The St. Louis Cardinals have made a pair of changes to their starting lineup for 2011, in the outfield and at shortstop. What might the impact be?
In Sunday’s Post-Dispatch, Jeff Gordon penned a column entitled “Cards sacrifice defense for offense, toughness”. The flashpoint was Saturday’s signing of outfielder-first baseman-outfielder Lance Berkman, but the focus was the cumulative effect of the team’s roster moves this winter to-date.
Let’s start with the title. I get the defense-offense contrast and readily agree. I want to think about more about the “toughness” assertion, however.
Gordon also mentions the elusive term, chemistry, in reference to Berkman and new shortstop Ryan Theriot.
“But this much is certain: The “Big Puma” adds sorely needed presence to the Cardinals’ batting order and clubhouse.
“The move, following the addition of gung-ho shortstop Ryan Theriot, alters the team chemistry. Berkman plays to win, as the Yankees discovered after adding him to their supporting cast last season.”
OK, Berkman and Theriot joined St. Louis. Depending on which part of the 2010 season to which you are drawing a comparison, Berkman either replaces Ryan Ludwick or the platoon of Allen Craig and Jon Jay. The latter two are still on the team.
Theriot takes the place of Brendan Ryan in the lineup and perhaps Felipe Lopez or Aaron Miles on the roster. Ryan remains with the team, at least for now. Miles had the reputation of being a good teammate. Blake Hawksworth was traded away and eight players departed via free agency.
Other than Lopez, an obvious target, and Ryan in a diminished role, it is unclear who else is being referenced on the deletion side of the equation.
On the addition side, how do we know the two newest Cardinals are tougher and contribute to a better a chemistry mix than the guys they replace?
Berkman has been a fine player for a long time but is in the decline stage of his career. He is a good guy by all accounts, though injury-plagued and in less than ideal playing shape. While he may have shown the Yankees he plays to win, they didn’t ask him back and neither did his longtime Houston club, despite Berkman almost begging to come home. Theriot was unwanted by the Dodgers after having lost his starting job and being dispatched from Chicago last summer.
Further, can Berkman stay healthy and can both bounce back from substandard 2010 campaigns?
At this early stage, it feels more like hope than anything that can be substantiated.
Gordon readily acknowledges the decline in defense expected from the revamped Cardinals lineup but is still among those who already see positive change with certainty. His closing comments:
“But La Russa is willing to trade defensive potential for offensive muscle and a tougher attitude. Last year’s team spent a lot of time daydreaming.
“That won’t be a problem next summer with Berkman and Theriot playing big roles.”
More than toughness and chemistry, I am most interested in the bottom line. Will the potential for increased run-scoring more than offset the risk of additional runs allowed?
I will wait and see before becoming a “daydream believer” that these changes for 2011 will prove to be as substantive as suggested.
What do you think?
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Theriot is a sub Brendan Ryan defender at short and I’m not sure he will be a huge upgrade over what Brendan would do this year offensively with a healthy wrist. That being said, Tony wants Theriot in and Brendan out so that alone makes this a positive for the team. If Tony wants you then the team wants you so that alone will aid in clubhouse tensions being improved. But if Theriot is a clubhouse gain then Brendan needs to be somewhere else or you still have what many have labeled as a clubhouse problem.
Berkman also weakens the defense as he won’t be as good as Luddy was in right or as good as Holliday was in left. If Holliday moves to right to make room for Berkman in left then Berkman will not be as good as Holliday was in left and then Holliday won’t be as good as Luddy was in right. Either way you shake it this does not help the defense.
Actually with Theriot at SS, Freese as questionable at 3B and Skip at 2B, Berkman in left and Colby(who was a bad CF per all defensive metrics) in CF, the defense appears to be capable of being down right bad.
But Berkman was wanted by TLR so I do like the move for the team. I give Mo credit for going out and getting two players that TLR will no doubt work super well with.
Offensively Berkman could very well be a good pickup. His numbers look really good for the last decade or so. He should slide right into the 5 spot in the order and be a big time RBI guy in that spot. There is huge offensive upside here imo. Hopefully Tony puts him in a spot like he does with Albert and Matt and doesn’t move Lance around like everyone else. Thats a powerful 3-4-5 if left alone.
I like both pickups for the team. A few subtractions by Mo this week and he will have completed a pretty darn successful off season.
RC, What additional subtractions need to be made besides BR?
When Brendan came out and said that it was tough to be a young player on the cardinals that was the day he became a problem. When he stated those words he was considered to be criticizing TLR by saying that. That did him in imo.
In 2009, Ryan had a pretty good season with the Cards. Acknowledging this, the team chose to keep him as their primary SS in 2010, but he had a weak hitting season. In 2009, Ryan was younger than in 2010. Maybe age was not really the issue, but performance.
During his long career, a lot of young players have entered the majors with TLR and gone on to have successful ML careers. Albert Pujols, Matt Morris, Yadier Molina, Braden Looper, Edgar Renteria, McGwire and Canseco, lots more names.
TLR may be harder on vets. He did not have an easy relationship with another SS, Ozzie Smith. So yes, Brendan probably did his cause no good if he suggested it was tough to be a younger player on the Cards because its hard to argue this persuasively.
RC — If Berkman bats 5th, doesn’t it make sense for Colby to bat second? If he was in the 6 hole then you have two LH bats back-to-back, and it would be a waste to hit him any lower than 6th unless he was facing some LHP that owns him.
Personally, I like the idea of Colby in the 2-hole, a nice mix of power, speed and OBP. His OBP was 3rd on the team last year behind AP and Holliday. He could score from 1B on an AP double down the line. And he’d get lots of pitches to hit, sitting in the rocking chair ahead of the best hitter in the game.
I truly hope these moves improve the team and they have a great season. If not, I am sure the organization will have no trouble finding a player to blame it on.
As long as Colby and Brendan are on the Cardinals I feel certain they will share in the blame.
I suspect we’ll see BR traded during the winter meetings this week. I hope he lands on a team where his quirky personality will be better tolerated.
I don’t think he is quirky to be honest. He is a fun loving guy in a system where that is a huge no no. I believe him to be a person who enjoys life to the fullest, smiles alot, and jokes around alot. Unfortunately he is in a place where Buddhist Monks would get fined for smiling too much. Any other place will be an upgrade for him personally, even though he doesn’t think that way today.
I would say something RC but I promised to let the BR rants die and I keep my promises.
I know I promised to let it alone, but I had to post this.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_e4b4a3d6-0163-11e0-ba0a-0017a4a78c22.html
Ozzie………at the winter meetings………..ghost writer DG………. trying to firm up the market a little. He reads very well doesn’t it…………..
You got to love the Red Sox closing the Gonzales deal with a little “press magic”……….. those anonymous source leaks sure can light a fire…………….. Looks like Gonzales will be sharing some of the “spring training” risks with Boston. Maybe sharing some of those luxury tax savings with them.
Maybe I am in the minority, but I was weary of the Ozzie-TLR feud a decade ago. By now, it is just embarrassing that the two men who are such a big part of the franchise can’t find a way to get along in the rare occurrences when they’d have to be together.
That is before my time……………….is that the “somebody over there” comment?
Yes.
Brian — Ozzie showed very poor judgment inserting himself into current affairs on the team. It shows that all these years later, he still harbors a grudge that should have been buried a long time ago. Shame on the Wizard…
I thought Ozzie’s comments on Ryan sounded fair. Plus, the more Ozzie talks up Brendan, the more Mo can land for him in a trade.
That was pretty hard hitting Brian…………….I see you smoking a cigar and wearing a fedora, feet up on your desk……..box of Chinese takeout lying open….fly’s taking off eratically, buzzing from the MSG………………….. right?
We sat around last year admiring how nice it was to have Brad Penny…………… to me, there are eerie similarities. If you asked me to bet that Berkie gets out of Spring Training to start as an outfielder, I wouldn’t touch it …………….. Play into July, even with rest……….couldn’t do it…….October…..no way…
I feel as I’ve said before, that LB is a tactical move, essentially paid for by money that will subtract from AP’s negotiating posture………….. and all the other elements he adds as a back up at 1st base. Injured rehab of the bench is the likely bet.
Gonzales contract will be long………150/160 range……….. that doesn’t help AP much because the kid is 28. Boras and Werth did some damage and there is lots of complaining going on.
The chances that LB is injured going into the season are 50/50. If he plays a 100 games in the outfield……… it would be a miracle. …………………. since its won’t be an elbow/shoulder policy, just a general performance guarantee……….BD will speculate with multiple policies……. I’m thinking he will be paying deluxe premiums…………….
Tony is wearing it all……………..BD is leading his goat to the temple…… and the show hasn’t even started yet.
I’m excited………………………….about how well “our club house” is projected to perform………. I bet everyone in the central is paralyzed with fear…………..
Strauss and Goold are beat writers, well connected, and in both of their articles today they stated mater of factly that if the Cards acquire Bartlett, Theriot will shift to 2B displacing Skip. In niether case was it stated as a possibility or opinion, but as a fact. But a close reading reveals that niether writer attributes that “fact” to anyone. In my mind it is not so clearcut, and I would like to know if there is a source or are they passing off what they think will happen if Bartlett is acquired as a matter of fact.
Joe Strauss: “. . .Such a move would shift Theriot to second base and likely put second baseman-outfielder Skip Schumaker and his $2.7 million salary in play.. . ”
(note that he says ‘would’)
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/article_d7d46796-0163-11e0-89d1-00127992bc8b.html
Derrick Goold: “. . .There remains the possibility that the Cardinals will pursue a veteran for the position — Tampa Bay Rays shortstop Jason Bartlett still holds some interest for the Cardinals via trade — and shift Theriot to second base. . .”
(less clear cut, but the implication is that Theriot to second will follow if Bartlett is acquired.)
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_e4b4a3d6-0163-11e0-ba0a-0017a4a78c22.html
Later in the day, Mo met with the media and set the record straight about Bartlett. This is BJ Rains’ version:
“Mozeliak says Cardinals are done with middle infield, except for Brendan Ryan situation. No Bartlett or anyone else being considered.”
Strauss and Goold don’t just make stuff up. Do they? How would Joe know that getting a SS ‘would’ shift Theriot to 2nd, rather than making Theriot a super sub type who would play some 2nd against lefties and get reps at 3rd in Jupiter. And Goold too. Unless somebody told them, they wouldn’t know it. Something smells.
bb — They probably read MLB Trade Rumors too.
Also, I have heard the update including Mo’s disclaimer, but that doesn’t address my question.
BB………. Bartlett and Pujols………..oil and water. That’s not going to happen. Nice kid……..he will end up in SF I think…….he’s from the bay area. They’re trying to seem like they are burying BR so that they will get inquires………….Pittsburgh is just waiting for the price to drop.
I don’t care about Bartlett either way Westy. My interest is why/where two Cards beat writers came up with the same story, most importantly including the part about Theriot sliding to 2nd if it would go down. Either they both simultaneously made it up, or somebody told them that was the plan if a SS were obtained. Then Mo turns the hose on them. Strange.
I just told you…………..these guys are working with Mo down there……….they are part of the posture. They have a purpose.
BB…………the whole Gonzales leak story was a ploy by the Red Sox to close the deal………it worked. Its part of the game…………… you don’t think Gonzalez’s agent didn’t consider the Pujols angle?
BB, it isn’t a stretch to assume that if a team acquires a SS and a SS/2B over the off-season that the SS will play SS and the SS/2B will play 2B. I’m not a beat writer, but I can also say with certainty that if the Cardinals were to acquire a starting shortstop, Theriot would be the starting second baseman.
I’m disappointed that Mozeliak told Goold he isn’t looking for middle infield help. The riot deal
is a good one if he plays second, not so good with the former LSU player at short.
I’d be more excited with Berkman if the Cards were in the slow pitch beer league and they could DH him. If Cuddly Elvis plays 100 games in left field consider me pleasantly shocked.
Sacrificing defense is scary and the Cardinals so far look to be worse with the gloves than last year when they really booted the ball around compared to some of the great and even good Cardinal teams of the past.
I hope they keep Ryan and he can relax enough to claim starting SS and The Man Who Causes Mayhem slides over into playing a stellar keystone position.
I can understand why Mr. Ozzie Smith still carries a grudge against TLR, it’s unfortunate but Ozzie is sensitive and I for one still believe LaRussa cost the Cards a shot at the World Series in ’96 when he started Clayton over the Wizard.
Is Colby Rasmus scheduled to bat 2nd or 6th with Berkman at 5th?
Hi Chief. My guess is Freese hits 2nd, Colby 6th.
Plausible BB…………Freese has the best swing on the team……
bb — I think Colby hits 2nd. If he’s in the 6-hole and Berkman hits 5th, then you have two LH bats stacked and you don’t force the opponents to make the pitching moves late in games that you can otherwise do with L-R-L alignments.
While Berkman is a switch-hitter, he struggled against LHP last year. He’s best hitting lefty.
Here are a couple of thoughts.
First, The Cards won a World Series in 2006 with a starting catcher who hit for a lower average and lower OBP than our starting SS did in 2010. Defensively, Ryan is to SS as Yadi is to Catchers. Yadi got a chance to bounce back, and did so nicely.
Second, The Cards won a World Series in 2006 with Chris Duncan in left. So Berkman in left is not cause for panic. But the likelihood of a team that is weak or mediocre defensively almost everywhere is a legit cause for concern.
Fire MM………….keep Ryan………that works…………. Ryan is gone……….they will take dog meat in the end…………..the buzzards are just waiting to see how little dog meat they have to cough up.
(1) TLR likes Yadi
(2) Tigers had worse defense than Cards in 2006 WS.
crdswmn — Just rewatched that series… between pitcher throwing errors and those by Inge at 3B, the Motot City Kitties were horrible on D. But it only really changed the outcome of one game… game 5. Other errors came after the Cards already had leads.