I am having a case of déjà vu – St. Louis Cardinals spring training déjà vu.
Based on a combination of factors, including untimely surgery for Nick Punto and a long recovery for oft-injured David Freese, third baseman Matt Carpenter has received more playing time than expected in the first ten games of spring training.
The non-roster invitee, yet to play even a single regular-season game at the Triple-A level, has delivered in the early going. Carpenter has tallied a hit in the last seven games in which he has played. Carpenter is batting a team leading .455 (10-for-22), with two doublse and two triples and is tied for second on the club with six RBI.
It is not as if this is a fluke. Carpenter has a pedigree as a very good player. After all, based on his 2010 season with Double-A Springfield, he was named both The Cardinal Nation Player of the Year and later, the Cardinals followed with their top award as well.
As a result, a group of excited fans are not only penciling Carpenter onto the Cardinals opening day roster – a major feat in itself – some are leaping into projecting him as a platoon partner for Freese. Due to ongoing ankle concerns, Freese is expected to play only two of every three games in 2011 even if he can remain off the disabled list.
With roughly two-thirds of spring training ahead, all I can think of is this: “What would Tony do?”
We have no way of knowing if the manager:
a) Will value another third baseman more than a utility player.
b) Will prefer the biggest/hottest bat he can find.
c) Will want major league experience given a bench that is already projected to include youngsters Tyler Greene, Allen Craig and Jon Jay.
While we don’t know what he WILL do, we know what he will NOT do. The manager will not declare winners for any open jobs at this early juncture.
If you have any doubt, just go back two years ago. Freese would make his first opening day roster, but before that could happen, he had to be recalled from minor league camp. He had sent out in early March because of a slow recovery from foot injuries suffered in an automobile accident over the winter.
While that was clearly an unusual situation, there are other players in competition to cover for Punto besides Carpenter.
Another non-roster infielder has received nearly as many spring plate appearances as Carpenter so far, though he hasn’t done nearly as much with them. Along with Greene and Daniel Descalso, the group is likely competing for two reserve infield roster spots to open the season. It would likely drop to one job as soon as Punto is ready, perhaps as much as two months into the season.
Who is this other NRI infielder?
Hardly an exciting name, the left-handed hitter will celebrate his 35th birthday before the regular season opens. The native of Puerto Rico is well-traveled, having played for six different major league clubs, most recently the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Vazquez has also bounced around the minors as well and in fact didn’t have a single at bat in the majors last season. His career MLB average is .254, but in his last big league action, he batted just .230 for the 2009 Bucs.
He does offer infield versatility and steady defense such as Punto was signed to provide. Vazquez has logged between 165 and 275 major league games at second base, shortstop and third base.
Vazquez has started this spring slowly, at 2-for-16 (.125) with a single and a double though he has also walked three times.
So where’s the déjà vu, you ask?
Back in 2005, another generally anonymous utility infielder who also had previously been discarded by the Pirates, Abraham Nunez, made the Cardinals out of camp as an NRI. The primary assets of the Dominican Republic native were his ability to play three infield positions and switch hit.
Nunez has the same defensive profile as Vazquez, with from between 258 and 293 major league contests at each of the positions of second, short and third. His career batting average when invited to 2005 spring training was an uninspiring .238 and in 2004, he also batted exactly .238 for the Bucs.
In other words, Nunez hardly came into Cardinals camp on a high note.
He batted a surprising .315 that spring, beating out former phenom-for-a-month Bo Hart and ex-major leaguer Wilton Guerrero among others and joined Hector Luna as infield reserves to open the 2005 season.
It wasn’t long after having made the team before Nunez was thrust into the spotlight. When starting third baseman Scott Rolen went down due to injury, large segments of the Cardinal Nation cursed their luck as well as the choice of the man to step in for the star third sacker, who was coming off his MV3 season of 2004.
Nunez ended up receiving 467 plate appearances in 2005. He delivered solid defense and career-bests in nearly every offensive category. A .285 batting average, five home runs and 44 RBI were among his highlights.
In 2006, he translated that into a nice, two-year deal with Philadelphia, where he promptly reverted to the pre-Cardinals Nunez. He is now a baseball vagabond, but that isn’t the point.
I have always believed that one can look back at the Cardinals past and gain insight into what might happen in the future.
Don’t get me wrong.
I am not throwing water on the candidacies of Greene, Descalso and Carpenter. Further, I am not predicting Vazquez will make the 2011 Cardinals, let alone suggesting he will pull a 2005-vintage Nunez season out of his cap.
On the other hand, at this point of the spring, I am not yet discounting Vazquez’ chances of getting hot and at least coming north with the team, either.
Wherever he is now, I bet Abe Nunez agrees.
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Going with the veteran theory to compliment the youth on the bench. I see the comparisons you make and understand how you drew them, though I think the Matt Carpenter fan club might shun you. Carpenter on the bench while currently the sexy move, would put us right back where we were last season: Young, though not so inexperienced, so….it has the potential to be different.
Yeah, I’m more comfortable with the bench this year, well, their youth I mean. Jay, Craig have a body of work under their belts that’s semi respectable. Jay proved at least a good PH, and capable of putting together a decent stretch of XBH, and Craig started showing his stuff toward the end of the year. And granted he HIT the ball hard before that, unfortunately right at Leather. Now let’s see what Descalso and Greene can do, I would say this is make or break for Greene, while Descalso has some time still.
Carpenter has come in to play RF in relief of Craig today, so he is getting a chance to work on point a) above.
Tony knows Craig is in trouble. He’s the trade bait.
WestCoast, I’ve seen you mention that a few times in the past few days. Do you have any basis for this, a story that broke? Or is just a hunch?
Anyways, Carpenter quickly made an error in RF, though I don’t know if it was a hard to handle ball or not.
No, the error was a pretty routine play. It was a shot past Hamilton that didn’t come up, but by the time it got to Carpenter, he should have handled it cleanly. He bobbled the ball, but almost recovered with a strong throw into second that the runner just beat. A run scored as well.
He’s not a RFer………. Tony is campaigning to make a point Mo/BD. I doubt he was looking for an error. Tony knows what they will likely do……..he was trying to show the MC could play that as well as Craig. He wants the kid……….he knows how they will want to use him.
That could be, or it could be as simplistic as the KID has earned AB’s, why not try him in different scenarios. Right now, I’d say Matt Carpenter is more trade bait than Craig. You have log jam almost at 3B with Freese, Carpenter and Z. Cox for the next 2-3 years. Quite a few want to put Cox at 2B, but that hasn’t happened yet, I don’t think.
I’m only using history one that one, 10 years ago, there was no Room for a hot hitting rookie and he was rumored to “trade bait”, until Bobby Bo. went down with injury. There’s no room for Carpenter at the MLB level. Thankfully, there is room at AAA. And we need insurance at 3B.
If plausibility makes you comfortable, and that seems plausible, enjoy. No one else needs an at bat? Right in the face of a struggling Craig? There is an element of aggression in that. The show business aspects of that are aimed at the show business moguls……..Mo/BD….. I’m only pointing it out because I expected that move……….any demotion of Craig seriously maims his value. That doesn’t bother Tony…….it bothers the bankroll boys.
Clever play…but I missed where he was struggling. I know he had a hamstring injury a day or two ago, or tightness in said hamstring, then he slid awkwardly today going towards a ball in the outfield (according to Brian). Basically, WestCoast, I’m really just trying to gain info, because I have either missed something entirely, or you are just guessing, pretty much like I am. Maybe you are reaching for a rabbit in a hat and there isn’t one there. Of course, that’s all plausible if you want it to be
. It may be unfolding before my eyes like you are saying, but I’m just not seeing it. Kudos to you if it happens that way .
What is info anyway?????? The world is a playground filled with rabbits. You don’t need a hat.
“info” is me trying to understand you, I have trouble understanding you. So, I ask questions to gather said “info”. It doesn’t matter, I guess, I’ll still engage you in baseball convos, but beware, I’ll still ask questions, most likely
T8Ball-i like the fact that M. Carpenter is getting a chance to play.I hope that he shows enough to stick with the big leaguers (alongshot unless MC completely dazzles and makes it nearly impossible to demote him).The question is will Vazquez go to AAA if Carpenter makes the roster? If MC does make the roster he should get enough ABs to continue to develop since Freese won`t be available everyday.That way MC could get around 15 or so ABs evert week and not just get rusty on the bench.AAS for having a logjam at 3B in the next few years that sure beats not having enough.MC and Freese both have 1B experience also.IMO Cards should think a bit ahead and use MC instead of Vazquez.Just my opinion.Greene can be the backup at 2B and SS.
I agree, excellent problem to have. I just don’t see MC (like that, better than having to spell out his name because we already have a Carp on the team) making the team, unless he can play 2B also. Having two 3B makes little sense. If Carp makes the team, then you trade Freese. Can’t rely on only Tyler Greene to back up 2B and SS.
TBall-if Cards keep 11 or 12 pitchers that will also decide how many backups are kept.Who knows how it will end up.
I would give 50:1 odds on their being 13 position players and 12 pitchers to start the season, just as about every other year since TLR became manager.
It sounded like Craig didn’t shine in right either. Cabrera’s ball got over his head ultimatly leading to two runs. According to Shannon on the play-by-play, he should have been playing deeper with Cabrera up and the wind blowing out. Even so, he could have and should have made the catch according to both guys in the booth.
He partially made up for it by walking ahead of Albert (who then GIDP) in the bottom of the inning.
I watched the play and Craig did get turned around, but the ball was smoked and was slicing toward the line. If Craig was not positioned properly, that should be on Dave McKay as well – unless Craig ignored him, which would be a different problem, entirely…
Appreciate the eyewitness info.
Did it look like our pichers were getting squeezed or did they just stink? 14 BBs!
Hard to tell from the press box, but Shannon clearly thought so.
The way I keep playing any “trade scenario” in my head is if Freese’s health holds up and we are in striking distance in the Central, and the Cards want to go with Carpenter at 3B. That would make Freese’s stock goes up and it will save a little bit of money with next season being his first Arbitration year (I think it will be, I don’t know how it breaks down if you miss nearly 5months of 6 of season 1 and 3 months of season 2. That’s how I see it. Craig, to me is insurance for RF/1B next season. Freese would be the “trade bait”, but not until June.
1.028 through 2010, 2013 as earliest arb eligible *possible*
……………………………………………………..????????????????????????????????????????????
That would make Freese’s stock goes up and it will save a little bit of money with next season …
Say what…………….. where does this come from? Save money for what…….. I wish I could say I didn’t understand this phenomena………………….but I do. This is a fantasy negotiation isn’t it? A game.
BinP……… so we can sign Godzilla……….because that works? Theme of the day………
My prediction…………… The Central….and the rest of the NL ……is going to starve AP to death. He can play baseball…….take the walks…….and be the most feared player since Bonds……..or he can “press”…………. leading the Cardinals to a 10/15 game funeral by the break. He can probably gather his normal statistic from that position, as we will be playing from behind every game. Which do you think he takes…………?
“so we can sign Godzilla……….because that works? Theme of the day………”
is there a decoder manual available to decipher that babble? i’ll just pass until you are sober.
As much as I like the idea of MC being backup 3B there is no way TLR is going to bypass a vet for a minor leaguer.
Brian, probably a better question for yesterday’s article (but I was too busy yesterday and didn’t get a chance to catch up) … How does the Cardinals farm system rate -in number of players -against some of the other teams in MLB? And a question perhaps for the group- does having a larger number of farm players benefit the ML team?
Before they shut down in the VSL, the Cardinals were one of only four organizations with nine affiliates. All the others have either seven or eight.
Walters’ stock has really plummeted. I’m wondering what his future holds.
The other thing to wonder about is how McClellan will fare the third time through major league lineups. So far this spring he’s done what he’s already done, so we really don’t know any more than we knew. As we get into the last couple weeks of ST he will be stretched out more and will tend to face more regulars. Then we will know something.
Abe Nunez was circa 30, IIRC, and produced career highs.
Vasquez may be a little bit more like Pedro Feliz: post-peak.
Why I think Matt Carpenter will make the team:
1. The Cards know Freese can only play on a limited basis. They need two third basemen. Freese and Carpenter can platoon.
2. Carpenter is getting a lot more play at 3B than Allen Craig, because the former is a better fielder.
3. MC is a year older than Descalso. He is not a baby. TLR can throw him into the battle.
4. Giving play to Carpenter invests in the future, Vasquez is yesterday’s hero.
5. Carpenter is a good news story for the fans.
Good to know experience isn’t important and thus Colby is still a “baby”.
Why I think Matt Carpenter won’t make the team.
1. Not on the 40 man roster and doesn’t need to be for several years. Vasquez would also require the removal of a player from the 40 man roster but it would only be temporary (this year at max or possibly off sooner if he gets cut.) while Carpenter would muck up the roster possibly unnecessarily for several years.
2. If Cards really think he is going to be an all star or even an everyday regular, they wont want to start his arb/FA clock unless necessary
3. a platoon doesnt work since it would give Carpenter 75% of the bats over Freese.
4. The Cards have other options for the 2/3 of the games Freese doesn’t play – Greene, Craig, Descalso/Vasquez – those guys are going to need playing time anyway.
6.Carpenter needs to play everyday at this point (less than 800 minor league AB’s – none of above AA) Albert proved that can be done but there aren’t many Albert’s.
5. Carpenter can always be brought up later. Possibly a better idea as it could provide a necessary boost mid-season. No reason not to wait and see if others can handle the job.
1. We started Cox on a ML contract, so we can accelerate Carpenter too. ML teams live in the now. If MC can help in April 2011, room will be found. For instance, trade Bryan Anderson.
2. Unpersuasive
3. Freese is an invalid. Its fine if MC gets 75 percent of the at bats. TLR can still call Freese the regular, if he wants to.
4. Descalso and Valquez are going to be at AAA. Carpenter is better than Craig on defense and that matters to TLR.
6. Carpenter will be fine with 300 to 400 ML at bats.
5. TLR likes to get out of the gate fast in April and May.
Why I agree Matt Carpenter won’t make the team
1. It will confuse Al Hrabosky and Dan McLaughlin to have two players on the team named Carpenter.
2.Vasquez is much less likely to take the spotlight away from Albert.
3. It’s not about baseball. (I threw that one in for you CC).
CC, I had go a bit further: How many teams have one player backing up 2nd and SS? I would gander that it would be between 0 and 1, maybe 2. But closer to 0. And, Crdswmn, it IS about baseball, lol. There’s 2 pilots and only 1 seat available on the Jet. Now if MC could possibly play 2B as well, then I’d say he makes the team.
Btw, Crdswmn, do you remember that Phillies series last year after the all star break? The Phillies started a young man with the last name of Carpenter (I”m missing his first name for some reason), he faced Chris Carpenter that day, and Poor Al was certainly worse for wear, lol.
“I would go a bit further……” , sorry folks for butchering the english language the last two days.
Good point – especially when that 1 backup will sometimes be playing CF.
The Japanese meet their mythological “Godzilla”. Do you think that the development of that Mythology actually helps them in their struggle for survival? …………… question in point? Is Tony hitting Carpenter 2nd today…….1) to help establish an irrefutable position in the face of management………..2) to see if this kid may actually be immune to AP “sickness”…….3) just another excuse to hide a struggling Freese?
Theriot is the backup 2nd baseman………..
Freese is scheduled to play in three of the next four days. I have a subscriber story at The Cardinal Nation with camp news that includes TLRs comments about Freese this morning.
I’ll use my imagination and guess that if management isn’t going to use MC, they better help find out what Tony’s going to need till Punto comes back……………. where as Tony is fighting for his life against a sliding AP……….. knowing that the season could be over by the end of April to a sub 500 team.
Why is the tecord important? It’a or about Baseball you know.
That reminds me of a Miro that hangs on the wall of one of my students. I didn’t know you had a cultured background Brazilian. The many surprises that surround this Cardinal team no doubt.
The question “will AP produce more in this contract year” in a recent Post article……… the answer,
The division pitchers “pray” that he will be pressing…………..
Help me out Westie, who is struggling more – Craig with his .950+ OPS or Freese with his 1.050+ OPS.
A famous WestCoast quote…………” Freese has the best swing on the team” he is my guy. His struggles are with his body and his mental balance……Tony knows his importance. Thats why he wants a viable option against his overuse……… too much carnival for you Brazilian.
Carpenter with his first K in 27 ab’s. I guess he is struggling now too.
You’re having some sort of emotional crisis Brazilian. Talk to Jumbo.
You dont know how happy I’d be if that was the case!
WestCoast, I feel I owe you some credit. I thought about your “Craig trade” scenario, and I came to the conclusion that it is plausible. Though, I still don’t agree with you. I do, however, see it as a possible scenario, if the Cards would want to use both MC and Freese. I think missing the power RH bat will prevent that from happening, IMO, among other things.
Again, I just thought you should know. We argued a little back and forth, and if I am ever wrong, or have some of my opinion swayed, I tend to offer credit. Cheers.
TB……….I don’t argue with anyone here. I really don’t know what Craig’s future is. I do know how Mo/BD think. How they do business. Same for Tony. Bd will want to influence Tony. Tony will try to pressure BD…….each wanting something different.
Craig isn’t a 3rd baseman. Any time in the outfield only comes at Berkman/Jay’s expense. Bd will want to save MC. Tony wants a 3rd baseman that can play and pinch hit……. If Brian says that Freese is going to be tested next week………..Tony is going to find out somethings about Freese’s ankles…..before they demote MC………I would think.
If Tony wins…….and Craig is the odd man out. I would look for some kind of move………our number 1′s struggling against a traveling team? If Albert slumps through opening day……Tony is going to need a spark plug.
Watching film of Berkman hitting…….he’s hurt, and is getting some help disguising/hiding it……..if that is the case, Craigs gets extra life……MC, not so much.
So now Albert is slumping too?
Albert’s swing is not as good as Freese’
All we know about Berkman is he can DH. All we know about Freese is he hasn’t got hurt playing ‘under control’ for a few games. I doubt Craig is going anywhere.
Help me out, who is struggling more – Pujols with his < .700 OPS or Berkman with his < .700 OPS
Berkman has elbow and hamstring issues while as far as I know, Pujols is healthy.
Ask Westie, not me – he’s the great prognosticator on who is struggling!
Why does it matter, it is ST. You can’t prognosticate anything from ST.
Think about that crdswmn. The 5th starter, a couple of pen guys and the bench will be chosen based upon ST prognostication.
Sure they will. That doesn’t mean they will end up being the right choices. Regular season play will determine that.
The sooner Freese gets into a few games, the sooner the poor unlucky man will have his next injury. It will be too bad, but life can be unfair. He has been jinxed.
Jamie has changed a few things…………..he is giving up allot more than he is getting for his changes……………….His strength last year was control and stability in his delivery. He is varying his tempo and to a significant extent, his arm angle. I’m a little surprised…………his reasoning I’d guess has to do with ” longevity” issues.
I’m laughing because after writing that……..he comes out with his old arm angle…….and proceeds to get shredded,……….unable to get the ball down………..Dave said something obviously……. but now a problem is exposed. Not so good.
That inning continued to deteriorate. I would say he’s been toying a pitch other than his slider and sinker, and is caught up in the mechanic of wrist and spin……….. when he reverted to his three quarter arm slot, his slider was weak and his sinker wouldn’t sink………………. throwing meat….
He may have been working on something…….he may resolve it.
I really hope Craig and Freese struggle like this all year long!
Tony leaving Garcia in…and hanging…. had purpose…..obviously a little tough love social work.
Dave must have been in agreement to leave him on the spit at this point……….
Go away Brazilian.
Westie, just because I happen to inhabit the only place that will semi-tolerate you doesn’t mean that you have any particular domain over the place. At least I have various other options .
I am tiring again of your unsubstantiated pop psychobabble though. Almost makes me long for your paranoid delusions and conspiracy theories. As we say here in Brazil – “You are tiring out my beauty”.
Sigh…..It’s going to be a long Summer.
The “privilege” of actually knowing whats going on in real time…….isn’t something I need to extend………….If Brian and or the other posters here value it, they should speak up. Brazilian your back on the bench. If I had the button I would just shut you down. Your a punk.
Guys, let’s lay off the personal slams, please.
That is inadequate Brian…..I’ll check in after the season starts.
Message to all:
It is anyone’s decision to post or not post here. As long as you follow the site guidelines, you are welcome.
I want a place where people talk about baseball, not each other. I am working and am not interested in refereeing squabbles between posters.
Disagreements are expected, but it shouldn’t be too much for people to do so respectfully.
Thinskinitis, unfortunately. I used to suffer from it until law school cured me.
Carioca: you were advised not to read Westie literally.
For morale or sanity, it seems best to let Westie be Westie, while you focus on his “………………..”es. These pauses are very peaceful.
The return of Jumbo could inspire anyone…….
Unfortunately, he has cut down on the “………”‘s thus eliminating some of the most intelligent parts of his postings.
Good thing you’re one of the cool kids CC, so you can blow through the stop sign.
I take it the rest of us have to follow the rules.
Now I understand how Oquendo feels coaching third.
CC, is getting the last word in really that important to you? Do you have anything positive to add to the discussion?
Do I get forgiven if I’m safe at home?
I have never sweated a ST yet and I am not about to start. The regular guys are not going to play at regular season form because the ST games don’t count and why risk injury. They use the time to get ready for the regular season and maybe experiment with a few things. The guys who are trying to make the team are the ones who go all out. Exceptions are guys like Freese who is trying to prove he can come back and Kmac who is competing for the rotation. That is my thinking, right or wrong.
Thats true to a certain extent CRD. Don’t forget that these guys don’t spend their off hours in the library……….. There is no edge for the well paid….but they are vain……….. Molina’s frequent trips to the mound to Jamie weren’t all called from the dugout………but a few may have been.
It looks like Vasquez isn’t going north like Nunez did.
As I understand, from the stl.today article today, its coming down to Descalso vs MCarpenter for the roster spot.
It will be interesting to see if anyone besides MCarp gets Freese relief reps at third. It may be that Tony feels like he knows what Craig, Greene and Descalso can and can’t do at third, and so wants to see mostly MCarp.
It seems like whoever besides MCarp it will be would benifit from some work at the position prior to opening day, so unless MCarp plays himself out of contention pretty soon, I’d give him the edge.
So far, his bat just won’t quit. It sounds like he takes good at bats which Tony likes.