be for years to come.
Though Helton bounced back a bit in 2009, by 2010, the two parties returned to the bargaining table. After four seasons at $16.6 million, his contract was re-negotiated downward to more accurately reflect his reduced contribution.
Helton received a guarantee for 2012 and a 2013 extension, replacing a never-to-be used $23 million option and buyout for 2012. His annual salaries for 2010 and 2011 were reduced by over $15 million in aggregate from the amounts the original deal called for.
However, Helton will recover most of what he gave back in deferred money. He will recoup $13.1 million plus interest during the decade of his 40s.
Perhaps this will enable Helton to remain with the Rockies until his retirement day, an unusual occurrence in today’s free agency-powered game. He is clearly a player whose impact extends beyond the white lines.
What can the St. Louis Cardinals learn from Helton’s story?
Obviously, nine or ten-year contracts are risky. Even if the player isn’t hurt, performance can drop in an unexplainable manner, never to return.
Some players, especially franchise ones, aren’t after getting all the money they can possibly earn – at least at the time. Helton was under no obligation to re-negotiate his contract with at least two seasons to go. Though it didn’t happen right away, his salary was eventually brought into a more reasonable range. That gave his team’s owners more flexibility to pay others. The player spread his earnings over a longer period of time and got two more years tacked onto the end of his deal.
If Pujols’ struggles continue all season long in 2011, might it signal the beginning of the career decline that Helton also experienced in his age 31 season?
Would the Cardinals (or any other club) offer him less in free agency as a result?
Even if Pujols returns to St. Louis and signs the expected mega-deal, what if declined productivity occurs over a long enough period to be considered more than a slump?
Would Pujols later re-negotiate his deal for a lower annual salary? If not, would he at least accept less immediate money?
Of course, no one knows how relevant and real this could become, but it is certainly worth considering.
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IIRC, the adoption of humidors to make the baseballs more normal when used at Denver occured in 2002. In 2000 and 2001, Helton had monster seasons, 42 and 49 HRs, when his homepark was using funny balls. After the humidors, he came down to earth the next three years to 31.5 dingers per annum. After age 32, Helton has looked “post-prime” and not seemed to compensate by reliance on PEDs.
It is not impossible Pujols is a year or two older than listed, because common for amateurs to shave a year or two off their ages. If so, its not impossible Pujols could be declining on a timeline comparable to Helton’s, though Albert erodes from a higher base, since a better hitter.
Time erodes every player (and fan). It would be surprising if Pujols did not fall back a little, after so many years of remarkably outstanding performance.
Helton got a long term deal paying him big bucks during the downslope of his career. Good for him, he didn’t make big bucks during his prime years. He hasn’t been worth the big bucks of course.
Helton basically is paying the Rockies in order to play for them a couple of extra years. Would Albert be willing to do that?
Brian, do you still feel Pujols had nothing to lose by waiting and becoming a free agent?
The first two months have been worse than anyone predicted. If the last four are similar, then no, he did have something to lose.
Another jolly win in the rubber match, on their turf. Lohse continues a splendid season. The Cards return to 10 games over .500. Craig more playing time at 2B. Let’s take care of the Busterless Giants next.
What’s is LaRussa thinking when he replaces Craig with Greene and then replaces Greene with Skip when Greene comes up to bat? Is he acknowledging that Skip is weak defensively? Is it really worth wasting the extra player (since Greene is hitting almost as well as Skip)? I just dont get it.
Carioca, you missed one of the 2nd basemen. In the 9th, Pete Kozma played 2B. Lets try to figure it out. Craig started and got his 3 at bats. Craig is the best hitter.
Craig got replaced by Greene as a runner, Greene being the speediest on the team. TLR is also showing he thinks Greene is the better defender versus Craig.
Next time up, TLR pinch-hits Skip for Tyler, probably for a better matchup against an RHP. Kozma replaced Skip when Sanchez was taken out, and batted in the 9th, so the double switch in the 8th allowed Salas to pitch more than 1 inning.
Skip may be less than 100 percent. It would seem efficient to replace Craig with Skip.
I wondered as well, CC. The lead was only three runs. I would have wanted to either get a bigger lead before taking Craig out or would keep him in the game for his bat.
As soon as Craig got his hit in the sixth, nutlaw correctly predicted the pinch runner would immediately sprint out from the dugout.
In a close game like this you really rely on you big money star to make the difference. We never could have pulled it out without Albert’s contribution.
Humidor balls sink a bit more……..helps the change up dip a bit also………
It does appear that Colby made a few meaningful adjustments…………thats good.
something just screams frank thomas to me when it comes to albert pujols. maybe i’m not the only one on that.
Thomas was reasonably productive even in his age 39 season, though he had a lot of injuries in his 30′s that zapped his earlier consistency.
Pujols has had one of the most remarkable runs in baseball history, 10 years of sustained excellence, with 3 MVPs and 4 times runner up, averaging 40 HRs per year, high batting average, low strikeout rate. A much better hitter than Todd Helton.
This year, its probable something is sore. Maybe hamstring, back, or shoulder. Albert can play through it, as he always plays through aches and pains without complaining, but until the soreness lessens, its crimping his output.
Or not.
In 1967, Gibson suffered a broken tibia from being struck by a line drive. At the time, it was hard to believe Gibson was mortal and something like this could happen to Him. At least in this instance there was the clarity of cause and effect, a line drive and a broken bone. With Pujols, since there is not a broken bone, he keeps soldiering on.
Part of the issue this season with Pujols is expectations. He has been so outstanding for so long, fans are accustomed to believe he is super-human and other-worldly.
However, newsflash, Pujols is a mere mortal. One season Albert even had to go on the DL for two weeks, just like a normal person. He can suffer a physical limitation, just like any other more normal player routinely experiences during the course of a long season or a long career.
I think most of us would agree that Pujols has a lot financially on the table currently. If he is injured this season, Pujols would be foolish to purposely undermine his bargaining power by not admitting his injury, hiding it from potential bidders who would be relieved to understand why his performance has dropped off so markedly.
Further, why would he risk his ongoing health by not seeking treatment from the Cardinals medical staff? If it was more than normal aches and pains and an ongoing situation known by the team, we would have learned about it by now.
The storyline, while offering a tidy explanation for a perplexing situation, does not hold water for me.
Pujols has gone on the DL what, once, during his first 10 seasons? Albert is hardworking. Its nice to celebrate this on Memorial Day. Pujols is a true soldier.
Another indicator of his strong will to compete is stealing some bases, which he has done for years. A lot of other unspeedy sluggers do not bother to steal bases, but Pujols has stolen bases, done something above and beyond the call of duty.
It has long been suspected Pujols has a damaged elbow ligament. Some athletes might have packed it in for a year and gotten a Tommy John operation. Taking a year off for this reason would have no financial downside, since Pujols would have still collected full salary. It might even strengthen Albert’s appeal in free agency if his elbow had already been fully fixed, so there is less risk of needing an operation during the course of his next contract.
Pujols reminds me of Bob Gibson. Tough, driven, determined, proud about how he plays the game hard. Difficult for TLR to get Pujols to leave the lineup for a few days per year. If Pujols has sore muscles or other problems, traditionally, the Cards do not reveal much. Chris Duncan played one spring and into July with a damaged vertebrae, but TLR did not disclose this to the press. Lohse pitched for a year with a problem where he got hit, before they finally got him a helpful operation. Many play at less than 100 percent.
TLR and Albert are warriors from the old school. Albert is not going to start blabbing to the press about how he feels and making excuses. He would lose face, within the fraternity of baseball.
On Memorial Day, Semper Fi, Albert!
Brian states “most of us would agree Pujols has a lot financially on the table currently.” This is his storyline. Everything is to be viewed through the prism of future free agency.
“If he is injured….Pujols would be foolish to purposely undermine his bargaining power by not admitting his injury, hiding it from potential bidders….” But this makes no sense. Pujols is under contract right now to the Cardinals. They are his employer. He has no obligation to reveal his health to “bidders.” There are none who can admit they even plan to be bidders after the season, lest they be fined by Bud Selig. So why should Pujols blab about how he feels to non-existant bidders? He has a contract to fulfill right now.
“Why would he risk his ongoing health by not seeking treatment from the Cards med staff?” 1. Why did Dave Duncan’s son risk his health and wind up in a broadcast booth?
2. Pujols could have a safely playable injury like a sore hamstring or back or shoulder. This could rob him of some hitting ability and force him to use a new swing, but its still playable. In 2010, Kyle Lohse tried to keep pitching through his forearm problem. He was so ineffective, Boras got him more medical attention and an operation. Just because a man is in uniform, it does not mean he is 100 percent.
All around baseball, it must be known Pujols is not quite right, at present. But this does not mean it has anything to do with his next contract negotiation.
Looks like I’ve missed some good games. Lots of runs scored. The little one is not on the Cards game schedule yet. He is most active from 1 to 5 a.m. Good tthing I can catch up on sportscenter and sometimes the replay on Fx sports midwest. I would agree with Brian that if there were an actual injury it would be disclosed, it seems like TLR is on tthe Albert side of the negotiations. Wouldn’t he be checked out anyway before any team signs him to a deal? Its gonna come out at some point. I am actually with westie wondering why he holds the bat more parrallel to the ground instead of straight up and down like in previous years. Why mess with what has worked?
The new bat position creates a longer stroke. So maybe he is having trouble generating bat speed and the longer stroke might help. Or maybe he thinks the longer stroke would give him an extra fraction to see it and center it. The slightly longer time to get the bat head into the zone would help with being able to hit to opposite field, which he’s been doing more than in the past.
He doesn’t seem to have adjusted to it so far. The alternative would be to go back to the old bat position and live with the bat speed issue. If that’s what it is, I mean. Just guessing.
It is correctly labeled……..Reductive Symmetry, BB……… by me…… This is the expansion of perceptual analogies/realities………in such a way that it includes the conjunction of many variable…..allowing for each variables orderly recognition…………… much like the observable and “predictable” formulaic speculation in organic chemistry……………..Done in harmony, it allows each element a free and attractive placement in an organic chain of molecules…………………. the function of the whole no less, or more relevant than the function and placement of the smallest parts…………… all illuminating the laws and consequences of a “shared field” of possibilities.
Using the functional macro/microscopic telescoping function of these perceptual chains…….. allows you to be aware of many of the events surround this “organization” state of awareness……… the relevance of said state being to “delight” the illusions of immortality………
More simply……….. you’ve been given all of this stuff about Albert for a long time. The ability/inability to articulate this, is an indication of an interruption of the harmony of the field of possibilities………..for a need to apply or more likely deny your own personal need for the “opiate” of limited perceptual boundaries… and/or confinements…………the architecture of religious sanctuaries are made/built of these utilitarian strands of “ego illuminating” concepts…………..
Like this one…………………………….. lets talk about whats happening……..not whats “not happening” for reasons we all should all be aware of right now…………. For instance………Tony didn’t go to the mound and work with Garcia on the realignment of his self esteem…on television……for no reason…
was he right?…..was this necessary?………………….. Tony pulled Lohse very decisively……at just the right time…..and I feel, managed a win because of his handling of this issue and his BP, in what I feel was a very important win for this team………all in the face of a deteriorating situation on the AP front.
I see that as a step closer to the character that will be needed to move forward as a coach…… not simply as an advocate of AP’s personal “career agenda”…………. a sign Tony is recovering?
I’ve already popped a couple cold ones Westy, so I’ll have to read this one later.
Wise decision BB………….. its just a bit outside.
A wild pitch if I’ve ever seen one!
Did the Cards tell Brian that Albert needed a nerve in his arm repositioned, before the operation was announced? I do not recall it.
Pujols is what is called “playable.” Albert said something like this himself the other day, if he is playing, he must be ok. A nice note of irony.
Playable means you are less than 100 percent, but they do not think you will make things worse by playing with the problem, so you keep playing. Scott Rolen and Brian Jordan got mad, because they decided later that they should not have been playing, in the case of their problems.
Jim Edmonds was a playable guy. After some of his later seasons, Jim had operations on each shoulder to “clean it up” and he had some kind of operation on each foot, because they hurt when he was running around CF. These kinds of operations tend to be performed right after the season. They are maintenance operations that are scheduled for least effect on playing time.
When Larry Walker was winding down his career in 2005, he took cortisone shots for his bulging neck disk. This was known at the time. The relevance is that TLR is good at extolling warriors who play through pain. Pujols could easily have a nagging physical problem and if he and TLR do not care to talk about it, then it will not be discussed.
This is for you BB
Brendan Ryan has been moved to the #2 spot in the Mariners lineup today, replacing Chone Figgins, who was moved to the #8 spot.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/4128/brendan-ryan
Its too bad we can’t trade with Mo so maybe we could get a good hitting gold glove SS for nothing.
Brendan’s resurgence has been brought up on several Cardinals sites and I didn’t realize how virulent some of the hatred is for him. Some really nasty things are being said about the guy. I would really like to know what he did that caused this. Did he sleep with someone’s wife? I don’t get it.
I believe most knowledgable baseball people felt that Brendan would do much better this year after having a year to allow the wrist to heal and strengthen. Having spoke with him I can tell you he is much happier today where he is at. The cardinals are happier that he is where he is at as well so all is well with the world.
Yes, I know that. And I accept it. Doesn’t make me like the crappy things being said any better though.
Its one thing I have learned about the cardinal fans………They hold every player up to some sort of ungodly standard. Most times it seems unfair but it is what it is.
I realized this many years ago and felt it would be a better fit for Colby to be somewhere else. He plays the game at a different speed if allowed to play the game like it is a game, and TLR wants a more professional approach. When the reigns are pulled back on him he plays like he is a zombie. I watch Colby play today and it makes me cringe many times because he plays trying to over think every play and play to not make a mistake. And the fans pick up on this and absolutely BBQ his ass because of it. And rightly so imo. No matter what he does he will never be Jim Edmonds in CF. Colby will never be as good an offensive player as Albert was his first 10 years in the league. Its basically a no win situation.
Thankfully he understands this and knows he probably needs to move on to a different venue where he can get a clean start. Much like Jimmy did when he left the Angels. Jimmy has even told Colby as much. At your next stop you won’t have to deal with the fans continually holding your growing up in the major leagues against you. St. Louis fans will never forget your mistakes that were made as you entered the league. This was great stuff to hear because it let Colby know there was a light at the end of the end of the tunnel.
I wrote all that to write this. Brendan was in a similar situation but Brendan failed to even try to make the adjustments to tone down his game to a more thought out type of approach. Brendan played balls to the wall 24/7. That leads to mistakes at times and to an aggravated manager and older teammates, who are also clones of TLR, as far as style of play goes. I made the statement a few years back that Brendan needed to be somewhere else to truely be at peace playing the game because he would never get it here in st. louis. Brendan is allowed more rope in Seattle and you can see his game starting to pick up because of it. Brendan would tell you he wanted to stay in St. Louis early on but now will tell you he didn’t realize how suffocating it was in St. Louis.
That doesn’t mean the fans are wrong or the manager is wrong. It is just the situation that it is and sometimes everyone is better off by going their separate ways. In this case Brendan is much better. Cardinal fans will just continue to dog him as a cancer along with being every other reason the cardinals did not win last year. Colby will be thought of when he leaves as the lazy jd drew type of player who wasn’t good in the OF, K’d too much, and had a rag arm.
HE will miraculously find his way after landing somewhere else. It will be said that it was just his finally getting it. Like Brendan is doing right now.
I can’t argue with any of that. I read exactly those types of comments on blogs and message boards every day from Cardinals fans. I can only say that there are Cardinals fans like me who don’t have those kind of expectations and do understand that every player is different and needs to be allowed to play his own game, as long as it works for him. I can’t change the narrow minds of those Cardinal fans you speak of. They are so used to winning that they can’t handle less than perfection. I can deal with criticism of playing, even if it is unfounded. It is the unnecessary name calling and brutal character assassination that goes on. Criticizing a player for his performance is one thing. Mocking him for his hairstyle or manner of speaking or personality is another.
I will add that Cardinal fans are not alone in thinking this way. I like to go to sites of other teams we play and see how their fans react to losing. I see similar type comments on most other teams sites as well. Some teams fans are worse than others.
Brendan’s offensive production last year was poor. That is a fact and is fair game for critcism. His recent hot streak may be temporary. Hopefully it isn’t. It doesn’t surprise me that fans are dubious that it means anything. I don’t see how his personality foibles or any alleged issues in the clubhouse last year are relevant this year though unless they carry over to this year. All indications are that he is not a problem in Seattle, but is well liked by his teammates and his manager. Cardinals fans attacks on him now are just petty and hateful, imo.
As for Colby, I wish things were different for him. He has a bright future and I would like it to be with the Cardinals. If it isn’t then I understand why. But I don’t have to like it and when given the opportunity I am going to say so.
Albert muffs………………doesn’t chase the deflected ball………..next play the DP doesn’t fly…AP aborting the attempt in a display of disdain, squaring off and assuming the Craig throw will be junk ………… and then Kmac shows his concern with a tantrum overthrow………. needing to be quieted by Molina…………..I smell a fuse burning…………
Albert is grinding gears………..single and the lead never even crossed his mind………… the injury is coming.
A kid like Kmac doesn’t need “turbulence”……………… there is one sign of his struggle on the board……… the Giants are struggling……but if we put our own blood in the water, they will wake up….
We need Berkman /Colby to wake this thing up………….
Hopefully Albert will get on ahead of the boppers.
Brian is to be saluted for raising an interesting question that some others may shy away from: how long a deal should the Cards (or any other team) offer Pujols after this season? This is a legitmate question. Prospective bidders, including the Cards, will need to form opinions about Pujols’ outlook for the years ahead. Is he going to ebb down to another Todd Helton? Or could Albert’s future years look like those of Frank Thomas, who had some outstanding seasons during his late 30s.
Some assume a player in his walk year will rev it up a notch and perform better. I am not sure there is a lot of data to support that players commonly perform better in the final years of contracts, but it is a common expectation among fans.
When a guy declines in his walk year, however, this can be feared to be the onset of continued decline.
A lot will hinge on the interpretations teams put on Pujols’ 2011, if he does not improve. If they think he was “scared” of free agency, then it stands to reason he will be unscared with a new contract and be right as rain, next year, happy with a new contract.
But free agency is commonplace, as basic as strikes and balls. Baseball insiders are unlikely to imagine Albert’s pending free agency has any impact on his play. Prospective bidders will want to hear his agent’s views about why he slumped in 2011. If there were physical problems, they will want to know what these are and how they can be overcome in future.
Prospective bidders will want to hear his agent’s views about why he slumped in 2011……………
There are no prospective bidder Jumbo……………….. this has all been decided………. his next team will already have made the commitment to a price………. if its the Cardinals all along, they will be paying whatever it takes to maintain his marketability………….the league won’t allow whom ever to dog meat the guy……. someone will pay 25 million for at least 5 years……..even at his current rate of decline………he is/has been a cog in a marketing campaign for a long time. He has value…..
he just sobered up and took the Rbi……….. nothing wrong with him if he just starts playing ball….theres a steal with two outs……of 3rd base……….with Holiday at the plate……see……..he’s got it together.
Holiday is hurt……….jay is hot…….is he in there just to help take the pressure (spotlight) off of AP????????? Kmac is just aiming the ball at this point………is there a pen?
Its Ryan Franklin time.
Kmac was so concerned his record and ERA were going to left out in open like Garcia………he panicked……….and brought it upon himself…….. these events Will Have repercussions……
Contributing factors………………. AP’s displays……….Holiday being pressed, to cover for the failing AP………..and the Craig defensive liability is creating a constant “mental” challenge to the starters,,,,,, …….. to make up for the lost productivity of AP……… they depend on the “possible” DP all the time..even as an illusion for tactical focus…………
I wonder what the key element is??????????????
There is a silver lining though…………… Chris Carpenter will respond to this environment……… he will need to hold them to 2 runs……..but that could be a win…Voglesong is tough………Garcia might respond against Sanchez………that could give us a split………….. we are in danger of a sweep here though…..a very real danger.
Looks like Tony doesn’t mind throwing Mott for a couple today…………
looks like Batista……….my bad………
The world champs have been struggling at the plate…………. nice of us to pitch with so much unearned respect……….. look at how they are just watching the Cardinal pitcher………hey, throw me a strike they’re saying…………. these guys can pitch…….. if we don’t focus……Brewers will take over first.
But hey……we’ll chase a pitch for you…………..if they won’t………
BumG takes a big breath as he walks off……… he’s thinking……..I didn’t know my stuff was that sharp………………………………….it ain’t buddy, we’re the guessing Cardinals……and we’re in the mood.
Jumbo, regarding your earlier unsupported contention that third base is a harder position to play than second base, consider this quote from Jim Callis, editor of BA. The subject is moving Zack Cox off third.
“Some didn’t think he was quick enough over there to stay; others thought he’d work hard enough to become average,” Callis said. “(But) that’s probably the easiest position to work yourself into an average defender if you have some basic tools.
“There was some talk some teams might try him at second base, which I never understood,” Callis added. “If you don’t think he’s quick enough for third base, how can he be quick enough for second?”
http://www.news-leader.com/article/20110529/SPORTS02/105290434/No-cutting-corners-hot-corner
These factors cannot be measured by simple error counts and fielding percentage.
Just curious………….why do any of you think that trying to fabricate defensive positions for supposed “offensive threats” is even a plausible approach………………. are these poor draft choices? Do they reflect on any plausible recognition of players with a superior depth chart status……..???? We don’t have a SS…………Cards over valued Theriot to make him look more important in their business plan………. Shumaker is gone at second…….Freese cannot show he has any future at all as a 3rd baseman……… the latest injury just another in a long sequence……….. Descalso I like……..he won’t sell a ticket…… he will never be first on the Chart………..Greene??????? Kosma??????????
Pujols got the Tball pitch……and stayed on it…..barely…….. Holiday, Berkman no response……Colby? If AP progresses just enough to start swaggering the bases as he just did…….do these guys respond? Before the season, I said that that was the death of the season…….lets see.
My opinion was supported, coincidentally, the next day by TLR who explained why he put Craig at 2B. TLR said a routine play at 2B is easier than a routine play at 3B or SS.
Jumbo, you did not respond when asked about non-routine plays.
I am delighted finding Tony, Pettini, and I are in agreement.
I had seen the comment from Callis, who is in my opinion thoughtful. But I am not sure it is germane to this context.
Zach Cox has the arm and hands to play 3B. Some scouts mentioned Cox moving to 2B because they wondered if he would drive the ball enough for a typical 3B. Callis may have misunderstood why Cox was mentioned for 2B, assuming it owed to defense rather than hitting.
Descalso’s light bat is best suited to 2B. Defensively, he can handle either spot.
Craig does not have the arm to defend 3B on a regular basis. He has soft hands and his arm is sufficient for 2B. If he can turn double plays well enough, then TLR loves his offense at 2B. TLR will not play Craig at 3B, but he is considering him as a regular at 2B.
The saber crowd has done considerable comparative analysis of positions using UZR. Tom Tango started by ranking 2B and 3B even:
+1.0 C
+0.5 SS/CF
+0.0 2B/3B
-0.5 LF/RF
-1.0 1B
-2.0 DH
Following considerable discussion afterward, he concluded the thread by declaring that “2B may be more in the CF class” (making it a more difficult position than 3B).
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/S=7afe1d1006ab53a279d8cfcfbb41cda87b442187/site/comments/fielding_differences_in_the_positions/
Do you think C is rated higher than SS/CF because of the wear and tear on the body? It seems to me that outside that, SS/CF would be more difficult because of the incredible amount of range those positions require.
Just because the degree of difficulty of playing 2B and 3B is close to equal does not mean that the same skill set is ideal for both. Since a somewhat different skill set is best for one or the other it follows that some players would be better at 2nd than 3rd, and some players vice versa.
Jumbo said:
“Did the Cards tell Brian that Albert needed a nerve in his arm repositioned, before the operation was announced? I do not recall it.”
In Sept 2008, there was considerable public consternation over Pujols’ elbow. A thinned UCL was among the problems mentioned. His 2008 season ended a few days early when an MRI was scheduled (and the Cards were out of contention). On Oct 13, Pujols’ nerve surgery was announced. The specific procedure may not have been expected, but the ongoing disclosure there was a problem had been well documented in advance.
Ok, just to clarify, any injury to a member of the team is fully known to the press? It would be impossible for Pujols or any other player to suffer a physical impingement and for members of the press not to be fully briefed by Tony?
I wouldn’t fail to remind Jumbo that Alberts elbow issues/questions, were resolved by Lozano and himself for his own purposes………….. in hindsight, it should be obvious to most that a surgery or the prospect there of, requested by the Cardinals………would have changed his 2010 season ….and his entire bargaining position pre 2011……………….. you guys are not even in this thing………I’m taking another week off………. the Giants are struggling, they needed a chump…….. their lefties have been weak……….but we love them……..if Tony doesn’t back up the rotation with defense, and also get some offense going from there……..we are in second place by the weekend……… but Albert likely is enjoying a brief resurgence all his own……. by a team that might make an offer……….thats all they showed on their pre-game was Albert glad handing all their players………………..