How might the story unfold if the St. Louis Cardinals and Albert Pujols are unable to come to contract terms by the reported deadline of February 16?
As the baseball world is far too aware, St. Louis Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols does not plan to discuss his contract once he reports to spring training. Some media sources have said Pujols’ camp has assigned February 16 as that deadline date.
Looking ahead a few days, what might happen on the 16th?
Certainly, the two sides could announce a new contract. That is pretty cut and dried.
If there is no deal, however, a number of possible scenarios might ensue.
1) Both sides could restrict their communications regarding the status of the negotiations to prepared statements only.
a) They could disclose the details on money and years discussed privately that everyone wants to hear, or much more likely,
b) They would not provide specifics other than the obvious that the deal is not done.
i. Reporters (and the fans) would not be satisfied with that and would continue to probe for information. Either the sides would hold to that stance or
ii. This agreement might erode if one side discloses details (either directly or indirectly) designed to try to take the high road. This would drive the other side into sharing their version of the events, likely conflicting in at least some aspects. The result would be a more contentious public posture to carry into the season.
2) Both sides could take media questions either separately or jointly in a scheduled press conference.
a) Either Pujols would be kept out of it, with his agent representing him or
b) Pujols would be involved directly.
3) Both sides could make a joint decision about further communications.
a) They could agree to cease discussions until after the season (as expected) or
b) They could decide to continue discussions, disregarding the deadline or
c) They could say they won’t be talking, but continue to privately do so anyway.
No matter what, the heat is about to be turned up. During the winter months, the principals have generally been unavailable and out of the spotlight. With Pujols reporting to camp, that will change.
Specifically, even if the 2a path is followed, Pujols will still personally be pressed for information, whether in the clubhouse or on the practice fields, an action that will almost assuredly irritate him.
Once Pujols is in uniform, he will not be protected by his handlers. I do imagine team officials will try to shield him, but some will continue to ask the questions until they get something of substance to report.
Here is my 2a-related prediction based on my direct experience. Pujols will say he is not talking about it. That might hold until about the third time he is asked, at which point he will angrily explain in considerable detail why he isn’t talking about it.
Another possibility is the 2b path – that the Cardinals hold a Mark McGwire-like clear-the-air show on day one of camp to get it out of the way, supposedly once and for all. This seems like the most straightforward way to go, but putting Pujols directly on the “witness stand” has its risks, too.
Trying to influence public perception without it being obvious they are attempting to do so could be a crucial maneuver for both parties. Fans will invariably take sides, with some accusing Pujols of being insincere and greedy, others calling ownership inept and/or cheap, while others, disgusted by the entire process, will blame both. The ones who have already made up their minds will find cause to dig their trenches even deeper.
No matter what, Pujols’ teammates and manager will be queried about the situation for a day or two, but like the McGwire story last spring, once it is clear there is nothing more to say, the local media will generally move on.
The national media and those who cover Cardinals opponents will be a much different animal, however. If unresolved, the contract and free agency questions will be asked and re-asked in each new road city all year long.
Photoshoppers in every MLB city will be cutting and pasting Pujols’ smiling face into the local threads. It seems inevitable. After all, each of them could be a prospective future home of the franchise first baseman.
What do you think will happen on February 16?
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The one I would guarantee wont happen is 1(a).
Agree. That is totally unrealistic. Without it though, there will be all kinds of rumors which some will accept as fact.
Tell me where you want to go with this Brian. Did you bury my last post…….or are you trying to re-frame the dialog into something more earth-like? Would you like me connect your observations to their “symbolic” causative origins. Do you want to actually effect what might transpire? My question in my last post was not rhetorical……. what actually happens will be a major indicator of what did happen…….and what will happen………
I will repost it here just in case……….
Some very touching comments by all. Tony’s emotional disposition isn’t surprising really. He is a softy………. a romantic if you will.
I really feel like I’ve got to know BD a bit more via my investigative ramblings. Thats a good thing I feel. I’m reminded of the illusory nature of “knowledge” as a substitute for a simple awareness of events in their larger context/framework. Being emotionally detached from the “charismatic” or historic AP, I must admit has been a big advantage.
I think its about time we started enjoying the season………..and a season to remember this will be.
A Question for everyone………….. AP has often acted out the role of ” My team” “My privilege”
“just get me to the plate, for I am thy savior” “Charlton Heston Esq” posturing religious figure turned baseball player…………… for his adoring fans. Sometimes with success…………lately not so much. Yes, it appears to me that he is fixated at this point with what appears to be a wonderful “Me against the league, world, universe” Messianic self exploration………….
It may appear differently to you………..but BD is betting that he knows the outcome.
Does this team “rally” around his banner………or does he end up on a cross somewhere else in America, another bad decision by a foolish organization looking for a “hero”????????
I’m going to be exploring some of the likely scenarios that spring from this wonderful “field of possibilities” in coming weeks…………….. the preacher bird has landed ……..
Ask yourselves something for me………….. do you ever fulfill your own expectation for “perceptual acuity” ???????? or do you anxiously recalibrate their relevance as focus is achieved???
wanting to see farther…….more……….
Albert will be forced to make a statement in the next 10 days. Will BD be on the platform with him? or answer at a later press conference? Whats you guess?
Reply
WC, you ask many questions. If it is the last one you are most interested in, if no deal, I don’t know that Albert will make a spoken statement at all, with or without management, until/unless the media goads him into it. He may try to get his agent to do the talking. That is just a guess.
Lets be honest about the AP negotiations………….. there weren’t any. Period. Hiding that from the public is just what happened.
It is still in Lozano/Pujols interest to keep the Cardinals in position for what ever course this may take……….they will be cooperative.
BD is herding at this point….and he has been successful……….. AP didn’t blow up and start calling for a trade……… he is on his way to the “ambush” and/or……to fill a special need in a project of the commissioners/MLB’s best interest………..
Okay…..everyone believes that they are on target………. the unknown is the real destination and or intension of all the players here.
BD has been in Jupiter for a week……he is a hands on owner…… just a Regan-esq/George Bush roll up your sleeves kind of guy………or so it will seem.
The question here is……. were concessions made in the Holiday deal last year concerning these events? Holiday would have been a great fit in Boston or NY………145 for Crawford now that the leash has been taken off…………. plus the help with Gonzales…….???
If BD is intent on trying to keep AP…..making a play off of a colluded market…… he must take the stage with Albert…..and likely Tony and Mo….and talk about their/his hopes for the season….. Thus controlling and limiting any damage to his “property” that could well occur in a number of scenarios………
If BD’s plan is to distance himself……..knowing that he is fulfilling some agreement already reached, he likely will answer any questions that may arise at a different time……..or may in fact initiate all the action with a preemptive press conference, stating his hopes and sharing his optimism about coming to an agreement in the future, thus giving AP/Lozano an easy pitch to hit……… with an opportunity to respond in kind…….that being in their best interest in any scenario.
If they give a separate press conference…….AP’s is gone….whether he knows it or not.
Some fool in another group…..obviously a WC wannabe wrote this;
The Cardinals won’t sign AP this month. He is the property of MLB at this point. DeWitt will make a formal offer before the end of the season predicated on the supposed market, taking in to consideration Pujols performance this year. No team in the upper echelon will be encouraged to bid over the Cardinals. Washington, La, and Toronto will be allowed to make what might be termed a parity speculation, 250 to 300 I’d guess. Thats if he has a normal year. AP will then have to decide. St Louis has a 50/50 chance, based on AP sympathies. This isn’t a “local matter”.
To torture me once is one thing but to make read it again……………
It will start with 1(b) but quickly become 2(a )and/or 2(b) all season long until we all want to commit hari-kari.
Ugh.
On the 16th Mo will make some statement with little or no info and then stonewall. If Lozano says anything at all it will be about like Mo. Albert will say nothing other then stuff he’s already said.
Albert the future free agent will be a bigger draw than highly paid locked up Albert. Bigger draw not just in St. Louis, but everywhere and on TV.
Will Albert have the traditional career year running up to FA? What would that look like?
There is nothing that Albert can do in 2011 that will make him more valuable than he is now. But there is stuff that could make him less valuable, like injury and erosion of performance. Avoiding that risk is valuable and Albert should be willing to make a concession in exchange for it. In my opinion, he hasn’t, and BDW is unwilling to give it away. Might as well see what happens this year.
That may be what BD is doing but it is risky. What if Albert has a better year than 2010? BD either pays through the nose (and probably more than he could have gotten Albert for now) or he lets Albert walk. Which one hurts him more financially? Or maybe BD plans to milk 2011 with no intention of keeping Albert thinking it will not hurt him in the long term. I think he is wrong. Both sides are playing risky games and one of them is going to lose. The only way for this to work out for both sides, imo, is for BD to make a reasonable offer now (my idea is in the 210-240 range) and for Albert to take it.
The above has not been sanctioned by MLB or any of its affiliates, heirs, designees, assignees, etc, etc, etc.
I don’t believe that Pujols’ performance in 2011, above or below his average, will matter one bit. His value has been established over a decade.
To that end, I ran an article on the main site in which I compared Pujols’ 2010 to his other seasons. He didn’t have a career best in anything last year, and was in the lower half of his ten seasons in most stats, including his worst BA ever. Yet average for him is just fine.
Brian, how can that be………….. if he hits under 300, under 100 rbi’s……less the 30 hrs……that will effect the market in all but the most irrelevant cities. He looses 40 million, even in Washington.
The point is……many people in baseball would be relieved by his disintegration…….but from a revenue standpoint, with all BD’s debts…….he would create a bigger upside in DC or NY than anywhere else……. put some butts in the seats in the NL East. Revenue flow is what the poorer teams want to increase.
Don’t think that Jeff G. wasn’t trying to break a truce with his little comment…….. that was the extent of their conversations……the philosophy of the market place………..seems to be pressing for an adversarial atmosphere…………that was no slip of the tongue.
I think another down year could hurt him tremendously. From a WAR standpoint if he is worse than 2010 it would be his 3rd straight declining year. The age/durability/decline question would become huge at that point.
Does the drop-off in his defensive sabr stats, from top of the heap to average, mean anything?
Would a further drop, to below average, have any effect on his value? What about another new career low BA? What about injury?
All of that may not keep somebody from paying record bucks in 2012, but may affect how many years somebody is willing to pay it.
I’m not predicting Albert will see a decline this year. My point is only that it is a risk, and the avoidance of that risk is of value.
A portion of the WAR decline is from defense. That may not matter as much to an AL team who figures at some point he will DH in any case.
All good comments……….. as I said before, the team will not rally around a pouter……..and he has been that……….. Tony goes down with a looser too……….. thats why he got a bunch of scrappers, not under the influence……..Berkman and Holiday are going to hook right up…. if they roll…..Pujols either join in and responds, or its injury time……. like it or not AP has lost major credibility with his teammates……..and thats a fact……its not just about this contract either.
Well if things continue as they are we are all going to find out Albert’s value when he hits FA. Unfortunately it will probably be with another team. Que sera sera.
There may be something we can read into what happens though. If they either put out a joint statement or have representatives speaking at the same press conference I will take that as a positive sign that there will continue to be dialogue either through out the season or afterwards. If the statements are separate I will assume that things are not of an amicable note.
Good point. One might hope they are still on good terms, but you never know…
“Even if his productivity fades as he reaches his late 30s, his business value would remain immense. This franchise would be worth a LOT more if Albert plays out his career here, then hangs around as an ambassador or some sort of coach.”
It’s hard to quantify that value, but agent Dan Lozano is giving it a shot.
This is from Jeff Gordon………………..ending with this………..
“And for those unwilling to attend Cards games in his absence, his new stage would be just four hours away.”
Ever one here knows who JG works for…………….. that was the first intended leak of Lozano’s justification against Cardinal concerns………………..amazing…………I smell a fight coming.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/article_358ebdcc-353b-11e0-a7d2-0017a4a78c22.html
I got some yuks out of that Westy. Albert would want to play for the Royals because he lived in KC for a few years 10 years ago. Give me a break.
Sadly, the Cards willingness to bid against no-one last year with Matt, may be helping to stiffen Albert’s position. If BDW was as smart as we think, he would have been on a flight to Arlington. Had a chat with the locals. Maybe unstiffen things a bit.
Notice the picture he chose………….for the story…………..wow…..
I was gratified to hear Boras lost Weaver’s arb hearing. Even though Weaver was an all star. That 1-11 guy won his. Har. . .
Scotti didn’t loose much….. he was probably offered the median……though he might be able to grab the extra 6/7 hundred thousand……. its just part of the game.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/twins-open-to-trading-liriano.html
this is about longevity……..surrounding the use of his slider………. they know they might get some serious prospects with that kid…….from a fool anyway…….watch Jocetty go after him anyway……
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/video/mlb/2011/02/10/021011.heyman_pujols.SportsIllustrated/index.html
Heyman is giving the 190+ figure…….calling the sides 100 million apart.
Thanks for sharing the link.
You gotta love Murray Chass. Here is an absolute gem:
“That 10-year, $300 million proposal has been mentioned as Pujols’ price, but so have 5 years and $250 million. I heard that figure from someone who heard it from a fellow who lives in St. Louis and is well-connected with the team’s owners.”
That is the kind of attribution Buster Olney aspires to write someday.
In fairness, after Chass gets past the silliness, he revisits the “player owns a share of the team” topic.
Buster got it here…………. the was the 6/30 +10 discussed. Its the highest number BD could afford to protect……….. he knew it wouldn’t get past Lozano……thats why I’m surprised that in the end, he didn’t leak it. I think its a fair deal……..the rest is BS.
Differed money is essentially limited ownership.
Ran across this interesting tidbit in the Southern Historical Society Papers for 1880, relating the prison experience of a Lt. captured in VA in late 1863 who was imprisoned at Johnson’s Island, a camp for Confederate officers on an island in Lake Erie near Sandusky, Ohio. Looks like guys were playing baseball long before old Abner Doubleday, a Union general, ‘invented’ the game.
“The following morning the prisoners were taken to the Old Capitol prison, where they were confined three days, when the officers were sent to Johnson’s Island…
As soon as the captured officers reached… prison, the buoyancy of their natures asserted itself, and during the winter months every species of amusement possible was indulged in to drive away the ennui and render prison life bearable. A minstrel company was formed… and their entertainments were witnessed and appreciated by many outside as well as inside the prison… none more eagerly than the officers of the garrison, who invariably assembled to witness them.
They also organized baseball clubs — the Southern nine, composed of those below the rank of captain… and the Confederate nine, composed of the higher officers. Their championship game was considered one of the best ever played, and was witnessed by upwards of 3,000 people, including the prisoners, officers and citizens of Sandusky… who eagerly embraced the opportunity to be present.
So apprehensive were the prison officials that the game was gotten up for the purpose of covering an attempt to break out, that they had the slides of the port holes drawn back and the guns prepared for action. The Sandusky Register published a long and eulogistic account of the game, which was won by the Southerns… it was made the subject of severe comment by the bitter Radical press of the North, who immediately demanded the removal of the commanding officer, for allowing the Rebels so much liberty. Their malicious efforts were successful, the commander was removed, and the amusement of the unhappy prisoners, for the time being, cut off.”
Interesting Tex, you may have a historical find there.
Though it has since been discredited, the “invention” by Doubleday was said to have been in 1839. The first documented game using modern rules was in 1846, umpired by Alexander Cartwright.
Ol’ Abner could have been there showing those southern boys the ropes. Hardy souls, playing winter ball on an island in lake Erie.
I think the legend has him ‘inventing’ the game before the Civil War.
MLB likes attention. Will Cards legend Pujols leave via free agency? They will want to milk the publicity until at least December 2011.
Albert has made a lot of money. He is secure for life. Thanks to this security, he can afford to risk an injury during 2011. No reason to re-sign with the Cards right now. Both Mo and Lozano know this. Their negotiation this past winter has been an act, to play nice for the public.
Contrary to Westy’s thinking at least one of Albert’s teammates really wants him to stay.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/11/matt-holliday-willing-to-defer-money-to-help-keep-albert-pujols
Thats a piece of work………….. sound like Matt is a team man…..a real leader……. a guy that wants to get on top of this………… after all, it really comes down to restructuring his contract to help the poor struggling Cardinals sign sign AP………. he could have his boys selling pencils in front of the stadium. etc,etc………… his mother didn’t raise a fool.
Holliday gave away not only the sleeves, but the entire vest!
Maybe the reporters in camp can ask every player this question as they arrive. Sort of a virtual team passing the hat exercise…
I hope not.
Remember when people asked Albert would he call and try to speak with Matt about signing with the Cardinals and Albert said that it was not his business and that Matt needed to do what he thought was best for his family. Or something to that affect.
I mentioned leadership back then and also mentioned that Jeter actually took prospective players out to dinner to tell them about the team.
Matts comments show that he cares about the team. Its like I said earlier, the sooner Matt grabs hold of that leadership role the sooner the Cardinals will win. His words show that he places the team above his self.
We can be conditioned to interpret matters based on our pre-determined views of people. I am not ready to grant Holliday sainthood just because he made a positively-sounded statement about a circumstance he knows will most likely never come about.
After all, it isn’t like Holliday is living hand to mouth. He’d probably rather spread that income out over more years for tax purposes. Further, he did not specifically say he would consider deferring money interest-free, did he?
Holliday also called it “very hypothetical” and noted that his agent Scott Boras probably wouldn’t like it. That is a pretty good guess. Is there any history that suggests Boras might ask for something in return? Would Scotty be motivated to contribute to someone else taking away the record for the biggest contract ever? (though Boras’ involvement in the A-Rod deal rates an asterisk)
As a ballplayer, Holliday believes his team is better with Pujols than without and wants to see him stay. That’s good, but that is as far as I would take it.
And HB call me a cynic.
…. among other things!
I spoke to a veteran Braves player just the other day about some of this same stuff. He told me how he absolutely thinks Chipper is the biggest jerk he has ever played with and cares little about anything but his numbers.
I asked him how he deals with commenting on players. He told me that you just always stay positive with your comments no matter what. He went on to say it was tough tough tough to do that most of the time especially when the player you keep getting asked about is a prick.
His advice was to just continue to build them up in the media and steer clear of them at all times when you are in the clubhouse.
He said the best players are the biggest fakes. He said Colby has the biggest one in the league on his team…………..to which I responded, Matt is not that kind of guy at all.
The conversation was interesting but I had already heard it before.
I’m sure that Albert was so moved by Matt’s gesture that he is now going to give in some on his demands.
Does a great player start out as a prick or does he become one when he becomes a great player? Chicken or egg challenge. Go.
I’d say a great player grows into a prick. Maybe the huge ego is the main reason for that players success, who knows?
I’ve spoken with Jeter at length before and thought he was just a different kind of guy. He could talk to you and act like he was a nobody. Most superstars don’t come across like that.
Roger Clemons is another guy who is a stud but he and I spoke for months and he was as helpful as any guy I’ve ever been around in giving of his knowledge.
Wainwright is a stud but may be the nicest guy I’ve ever met. Matt H is a super nice guy. Neither have the word asshat tattooed across their forehead.
Its like my Braves buddy said, its the fake stuff they do in public that drives one crazy, because you see them when they are not in public and you know then that their act in public is a show.
I know a few people like that. When I see them I just imagine them with sunglasses on and a cup in their hand.
If the parties are $100 million apart, then split the difference , make it $240, structure some options and deferments and git er done.
Its not about baseball CRD………this is political. MLB has made AP its poster boy for the last two years. The owners don’t want anymore 200+ contracts……without meeting some specific objectives that limit there exposure to collusion grievances filed by the union… these contracts create a very expensive void in the desired rules that effect arbitration structure….rules owners like….. MLB wielded the Steroid Scandal…. Barry Bonds stuck on the hood of their car…quite nicely….. ……they are mounting AP for the negotiation that will take place next DEC………..
You know gang, this isn’t the story of the day…….that story has been brewing for over a year in NY, surrounding the Mets and their ownership structure…….with its relationship to Bernie Madoff.
Its in legal slow motion…..but it is very dangerous to many people……..that includes you know who………. the first wave is just 300 million…..but if it goes to a billion….and starts to include the many bodies and ghosts entombed in their stadium finances……..that is trouble.
The commissioner has his hands full right now………. I’m going to write something on this before long……….. staring Comcast/Fox , the nasty boys featuring BD, and the Brooklyn Dodgers.
Yes Westy I know. It is never about baseball.
Most excellent reply…I must say…….the beginning of a great spiritual pilgrimage starts with a single step.
The Mets are a mess. Owners in bed with Bernie Madoff, new stadium supported by Citibank.
It was not good when Lozano split off from Beverly Hills SC. His career is now tied to maximizing Albert’s next deal. The two sides could probably agree on $30MM/yr. The difficulty will be over number of years. If another team is willing to give Albert 10 years, Mark Hamilton may be 1B for 2012.
Good points HerkO………..there is a conditional qualification to each point though. Citibank is a fuse ready to be lit…….lets wait on that.
Off topic-anybody read the Ryan Franklin comments on MLB traderumors……………………..Franklin sounds like he isn`t going to miss Brandan at all.
Franky is towing the party line in public just like everyone else. No surprise.
In the military we would call trading a player because he is continually late an example of failed leadership.
There are players who are late who suffer no consequences. I don’t question that Brendan was late. I question the double standard in the clubhouse. That is the leadership problem.
Maybe I just don’t see it because I cover more road than home games, but what other players have a reputation for being late? The only one I know of was Felipe Lopez and he was released, reportedly with that being a factor.
I haven’t seen a double-standard, unless you mean arriving late to first base on ground balls, and they are excused…
RC has talked on more than one occasion about the double standard in the clubhouse. Of course he is not going to name names. Anyone is free to believe or not believe what RC says. I believe him.
I do now think I recall that someone mentioned that one of the sparks of the Colby-TLR incident was the player arriving late with some circumstances surrounding it. RC later explained the whole separate bus and taxi thing here, if that is where you are going.
No, I am referring to a more recent post in the Stan Musial thread where RC states the following:
“It is hard to develop team chemistry(which the Brewers and Reds seem to have)….probably one of the most underrated things in sports. If you like someone you will fight for them, if you dislike them you don’t. Its as simple as that. I do believe Tony tried last year to have the team come together and socialize. In my opinion this was Tony trying to develop a little chemistry. But it may be hard when your best player may not be willing to participate in that stuff. But I do give Tony credit for trying. But he has lost control of the beast at this point and there is no reeling the beast in..
Its hard for everyone to feel the need to be on time, show up at the meetings, run balls out hard, and all the other stuff when a few don’t have to do those things. Resentment creeps in……..why us and not them? factions over here, factions over there, factions everywhere. Been there done that. And then BOOM goes the chemistry.
But its like anything else, you learn to adapt to your surroundings and I believe this year Colby has reached the point where he will fall right into line and not really care about the fun part………finally He has been assimilated into the collective at this point. I have always told him to watch how Albert approaches the game and I am hopeful that he has reached that point. Take care of your business, put up good solid numbers and the rest of it is not your concern”
That ‘double standard’ business is Major Bullhockey…
Why don’t Yadi and Albert run hard on ground balls? It’s to protect the health of two of the team’s key components. One is the best defensive catcher in baseball… whose throwing ability stifles the running games of opponents, and whose presence in the lineup on a daily basis is likely worth a full point off team ERA. He has bad knees. In fact, at the end of last year he was benched due to knee injury. The other, Albert Pujols, is simply one of the most feared hitters in baseball… maybe the best hitter ever. And we know he also has had multiple injuries to his feet, legs, etc. over the years.
This should be no secret to any fan of this team. What’s more important… Albert and Yadi running out meaningless ground balls with Liitle League enthusiam, or having these two key players available and as healthy as possible during an entire season?
If fans, like myself, can see and acknowledge these things… is it hard to understand that their teammates might also be somewhat aware of it? And if others, who don’t have that history of injury or who aren’t being told by management to stay within themselve and play intelligently to avoid unecessary injury, use that as an excuse for not hustling or for petty jealousy, then that is shame on THEM.
I agree HB. Anyone with a history of leg injuries needs to be allowed to take it easy on routine ground balls. Also when Yadi hits a ground ball with a man on first that runner should just peel off into right field because there is no need to risk injury going hard into 2B when the guy hitting the ball is jogging to prevent injury. Makes sense….I like it. Freese is a candidate for jogging…he is valuable and has a history of leg injuries (ankle to be more precise). Berkman should definitely jog out ground balls….knee surgery. Colby has had a bad calf two years. Jogging.
Theriot, Skip, and Holliday need to be getting after it though.
I think it’s fair to say that guys like Albert and Yadi, who’ve established themselves as key components and producers for the club, have little need to establish their bone-fides with their teammates.
Young guys who haven’t yet established themselves better hustle… it’s in their own self-interest. Or they can sit around and pout… like little babies… and whine ‘why do I have to run hard? Albert and Yadi don’t!!!
Waaaaaa!’
I think the team will want Freese and Berkman to play under control. The reasons for that should be obvious.
Again HB you conveniently ignore the parts of my post you don’t like. You focus on the running out of ground balls but say nothing about being on time and other things RC mentions. My comment about “double standards” had absolutely nothing to do about running out ground balls it had to do about lateness yet you go on a tear about something I didn’t even discuss. No one has accused Albert or Yadi of being late. RC only pointed out that not all players are equally required to be on time. Who in particular, well that I can’t say, and I am sure RC won’t either. Believe as you wish, as I said. I myself have no reason to believe he is lying in his comments so I take them at face value.
crdswmn — As you say, nobody has ever accused Yadi/Albert of not showing up on time to meetings. Given that, why would I comment on it? Conversely, Albert and Yadi not running out ground balls is a frequent topic here… not so much from you directly, but definitely a prominent and recurring theme of the board.
If you want to accept RC’s musings as coming from the burning bush, that’s your business. I don’t think he’s a liar, but it doesn’t take a genius to see that he has bias in matters Cardinal and an active dislike of certain people. on the team So while I find RC interesting, and often entertaining, I take what he says with a grain of salt and a healthy dose of circumspection.
So masculine Tex………the way you season your…… what was that again.. a healthy dose of circumcision?
Westy — All I can say about you comment above… and most all of your others, is that it’s ‘not about baseball.’
Translation—it doesn’t fit into my version of reality so I will ignore it.
Why would you comment on it. ? Because you said there was no double standard. If you meant that there is no double standard on running out ground balls you should have been more specific. Therefore I took your response to mean there is no double standard on anything period. So your answer is that RC is not lying, but you don’t believe it. Or it is a “musing”. RC was contemplating that players are not equally required to be on time? Why would he need to contemplate it? If he finds out from Colby that that is what is going on, how is that a “musing”? Sounds like a basic of statement of fact to me. Or perhaps Colby contemplated it too.
Typical HB to turn what doesn’t fit into your world into something that it isn’t. Facts are facts when they support your arguments but they are “musings” when they don’t.
The crunch time lay down the last couple years is a classic symptom of failed leadership.
There are two ways to address failed leadership. You can get a new chief who is a better leader, or you can get new indians who are easier to lead.
I am among those who think La Russa had a rough season in 2010. Coming into the year, the team had a strong roster and I commented at the time that it was on the manager to bring them home, but the club did not play well at unexplainable times. Having said that, it doesn’t undo the successes of his previous 14 seasons.
Nor does it discount the idea that TLR is no longer effective, that perhaps his style and personality will never mesh with the newer players and the team will continue on a downward spiral because of it.
That’s where I’m at as far as LaRussa is concerned-I hear you. I just don’t think he’s a good manager right now. The late season collapses, well, you could set your watch by it. Even the 2006 team backed into winning the division after blowing a substantial lead.
I just don’t get how he is absolved of any blame. It’s always something or someone else’s fault; never LaRussa. Injuries get blamed a lot too. I understand it’s hard to overcome injuries, but championship teams routinely do just that. No one goes through the season unscathed on the injury front-you have to have a reasonable back up plan. I can’t decide if that’s on Mozeliak or LaRussa. I have a sense there are some players they could/would have brought in or brought up if LaRussa agreed to it.
Which brings me to another thing I don’t like about his managing. He seems to have this set idea on exactly what he wants a player to be, if you can’t find that exact thing, he doesn’t want the player. It shows me a complete unwillingness to adjust anything for anyone and an arrogance that blinds him to any new possibilities.
It is unknown how much his ADHD and not always using his medication played into the situation, but if it was still contributing to the problems, the player has to be at least partly accountable. After awhile, even with a good explanation/reason for his behavior, others could be bothered. Obviously, Franklin is one.
Franklin may very well feel exactly like he expressed. My point is that any player who may disagree that Brendan’s lateness was a problem knows better than to say so in public.
Agree. Especially at this point, better left behind.
Unless there is another variable here…….and if you like BR……..you just wish him well…..end of story.
The media should not be asking the players about Brendan. He’s gone. There is no good reason to continue to crucify him in public. Let it alone.
Eh. The media is ALWAYS going to ask questions. Franklin could have declined to comment; he could have said something to the effect that he’s no longer on the team, lets talk about the players on the team. He could have taken the high road, said the classy thing, such as, eh, he’s gone, I wish him well with his new team.
He didn’t do any of those things. He took the dirt road, the one where you throw another shovel of dirt on the guy. I don’t think real highly of Franklin now either.
Yea, at this stage they need to just let it go. No need to keep kicking the guy. There is no benefit to saying anything bad about him. I’m extra worried now for Franklin…..He doesn’t miss many bats and now he may be setting himself up for bad things to happen to him. Like getting his brains kicked in by the other team. No reason to set yourself up for some bad luck by running those chops too much. But I think its easy to see that this group of players is quick to cut another player up verbally. Its why they got along so great together. lol
Ha-Ha. The mighty Mr. Franklin ought to feel mighty proud about now. His blurb about Brendan Ryan made into the Seattle Post Intelligencer. Bravo, Frankie!
Just dumb dumb dumb even saying anything. Remember the professionalism that is the basis for existence in St. Louis Franky.
What really is funny to me is that Ryan Franklin was busted for Steroids……ha ha. that is like really being tardy a bunch…like 50 games huh?
Its like Capone giving Gatti a hard time for killing people. 
Albert set the standard with the remarks about Colby. Other players can be expected to follow the example set by the leader.
Booo on Franklin. He deserves every bit of criticism he gets for this. He won’t get enough, because many Cardinals fans, including a couple on this blog will defend him to the nth degree. I love the Cardinals, but when the players screw up, they get no sympathy from me. Franky, think before you yap next time.
Yea its unfortunate that Albert set that precedent with his comments.
What’s that line? ‘You can’t HANDLE the truth!!!’
The Mariners are stocking up on middle infielders who got run out of St. Louis.
HB-what if Ryan comes out and says Franklin is wrong? Who are you going to believe? Never mind. I already know the answer.
The players got their wish-Ryan’s gone. Doesn’t seem to be enough though. Still complaining and whining about him.
Remember how offended everyone was by Brandon Phillips’ comments last year? This is one example where there is some truth to it.
Isn’t it rich that a man who broke a much bigger baseball rule, you know the one against steroid use, is so annoyed by someone being late “more than once?” I guess Ryan gets a 50 game suspension for that infraction!
mm — First time I ever saw a reference to Ryan’s tardiness was in an article last Feb. Skip was quoted praising Brendan’s maturity… showing up on time, every day, for pre-spring training hitting sessions with Mac and Skip. Then there was the Cincy game, showing up late without his glove and the Tunnel Talk with Carp. There were hints about in Strauss’ reporting, then comments and further verification (post-trade) by Lohse and now Franklin.
When everyone talking is singing the same tune, and there is evidence to be had with one’s own eyes, you have to believe there is something factual to the story. Not one Cardinal player has defended Brendan, in fact, Ryan’s not denied the stories and I don’t expect to see him do it now.
I haven’t seen maliciousness in Ryan’s ex-teammates. Skip’s comment was meant as praise. Lohse and Franklin were being interviewed and responded truthfully to the questions posed by media. If you ask me, the media types who keep harping on Ryan’s trade, insinuating that it spells the death of defense in StL are the ones who keep fueling the story.
And frankly, I think these steroids remarks about Jed are just more sour grapes by Brenda Defendas who seem incapable of admitting that his trade was a result of his own actions, not the doings or statements of others. For his sake, I hope Ryan is doing a better job accepting responsibility than some of his fans are.
Crdswmn-you just refuse to admit Brendan was a problem……………
blind and opionated.
You are so funny BW.
Darn, I saw the comment and thought you were talking to me.
My mistake-The comments are in Rotoworld .
Can you post a link, thanks?
Here ya go…
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/mlb/4128/brendan-ryan
Thanks HB. Here’s a link to the audio if anybody is interested. The Franklin interview is ‘segment 5′. The talk about Brendan starts about a third of the way in.
http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/RadioShows/ITDMorningAfter/tabid/88/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/6151/Fridays-Show-Audio.aspx
Besides the Seattle news link CC posted somewhere in the thread, the Franklin comment story is being picked up all over the place. Saw it on that KFFL site that Brian linked the other day, saw it on MSNBC, a bunch of blogs. It will probably bring some reaction from points within cardinal nation and maybe from Brendan.
KFFL, by the way, projects Colby to hit .259 with 28 dongs, one less that Holliday. Obviously, they didn’t get the memo.
Lets look at a problem……………… The Cardinals have a problem kid……..many would testify that he was a very talented and valuable asset…………….. a number of concerns came into focus.
AP…. Carp’s happiness not the least concern…………..
You decide to move him…………..this becomes a problem because……. SS are expensive……good ones are very expensive…………. if you trade a good one, you are expected to pay for a good one to replace him………….. as usual, the Cardinals took the cheap way out. They allowed their own player to become everyones excuse, they implied in their behavior that there were hidden issues that were mading it hard to turn him over. His market price plummeted…… they end up giving him away knowing that he would make their budget SS look bad on the field next year….Theriot was the budget guy that fit their itinerary, which furthered there efforts to just throw away BR to show he wasn’t any good……. Remember when Brendan went straight…… shaved the stash, pulled down the pants…….acted the role……..lets hope he starts that way in Seattle and ends up in a good place. Let him go….casualty of war……
The Cards could have gotten more for Ryan. But not from Seattle. The most remote corner of the baseball landscape. The destination was important. Out of sight out of mind.
And make him look as bad as possible as the excuse for giving him away. And apparently continue to reinforce it by asking players about it in the media so they can remind everyone who the scapegoat is.
Well, I wouldn’t mind looking bad for $1million this year and $1.75 next year. Happy for him.
I understand the Mariners are going to look at him at 2B this spring. They have a $5M a yr SS, and their prospect 2B is not ready yet. Wilson and Ryan would make a nice middle IF.
I watched that “not ready” prospect, Dustin Ackley, play in the Arizona Fall League and he looked great. In fact, he was the MVP of the league.
Dustin can flay out hit it. He is ready but we probably need to save some money somewhere so lets keep him down a while longer.
The Mariners are probably going to do that, and I actually think it’s a mistake for them-even considering the money. They have a deep pocket owner, a putrid offense, and antsy fans worried about the direction of the team.
Ackley could at the very least give the fans one more player to root for or be a catalyst for the offense. If I were the Mariners I would not hold him back for one more minute than he needs to be in the minors. If he shows well this spring, I might even open the season with him in the bigs.
Ryan has landed in good spot. Wilson’s a regular on the DL, and this is his last year under contract with the Mariners. Plus the Mariners absolutely require their shortstops to be an above average defensive player. If he can bat at least above automatic out level, he’s going to end up getting a lot of playing time there.
They may use BR to open……develop the property…….trade him at a profit in July, then bring up their boy saving a service year…….. good teams do that………
crd……there were issues……..but the fact is an organizations PR apparatus can paint you any color they want……..look at what they’ve done to AP. Just enjoy Brendan’s career from afar. I will.
I plan to Westy, and if he does well everyone here is going to hear about it until they can’t stand it any longer.
Crdswmn-if he stinks up the joint are you going to shut up?
He has really worked hard this off season and I believe he is gonna be really good. No matter, He will be happier and so will TLR so alls well that ends well.
He isn’t going to stink up the joint BW. If he plays his usual stellar defense, he will be successful. But you can dream BW. You certainly have a fertile imagination.
Things that make you go…. ‘hmmmmm’. This excerpt from a D. Goold article in the P-D yesterday…
‘For the first time since he put one down at the end of last season, St. Louis Cardinals center fielder Colby Rasmus picked up a bat Wednesday. He explained his winter without hitting by saying he’ll have plenty of time to find his swing this spring. The offseason was better spent making sure he’ll keep his strength for that swing deeper into the season. “Just wanted to get my body in good shape, get it ready for the whole season,” Rasmus said, “and be the best athlete here at camp.”
How does this jive with posts here this winter about the development of ‘Colby the slap hitter’?
Only advice I gave him HB……Don’t open your mouth about hitting. That will only help to give everybody something to write about and that will only cause a ruckus and have every reporter talking to you even more. I told you he has grown into one of the group. The truth is irrelevant, tell em something so that they leave you alone. I thought his comments were so nothing as to be unworthy of a story. Which is the plan.
HBT-it could be the slap hitter was hot air,BS and stirring the pot.
BW, I’ve missed you. Why panic, the games are coming and guess what? We’ll see what he does. And then we can all cry our eyes out about what he is doing.
But he almost went too far with his get in shape stuff, which was starting to sound like he was trying to lose weight…………..yikes! You can’t lose weight and keep hitting like you were hitting. Be a better athlete was good bland stuff though. He did a good job of saying nothing.
RCW-nice backpedal.
BW….at my age I can go just about as fast forward or backwards so I’m as good at one as the other. But the funny thing is the games are coming and then it will be evident what he is doing so why should I worry. Brother MLK once said, the truth will set you free.
RCW- sure ready for baseball.Tired of crappy weather .
We have been practicing 4-6 hours a day in wet and cold conditions and you can bet I’m ready for me some baseball. We open up on Feb 21 with a triple header, with 2 of the 3 teams having 3 SEC signees. Gonna be a battle but ready or not here we come.
If you have a facebook you can look at our team pic we had made just the other day. Each player had to spend around $700 on new uni’s. Here are the whites.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1691664846297&set=a.1618027525410.82631.1078032747&theater
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1691667646367&set=a.1618027525410.82631.1078032747&theater
I know you like movies HB so surely you saw Bull Durham. Generic quotes to the media, baby.
How many times do I have to tell you that ball players do not tell the media the truth? It can only hurt them. They say what sounds good.
RC knows this and he is teaching Colby the Bull Durham way. Good for him.
Sorry to jump in, but I have to ask. When Pujols refuses to talk about his contract, do you admire that as the “Bull Durham way”?
Its seems very easy to dismiss the baggage that AP is checking out/on here………… things have been very contentious since my arrival, between TLR/AP and BD/Mo…….. All factions must gain passage to this 2011 season, with what they’re dragging along…….. If you look closely………and see what they’ve packed……what they’re prepared for……..that tells you quite a bit about their intended destination……………
See what you can come up with………… I’ll start;
1) AP traveled with his agent to Atlanta to do the exploratory elbow surgery with Andrews…..for a reason…….he didn’t talk to the press for the entire off season……for a reason…… thats a carry on.
Not applicable Brian. The Bull Durham analogy was me being facetious, but when you listen to ball players do interviews the responses are remarkably similar. Would I like the players to tell the truth? In some circumstances yes, but that is unrealistic and you know it. The players tell the media what the fans want to hear and what sounds good period. The truth is irrelevant.
Translation—it doesn’t fit into my version of reality so I will ignore it.
Are you talking about yourself? This is exactly what you do here on multiple topics. TLR’s great managerial record… forgotten. Reporting by Joe Strauss about Brendan’s self-induced problems… dismissed as made up. Confirmation of that reporting by multiple teammates… inconvenient. You are the Queen of that very thing.
As for the ‘double standard’ matter generally… I gave the most common example used to back that claim… base-running by AP & Yadi. I didn’t address other items mentioned by RC since I’m unable to judge their validity. Those were his opinions which you’ve confused as factualy. They may be fact, maybe they’re not…. As for me, I’ll give them credence when I see them confirmed. Until then I’ll remain circumspect, given his obvious and open bias in some matters.
I’m not sure what your continued references to ‘a musing’ represent… Perhaps you think that ‘musing’ is synonymous with circumspection… but they are very different. To muse is to consider something deeply… to be circumspect is to carefully look around, to use caution and excercise prudence.
They may be fact but they’re not? Oxymoron there buddy.
YOU called RC’s comments “musings” so that is your reference, I was just commenting on it. Musing means to contemplate which is the verb I used. I don’t care about your verb, it is irrelevant.
A fact is not contemplated it is just a reality. As for seeing them confirmed I don’t believe a confession by TLR would confirm them for you. You do not want to know. The proverbial monkey with his hands over his ears.
I have never denied Brendan had problems so don’t go throwing that at me. I believe Joe Strauss makes things up but I never said he made that up only that he exaggerated it. You don’t appear to read my posts or you just see what you want to see (you also apparently can’t remember parts of your own posts). My problems with all the Brendan bashing is that it has been blamed for everything that went wrong with the Cardinals in 2010 which is a gross exaggeration, something which the media, TLR and the Cardinal PR are really good at when it suits them. And then players like Franklin piling on for what reason? Classless behavior imo.
You have been accused of ignoring facts by other people on this blog besides me HB, so that crown belongs to you, not me.
I can be rightly accused of ignoring opinions and some modern stats that do not have wide validity outside the Church of SABR-Metrics, but I don’t make a habit out of ignore proven or obvious facts. Without quoting RC, what fact can you provide that a double standard exists? Just one, if you can.
I see that I did use musings earlier… and had forgotten about it. That’s what happens when you post late at night!
But it doesn’t change a thing… you take what RC says as established fact, I tend to be more skeptical and circumspect about certain things he says. You think he’s getting inside info from Colby, I note that he’s said to me directly (and to others) that he doesn’t discuss the Cardinals with Colby. It’s difficult to square that with his Rosa Parks story or the story about who Colby hits with in batting practice last year. Maybe there’s a good explanation, and whatever it is, I’m sure you’ll buy it… hook, line and sinker.
The only players I’ve heard of who had tardiness problems were Colby (the July thing that led to his trade request) and Flip, who was let go for the same reason. Seems like one standard being applied to me. Tardiness is verboten… If you can provide evidence (not just RC’s word) on a double standard for tardiness or any other topic, please do so.
And speaking of those famous monkeys… you’re ‘see no’ and ‘hear no’ for sure on certain matters… but definitely not SPEAK NO!!
As discussed earlier, nobody associated with the team blamed Brendan for all the problems of 2010. TLR’s comments that Brian posted here weren’t bashing… they were truthful words about which middle infielder was most likely to be replaced. TLR didn’t get into the tardiness thing, he talked about Brendan’s struggles at the plate. Mo talked about improving team chemisty, but didn’t call BR a cancer or anything close to it. Strauss might have overstated the case a time or two in his chats, but his reporting was essentially correct. I don’t think BR was treated poorly, thrown under the bus, etc. He was traded, and for good and sufficient reasons, IMO.
HB, I would say the failure to run out routine grounders is evidence of a double standard. The catcher is often exempted for understandable reasons, and starting pitchers, but regular position players just aren’t normally allowed to get by with such visible sloth. Unless you are talking about a notorious slacker like Manny. Matt is the highest paid guy on the team and he runs them out.
Other than that, I would point out that in any kind of business I have ever been involved in over the years, the rainmakers are treated differently. A definite double standard. So what if its the same in baseball?
bb — I addressed that very point last night. See above under #12…
Yadi has knee problems. Albert has had a host of issues with feet and legs. They are told to play under control since it’s obviously more important to keep them in the lineup every day, than it is to run out meaningless ground balls with Little League enthusiasm. After all, Yadi is the best defensive catcher in baseball and Albert is among (if not THE) most feared hitter in baseball. You want those guys in the lineup all year.
Look at what happened to Mark Texiera in the playoffs last year. Busting it down the line on an IF grounder… pulled a hammy… out for the rest of the term.
It’s not favoritism or a double-standard, IMO, it’s an intelligent husbanding of key resources.
Which of the Cards starters would you say its ok to lose to a hammy from running out a routine grounder? Most players run when the ball is in play, not because anybody makes them. Stan ran them out. All of them. I asked by dad about that, he saw Stan hundreds of times over many years.
Yes, one of my dreams come true is Todd Coffey with the Cards. Can’t help it. Don’t care if he can get anybody out.
Albert runs them out on a sunday night ESPN game, its just fox midwest that gets the jog to prevent injury effort.
I love the Coffey run in Milwaukee. That was a fun thing to watch.
bb — I think Freese and Lance will also be instructed this year to stay within themselves and not take needless, low-payoff risks. Neither of them help the team while on the DL and both have known issues with their wheels… just like Yadi and AP.
You could be right HB. It could be down to Skip and Colby running them out. There will be a path worn peeling off for the dubout.
I have said this while watching the games. If I was on first when Yadi hit a ground ball I would peel off into right field, why go in hard at second and Yadi jog to first. Ridiculous. I’m hoping I get to see that at some time this year. Priceless.
What would happen if the runner just stayed on first and Yadi peeled off and went into the dugout? I guess its still a double play?
RC, somewhere above I mentioned that the fantasy site Brian linked the other day projects Colby hitting .259 with 28 homers, one less than they project for Matt. They didn’t hear about the new approach I guess. Also, from Colby’s comments I take it the home batting cage isn’t up and running yet.
Colby actually sent me about 3 hours of video today of his hitting down in Jupiter. He really looks different for sure. He is really trying to become a better hitter I believe. I think he will be disappointed if he only hits .259 this year as his goal is to be closer to .300. 28 jacks? I’ll take the under for $5000. way under. He won’t hit half of that number this year.
Home batting cage? We have had a hitting facility here in Phenix City at the Rasmus plantation for years, since Colby was 5 years old. You are not like HB are you Bling? Believing everything you read in the newspapers.
Ummmm, RC… that bit about the batting cage at Colby’s new digs came from YOU! And I haven’t taken a newspaper or news magazine in years.
Colby lives in Phenix City, right next door to me…..a nice little house on 6 acres with a fence around the entire thing. I’m thinking thats what Bling was speaking about. Colby doesn’t live in St. louis in the off season, so that wouldn’t be considered home.
So who are the players that have to hustle HB? The list is growing short it seems.
This ain’t Little League, RC, or HS ball… These guys are making big bucks and there’s more at risk than in your empire. All will be expected to hustle, intelligently…
Got it HB. Thanks for the clarification. Intelligent hustling is hustling when your game is on ESPN.
Every ground ball is meaningless until the fielder flubs his play.
Furthermore, if Pujols has such poor legs, then why is he so irrationally aggressive on the basepaths after he reaches first? The man has never seen an extra base that he wasn’t dying to take and every time Oquendo says stop, he runs even harder.
Nut — I think you’d agree that Albert is one of the most intelligent baserunners on the team. Not the fastest, but intelligently aggressive and only rarely wrongly aggressive. Scoring runs or stealing bases, in my view, are more productive areas for hustle from them than running out routine ground balls.
I get your point about fielding errors, but they’re a small percentage of total chances, as a numbers guy like you will certainly know. To me, it’s a cost-benefit thing…
AP and Yadi are established All-Star level players, the best in the league at what they do. They are key cogs that neeed to be protected. Along with the pitchers, I’d add Matt to that list as well. Nobody who’s paying attention should question their commitment to winning. They’ve proven it over and over again. I’m convinced they are doing exactly what they’ve been told to do. That $16M per year, and soon to be more if he signs, does the team no good on the DL.
And as I noted earlier… if rookies and others on the team are getting butt hurt because they aren’t instructd to do the same… well, that’s shame on them for petty jealousy. Got to keep the big picture in mind.
Nut — I think you’d agree that Albert is one of the most intelligent baserunners on the team. Not the fastest, but intelligently aggressive and only rarely wrongly aggressive. Scoring runs or stealing bases, in my view, are more productive areas for hustle from them than running out routine ground balls.
This is crap Tex……………… he just has the best change up in the league……..nobody knows what the hell he’s doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he could give a sh-t if he was thrown out…….he’s AP………fearless is not smart……..its “I don’t care”…………..
Westy — Who scored the most runs on the team last year? Twenty more than the nearest competitor? Yeah, let’s bench THAT guy because he doesn’t live up to some Little League conception about hustle.
We might disagree about what constitutes crap………………………………………………………..
he had 500 walks for Christs sakes…………. go to bed………..
No, I don’t at all agree that Albert is an intelligent baserunner whatsoever. (Though he’s not a bad base stealer, mind you.) He thinks that he is faster than he actually is, and people praise that aspect of his game because they praise every aspect of his game. The best player in the game is great at everything, right?
Its ok to hurt yourself in the accumulation of numbers to add to your resume, its not ok to hurt yourself on a ground out…….hell makes perfect sense to me HB.
The accumulation of RUNS is very important to the outcome of ballgames. Nobody on this team does more to produce runs that Albert. And outside of the pitchers, IMO, nobody does more to prevent runs than Yadier.
You’ve said a mouthful right there HB, and those two cats believe what you wrote as much as you do. Therein lies the problem with the cardinals.
Your two guys feel like they are soooo important as to not have to do anything everybody else does. There is your chemistry problem right there.
You addressed it…………. in what….. a pink polka dot poodle skirt………
!) Molina catches to much……period…..he has help this year. He stays in the lineup making himself way to important. Too many games in the crouch doesn’t make for fast running. Yadi has made himself a tactical target. People were pitching around a hitter every time just to get to at him. The entire team is forced to except the premise that this guy is on the cross for them……and thats BS………..notice Molina hasn’t done any press since he got here……..he can’t hide the AP sympathies with there resentments so he lies low……..Tony is forced to say in the paper that the new backup must know his place……and not press for playing time……LaRussa has been a damn hostage to these guys……..now that AP has raised his flag……Tony better stop the special considerations and start coaching……….. that goes for Colby too. Either he gets it done…..or he sits…….
This goes for AP too……….if you can’t leg it to first……..sit down until you can……
Tony has surrounded himself with hustlers………. I see Punto starting at 2nd or short by opening day………. it is no longer in Tony’s interest to be concerned about long term relationships. SF set Rowand down for a budget player who did a better job.
Westy, lets hear your thinking on something. Why give a guy nobody wants and is worth only a no-name prospect a two year contract, for 2.75?
TheRiot was signed within 48 hours after the 13% team share/ sales leak……….. he is no threat to propel the Cardinals anywhere is why he was signed………… he is part of the Pujols angry posture right now………… Punto’s agent went to TLR who lobbied for him just to back up that crappy move….entirely Tony’s play…… The 2yr’s make him more important that he is…because they say so……. this isn’t about baseball……….
the biggest heist that BD could orchestrate is having the privilege of signing or rejecting AP for 2012…………….if this team wins….and AP contributes mightily……he takes the worst beating possible…………… In my opinion…….no Cardinal starter goes wire to wire without at least a 15 day vacation……… Waino’s elbow is trouble in my opinion/experience.
Yea, I’m worried about Waino’s elbow. If that thing lasts the year I’ll be happy for him and the huge money he will get because of it. But there is a surgery looming unfortunately in the not too distant future.
Just curious. Have you guys ever heard of a player that experienced elbow discomfort that did not require surgery? I have, though I admit that I haven’t stayed at a Holliday Inn Express lately.
Even if Wainwright would require surgery, the Cardinals are almost sure to pick up his two option years as they are below market value. If it was TJS, it would mean 12 months on the shelf.
You know Brian, every pitcher has elbow soreness from time to time no matter what you do but forearm tightness has led to some sort of surgery a large majority of the time in my opinion. When they start saying their forearm is tight and they can’t get it loosened up its coming. Waino has had a small tear a few years ago and then the MRI this last year because of similar stuff. Now he has revamped his eating habits in an attempt to change the way he does things because this year is important for the two options and he knows that the elbow is barking. I’m hoping for the best but it wouldn’t surprise me if Waino has to have surgery in the next year or two. I hope I’m wrong.
Thanks for the clarification. There has been vagueness as to the source of the problem(s). As you say, we shall see.
Source?????????? Do you see the way he holds his curve? Its the way to throw that monster, but that monster feeds a little every time he lets it go…………..
Do you really pick up $22-$23 million in an option for one year of Wainwright (assuming he would miss 2012)? You are going to pay that much for 1 year of a guy coming off elbow surgery? I don’t think so!
It is $21 million for 2012-13. My guess is they would try to negotiate an extension that would encompass those years.
Couldn’t remember just how much it was but wrapping it into an extension is a far cry from picking up what would essentially be one year (coming off of surgery) at that price.
But in reality, didn’t those extensions become guaranteed with his top 5 Cy Young finish or does that require he not finish 2011 on the DL?
Lot depends on when injured. There is a question about the vesting clauses, as I recall. My bottom line is that even if Wainwright was to be out for a year, the Cards would do their best to keep him.
I agree with you Brian, I also believe Adam would be signed even if he had surgery.
I’ll beat Westie to the punch as I know he’ll jump on these comments as a slip of the tongue by MacPhail in the big conspiracy theory.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/02/macphail_on_ripken_internation.html
“I’ll give you a different take on that as I try to evade that question the best I can. There is this assumption that because this guy got [a huge number] and this guy got [an even bigger number] Albert Pujols has to get [a salary bigger than both]. Well what if there are no bidders? What if the music stops and there are no chairs? Let’s say Pujols signs with St. Louis. Where does Prince Fielder go? Do you want to make that bet on Prince Fielder at $20 million per as opposed to Teixeira? I’ll be honest with you, the likelihood of us stepping out to the degree that [Pujols] is looking at, for any one player, is remote at best. I read that he’s looking for $30 million a year, and I just can’t see how that’s going to happen. Now, I’m management. I’m not ownership. I make recommendations. I don’t own the team. But I just think with what you have to do, I can’t see it. “
The best thing that could happen to the Orioles would be Albert rolling through town with the Yanks or Sox. Their team isn’t much of a draw, but their opposition is prime time.
Further down in the story MacPhail talks about how a certain pair of season tickets at Camden Yards cost $5,000 and a similarly sited pair at Yankee stadium cost $57,000.
Nature has conspired to make this a fragrant and beautiful spring day. Everything is blooming.
Pujols has not responded well to challenges in my experience. I hope Tony is willing to make the adjustments………….. AP hitting forth is still optimum…….. if he slumps, does Tony do whats necessary, or does AP still get the Prima-Madonna treatment………..is he going to be treated like a franchise player…….if he isn’t going to be one?
Poor Westy… even NATURE is danged CONSPIRACY!!
har…..good one
If Tony is alive and managing the Cardinals Albert will do what he pleases.
RC — Perhaps you forget that little incident in the dugout last year when Albert was pouting because TLR gave Ludwick a steal opportunity while AP was batting. TLR let him know he was still the boss…
Did Tony give any more steal signs with Albert at the plate?
If he had Tony would be managing the Mets this year.
Bingo………
bb — I have no doubt who is the field marshal of this team. Albert may be a colonel, but he isn’t the the boss… Does he take liberties with Oquendo? No doubt. And more often than not, he’s right. I don’t think anyone who knows TLR’s style really believes he isn’t the man in charge on the field… locker room may be a different story.
Are you serious? Why would Tony say anything, he knows he doesn’t boss Albert around. Albert ripped Tony a new one, and Tony rambled on about knowing how to manage. ha ha. Saturday night comedy HB, and good comedy at that.
RC — I can’t figure out whether you been hanging out with Westy too long… or vice versa…
I’m reminded of that old game called telephone, where one person whispers somthing to a person and the process continues aroud the room… then you compare the original remark with the last one in the chain. They’re never the same and often shockingly different. That’s why second-hand information, or third-hand, or lower is always somewhat unreliable.
If you ain’t in the room… and you’re talking about what’s going on in the room… it’s just gossip, filtered through a lens of one person’s point of view. Who’s to say that that person’s viewpoint is full, fair and accurate? It may be to him… may not be to others.
HB, Believe what you want to believe, I’m not trying to convince you to believe what I write on here. Its like I’ve stated many times, in a room full of people who know nothing the person who knows something looks like the dummy. I play the dummy on here. The truth about a lot of things is not something you really would want to hear. So just continue to believe what you want. Its a happier place in the dark, the light shows a lot of dirty things that aren’t fun to look at.
RC — I’m just not into the gossip… we leave that to the women-folks here in Texas.
You have a point of view and biases that are easily detectable. I enjoy reading you. It’s part of why I post and hang out here. But I’m not as gullible as some… as I’ve said many times, I’m a skeptic by nature… I listen, read and observe, I question, and I make up my own mind about things. I’m not easily manipulated and I like to do my own thinking.
I have a standard for determining truth… and enough experience in this world to know that truth is rarely found listening to just one side of any argument. As Don Henley so famously sang… there’s your side, and my side, and the cold, hard, truth. Words to live by…
I know Don Henley Tex………………and you are no Don Henley…………
I knew Lloyd Bentsen… Lloyd Bentsen was a friend of mine… and you’re no Lloyd Bentsen.
Ain’t that the truth………………
You’re a smart guy HB. So you think I’m trying to manipulate you? What would be the benefit? If you really knew me you would know that I’ll tell you things that are true that no other person would dare tell you. And the truth many times is so outside of what people could ever conceive as being possible as to seem to be completely crazy. To get your point across in the world that we live one must put the truth out there and then be able to pull back so as to make what you said hazy. Then the people you want to hear what you said hear it but the masses consider it folly.
I have said this many times too HB, I like Albert as a player and think he is the best hitter in the game. But I wouldn’t give you a dime for his leadership qualities because I would be overpaying. That is my problem with him. Nothing more. TLR allows his team to be split right down the middle by showing favoritism. I’m just betting Albert has been late 50 times more than Brennan ever was. But Albert can hit so its ok. I think that is a crock of crap as far as building a team goes. Its fine for allowing Albert to work on building a HOF resume but it will kill any chance of building a winning team.
But really, I’m just making that up because I soooo long for your acceptance.
check this out, Bernie so much as echos my comments.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_26a3facc-ccbe-5a32-8495-1e70d6dc4c99.html
That was good article. Good for Bernie.
Bernie usually gets bashed around here. I guess we like him when he says what we like.
Did anyone notice who wrote the “Is Pujols worth it?” article in todays PD. Tim Logan. If you don’t know the name its because he is not a sports writer. He’s a business reporter. Writes for the front page and business section.
There are a lot of Cards fans who don’t read the sports, especially during the off season. So its a good idea to reach out, get the message out to a broader audience.
Here is the link to the Tim Logan story bb mentioned.
I thought the part about how $30M would make him the highest paid person in St. Louis was a good touch. A comparison that will be meaningful to all.
Thanks Brian. I forgot the link due to Albert fatigue.
word……………………………
After reading the “Bernie”…………I just had a big laugh. He reads here…….
Bernie screams at the top of his lungs…..in a crowded smoke filled theater….. one that he has recently set ablaze……” everyone stay calm” over a blaring orchestra, lost somewhere in a grand Rossini finale…..
Westy — I agree about Bernie… First it was ‘pay the man’, then he backed off that stand, now he’s saying Albert will be a greedy cad to leave… He’s covered all the bases.
He’s no reporter. He’s a mirror. He reflects and bends his opinions to the public will as he observes it… running in front of the parade to appear to be the leader of it.
Your standard for determining the truth is what goes along with what you want to believe. You don’t look at both sides, you look at one, yours. It is obvious from your posts. You can’t see it, but everyone else does (except BW).
I have a bias against TLR and I don’t deny it. Almost everything I say about him reflects that bias. But, I don’t ignore facts. TLR has been successful with the Cardinals in the last 12 or so years I don’t dispute that. I don’t blame him for things that are not under his control, like injuries. I don’t question every move he makes on the field. I admire his work with the ARF foundation. I think he is a brilliant but very flawed man. Not everything I think about him is negative.
Part of why I don’t like TLR is based on my own observations. I can’t know what goes on in his head nor can I know what he says and does in the clubhouse. I hear what he says in the media, I see what he does on the field, I listen to what other people who know more than me say (like RC and Brian) and then I judge accordingly. I even have occasionally praised something about him (it has been a while but I have done it).
You NEVER say anything even remotely negative about TLR. You defend his every move, his every word and sometimes contradict yourself to do it. I truly believe that you just can’t see that you are doing it. Someone who looks at both sides does not take the same position 100% of the time like you do. You are like a robot who is programmed to automatically defend something to the death.
You were not on the blog during most of the season last year when we all dissected every game. This year I will be interested to see if you ever admit that TLR screwed up on something or will you defend it no matter what. Perhaps then we can both really take each other’s measure.
Crdswmn-A lawyer talking about bias and determining truth.Now thats funny.
Crdswmn -and you are like the 6 year old kid whing because you can`t have it the way you want it.Your anti-TLR agenda is would be laughable if it wasn`t so freaking tiresome.Just because you yell the loudest it doesn`t mean you are right.Nobody says TL.R is perfect and doesn`t screw up.He just isn`t the ANTI-CHRIST you and some others whine about.Get a grip.
I see you didn’t check into that anger management counseling like I suggested.
crdswmn — I’m the antipode to your robotic TLR attack mechanism. I defend him here since there is so much unwarranted and unfair commentary directed at him. I’ve cast myself in the role of one who provides balance to the discussion. The other side is already well covered… with you in the starring role!
Like Ginger on Gilligan’s Island!
At the same time, I don’t think TLR is perfect and I do criticize things he does at times, when I disagree with him. For instance, during the 20-inning fiasco, on another site, I was hard on his decision to pull Holliday from the 4-hole and replace him with a pitcher, leading to Albert being walked 3-4 times as the game went on. And there have been other things as well.
My complaints with him are primarily tactical in nature… and there are few tactical matters that occur during the off-season.
Umm casting director is not one of your strong suits. Casting you as the “balanced” party would be like casting John Goodman to play George Clooney. I’d stick with your day job.
Balance to you, crdswmn… and giving you an outlet for venting, which is probably cheaper than therapy!!
You’re too complex to be Mary Ann and too young to be Mrs. Howell!!
Damn, missed lots of fun last night.
I’ve come to the conclusion that Tex is really a scribe for the PD (or should be) – I just haven’t figured out which one yet.
Of course Tex doesn’t believe second hand info – except when it fits his agenda.
CC — I’m not Cards57 (as Westy thought) or a writer for the P-D. I’m Rick James, beyotch!
(BIll James’ little brother).
Never said I don’t believe second hand information at all… just said I tend to be circumspect about it and look for verification. I’m especially wary of commens RC makes about TLR and Albert, since he’s obviously got himself a bright shiny axe he’s grinding relative to them. He don’t like them because they been mean to his boy… in his view.
And just what is my ‘agenda’ CC, other than keeping you in Batavia, where the severe cold and lake-effect snow off Lake Erie makes the tape holding your glasses together malfunction?
Well said HB.
One of your better moments Tex……….. you’re our new Jumbo.
Some bad news………every guy/player out there is going to have an ax blade shinning this year. BD is counting on it.
Oddly enough… when reading back in the archives, I often found Jumbo’s contbutions to be those I most agreed with… and also CC’s. I’m not the ‘new Jumbo’… I’m my own man who happens to share some of his opinions.
Common Jumbo……….. get back in it. Like Maverick (Thomas Cruise) in “Jets from Hell” or what ever that was.
Molina and Tony staying very low profile………. they know their roles…………
If they do make the 190 public on Tuesday……..this is Colby’s chance RC…….have him stand up and shout………” if he doesn’t take that, well then, go some where else”………….
on second thought………………………………….
I wish Colby would come out and say if Albert doesn’t want to be here in St. Louis we need to find him somewhere else to go.
That would be so classic – maybe you (RC) can tap in to one of your vast media contacts
and hint that they should write a story line about the irony of Albert saying that to Colby and then not yet signing an extension.
RC — I imagine this is the part of Bernie’s piece you agree with…
‘… Pujols is a baseball god in St. Louis. He runs the show. He can do what he wants here… He can live comfortably without a bunch of meddling reporters crowding his space… He has a comfortable routine… privacy, and makes his own rules… Does Pujols really want to start all over again… Does he want to… fit his personality into a clubhouse that might have an entirely different vibe than the workspace he controls in St. Louis? Suppose his new manager… enforces the rules and makes Pujols run out ground balls or pay attention to the third-base coach?…’
But Bernie also said this, which your previous posts tell me you might not agree with…
“… Pujols is the kind of man who wants us to believe he’s different. That he stands for the right things. That he’s honorable. That he’s clean and doesn’t use steroids. That he cares about the community, afflicted children, and those who endure hardship. That he’s a sincere man of God. That he’s been put on this earth to use baseball as a platform to fulfill a higher purpose. All of that makes him worthy of our admiration … unless, of course, he turns out to be just another greedhead motivated to chase every last dollar in some egomaniacal race to displace A-Rod at No. 1 on the contract power ratings. Really, I don’t think Pujols is like that…’
Needless to say, Bernie isn’t reporting. He’s a dealer in opinion, just like we are. When he says (and you say) Albert ‘runs the show’, can ‘do what he wants’, and controls his work space… this is grossly over-simplified and exaggerated. Does he rule in the clubhouse? Probably so, but on the field of play and in the dugout, TLR is king, not Albert. I gave you a specific example of this from last year when AP overstepped the line and was pushed back.
Does TLR give Albert, a key veteran, wide latitude? No doubt, in some things, but there are limits. Is this the source of disruption to team chemistry you claim it to be? If so, then IMO the blame lies with those whose envy and petty jealousy make it so.
I think AP is following the instructions he’s been given about running out ground balls… to stay within himself and not take unecessary risks. Is that evidence of a double standard or of a single standard, that is, the single standard of following the guidance and instructions of the manager, who decides what’s best on a case-by-case and player-by-player basis?
One day, if he stays healthy, continues to improve (and if you don’t screw it up for him)
, Colby will be that trusted veteran, a guy who gets wider latitude because he’s shown over the years that he can be trusted to to the right thing, consistently, without direction. It’ll be interesting to see where you stand on things when that day rolls around.
HBT-you are hitting bulleyes today.Keep firing away.The petty jealously and envy was perfect and probably hit a nerve.
And let me just say, on the Pujols contract issue, I lean toward management. I’ll always have respect for Albert as a ballplayer, but if he demands top dollar and leaves to find it elsewhere despite his claims that it’s not about money but about winning, and in spite of him saying he wants to be a Cardinal for life… then he will lose my respect for him as a man and for exactly the reasons Bernie outlined.
Character, not CASH, Albert!!!
Well RC there you have it. It appears HB is all knowing, he certainly has told us he is.
Does omnipotence have a downside HB? I’m just curious.
I’ve made no claims to omnipotence… nor said I’m all-knowing. I’ve given my opinion, which is based on my reading, listening, observation and questioning…
As usual, your reaction to things you disagree with are sincerely overstated.
Aw HB you just don’t’ get my humor.
Yep… have to admit I missed it there!
I do kind of feel like I just stumbled up on the burning bush. Hell I’ve been outside with my stone tablets, hammer, and chisel since HB’s post.
Don’t forget your lighter, RC. Hard to get those bushes to ignite rubbing sticks together.
HB, no need for a lighter, you are on fire man. You are speaking to us from the burning bush. After reading your post I stood up from my computer and my wife passed out. When she came to she said your hair is white, what happened? I said to her, verily I said unto her, I haveth been in the presence of the lord thy GOD.
Crap, fugged that up. And it was gonna be really funny.
But just for my benefit.
Verily I say unto thee, I haveth been in the presence of the lord thy GOD.
Where is the freakin edit button when you need it?
Tex…………… you best rein it in a bit……….. I “know” you are wrong on many of your points. You have a very poor vantage point I’d venture a guess……compared to some. Because you are being entertained……. know the boundaries of good taste and polite behavior…………
Westy — The boundaries of good taste and polite behavior restrict me from responding to you in an appropriate manner…
Don’t hold back HB, anything can be said amongst friends.
Have a seat then.
If Colby ends up acting like Albert Pujols I will be sorely disappointed. I’d much rather Colby be the real thing like Adam Wainwright who is a team guy and superb human being when the cameras are not on him.
Every man has a course or pathway they find themselves on RC…….. AP has challenges. While I see the easiest course for many is to have him go elsewhere……..the sonbit-h has game. The shame is/was that BD is an azz whole and hired Tony back in here, for the reason that is now becoming apparent even to the slow witted. A new coach, a new contract, lets kick some ass………but that was/is not the plan. This situation has been in the planning for a while………. Tony will eventually be compelled to stretch his new leash a bit and make a statement……….has to be coming soon.
I don’t think anybody ever has or can challenge Alberts game. He can hit it like not many ever in the game. Man if he would just lead this bunch they could be good, but its just not his thing. as great of a hitter he is he is that poor of a leader. It just boggles the mind.
And there is no doubt Tony is gonna be extra Tony this year. I look for fireworks.
where does it end HB, should he not have to attend team meetings? arrive when he wants while every other person has a time to be there? Its obvious that many take liberties because they see him do it. If you think the best way to develop camaraderie is too let certain people come and go when they want then I’m guessing you have never played a team sport. Its obvious the current system is not working but lets watch it another year because it makes for some fine entertainment.
Tex would be right if this was an individual game…but it is not. Players influence each other and their performance – particularly when you are the star player.
As for watching for another year……that’s probably the max time we will have to watch it.
I’ve said it. Albert would be a hell of a golfer.
The off-season strategy once again is to get a new posse and hope they don’t ride off into the sunset at crunch time like the last one did. Make that the last two. That’s entertainment.
From what RC says, it sounds like Colby will be riding for the brand this year. At least starting off. I admire that. Especially since he might be able to make some money next year. And I’m not talking about a two year deal in the goolag.
It might work this year, but it might not. Hopefully, everyone can agree that this should be an interesting year.
After viewing his hitting vids that he sent me I’m not optimistic that he can do what he wants but I do commend him for trying.
RC don’t you understand, the Lord God of Texas has spoken that none of those things goes on? Albert does not take liberties. There is no double standard. Everyone is treated equally by that man among men TLR. You must bow down and be humble RC.
It sure is funny watching the RC posse scramble when their orthodoxy is challenged. Oh what moaning, wailing, and gnashing of teeth it evokes! Bushes burn and the Gods maketh the earth to quake and belch forth the dead!
It’s an odd little posse… RC is the Lone Ranger, clearly the leader, little black mask and pants entirely too tight for 2011. Crdswmn is his trust Tonto… saying, ‘yes, kemo sabe’ at all the appropriate times and of course throwing in an occasional, ‘me hatum TLR, heap big!’
And then there’s Westy… who plays Silver in the RCposse… well, at least the south end of a northbound Silver!
I can just hear RC now… Hiyo Westy! Away!!! 
Good stuff HB, Had the kids in my room saying what’s so funny Coach Rasmus because I was laughing out loud.
Here’s where you and I are different HB, You believe what you believe and thats awesome that you will hold the line on your thoughts. But I know the truth so you really aren’t challenging anything.
Oh and BTW that should be Tonta not Tonto since I am female. You live in Texas, you should know better.
Stop being so picky and just go with it, crdswmn… Stuff a sock down your buckskins and pretend your’re Tonto!!!
Crdswmn-don`t need to.Wasn`t angry.Just pointing out some facts.