The long-time manager-pitching coach duo will be back leading the St. Louis Cardinals in 2011 despite a difficult 2010.
As the disappointing 2010 season came to its end for the St. Louis Cardinals, the level of ongoing speculation over the future of manager Tony La Russa increased substantially.
Coming off a playoff year in 2009 after two previous misses, La Russa’s 2010 club underachieved. They had entered the season as the clear divisional favorite, but fate led to a very different conclusion. The 86-win Cardinals finished in second place, five games behind Cincinnati and did not qualify for a Wild Card, either.
The winter prior, the future Hall of Fame skipper signed his first-ever one-year deal with the team and hinted his managerial days were nearing an end. Still, with 126 more wins needed to claim second-place on MLB’s all-time managerial list, La Russa’s 2011 return was expected by many.
The most important coach on the Cardinals staff is clearly pitching guru Dave Duncan, a constant at the manager’s side for almost three decades in Chicago, Oakland and St. Louis. La Russa had stated previously that Duncan expressed interest in coaching longer than he wanted to manage.
As the regular season concluded with no new contract announcements, there may have been as much or more speculation about Duncan’s future as La Russa’s.
The pitching coach would be a highly-desirable commodity if he chose to make a new start, with or without La Russa. Scribes from across the country wondered aloud about the improvements the pitching expert might inspire if wearing the local uniform.
On October 15, Duncan declared his hand but raised his bet at the same time, stating that he would like to remain with the Cardinals for three more years rather than coach just one more year for St. Louis and elsewhere for the next two. This created an apparent mismatch with La Russa’s more short-term desires.
During this time, the winningest manager in franchise history was playing his normal contractual give and take with the Cardinals that culminated in an October 18 announcement. La Russa would return for 2011 on a one-year deal. A relatively meaningless mutual option for 2012 was also included.
In a departure from past La Russa deliberations, contracts for his coaching staff were not announced at the time of the manager’s decision. Perhaps the Duncan multi-year request was taking extra time to accommodate.
There may have been at least one other complication. One announcement that was made in conjunction with La Russa’s return was the firing of bullpen coach Marty Mason, Duncan’s right-hand man.
The long-time Cardinals employee was separated over his ongoing remarks critical of the organization’s player development processes. Interestingly, this summer Duncan had been quoted making similarly-themed comments, stating that the farm system could not support a championship club.
When all was said and done, the parties apparently worked out any major differences. On October 25, the club announced that Duncan agreed to terms on a two-year contract with a mutual option for the 2013 season.
Duncan will be entering his 16th season as the Cardinals pitching coach, and his Major League record 32nd season overall as a pitching coach. The staff finished fourth in the National League in team ERA this past season while ranking second in both fewest walks and home runs allowed. Adam Wainwright became the team’s fourth 20-game winner under Duncan’s tutelage.
La Russa’s 2010 ups and downs
Perhaps at no time in his 15 seasons as Cardinals manager had La Russa been questioned as often as during this year. It began with his controversial hire of Mark McGwire and continued as the offense under his first-year hitting coach came was inconsistent for most of the season. Many felt the club lacked timely hitting which put more pressure on the pitchers.
The manager utilized his pitcher hitting eighth approach 76 times during the season and penned 144 different lineups over 162 games. Whether that can be explained as La Russa doing everything possible to exploit matchups or incessant tinkering is a point of debate for some.
A number of those lineup changes were necessitated by roster turnover. After trying a number of minor league prospects, both pitchers and position players, the organization turned to a series of major leaguers cut loose by other clubs. In-season additions included Aaron Miles, Randy Winn, Jeff Suppan and Mike MacDougal.
While La Russa encourages aggressive baserunning, the Cardinals lost over 100 runners on the bases, too often due to poor decision-making by the players.
His name made the papers in several off-field situations, drawing complaints from some quarters. La Russa came out in support of Arizona legislation calling for tougher enforcement against illegal immigrants. In the midst of a rough August road trip, La Russa gave an introductory speech for a humanitarian award bestowed upon Albert Pujols at a large Washington, D.C. rally. Despite non-political intentions stated by all, involvement in the event caused some ill will.
Around that same time, the manager divulged to the press that Colby Rasmus had requested a trade both in 2009 and 2010, setting off a firestorm of controversy about the clubhouse environment past and present. He later made comments critical of Brendan Ryan prior to the shortstop’s trade to Seattle. The manager also reportedly lobbied for the signing of outfielder Lance Berkman.
Putting all that aside, the bottom line is winning.
The 66-year-old has guided the Cardinals to a franchise record 1,318 victories since joining them in 1996. La Russa has led the team to eight division titles (1996, 2000-02, 2004-06 and 2009), two National League pennants (2004, 2006) and the organization’s 10th World Championship title in 2006.
La Russa currently ranks third on MLB’s all-time managerial wins list with 2,638, trailing only Connie Mack (3,731) and John McGraw (2,763). La Russa is second all-time in games managed with 4,935, including stints with the Chicago White Sox (1979-86) and Oakland A’s (1986-95). He ranks first on the Cardinals all-time games managed list with 2,429 and his 15 years of continuous service is also tops among all Cardinals managers.
La Russa’s Cardinals teams have finished above .500 in 12 of his 15 seasons. They recorded 105 wins in 2004 and 100 wins in 2005, making La Russa just the second Cardinals manager to oversee two 100-win seasons. Billy Southworth guided the Cardinals to three consecutive 100-win seasons from 1942-44. La Russa and Sparky Anderson are the only managers to have led both a National and American League team to World Series titles.
During La Russa’s 15 years at the Cardinals helm, the team has surpassed three million in attendance a dozen times, including a franchise record 3,552,180 fans in 2007. His Cardinals teams have finished no lower then third place in all but three seasons.
La Russa’s Cardinals clubs posted a National League-best 913 wins during the decade of the 2000s, winning a league-leading 33 postseason games during that same time period.
For those and many other reasons, La Russa and Duncan will be back in 2011 for another run.
Link to The Cardinal Nation Blog’s top 20 stories of the year countdown
Loading ...Follow me on Twitter.
Follow The Cardinal Nation Blog on Facebook.
[...] 9. The fight in Cincinnati 8. The real Man 7. Adam the new ace 6. The Penny/Lohse injuries 5. La Russa and Duncan return 4. 3. 2. [...]
While my preference would be that he resign before ST I picked two years. That would equal the amount of time it would take him (if he’s lucky) to satisfy his ego and pass John McGraw in wins.
BTW HB, if the Cardinals win the WS in 2011, I will give TLR all the credit he deserves.
It still won’t make me like him though. 
crdswmn — As I tried to say on the Whitey thread… TLR will never be loved like the White Rat was, but you have to respect his accomplishments even if you don’t like him.
Excluding relative short-timers like Vern Rapp, Kenny Boyer & Joe Torre, the Cards managers I’ve grown up with and respect the most are Red, Whitey and TLR. Red is the living embodiment of Cardinals history spanning the 1940′s to the 1970′s… the quintessential quiet man. I don’t know if I’d recognize his voice if I heard him speak. Whitey didn’t have those deep Cards ties, but he had the Midwestern thing down cold. He was one of us. And did you notice that TLR won that poll?
While my preference would be that TLR stays as long as he likes.That would really tick off some people.BTW Crdswmn if the Cards win the WS in 2011 i will give TLR plenty of credit.It won`t make dislike him. Watch Crdswmn your bias is showing thru again.Show me a manager who doesn`t want to go higher on thecareer wins ladder.I am wondering where the manager is who doesn`t care about winning?
I’ve never been afraid of showing my bias BW. I am proud of it.
Crdswmn- whatever floats your boat.
This is only story #5? It’s not #1? I thought there can’t be a Cardinal team if LaRussa and Duncan left it. They are the only two people in the history of the world that know anything about managing and coaching pitching! The Cardinals would cease to exist if they weren’t here! Whatever would we do? NO ONE COULD EVER REPLACE LARUSSA! No one!
Actually, I’m concerned about going forward with LaRussa at the helm. He is the sour, dour, unsmiling, whiny face of the franchise. I desperately think they need a new face, a new image if you will. The “old” old school types didn’t fare very well last season, that includes Torre, Pinella, LaRussa, and Leyland. They all had teams that should have performed better than they did in my opinion. Cox is exempt from that group-he got an awful lot out of very little-the Braves were the little engine that couldn’t be stopped until they finally ran out of gas. But the Braves never quit, they just weren’t good enough in the end. I think Charlie Manual is older than all of them, but he’s different. Charlie is more of a “new wave” old school guy-more like Cox I would say.
Bw52, it does tick me off that LaRussa is still here. I just don’t see him as all that exceptional anymore. He’s also very expensive to keep around in salary and the kind of players he requires be brought in.
MM- You’re my kind of guy.
Welcome. 
I for one hope Tony stays in St. Louis for the next 6-10 years. He and Albert are the face of the franchise and the team is a reflection of Tony. TLR needs to be allowed to retire in his own time.
You are not a Cardinal fan so your vote doesn’t count.
If I recall the story…………………. they will nail up the messiah before they would even consider having anything but goat for dinner………………..these Romans are set in their ways…….
In 2011, Marty Mason is going to coach for the Cubs at the AA level.
I think a little clarification is in order… When Brian said ‘the manager divulged to the press that Colby Rasmus had requested a trade both in 2009 and 2010, setting off a firestorm of controversy’, to me, that makes it sound like TLR offered that information up unbidden.
That wasn’t the case at all according to the P-D. Perhaps a better word than ‘divulged’ would have been ‘confirmed’, as it was first reported in the Post.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_8502a8c6-b919-11df-94e8-0017a4a78c22.html
The press had the information already and confronted both TLR and Colby with it, looking for confirmation or denial. TLR confirmed it. Colby initially denied it and was clearly ill-at-ease fielding questions when initially confronted, but did better in subsequent days. And Albert was dragged into the mess, making comments re: Colby that were reproduced here a few days ago.
Clearly, that was not public information and had to have been leaked by someone inside the organization, or perhaps by a relative… ahem, of someone inside the organization. I’ve seen crdswmn suggest that TLR was the source, but I always felt he was the target. And I don’t see Colby as a press sophisticate, so I don’t believe he was the source either.
My initial read was that it had come from the Luhnow camp… part of the wider organizational dispute that was then raging with finger-pointing all around about a season gone bad. There was open speculation in the paper that TLR was going to resign, he was under a steady drum beat of attack, and a few days later Jeff Luhnow was ‘demoted’. There was a lot going on.
We’ll never know for sure who was the source… unless the source fesses up, which is highly unlikely. But no doubt it was damaging and a distraction to the team in early September.
Let me start off by readily agreeing that is impossible to know precisely who did what and when.
Here is my take. Ideally, a field manager would not confirm trade rumors which are always more appropriately handled by the front office. This manager has readily admitted that he does not always tell the whole truth (sometimes for very good reasons I am sure). That is not unique to him as it can be important for survival in a difficult job.
Yet in this case, the rumor was confirmed rather than denying, stating no knowledge or no-commenting.
I see your point… but a ‘no comment’ would likely have been the worst answer he could have given, IMO, it would have only further fueled and extended a bad situation. The Post actually praised TLR for not denying it or lying about it in a later story.
I disagree. It was not a “bad situation” as far as any of us knew until the story ran in the press. Of course, the paper was happy because their scoop was confirmed. I hope you are not confusing praise from the newspaper with doing what is best.
Well, we disagree. That the story was in the press at all at a time when the team had a month to play and was still in a pennant race was a significant distraction. It was going to be a story regardless of TLR’s or Colby’s answer… the only question being the headline… whether it would read ‘confirmed’, ‘denied’, or ‘no-comment’.
By addressing it head-on, lancing the boil so to speak, the story’s impact was shortened IMO, and its ability to distract the team from the work at hand… playing baseball… limited. To deny or no-comment would have given the story longer legs and additional headlines.
Everybody loves a mystery…
Inherent in your view is an unfounded assumption that the story would have run anyway solely based on a suspicion from an unnamed source. Without a big name behind it, it was simply a trouble-making rumor. The paper needed substantiation before they could run it or risk a backlash against them as being muckrakers. The manager obliged.
When Mozeliak was asked, he said he had not been approached about a trade. Was that a denial, the truth, a partial truth, a lie, a diversion, an attempt to diffuse the situation or some combination?
Further, did the press ask the manager if the player had requested a trade the year prior as well or was that actually “divulged”?
You are surely welcome to hold the view that the manager’s comments were helpful, but I am not going to agree.
Brian… this extract come from the Strauss article linked below… ‘Responding to a report in Sunday editions of the [P-D] that Rasmus had requested a trade, [TLR] acknowledged the incident but suggested underlying issues that fed the request had since eased.’
That reads to me like the story had already been printed and TLR was being asked to respond to it. I agree that he didn’t need to mention 2009 or go into any specifics, though I do think that information would have followed eventually in any event… the cat was out of the bag.
I’ve never noticed any aversion to muckraking at the Post, in fact, some there seem to revel in it. Controversy makes good copy and sells papers.
Certainly, we can disagree without being disagreeable.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_ebd4167b-c5d6-5e39-9bdd-cc5afc58637b.html
That story had been kicking around for two months prior HB. The story came out and was confirmed by TLR at a time when he was taking a lot of heat over the Glenn Beck rally. TLR knows what he is doing HB, make no mistake about it. However, your naivete is charming as always.
Can you provide a link? I never saw it reported, even as a rumor, prior to September, but I’m willing to listen if I missed it. Sorry, but I don’t consider hatred of all things TLR to be at all charming, or the absence of it to be an indication of naivete.
HB, you live in Texas. I live in Missouri. Which one of us do you think is more likely to hear rumors about the Cardinals? The rumor was there but was unconfirmed until someone decided to confirm it so the story could be printed. Even Joe Strauss listens to the PD lawyers. The timing of the “coming out” couldn’t have benn more perfect for TLR coming just days after the protests in St. Louis over TLR’s and AP’s attendance at the GB rally. 2+2=4 my friend. Or do you need a link to prove that too?
Perhaps naivete was a bit harsh.
crdswmn — Neither of us live in St. Louis, though all my family and a number of my friends live within 40 miles of there and I talk to them regularly about the Cards. In addition, I read widely over this internet thingy, and through it have nearly the same access to info about the team as anyone. Plus, I’ve been blogging Cards for 3 years and ‘talk’ with Cards fans across the country every day. Never heard a peep about a Colby trade request until September and note you didn’t provide anything showing otherwise.
I’ve had 5 math classes at Calculus & above, so I’m comfortable accepting 2+2=4 without further proof. However, I can’t say the same about GB+AP+TLR+CR+PD=Conspiracy. That one requires more than mere suspicion to persuade. My tinfoil hat, complete with the holes I poked in it with a fork, protect me completely from such thinking!
If I was inclined to think conspiratorily, I’d be more apt to think that the issue was used to ‘set up’ both TLR and AP for further attacks… or to wonder if that GB business was a factor in AP receiving just one 1st place vote for MVP, despite having amassed better counting stats than Votto in nearly every category. But I wouldn’t claim such things to be true unless I knew for sure they were… and I don’t.
You misunderstood me HB. The rumor that I was talking about was that the PD knew about the Colby trade request for almost two months and sat on it until they could get it confirmed. Their confirmation miraculously came within a week of the protests. I never said I heard a rumor about the trade request itself.
If it walks like a duck…………
No tinfoil hat needed for me.
crdswmn — How did you figure out that I live in Texas?
Impossible to guess what goes on here some times…………………… That was a Tony play all the way. What seems to vex here are his motivations…………………. This entire era will pass by and few here will even be able to guess what happened…………… it would seem……………….
Just to be clear… I’m not questioning Brian’s motivations or intentions… just think it was an unfortunate word choice that could leave the wrong impression.
I stand behind the choice of words used. The press often suspects things never printed unless/until someone in a position of authority confirms them. I suppose in the purest definition, the press is ALWAYS the one to divulge information, but they are the conduit, not the source.
Brian, I think HBT was questioning the difference between confirming and divulging not whether it was the press or Tony who did the divulging.
OK, how about this? The P-D divulged an anonymous rumor which TLR confirmed. The player initially denied it before the manager reaffirmed it and elaborated. From there, the situation escalated.
Wow. You should go into politics.
The problem I have with Tony confirming the trade story is it opened the door for Albert to open his big yap about a teammate. Tony should have known better, unless that was his intention. A no comment from Tony might have enabled Albert to behave in a more professional manner, and perhaps the chemistry issues Mo has mentioned wouldn’t have gotten so bad. In my view, it contributed to the late season lay down.
BB- Albert could have possibly gone a different route dealing with Colby.I don`t blame him for reacting to a player who supposedly says ” I want out” in the middle of a pennant race.The person who needed to shut up and act like a professional was Colby IMO.
I don’t believe that is the way it went BW, but hey if you want to go with that…………
When AP was first asked to comment, he was under the impression that Colby’s remarks were current and made by him directly to the press. When he learned otherwise, he softened his reaction somewhat. Shortly afterward, he and Colby (according to the P-D) had some heart-to-heart talks and smoothed things over.
There are rumors that TLR, Colby, Albert and RC all took a hot shower together, held hands, and sang Kumbaya… but I’m still trying to get TLR to ‘divulge’ or ‘confirm’ that.
HBT- thats the way i understood the situation happened.And Collby was wrong IMO.
Colby isn’t allowed to use the team shower.
bb — Good one… made me laugh!
Yes, the world according to the Post Dispatch. I prefer the truth, but that’s just me.
I did hear that Colby and Albert spoke at length on the plane and that after that conversation Albert understood why Colby feels the way he feels. I do believe Colby felt better getting all of that mess off his chest. To both Albert and Tony.
Albert and Tony may take hot showers together HB but I doubt you will find any of the other participants there.
And I doubt TLR needs to confirm that, its understood. 
RC — I just love it when you’re sassy!
you brought up the hot showers and holding hands. I’m just giving you the inside info that I won’t be there, nor will Colby. But it is a very solid possibility that Joe Strauss may have some inside info that Albert and Tony do take hot showers together and quite possibly hold hands. From many of your posts its plausible that you have some knowledge of Tony that I may not have and therefore your comments regarding Tony may be more reliable than my guestimations. You may have not meant to leak that little nugget of info but its out now and I find it quite reasonable.
Man, ST can’t start too soon. We’re scraping the bottom for stuff to talk about. Tony and Albert’s personal hygeine habits are off limits as far as I’m concerned. When do pitchers and catchers report?
Ha ha, you’re right Bling. the lack of a response by HB is enough to tell me that he is pissed about those comments. I’m satisfied.
Better get unsatisfied… not the least pi**ed, though I may get that way later tonight.
dammit.
Happy New Year to you and yours RC!
Back at you HB.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with a player making his feelings known through proper channels within the org. Of all the participants, Colby is the only one who has kept it behind closed doors . . . he must take after his mother.
Unfortunately for me I was voted as the one to make waves in order to get him out. Its a tough gig but somebody had to give it the old college try.
Another amazing comment BW. You are as lost most of the time as a person can be.
RCW-which side of your mouth are you talking out of?
Formidable you are 52………. a regular king of the hill……….. a man’s man……….. what are you even thinking?
Westy-just keep having your little conspiracy games and looking at the world the way you see it.I see it the way i see it.
52……….I think its good to shake the group up a little on occasion………….. you don’t do real well at that though…….just more of an irritant……. you seem to be just offering your approval…….or disapproval………hell, offer that…………..if you want satisfaction, which you seem to be doing, better find a place where someone suspects that you have something to offer in return. People that can bloody your nose, don’t do much talking about it………….. just a wild guess……….but I might like to be in the same saloon when you decided to convince RC the error of his ways……………. since that isn’t going to happen…………… give it a rest. All of your hero’s over at the Post read this column……..and many more important people that that. Help make this a substantive group, a polite group. And don’t forget……….your momma and daddy were caught up in what is turning out to be a “vicious conspiracy”. Let it turn out for the best………………..no one is harder on RC here than WC…………. I except him as my brother. He will help us win before all is said and done.
Bravo
I’m off to a New Year’s Eve party. Good night everyone and see you next year!
Westy- your approval or disapproval means not one iota to me.Why don`t you give it a rest with your wild fantasy ramblings.So you can get down off your pulpit and preach to someone else.
disapprove…..your benched with me……enjoy.
Its like trying to reason with Helen Keller by speaking to her WC.
She just couldn’t understand the words that were coming out of your mouth. 
RCW-Lost? Because i don`t go along with your little game? I think you get your kick toying with the poor rabble with your so-called inside comments and snide little shots.
I don`t buy your routine anymore.Sorry pal.Your pot-stirring routine got old.
Well, it seems to me RC’s comments still get to you because you continue to reply to him (and rather angrily I might add). If you truly don’t care about what he says, then stop replying to him. Seems easy enough to me.
He can’t do it Crdswmn…. its like a drug fix to an addict.
BW, I love you man. No joke. You add a life to this place that it needed. A radical, non reasonable voice is a good thing.
But this is what you just wrote. “I don`t blame him(Albert) for reacting to a player who supposedly says ” I want out” in the middle of a pennant race.The person who needed to shut up and act like a professional was Colby IMO.”
Colby didn’t say anything. And was told not to comment on it by his boss. Albert made comments about something that TLR said, not Colby. Yet Albert came down on Colby. But you think Colby should have shut up and acted like a professional? That my friend is simple ridiculous. And you don’t think that qualifies you as lost?
RCW-If Colby had shut up in the first place would this all have happened?Did Colby say he wanted to be traded? Yes or No?
I’m fairly positive that Colby has told Mo that he and Tony may not be a match made in heaven and that it was gonna be hard for Colby to be the best he can be in his current situation. Mo acknowledges that he knew of this problem.
I’m also certain that Colby told TLR to get rid of him. Which was a response to Tony telling Colby that he(colby) couldn’t play for him and that Jon Jay was better. This was the Chicago incident that HB brought up.
Prior to the end of the season Colby or his Agent had never asked for Colby to be traded.
RCW-you answered my question.So Colby did say get rid of me (Colby).
So Colby replied in the heat of the moment? Ask Crdswmn if that is a real defense.She`s the lawyer.
sigh………………:)
BW– Can you spell “provocation”?
My take on TLR is much like mine with Bobby Knight at Indiana. I think he was a great coach, did wonderful things for his organization, but it was time to move on for the benefit of all parties.
Bobby knight was the man CC.
General information……..
When you want to be traded……….you go to the GM
When you’re pissed at being rode by the coach…………you say, “look if you don’t like my game trade me.”
Tony and Mo/BD have been at it since I’ve been here………..it has been bad.
Colby is the face of the youth movement…….arriving here with as much fanfare and trouble as Helen of Troy…………..many have perished in the struggle………..
Colby was on the market………………….. his reception there created a similar reaction and opinion as from the forces that put him “on the market”……………….. His established value here was far greater than any replacement scenarios might provide………………
It is very likely that AP won’t have an extension in place this year. There is a strong possibility that no offer will even be made or requested……………..Tony is gearing up with self motivated veterans because, to be quite honest…………only the thick skins are going to survive the playing environment this year…………….Tony is trying to plug a hole in the boat……Mo is handing out life jackets……………….
It is my personal opinion at this point that the oddest sequence of possible scenarios that I’ve offered seems to be coming to pass………………. There is undoubtedly a collusion here involving Selig and certain east coast teams……….. it appears that they want Albert playing here this year……….without contract…………………. I believe that Tony is aware of the likely hood of this scenario and is preparing as best he can………… I also think Mo recognizes the postural outcome of the Lozano/BD grapple………….
Variables……………….. there seems to be a correlation between the direction of the 2012 negotiations by the Union and MLB……….. there also is a concern for the depreciation of AP’s carefully groomed value to MLB…………….. There is also fear that the lack of a meaningful market for AP might appear to suggest a collusion when it might in fact be just a difficult combination of market variables and contract timing that keeps anyone from offering anything in the 200+ million range………………… I think it might suggest that elements of the Union agreement that the owners actually like……..might be jeopardized………………….. BD is also aware that there isn’t going to be a economic recovery, and that this fact will play heavily in his favor in the 2012 free agent market…………….
Bottom line………here comes the gauntlet for AP…………. I don’t know if he has any of the required focus to succeed here…………..I’m guessing BD thinks he will eventually sign a troubled player at his price…..
Tony is going down with the ship or in a miracle coaching feat………..Tony saves AP …… or vice versa…………………
Young Colby better get focused…………there are millions to be made in the approaching environment…………….and a corrosive environment it will be………………..
Thanks WC. So far this one is my personal favorite.
Happy New Year.
Always glad to share. Happy New Year to you too. …… but please no gambling with this information……….except you Sal. Say hello to Vanessa.
I notice RCW is absent from this discussion .A short comment on TLR earlier and a mysterious silence follows.
Perhaps he is busy BW. I wouldn’t read anything into it.
Reading back in the P-D archives I came across this gem in one of the Strauss chats:
Mark: Just about every post I’ve seen on this website seems to assume that Tony fed you the story about Colby asking to be traded. I’ve noticed that your original story only reported that Tony “confirmed” the trade request. Can you clarify whether the original information came from Tony, or from someone else?
Joe Strauss: Anybody who assumes TLR “fed” the story to the Post-Dispatch is completely clueless. If it was true, you wouldn’t be reading my answer in this space. TLR was asked about it in a group setting Sunday. He had two choices: confirm what had been already printed or lie. He chose not to lie.
[Link to the entire chat session below.]
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_81284d4c-bb8e-11df-9c16-0017a4a78c22.html
From the same source:
Hmoss: … What benefit did TLR gain by exposing Rasmus trade request (granted the Chatmeister had reported the story earlier)? Is this a diversionary tactic to remove heat from himself for the gag effort on the last road trip? …
Joe Strauss: Again, what was TLR supposed to do? Do you lie to a room full of reporters, including one who reported the incident? …
HB, team officials tell half-truths or out and out lie frequently to protect their players. This is commonly understood across sports, not just MLB or the Cardinals.
In this case, the manager chose to expose this particular player. The situation seemed set up by the paper, but he readily took the bait. We’re not talking about a first-year manager here.
The GM admitted he was aware of some past disagreement but dodged the issue by saying no one had asked him for a trade.
The player denied the rumor until forced by the manager’s repeated comments to admit it.
Who handled the situation better?
Like I said elsewhere in the thread, Colby is the only one who kept it behind closed doors.
The same motivation, whatever it was, might be behind Brendan being publicly thrown under the bus.
Colby did what he was told to do. TLR is the one who did what he needed to do.
I don’t know who handled the situation “better.” I do think Mozeliak has handled the situation the worst, however.
He fell down on his duty to make LaRussa happy, to make sure LaRussa doesn’t ever have to manage anyone he doesn’t want to manage. And he still hasn’t fixed the problem.
I feel like LaRussa went public because he wants Rasmus gone. Ditto Albert. For some reasons that go beyond his skills as a player. Everyone in baseball knows it too. They will never get anything close to full value when the trade goes down. The “happy talk” is intended to try to fix that problem. It won’t.
I think you’re right MM. Mo probably found that out at the winter meetings. Same as he couldn’t get anything for a GG level shortstop who hit almost .300 a year ago.
IMO, a big reason Colby is still here is, if he were gone, the only thing to show for Luhnow and his merry band of wonks is a handfull of utility guys and middle relievers. Mo is determined that Colby will be an impact player, and Tony is equally determined he won’t. The compromise seems to be let’s make him into a slap hitting walk taking supporting cast member and Tony will live with it. Mo seems ok with it, Colby seems on board. We will see if it works.
I imagine that if you’ve ever watched players that Tony has had problems with over the years you will know that they end up being given away for nothing. Why trade a bunch for them?
Odds are that things get worse rather than better and Colby will be dumped for a AA reliever that throws 100.
Ha-Ha. I think it’s more fun for everyone to flex their muscles by making the player the pawn in their chess game. By the time LaRussa wins, and he will win, he always wins these things, not only does the player have to rebuild their career, but their reputation. Which is the worst thing of all.
Maybe Colby should ask them to sell him to Japan.
Perhaps TLR chose to ‘expose’ Colby because he believed Colby was the source of the leak. In the first excerpt above, Strauss clearly says that TLR wasn’t the source. It would be logical for TLR to assume, given the level of detail Strauss had in hand, that Colby was. He was the other firsthand participant in the drama.
If you accept those basic premises, everything makes sense. It explains why TLR repeatedly told the media to just ‘ask Colby’. It explains why he wouldn’t try to lie to protect someone he may have thought was using the media to attack/embarrass him, or to force a trade. And it explains why he wouldn’t refuse comment, as that would be viewed as a tacit admission and only invite further scrutiny. (Think Mac’s testimony at Congressional steroid hearings).
As it turns out, I don’t think Colby was the source, at least not directly. Colby, in my view, was genuinely surprised/embarrassed by the whole affair.
I agree that it’s best to keep clubhouse matters inside the clubhouse. But at this point, those matters were in the news and were being tossed into the team’s face for reaction. The door was open and the horse was already out of the barn.
Given the circumstances, I think the person who handled the situation best was the guy who told the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopNAI8Pefg
That is one of my favorite lines in a movie and so appropriate in this instance.
As it applies to you?
Crdswmn, In a room full of the misinformed the informed appears to be wrong all of the time. Can you feel my and WC’s pain? hah
Always RC, Always.
I agree HB, Tony was trying to help Colby out in this instance. And Albert as well. It just hasn’t worked to this point.
Which Tony? Tony La Russa or Tony La Rasmus?
Hell, Tony La Rasmus has been trying, unsuccessfully I might add, for some time now.
But my new years resolution is to not try anymore and let Colby do the dirty work from now on. You know what they say about trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
Another interesting bit from a Strauss chat…
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_78b5cf7c-c11a-11df-8670-0017a4a78c22.html
24Aught7: What’s your latest opinion of the TLR/Rasmus/Mozeliak story you broke on the trade requests which did/didn’t actually take place? Are we seeing a PR cover story unfolding to protect organization interests in Rasmus while setting up TLR to be scapegoat & fan rationale to rebuild in off-season?
Joe Strauss: Here’s the deal on Rasmus. Tell your friends so I don’t have to retell it later.
The Rasmus camp was extremely unhappy earlier in the season. It reached a boiling point during the team’s July series in Chicago when TLR threatened Raz’ with an option or a trade before the non-waiver trade deadline. Rasmus responded by telling the manager then perhaps it would be best to send him someplace else. This wasn’t the first time Rasmus had indicated a desire to be moved. Rasmus, who describes his relationship with Mo’ as “tight,” also made clear his discomfort to the GM, who assured him he was going nowhere despite the manager’s comments.
La Russa confirmed Rasmus’ two trade requests earlier this month when confronted by the report. The front office chose to play semantics, correctly noting neither Rasmus nor his agent, Paul Cohen, tendered a formal trade request.
The relationship between the club and Team Rasmus has been a sensitive one for several years. At one point the Cardinals front office requested Rasmus’ father, Tony, refrain from posting in various chat rooms. The Sept. 5 report in the P-D created a national swirl when Albert Pujols spoke out forcefully on what he believed to be a day-old trade request. Told later the request was dated, Pujols modified his comments and later followed up with a positive meeting with Rasmus.
Terrified of a building controversy, TLR met with Rasmus after the Sept. 5 game. Mozeliak, who had left Busch Stadium, then spoke to Rasmus by phone. Since no formal request was ever tendered, the club suggested Rasmus deny the request, which the player dutifully did hours after the manager confirmed the report. Some outlets without knowledge of the story reported Rasmus’ denial as proof of it not happening… Rasmus’ most recent trade request was made 2 months ago, which is why it appeared as a small part of a much larger story. Pujols’ comments helped inflame it and set the organizational damage control in motion.
HB are you related to Joe Strauss or is it just some obsessed fascination? I ask because you quote him all the time as if every word he says is sacred or something. What in the world makes you think that Joe Strauss knows all? Or tells all? Or tells the truth?
Well, what you don’t know about Joe Strauss probably can’t hurt you anyway.
Strauss is the beat reporter for the Cards and I find interest in what he reports… the chats especially. After doing some research in the P-D archive yesterday, I’ve been reading and re-reading some of those… armed with new insight I’ve gained by hanging out here. I’ve shared a few bits that support my position in my discussion yesterday with Brian. I also found a bit that refuted your GB conspiracy theory. It’s logical, if discussing the Colby trade request, to go back to the source who broke and reported the story. Beats the heck out of making stuff up.
It’s not obsession, but an interest. I don’t consider him sacred, but do think he’s in a position to be well informed. I don’t think he knows all or tells all. And I have no reason to believe he’s a liar… in fact, quite the opposite. You seem to rank him up there with TLR on your hate-o-meter, perhaps as a result of his reporting on Ryan, which you attacked, but which turned out to be accurate.
Maybe you can make yourself a little tinfoil hat… one that keeps out the stuff you don’t want to hear or know about.
I like mine!
Oh I found out about Joe Strauss before Brendan was traded HB. No relationship whatsoever.
You should like your hat, it is working.
Didn’t the Father suggest Colby asked to be traded, in postings here? If so, this is what could have precipitated the rumors in the Post-Dispatch.
TLR may have wanted to cut through anti-TLR innuendos from the Rasmus camp. If Father can post Colby should be traded and had differences with the manager, then TLR elected to confirm these rumors, since they were true, though not of his origination.
TLR seeemed to fight back by going out of his way to point out Rasmus asked to be traded during a series with the Cubs, when the Cards were in first, an especially debateable time in the eyes of Cards fans.
No doubt Jumbo that TLR knows things have been said that can’t be fixed.
Jumbo did it ever occur to you that Colby only asked to be traded because TLR treats him like dirt? And that treatment has nothing whatsoever to do with anything Colby has done?
No, HB I don’t have a link.
But if Jumbo can speculate ad nauseum, so can I. And mine makes more sense.
Ahhhh… the old ‘missing link’ excuse!
Don’t need an excuse HB.
Just being proactive. 
Big difference between someone saying he should be traded and he wants to be traded. A big difference between the player saying at someone else saying it. Bottom line, that’s a huge stretch Jumbo!
If TLR feels the need to fight back in the press by hurting a player for something a family member said, I’d argue he’s not fit to be the Cardinal manager.
CC — I think it’s a logical assumption that at the time TLR made those remarks he believed (incorrectly, I think) that Colby had leaked that story to the media.
Clubhouse matters need to stay in the clubhouse… and that includes not sharing them with a family member who delights in exposing them publicly… not that we know anyone who fits that description…
HBT: I mentioned to Tony Rasmus a couple of years ago that its good form to keep Cluhouse stuff inside the Cluhouse. Tony Rasmus is honest, so when he gets on a line of conversation, his personality may not naturally be given to pulling up.
Whether players say things to reporters or indirectly their families disclose inside the Clubhouse stuff, it has to be an old story, just in a modern technological setting (of the Web).
Carioca, I can’t recall everything Tony Rasmus has written. But it seems to me as if after the Ludwick deal, Tony Rasmus was saying Tony LaRussa said he would rather have agreed with Colby’s request to be traded (in the rental deal for Westbrook). This sort of introduced the Colby request to be traded, not because TLR was necessarily aiming to leak it, but the contexts of the times drew him to hint at it. My guess is that is what got the topic out there as a rumor in the Post Dispatch. P-D reporters will follow juicy conversations here (even if they do not want to fairly acknowledge the source).
Seriously, if the Cardinals give one flying flip about postings on a message board, the organization is screwed.
It should not matter one whit; not one. Postings on a message board should be of no significance unless the poster happens to be in their employ. Which RCWarrior is not.
Since the Cardinals seem so thin skinned over RC’s postings, I wonder why they just don’t pick up the phone and speak with him about it. The old President Johnson adage applies here: Do you want him on the inside pissing out or on the outside pissing in?
Because honestly, the player is not the father and the father is not the player.
Having said all that, I think it’s fantastic that RC comes to a message board and speaks his mind. It can only be a problem if the Cardinals let it be.
The bottom line here is that LaRussa doesn’t like Colby’s game. Why Mozeliak keeps forcing him down his throat is baffling, and making Rasmus a pawn in this little game is unconscionable. It would be in most organizations too. Not one that’s run like the Cardinals though.
I used to live and die with this team; now I just feel the die part. LaRussa finally beat me down too.
Mark, spring training is fast approaching and don’t get all caught up in the BS that is jawing about baseball in the winter. Its all just stuff to kill time.
The Cardinals, if they stay healthy, will challenge for the Central Division. Tony will keep this team in the thick of things. Remember, this group is one that, I feel sure, Tony wants to go to battle with take away one CF. But the large majority of them are Tony type of players. If I were you I would expect one of his better managerial jobs in 2011.
Sorry to say, but I don’t share your optimism. It’s been hard for me to accept, but I just don’t like the dull, emotionless, joyless players, stripped of any personality, they put on the field. It pains me that most of the fans happily settle for this.
They are evaluating middle infield depth according to Derrick G…………and others……..Nick Punto’s name has come up because of his experience at 3rd……….and cost.
Colby Rasmus is a developing player………… the parameters of his qualitative development define by inference, the qualitative parameters of the team………..as defined by “whose team” and “what leadership”……….DeWitt/Mo have a Team……….Tony/AP have a team………. There was a moment when it very much appeared the Colby was starting up his own club…………. in this brief moment of confusion, this entire “trade me” conflict occurred……… as both sides were forced to examine their own boundaries and aspirations. Kind of like wrestling with a bar of soap in the shower?????
Colby would have been traded if it had no financial side effects. As it was, the bar of soap hit the floor…………neither side really trusting enough to pick it up at this point………BD seemingly content in the knowledge that he at least owns the shower………… the bar of soap better bring some game this year, least he dissolve as so many have.
Great point WC,
For the record and in this one brief moment of truth I’ll say that Colby is the one who has to conform to Tony’s wishes. Colby has to do a better job of being a better, more consistent baseball player. He has to be able to cut down on his swing with 2 strikes. He needs to not be so easily aggravated.
In other words Colby needs to go about his business and not let anyone else get him out of his game. He has allowed comments from both Tony and Albert to put him in a place where his game suffered because of how mad he got. All that being said, I believe he will handle those issues better this year. I think he has tried for these two years to get Tony to like him, much like Brendan did. But now I believe he feels that is something that he may never be able to make happen. I believe this to be a positive step for Colby. I do think he understands that he needs to play the game at a high level and to hell with everything else. And finally.
And in my mind I’ve said this forever. All that matters is your numbers. Mind your own business and put up good numbers and everything else is irrelevant.
Teams spend a great deal of money to market their players to the public………. these accommodation always are taken into consideration when dealing with players as properties…………… especially in St. Louis where the organization prides itself in “the quality” of players that it employs………….. When TLR rips into the “value” of a player with the protection of his on field coaching prerogatives, Mo/BD are always concerned………….enough to talk about it with him……
Tony let it go……Mo allowed it to run……….just because one way or another, it would just be added to the ballast of Tony’s already sinking ship……..which incidentally is tied to AP pier 5……..
Colby will be challenged in spring training by a drowning TLR………count on it………… no time to be a chew toy life preserver……….. water ski………take the number two spot……..hit doubles……leave first base open………make the exalted one sweat. Be the franchise……it is wide open at this point.
I don’t believe that DeWitt and Mozeliak talk to LaRussa when he rips a player. I don’t think they care. They are too busy hero-worshiping him, too convinced that they can’t function without him.
Nothing could be farther from the truth MM……… his absents would expose problems much more expensive to resolve than Tony’s little tantrums.
Sure…….that’s why he rips a player he wants to rip whenever he wants to. Because DeWitt and Mozeliak CARE sooooooo deeply about the players they employ. I don’t believe it. They don’t care, because if they did it would have stopped a long time ago. Last time I checked, it didn’t stop, not at all.
And when you say “his absents (sic) would expose problems much more expensive to resolve than Tony’s little tantrums” you are basically confirming that they are convinced they can’t function without him.
MM……………. BD has a very good thing going on here……… the baseball team is just the covering, the outer coating. The league is filled with empty stadiums………..not his…………he knows he can’t just keep the people there himself. The “appearance” of every aspect of this operation concerns him……………. Dave and AP have far more value to him than Tony………… but Tony has been the key to both…………….. when it changes, he needs to be perceived as faultless…………. the world is changing fast………he has a business plan. Winning Baseball is expensive………that isn’t a priority here………. Tony didn’t want Colby……..he started the wheels in motion……. he used “familiar” tactics………… go back and read 2008/2009 threads and tell me the dynamic of the relationship between BD/Mo and Tony………can you say Chris Duncan…………can you say fire Tony loose Dave and AP………. educate yourself………… this group has a “practiced dialog”. You have to be current or your lost.
You know, all these………………maybe those missing words are confusing me. But when I read what you wrote, it just confirms again that DeWitt and Mozeliak are convinced if LaRussa leaves they can’t function without him. Since they hold that view, he will always be allowed to say and do whatever he wants. I don’t know how else to say it, because I feel like I’m calling you a liar. I just don’t believe they care if LaRussa rips a player in the press. They don’t care because he finds one or two every year, rips them in the press. Never a response or retort from the higher ups. That tells me they DON’T care.
You know a few years ago Ron Gardenhire made some sort of flip and disparaging comment about the outfielder Delmon Young during the off season. He was trotted out to address the media to “clarify” his comments- with the GM at his side. He had much kinder things to say about Delmon at that media event. Would the Cardinals even consider that? I know this-LaRussa would not last long as manager of the Twins.
I guess your point is that Pujols and Duncan are loyal to LaRussa, not necessarily the Cardinals. That’s not so good either. Especially if they give Pujols a record breaking contract, and since Duncan is the highest paid pitching in MLB, you’d think that would cover loyalty to the FRANCHISE-because that is ultimately who they work for.
That is Minnesota……….race relations………problematic………..
BD/Mo have made Tony a looser of late………..now that the Pujols situation is at hand……they need him……..he knows it. This is his last stand. I don’t believe he rips players. In this day and age you just can’t sit people down without back ups. There relationship is quite contentious, even though all are professional in there conduct……… Think about this………..AP ragging on playing for a looser for 10 yrs…………as he has in 08/09……… they hired Tony this year for a reason………he is carrying the cross as we speak……..
Good is relative MM………..be entertained by what you see. BD isn’t that into baseball…….and he is the GM, not Mo.
Duncan is the key to a very large investment………you don’t screw with that. He owes those pitcher allot of doe……….but they make him money………you can trade them for players that cost millions to develop…….. they are wealth.
Had to run for the basement earlier. Had a tordado rip through here about 12:30. About 3/4 mile west in Sunset Hills its tore up bad. Houses and buildings gone, vehicles thrown around. The sirens had gone off and the reports are nobody got killed. I saw some chunks of pink insulation hanging up in the trees over at Grant’s Farm.
Colby’s home is in Sunset Hills I believe, close to the Home Depot. Any damage over that way?
Immediatly to the east and south of Home Depot. To the south down Linbergh 1/2 mile to a mile I’d say, and from there northeastward toward Watson Rd.
From about Growlers Pub on south down Lindbergh to around Eddie and Park Rd. Not a real wide swath though. The structures that took a direct hit are gone though.
Goodness gracious. We had thunderstorm warnings here earlier but they have expired.
Hope Colby’s house wasn’t damaged.
We were watching the local news (St. Louis) and they were showing a web cam shot from the apartment complex my son lives in in Rolla. A tornado did touch down in the area.
It was a bit of a shock for him to see on TV; luckily his complex was spared any damage. The shot was of the funnel cloud (awesome camera shot!) taken from the balcony of one of the apartments.
There was apparently also damage in the Fenton and Sunset Hills area.
Here’s a little tidbit from an article on Ozzie Guillen (and his son’s tweeting) that seemed to fit here.
http://chicago.sbnation.com/chicago-white-sox/2011/1/1/1907771/white-sox-matt-thornton-calls-out-oney-guillen-on-tweets
“The job of a major league manager isn’t just filling out lineups and making pitching changes. He is in charge of a group of 25 men who are in close, daily contact with each other for eight months a year — for most, they see their teammates far more than they do their families during the season. A manager has to manage personalities; in the words of Casey Stengel:
“The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided.”
That’s a little simplistic, but there is an art to keeping all those baseball players reasonably happy and not fighting with each other or their coaches, manager and GM for a long spring, summer and fall. One of the ways to do that, as Thornton states, is to make sure that what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse. Ozzie Guillen has, in his seven years as Sox manager, done a pretty good job of this — especially defending his players — and he gets extra rope because of the 2005 ring he’s wearing.”
It seems like TLR’s way of keeping the haters away from the undecideds is to trade the haters. Doesn’t seem productive in the long run.
[...] La Russa and Duncan return [...]