The St. Louis Cardinals’ former slugger became their hitting coach, apologized for the past, and moved ahead.
What many, myself included, thought would be one of the biggest ongoing stories of the year for the St. Louis Cardinals, the return of Mark McGwire, did not have staying power. The story was on fire as the year began, but interest cooled substantially by the time the 2010 regular season was underway.
On October 26, 2009, the Cardinals announced that Big Mac was coming out of self–imposed retirement to become their full-time major league hitting coach. McGwire was not present at the news conference. As the calendar flipped to 2010, over two months had passed with no word from the ex-slugger about his present – or his past.
The results of the annual voting for Baseball’s Hall of Fame were announced on January 6, 2010. McGwire’s support remained below 25 percent in his fourth of 15 possible years on the ballot.
On January 7, McGwire’s boss and biggest supporter, manager Tony La Russa, fantasized about the prospect of activating the 46-year-old for use as a pinch-hitter during the final month of the season. La Russa quickly backtracked, calling it “half-joking, half-serious” before letting it quietly drop.
Four days later, the first step in McGwire’s carefully-crafted re-entry orchestrated by former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer began with an hour-long interview with Bob Costas on MLB Network followed by one-on-one calls to selected media members. The ex-slugger admitted past steroids use for the first time, telling Costas and millions watching on television that it was “the stupidest thing I ever did.”
Yet the confession was not entirely satisfying to many. McGwire insisted his only reason for using over a multi-year period was to help recover from injury. Further, he would not accept the common supposition that steroids positively affected his strength and his on-field results.
The next step in McGwire’s return was a speech at the team’s Winter Warm-Up event over Martin Luther King Jr. weekend that was prefaced by a standing ovation from forgiving Cardinals fans.
Even his area support was not universal. In March, Missouri lawmakers initiated proceedings to rename a six-mile section of Interstate 70 in St. Louis from “Mark McGwire Highway” to “Mark Twain Highway”. The bill passed in both the Senate and House and was signed into law by Governor Jay Nixon in July.
During Winter Warm-Up, scores of national and local scribes and photographers were upset over a hastily and clumsily orchestrated media session that was held at the end of a crowded hotel hallway. In terms of Big Mac’s remarks, nothing new was offered.
This created raised anticipation for the opening of spring training, given the brief January session did not allow the national media full access to McGwire. As camp opened, special precautions were initiated to limit access to the new hitting coach. After McGwire spoke with scribes several times, repeating the same messages as before, the novelty quickly wore off. He then moved into business as usual mode.
During the summer, questions over the level of use of video scouting by Cardinals hitters came to light after McGwire stated his feelings that the approach was being overly-relied upon.
On the field, the members of McGwire’s offense collectively scored six more runs in 2010 than in 2009 while maintaining a flat batting average and on-base percentage – in a year in which hitting was down across the game. La Russa praised his new coach’s job performance.
Critics suggested periods of offensive inconsistency were masked in the full-season numbers. One key area of disappointment was in the middle infield, where Skip Schumaker and Brendan Ryan were McGwire pupils even prior to his hiring by the club.
After his wife gave birth to triplets in June, McGwire delivered increasingly mixed signals about his interest in returning for a second season. In an unusual move, the club announced La Russa’s new contract on October 18, but did not divulge the names of his coaches until one week later. When the 2011 staff was introduced, the incumbent hitting coach was among them.
McGwire’s second year in the job should be quieter than the first.
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[...] Marty Mason’s firing 19. New farm director and minor league improvement 18. Big Mac’s return 17. 16. 15. 14. 13. 12. 11. 10. 9. 8. 7. 6. 5. 4. 3. 2. [...]
Mark has many good ideas about hitting and I do believe he has a desire to help people with their hitting. Unfortunately he most likely didn’t expect the difficulties that come along with helping 15 different guys maintain 15 different types of hitting mechanics.
Its easy to have a hitting philosophy but its difficult as hell to be able to help individual hitters stay in their honey hole as far as their swing goes or get back to the honey hole. Being able to help fix swings quick, fast, and in a hurry is only learned through the many successes and failures one withstands while working with hitters. The long cold spells that some of the 2010 cards encountered are a direct result of Mark having to go through a learning curve to learn his hitters. I believe he continually tried to present his style of hitting to his hitters during the season which was probably not the best idea. I’m sure he figured that out. You can’t keep a hitter in the zone by trying to change his hitting style mid stream. Thats a tough gig.
My guess is what was learned by many of the younger guys last year was you need to be able to figure out your own swing because Big Mac may not be ready to help you much in terms of the mechanics of your individual swing. The one armed stuff continually killed Colby when he tried it. I remember Brendan asking me a few questions in Chicago last year and my third son Cyle, who is a really good hitting guy, told him a few things and Brendan immediately went on a tear raising his average 20 or 30 pts. and then all of a sudden Cyle called me and said Brendan went back to that one handed swing again and splash, back in the tank. Thats why you heard Brendan do an interview not long ago and he said that the first 1000 hacks he was gonna work on keeping the top hand on the bat. He realizes that that method doesn’t work for him.
Basically Mark ended up being a guy who gave advanced scouting reports on pitchers imo. Hopefully 2011 will show him being able to tweak guys with more success.
We’ll see how Ryan does away from those evil twins, TLR & Mark. It will certainly be interesting to keep up with that here over the 2011 season.
At some point Brendan is ultimately responsible for himself and his performance. After all, he’s a grown man, a professional baseball player. It’s a bit unseemly to watch his suporters shifting the blame to everyone else to explain away his failures. Hopefully, Brendan does a better job of accepting responsibility and will make the changes necessary for him to succeed at this level.
I do not blame anyone else for Brendan’s performance problems. I simply object to Brendan being used as the scapegoat for bad clubhouse chemistry or any other problems the team had that were not related to Brendan’s performance. Just because the media tells you Brendan was a clubhouse cancer does not make it so. One guy cannot bring down an entire clubhouse and any player who was bothered by Brendan to such an extent that he has to use Brendan as an excuse for poor play has issues of his own that he needs to deal with.
crdswmn — Never seen anyone connected with the club or in the media refer to Brendan as a clubhouse cancer. Nor have I seen him blamed for overall poor clubhouse chemistry or the failure of the team as a whole last year.
The Cards wanted to upgrade offense in the middle infield. The tension that existed between him, Carp, Albert, and TLR (plainly visible to anyone who watched the team closely), added to his poor performance at the plate, made him an obvious target when upgrades were in order.
I did not see the “cancer” word used. However, Mozeliak did say upon trading Ryan that he wanted to change the clubhouse “culture”. In doing so, he seemed to be making a similar point in a less blunt manner.
Here is the exact quote:
The comment is so vague/euphemistic that what one takes from it necessarily is influenced by one’s attitudes or perceptions going in.
I read that as an indication of tensions existing between individuals, not as a sign of anything about the clubhouse/team as a whole. I don’t read it as saying Ryan is blamed for the general failure of the team to achieve its goals in 2010.
Nice try Brian. If Mo had used the word “cancer” HB would swear he was talking about astrology,
It is well known that Brendan and Joe Mather are buddies, and especially hung around a lot last spring in Jupiter. Is it coincidence that both are now gone?
Colby hung with them as well Bling.. He is next. Mark that down.
“The tension that existed between him, Carp, Albert, and TLR (plainly visible to anyone who watched the team closely), added to his poor performance at the plate,”
I love how you draw conclusions based on absolutely nothing.
‘The tension that existed between him, Carp, Albert, and TLR (plainly visible to anyone who watched the team closely), [along with] his poor performance at the plate, made him an obvious target when upgrades were in order.’
Note my edit, above, in boxends [....] I was saying that tensions with teammates & manager, combined with his poor hitting, made him the upgrade target. I wasn’t saying that tensions added to his poor plate performance. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
Surely you don’t deny that tensions existed, do you? My point was that if he wasn’t getting the job done performance-wise, and had ‘issues’ with manager & teammates, that made him the guy to replace instead of someone who just had performance issues.
Interesting analysis RC. You would no better than me of course. Perhaps 2011 will see improvement in the hitting department.
Very good stuff RC……………….. I agree that his tendency or need to influence a hitter with his own experience was his unmaking…………………….. and as your examples suggest, there is a direct correlation between struggling personalities and the bigger than life projections that he seems to drag around. Brendan Ryan, down to his last at bats here, would speculate on a “big fly” if the count allowed, knowing that a few chance HR’s could change his organization value. Skip spent the first half of the year trying to be the heavy hitting” Right Fielder” who came into play second at the teams request………………… weak…………………. sharing the dream of big money via the arbitration system because he was able to help make your stats a little juicer is understandable………..as a foundation for situational flexibility and competitive responsiveness……….not so much………..
I don’t know enough about MM’s career hitting coaches to speculate. He has arms as big a your thigh………juiced……….I’m guessing one hand could do the job…………….but in reality, that was likely a technique he used to deal with breaking pitches and off speed that were conveniently placed on the “half of the Plate” that he wasn’t in command of……….. he may improve as a coach……..I’m sure he will………. but this question does seem to persist……why in the hell is he the hitting coach…………????????? make him the bench coach with emphasis on assisting an experience guy………… Pujols doesn’t listen………Berkman will insulate himself…….Holiday encapsulated the real problems when he failed to sustain or validate any of his adjustments,…………………………Colby was the worst though…………lets hope he understands that his pay grade if now being decided……………… Lamborghini of Chevrolet?
Yet another write up on the Cardinals winter plan.
http://www.fungoes.net/2010/12/14/ryan-trade-tony-la-russa-uber-alles/
But..but…..Brendan was a clubhouse cancer dammit. He made the veterans play badly and he gave TLR the heeby jeebys. Doesn’t anybody get it?
RC — This guy doesn’t know enough about the Cards to even write on the topic. But he did tip his hand with this gem… ‘The autocrat Tony La Russa has killed the Cardinals’ knowledge-based revolution.’
Just like I said the other day, some in the SABR community hate on TLR while industriously defending one of their own… Jeff Luhnow. Not a word about old Jeffy in this entire screed or the inability of his draft picks to fill the Cards current needs with cost-effective options from within. Plenty of personal attack on TLR though… no shortage there at all.
Some of the points made are just plain ridiculous. Lance Berkman’s signing affects the club’s ability to sign Albert for 2012 and beyond? Theriot was a backup option for Freese at 3B? The Brendan Ryan trade is the downfall of the Cardinals entire plan for 2011? The only key needs the Cards had this offseason were to solidify the rotation, provide a backup plan for Freese & sign Albert? Really?
First off, Berkman’s pay in 2011 on a one-year deal has zero affect on Albert’s pay for 2012 and beyond.
Second, Theriot’s started at 3B only 4 time in his entire MLB career, the last time in 2007, and has played there in 8 games total over six years. Not to mention that his bat is a complete misfit for a corner infield position.
Third, the SABR community loves Ryan and hates Skip. Too bad this guy didn’t take the time to compare/contrast their ability as hitters. The idea that this team rises/falls on Brendan Ryan playing SS is really pretty silly.
The team had far more needs than the ones the author outlined. Among them were… replace Penny in the rotation, replace Ludwick’s run production, find an insurance policy for Freese, improve one or both middle infield positions, replace Reyes, replace LaRue, and improve the depth of the bench. Regretfully, some of those items were left undone.
And actually, signing Albert has zero effect on this year at all, while admittedly, it has a big effect on the team AFTER this year.
Other than that… I agree with pretty much NOTHING the guy wrote! My only regret is that my tinfoil hat allowed this guy’s ill-conceived thoughts to enter my consciousness.
HBT- well said. The article isn`t worth letting a dog crap on it.
yes it is
Unfortunately I doubt you will find any one writer or blogger outside of La La land who would think anything other than what these folks have written these last few days or weeks.
Now everything may work out but there isn’t one person who is unbiased that would predict these moves to be a positive.
RC, I believe you have been rather positive about it. Give Tony the type of players he wants, and all that blither.
You’re right Bling. But I don’t believe any outside person could think that any of the moves were great baseball moves. But they were moves that were right for TLR.
Can’t help but think Tony is looking at a short list of consideration and just playing along.
Keith Law wrote a scathing article on the Ryan trade. I don’t have a subscription to ESPN Insider, but Easton posted the article on the message board under the Brendan Ryan trade thread. All I can say is……whoa.
Keith Law knows his stuff.
It has been suggested in so many words…..but I will sneak up on it again. To my understanding, TLR is trying to accommodate a certain person(s) about the composition of this team…….. it has nothing to do with baseball…………it has everything to do with insulating certain individuals from a negative esteem crisis……….. possibly attributed to TLR’s special understanding of said persons needs. Mo/BD, considering the trade offs, are going along. These moves meet all their requirements concerning the Cardinals future direction. It has nothing to do with baseball. If you look at it this way, you might understand and resolve some of conflict here………….the fact that Pandora’s Box may lie broken and lidless…………is your problem……… eat the apple….get over it.
Even if true, does that make it better? Maybe makes the situation worse and more idiotic in my eyes.
Except for that voting for the Cy Young Award thingy in 2009…
The clip from the Law article on the main site did tell me something I didn’t know about Theriot:
” . . . he’s so prone to baserunning mistakes that the Cubs’ blogosphere coined a new acronym for him? (That would be TOOTBLAN, or Thrown Out On The Bases Like a Nincompoop.)”
So that explains it, he’ll fit right in here.
I loved that.
One last point on this article… The title ‘Tony La Russa uber alles’ is a smear. ‘Uber alles’ is taken from the German national anthem, the first verse being ‘Deutchland uber alles’, which translates to ‘Germany above all’. That song has been in use since 1922, and of course, was used during the Nazi/Hitler period.
It’s hard to miss the inference the author makes about TLR being a Nazi, but just in case you did, he backs it up, calling him an autocrat and accuses him of kililng the knowledge-based revolution in St. Louis.
Now there’s some ‘outside objectivity’ for you… Pretty disgraceful.
Wow HB, you might be stretching a bit more than necessary. At most, I think the author was implying an autocratic/narcoleptic leadership style. Even at that, though, I agree it is in poor taste.
bb — I wasn’t saying the author actually thinks TLR is a card-carrying Nazi party member with a portrait of ‘Der Fuhrer’ over his mantle and a pocket version of Mein Kampf.
But it’s pretty obvious he was trying to paint a picture of TLR as dictatorial, tyranical, etc. Any way you slice it… it was way over the top, and as you said, in poor taste.
Personally, I was glad to see Mark come out of exile and re-enter the baseball community.
I don’t condone that he used PEDs, but I respect the fact that he came out and admittted it (few others have) even though he didn’t need to. He’d already been offered and accepted the job as hitting coach, and IMO, took the heat in the off-season to avoid making it an issue and distraction during the season. Mission accomplished, but at a substantial cost in personal embarrassment
His role, and that of Sammy Sosa, in re-invigorating interest in baseball after the strike year should not be minimalized or forgotten in the tumult of subsequent events. I enjoyed that HR race, enjoyed seeing him raise his son in the air in triumph, enjoyed watching him hop past first base like a 10 year-old, miss the bag and go back to tag it after hitting the record breaker… enjoyed watching baseball again.
The media had their role in making him a hero. An indignant and pompous media played a role in tearing him down. And when he returned, they licked their chops at another chance to take a whack at him. Like a stock broker, they were positioned to make money whether the market was rising or falling. The only thing they enjoy more than manufacturing heroes is destroying them… and I’m not limiting that observation to baseball media.
By hiring him, TLR showed an admirable loyalty to one of his guys. Some might scoff at that, citing other circumstances and other players… but the respect and admiration he feels for Mac is something that was earned over a period of years. It wasn’t issued with the uniform and a contract
Perhaps I should have said ‘some media’… Don’t want to paint with too broad of a brush.
Interesting that you blame the media for the MM situation, but you accept their smear of Brendan with open arms.
crdswmn — I didn’t blame the media for the MM situation. He did that to himself, first by use of PED’s and then by the misfortune of having a scumbag like Canseco for a teammate. I did note media’s role (and enjoyment) in building Mac up… then tearing him down.
I don’t think Ryan was smeared. What I saw reported only confirmed many of the things I’d seen with my own two eyes. The Leach article I shared here about his tardiness problem was actually a report meant to praise his new ‘maturity’. The Tunnel Talk game, where he got to the field late, was confirmation of that report writ large. Same with the wrist surgery. Was that a smear, or just honest reporting that he had the procedure without getting team approval first?
I saw Albert glare at him after blunders on the base paths, saw Albert risk injury trying to corral errant throwns, saw Carp complaining bitterly to Waino on the bench while gesturing at Ryan, saw the irritation on TLR’s face when Brendan did boneheaded things… but most of all, I saw him play and confirmed my evaluation about what I saw by looking at his stats.
If I accepted what I saw in the media it was because those reports confirmed things I already knew and saw with my own eyes.
Wait a minute HB. What was that tirade that I responded to about how the media went after MM? Satire?
“An indignant and pompous media played a role in tearing him down. And when he returned, they licked their chops at another chance to take a whack at him. Like a stock broker, they were positioned to make money whether the market was rising or falling. The only thing they enjoy more than manufacturing heroes is destroying them… and I’m not limiting that observation to baseball media”
Please, at least own up to your own words. Noting their role? Some “note”
Perhaps you missed the part where I said Mac was responsible for what happened to Mac. Or maybe you just ignored it. I didn’t blame the media, I just noted the way they exploited it.
They feasted on it, profited by it, and in some ways facilitated it. First they glorified the long ball, then turned around and hypocritically ripped players who tooks substances to produce more of them. But that doesn’t excuse players like Mac who took PEDs… the media didn’t make them do it.
Sorry, forgive me if I don’t understand your your Brendan parallel here at all, Mama Griz.
You can dance around it all you want HB with your semantics about MM’s responsibilty. That is not my point and I think you know it. Your words were a direct shot across the bow to the media about how they treated MM badly about his mistakes. The parallel is obvious. The media is bad for the way they treated MM about his PED use, but you have no issues with the media treating Brendan like the clubhouse bad boy. In MM’s case there was no question his behavior was wrong. In Brendan’s case all we have are insinuation and innuendo, which makes it that much worse.
You have a double standard, fella ,cuz MM is TLR’s boy and Brendan is not.
Mama G — You’re off the mark on that double standard business. Differing standards are appropriately applied to different cases. Mac’s and Brendan’s situations aren’t even remotely similar.
In my original remarks, I used Mac’s case to make a broader point about the way the media creates & destroys celebrity. The race for RM’s record with Sosa made Mac a national figure. His appearance at the Congressional dog & pony show, after he was out of baseball, was a national sensation. When hired as a coach, the media created the outrage about it, rehashing the past. When he made his admission, some belittled it as not good enough… an effort to keep the controversy going. Happily, it didn’t.
Ryan’s case is different. Brendan isn’t a media creation or a national celebrity at all. He’s the reincarnation of Bo Hart/Joe McEwing, a locally popular player (in some circles) whose trade has generated the fury of partisans. The team, using the media, has attempted to explain the rationale behind the move without being too specific. They haven’t smeared him, called him a cancer, or blamed all the failures of 2010 on him.
No doubt, I liked Mac better than Brendan as a player. But that has zero to do with TLR and everything to do with their relative contributions to my enjoyment of watching them play the game.
Checkout Cards talk and Kyle Lohse speaks out about Brendan Ryan.
Entertaining read BW. Here’s the link.
http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=769772&sid=0d6010f829b02f92294e0e31b81b9724
HB sometimes you remind me of a character in one of my favorite movies, “An Ideal Husband”. A countess who was described as “talking more and saying less than anyone I ever saw”
Mama G — I’ve got plenty to say… you just don’t like or agree with some of it.
You didn’t get the point RC. There is a difference between talking and saying. Talking is using a lot of words. Saying is making a point. You talk so much that any point you may be trying to make is lost. And sometimes there is no point at all, just words.
But I do get the persistent theme loud and clear. TLR can do no wrong. And you’re right, we don’t agree.
Just wearin’ ya down, crdswmn… just wearin’ ya down. You’ll be the proud owner of a TLR jersey before I get done with you.
I think I’ll pull a Westie here and proclaim my prophetic powers — I was adamant that there was no reason he would be a distraction.
unlike many here……….I keep score………. and it is true that CC did in fact say that………..however he fails to mention that he did it all the way from Brazil…….. which is well beyond the range and need for ‘tin foil products”……………… invalidating his opinion……..
I’m sure the irony of how any attempt by Westie to invalidate my opinion (or anyone’s for that matter) on validates it even more.
“I don’t know where he is (in his decision process). Only he knows that,” La Russa said. “As far as the fit, it’s great for us. But anybody who’s used to playing a lot has to make an adjustment as a backup.{{{{{{{{{{{{{ You work so close with the first guy, if you give off any vibe about playing time, that’s not good, whether it’s Bengie or anybody else trying to clear that hurdle.”}}}}}}}}}}}}
This is a good example of the situation as I see it…………..Tony would like Benjie I think…………but says this………..
Is the purpose of this statement to the press 1) intended to encourage Benjie to sign?
2) Or is it to comfort Yadi, who would be very uncomfortable should another catcher show up that could catch……..and hit……. and might try to show it…….even threatening his status as a “jogger”………………..? I mean thats not good…..right………. someone that might not understand the delicate sensibilities of a catching martyr………..that needs to carry the heavy load……… like his never sit even in a dead slump brother AP……………. and the Hurdle award goes too….. GL who is sent in………….by SB…….because of the instability in this environment…….. he got him 300,000 in incentives to keep his reputation………..GL is going to start feeding without invitation. He is liable to have company in MH and CR……. Freese joins in likely.
Tony is working to feather AP’s bed………..if he has to except the bid you know BD will eventually make………………… AP isn’t talking…………. Tony is entertaining him, humoring him, sheltering him…………. PLACATING him………
If I’m not mistaken CR was the “sacrifice” early on………… they cut the cheaper goat it would seem.
Interesting analysis of the backup catcher thought process, Westy. Wouldn’t a similar strategem apply to middle infield. Skip will look less bad next to Theriot at short. In fact, he could be the better of the two. In Mo/Tony la la land would that not constitute improving 2B? Brilliant.
Its not about the catchers BB………..its about Tony’s roll at the moment……..BM wanted more money. They weren’t going to pay it. Tony calls Yadi of course and asks his opinion. Tony essentially says what their concerns were. If he is serious, he calls Bengie……..he wouldn’t put it in through press channels…………….. Tony was sheltering Mo again…….helping the public see a problem that might excuse the Cardinal for not making a legitimate offer……Tony and Mo talk…..they are the go betweens…………they know that they both have a problem without AP…………… Ryan was one of the complaints that AP would have voiced to Tony…………Colby was set up in Sept….he has survived so far…. I told you they would take out the trash with BR……….and they did. ……..everyone else was just waiting by the dumpster…………. Tony is helping Mo because he’s washed up without AP………………….Nobody in there right mind signs Berkman to play the outfield…………Bd needs AP to stomp off if he’s going…………. AP has to be the one to activate Lozano into any scenario concerning the Cards…..if the Red Sox sign Gonzale’s extension……markets going to be tighter next year……………………. If they haven’t met before next week………… It gets kinky……….
..Boras is the tell…..Angels make an offer for Beltre……….Boris stalls……..he is watching whats happening here………….. if Albert wants out, maybe he thinks BD will want a pacifier……… for the season ticket holders. Angels are in no hurry……….they know their numbers.
Still waiting on the “whats Lohse Know comments”.Who`s he to comment?
It is worth a raised eyebrow. That Lohse would talk about inside clubhouse matters, especially attaching a name to it. But he is, after all, following the lead of Tony and Mo, who showed no hesitancy throwing Brendan under the bus.
It is possible that Brendan was more of a problem in the clubhouse than generally thought. How much of that is him and how much is some of the others is the question. My opinion, there are some real wet blankets in this clubhouse, and Brendan really rubbed them the wrong way. Getting the strong personalities of the big stars to accept the young guys is a management skill that guys like Torre and Girardi have, but Tony doesn’t, at least not any more.
Its like the Cards are so provincial, that when a big superstar comes along, the whole org is consumed with bowing and scraping, and loses all perspective.
I’m not down on Kyle. He got a windfall, and continues along as he always has. Hopefully, better health will allow him to be better than a .500 pitcher.
There is no way everyone is going to be satisfied.
Some want more players to speak out to prove to them the concerns were widespread and not exaggerated.
Others take exception when a veteran player like Lohse attempts to do just that, despite how carefully the words were chosen.
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t…
Well I have never had any doubt that Brendan’s personality didn’t fit too well with many in the clubhouse. Apparently it didn’t with Kyle Lohse. But there is always two sides to every story, we just keep hearing one. Maybe some of us would like to hear the other one too.
Ryan chose to take the high road in his departing comments, for which I give him credit. He could have brought up his ADHD and played the sympathy card, but he did not.
It seems unlikely if there are teammates who supported Ryan and wanted him to stay that they would speak out at this juncture. It would brand them as taking a position against the organization, whose leader said a culture change was needed. Even if there are some who support Ryan, it just isn’t realistic to expect them to go public at this point. What would it accomplish other than to increase discord at a time when they should be trying to pull together and focus on 2011?
I am not defending or attacking what has been done. The point is that it HAS been done. Ryan is gone. It seems like it is time to move on…
I agree that those who support Ryan would not and should not say anything. I was speaking only in the abstract.
Something tells me the Ryan trade will not be one of your top 20 stories.
Not as a standalone entity, but as a part of a broader item, yes.
As I put my list together, I had over 30 contenders. Some got cut while others were consolidated. Then, I showed the draft list of 20 to nutlaw, who called out two biggies that I missed the first time. So, I had to adjust some more…
Looking at some departures which, standing alone, don’t make a lot of sense, it is possible that there is not much left in the way of Brendan sympathizers. Perhaps Luddy was the veteran sympathizer. Maybe Marty was the coaching staff guy. Mather was a cohort, we know that. Heck, maybe Hawk leaned the wrong way. It seems like Colby might have turned away from the dark side in the nick of time. I hope. He seems to be kissing up like nobody’s business.
Bling you seem to see things clearer than most imo. Either you have a fully functional BS filter that allows you to distinguish between the rose colored and the crap or you know someone who plays on the team.
I heard one time some really good info. It went something like this. The Truth is not nearly as important as what is perceived to be the truth.
That is a condensation of the philosophy of Emanuel Kant.
And then there are some that I suspect just go about their business and are neutral. I would guess Waino to be one of those guys.
My guess is if Waino was leading this group you wouldn’t see any of these issues. Waino is a christian when the cameras are off as well as when they are on. This would make him unique in my mind.
Why do you think I picked his photo for my gravatar? They don’t get much better than Waino.
RC, you are implying that someone else is mostly just posturing for public consumption?
Bling, we shouldn’t go there.
I’m implying that the public hears exactly what the Cardinals want you to hear, whether it is factual or not.
And most all cardinals consider anything that comes from the cardinals as the complete truth.
At any rate… like it or not, Lohse’s comments should silence those who say it’s all innuendo and the inventions of newsmen. Obviously not…
Except for those that don`t want to hear it.
Yeah, I was waiting for Kyle Lohse to end the suspense for all of us.
An interesting development here it seems. Some considerations………………
Brendan Ryan has been traded. The clubhouse still exists. This team……..must now go forward. Someone has scheduled some games for them in the spring it seems.
The Cardinal rotation is the foundation of this team……..it is cliquish…. its strength/its weakness. …….Waino is the Ace……Carp is the heart……..Jamie is the baby…….Westbrook is the new guy……..Lohse is the short strawed veteran.
Brendan as a player had an excess of forward momentum. To find stability, he adjusted his role as player/teammate to accommodate it………… his needs were excessive…… They manifest in many different behaviors………..which have been talked about here.
Brendan, under duress likely took more liberty’s in the team environment. From a professional standpoint, it appeared that he began “tweaking his medications” ………. attempting to arrange his sensory experience without addressing the real issues………..this appeared to exacerbate the issue…………enough said………… he may get it to together……….he may not.
We have fielded a team………they have chartered a plane……….someone bought neat uni’s. Play ball………………….
I don’t think Mo is insane, nor a bad baseball guy. He is not stupid either. So each move has some explaination other than one of those. Some explaination that makes good sense if one knows his objective, which we don’t, not really.
I’m having trouble trying to express the idea so here is an example. Brendan Ryan is worth more than one of the countless guys out there that can throw 97 and can’t do much else. Argue if you want but he is. At the end of the winter meetings, Goold the beat guy says “The Padres attempted to deal for Ryan, but couldn’t come to an agreement on the return to the Cardinals”. OK, fine. But then it is proven that the Cards can, will and did happily take a three legged dog for him. So what did the Pads offer that was not good enough? A two legged dog? Hardly likely. So why did Mo not deal Brendan to the Pads? Assuming there is an explaination that makes sense, the only thing I could come up with is Mo and the org didn’t want Brendad showing up at the home opener, Luddy will be bad enough. So, IMO, the reason Brendan was traded for so little is because it was an imprtant objective of Mo’s, that fan favorite Brendan be sent somewhere so remote that we would hardly ever even hear his name. So a trade to the Pads was out. Only a very few teams would suit. In that case, the deal makes sense. We just had to identify the objective.
It seems like it should be possible to similarly reverse engineer the other moves to identify Mo’s likely objective. The Berkman thing for example.
Thats as good a reason as any BB. The move had little to do with baseball.
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