The St. Louis Cardinals appear to be shopping shortstop Brendan Ryan, but will he generate trade interest?
At Thursday midnight’s non-tender deadline, no shortstops of note were cut loose. That doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of shortstops on the market, however.
For weeks, J.J. Hardy of Minnesota and Jason Bartlett of Tampa Bay have been in the rumor mill news as available. Those clubs know they have a valuable asset and needed to tender them a contract to maintain their rights, and ability to pull off a trade.
Of course, the St. Louis Cardinals did the same thing with their 2010 shortstop, Brendan Ryan, as the first-time arbitration-eligible player remains under team control. Much has been written about the defensive standout’s fun-loving, but maddening behavior as well as his struggles with the bat this past season.
Recent actions by the club in acquiring Ryan Theriot in trade from the Dodgers and labeling him as their starter at shortstop seemed to move Ryan’s days as a Cardinal near its end. In all fairness, his departure is not a sure thing, as a “super utility” role in 2011 was also mentioned as a possibility.
The events of the past few days to put Ryan out of his starting job, on top of a less-than-positive evaluation from manager Tony La Russa following the season, seemed to further devalue Ryan in an already-crowded shortstop market. Further, questions remain about Ryan’s two-way viability no matter where he plays.
Given all that and considering the state of the position across baseball, I wondered how easily Ryan might be able to find a home. Of course, he could be given away, but I mean in a trade that would net the Cardinals roughly equivalent value.
In addition to Hardy and Bartlett who currently have jobs, the top free agent shortstop, Derek Jeter, technically remains a free agent. Even when he returns to New York, which he surely will, several veteran shortstops will continue to be looking for work.
They include Orlando Cabrera, Cristian Guzman, Cesar Izturis and Edgar Renteria. The latter two are former Cardinals. Other well-known reserve-types at the position looking for a 2011 home include Craig Counsell, Bobby Crosby, Adam Everett, Julio Lugo, Jerry Hairston Jr. and Nick Punto.
In other words, even clubs that may be in the market for a back up shortstop have a number of options that might be more palatable and perhaps even come cheaper than Ryan.
Through the Cardinals’ actions in the upcoming days, including the Winter Meetings, we will see how anxious they may be to unload Ryan. If they deal him, will they be able get a fair return? Should they trade him at all?
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A draft pick at the end of the first round is kinda valuable, but the org didn’t let that stop them when they wanted rid of Flip. Hopefully, its all just so much bluster to motivate Brendan. He did much better when competing for a job. Skip, on the other hand, didn’t have to compete for his.
bb — In 2009 Skip was asked to play 2B on short notice, filling a team need after Kennedy was released with pay. He did pretty well there and hit .300+ as the leadoff man and the team won the NL Central. Why slam him for that?
I don`t have a problem with Brendan as a defensive replacement.IMO if BR doesn`t feel comfortable as a defensive replacement then why not see what they can get for him in a package.
‘ I don`t think anything is written in stone about who is starting at 2B or SS or 3B right now.What Mo can do in the next few months will help decide who the options are.
This blog should be suitably renamed the Cards Whine Bar. Is former Commissioner Vincent trying to screw up the game? Can Brendan Ryan be traded?
Mo should be able to trade Ryan, no problem. Because of his fine defense and potential to hit, Ryan has baseball value. The publicity will have been helpful to alerting other teams that Ryan is available.
TLR and Rolen had an angry break-up, but this did not hurt Mo in landing Glaus. Executives with other teams understand when players need a change of scenery and hope for them to thrive in a new setting. This is commonplace. Mo probably wants to trade Ryan for Brendan’s own good.
Now if no other teams want Brendan, why should the Cards alone want him? That would be a discouraging verdict on Ryan. But I doubt this will happen.
When somebody is traded, its not necessarily a bad thing for them. It provides them new opportunities. Its not like Ryan is going to a prison in Siberia. If he gets traded, we should wish him Bon Voyage.
Feel free to frequent other sites if you can find ones that better align with your view of the world, Jumbo.
Brian why get on Jumbo? You put up with Westy`s warped conspiracy rants all the time and now you get on Jumbo because he comments about this particular piece.
Bw: Brian’s outlook on contemporary Cards issues is often tinged in a negative direction. Can Jose Oquendo ever get a managing job? What’s wrong with Jose or with TLR that his coaches do not get selected as managers?
Brian’s outlook tends to be happier whn writing about history or (the impersonal) statistics. He dislikes that I am not quite as pessimistic as he is about contemporary human events. As a reporter, maybe he wants to regard the team in a skeptical way, to be alert to emerging problems and not lose sight of them via rosy colored glasses. However, if the glasses get too tinged, then they can become dark glasses and things can seem gloomier than they need be.
Westie is not threatening. Its hard to even understand what he writes. You do a good job blasting his nonsense, but you may do well and feel peaceful to just let him be himself, because he can write more stuff than you can blast.
Among posters here, HBTexas is a nice addition and closest to my moderate, don’t blame the team for every little thing, clear spectacles outlook. I dont always agree with Carioca, but he is at least a solid Cards fan. Nutlaw, related to Brian, is developing thoughtful understandings into the game.
Without reservation, it is better to disagree with views than to attack people themselves or denigrate their opinions as seems to be happening here more frequently. Personally, in some cases, when I don’t understand what posters are trying to get at, I let it pass. Better that than to get into long arguments that may prove pointless.
As long as people follow the site posting guidelines, everyone is welcome here. But bottom line, this is my blog and at times I am going to write opinion pieces about what I want how I want. All the topics of the day are not “happy news” and if that makes some uncomfortable, so be it. Frankly, the subject of the potential of trading Brendan Ryan and its treatment here hardly seem way out there on the controversy scale.
Well said Brian.I admit i blast Westy`s nonsense.It`s his attitude that he is the only one who knows whats going on that ticks me off.Not everybody sees evertything negative in every move.To each his own.
I don’t agree with much of anything WC says, but he’s never been rude to me and I see no need to be rude to him or anyone else here… well, maybe crdswmn (on occasion) but that’s all in good fun. She gives grief as good as she gets, and being a lawyer, loves to argue.
Brian — I feel much the same way about attacks on certain members of the Cards team and coaching staff. It’s one thing to fairly criticize performance/decision-making, quite another to engage in personal smears… like those dumped on Oquendo & Skip yesterday on another thread.
I’m a Cards fan, have been for a long time, and it disturbs me to see those kind of attacks on anyone in the Cards organization. Fair criticism and defense of our favorites does make for stimulating discussions, but personal attacks (on the team or on each other) doesn’t do us much credit… proud fans of one of baseball’s most historic and storied franchises.
(That crashing noise you just heard was me… falling off my soapbox).
Like anything, there is a balance that can be viewed differently by others.
My comments were more oriented toward attacks on each other by posters. I’d have to go back and re-read the previous comments on Oquendo and Skip to see if they crossed the line in terms of the standards I defined for posting on this blog. I don’t recall thinking they did at the time.
For example, it is difficult to discuss Oquendo and managing without considering his qualifications and perceptions of his performance. That doesn’t mean we should attack him or his family, for example, but if some feel he has shortcomings in his work, they have to be able to say so, just as those who want to praise him can.
Brian — My comment was in reference to the remark about Jose’s nose and TLR’s tail and the gratuitous Skip slam that followed it. I don’t happen to think Oquendo is manager material either, but don’t see any reason to denigrate him personally.
Seems to me that those who engage in personal attacks on others invite the same in return… baseball blog karma.
HB, I made that statement about Jose’s nose but I did say I heard somebody else say it. I’m not qualified to make any kind of personal comment about him since I’ve never spoken a word to him. But the person’s who made the comments to me do know him on a personal basis and think he is little more than a mouthpiece for TLR. And that he has little to share in the way of individual thought without first getting TLR’s permission to give it. Their nickname given to him of the parrot echos that thought.
Discussion was probably well within a reasonable basis for sharing opinions. People get emotional about baseball and vent. This is normal and neither cannot, nor should not, be stilled.
I think qualifications for managing can be overrated. Some baseball managers may get their start because friends of an owner or GM, who makes the call.
Mr. Oquendo seems qualified to manage. If he is collegial and loyal to TLR or others, this seems a virtue and a responsibility of a coach, rather than a failing.
In a perfect world…….Jose is a good manager…….even a great manager. That’s baseball as I would like to see it.
That being said…………..as always………..what does baseball have to do with anything around here?
People who are public figures such as baseball managers, players, actors, politicians, etc are in a different category when it comes to public scrutiny. Such a person takes the risk that he or she is going to be criticized and sometimes harshly. There are limits such as personal attacks on that person’s family or friends who have done nothing to be criticized for except being associated with that person. An example would be the personal attacks made againat the President’s children.
I criticize TLR very harshly, but I do so only concerning his managing ability and style (and yes HB personality traits that affect his managing are fair game). I have never attacked things such as his personal appearance, which have nothing to do with his managing ability, nor would I. I would not attack his family. I have never attacked Skip personally either. I like Skip, I believe him to be a fine man, just a terrible 2Bman.
I criticize posters opinions here when I disagree with them. Sometimes my criticism is harsher when that opinion ignores facts or make statements that are illogical or irrational. I don’t recall ever calling a poster a derogatory name. There is a difference between saying a poster is illogical and saying he is stupid. An intelligent person can say illogical or irrational things.
If I am criticized I accept it and respond in kind. I am a smart aleck and I do not attempt to hide it. I am very sarcastic. Sarcasm may not be everyone’s cup of tea but it is not a personal attack. When I say something sarcastic I usually soften with
I also will soften some of my crticisms by pointing out to that person that I still value their opinion. If I am occasionally out of line I admit to it and apologize
Having said all that I do get annoyed by insinuations that I am not a true fan because I criticize someone or something that is done. This a forum for expressing opinions, not a cheerleading site. There are some posters who want this to be a cheerleading site and complain that it is not. Brian’s response to Jumbo was not an attack but an invitation to seek out a cheerleading site if this one is not to his liking. This is Brian’s site and he is entitled to post what he chooses to. I believe him to be as objective as any human being can be, but as a human being he has opinions and his opinions will sometimes be stated. I don’t agree with him 100% of the time nor do I suspect does he agree with me 100% of the time. I don’t want someone to agree with me 100% of the time because it would be boring.
Express your opinions and accept those of others. If you can’t then find someplace where you can. Not an attack but good advice.
I’m done.
Word……………lady……… my foil crown would look good on you……… I will offer it at some point.
I can accept Ryan staying with the club as a backup or trading him, if we can get something of value in return. I’d even be OK with him starting again, IF he he hits. It would be silly to just throw him away, unless the clubhouse ‘issues’ that several reporters are talking about are so severe that it makes keeping him a detriment to the team’s success.
Skip needs to be platooned vs. LHP, so why not keep Brendan and let him play SS vs. LHP, silding The Riot over to 2B? Ryan would also be a great late-innings defensive replacement and has the speed to pinch run and steal a base. On any TLR team, bench players get plenty of playing time. And it would make sense, especially condidering that we don’t really have better options currently in the organization (Greene, Solano and Kozma) for a backup SS.
I guess that I never did think it out far enough. If the team trades away Brendan Ryan, who does partner in the middle infield along with Theriot? Lopez and Miles are gone. I guess that Greene would be next in line? Descalso?
I wonder how the pitching staff views all of this fuss. I’m pretty sure that after their little squabble late last season that Chris Carpenter admitted that he was flat out demanding that Brendan Ryan man shortstop whenever he was on the mound.
Nut, the business of baseball has some surprising stories………. I may tell a few at some point on this subject………
I will say this………. every organization has an opinion based on scouting reports concerning Brendan Ryan……………… those scouting reports and pitching strategies are also the foundation of their estimation on what a Brendan Ryan fix might entail…………. All the local press coverage is managed……….to a specific end…………… we all must view that to the best of our abilities.
A fixed BR hitting 300, is worth a bundle…………. if they trade him, and somebody fixes him, that will be echoing for ?? years……….. much of whats happening now is simply “preparing” for all eventualities………… denials……in told ya so’s…….etc
Mo answers to that………not BD……….who will be the one making the final decision. If they take a beating on a trade to save a few dollars………….pity Mo.
HB, What would your response be if the Cards trade BR for practically nothing? Let’s say a couple of minor league prospects? Would you support the organization then?
crdswmn — As stated, I’m not in favor of throwing him away. If the team did so, I’d have to assume it was for a good reason, not just to be mean to Brendan or because TLR is the devil or whatever one might imagine… assuming the worst about the motivations of others.
I view management as being composed of mature, knowledgeable, professionals whose goal is to make the Cards a better team. I understand that we (and they) can disagree about how best to do that. And I realize that nobody is perfect and everyone makes mistakes… and that includes players and management… even us fans.
As Bw52 said, trades for prospects can take time to evaluate. Even if it initially looked like we were getting nothing, a longer view might show otherwise. So, whatever happens, it would be good to keep things in perspective and not assume the worst. Remember that lots of people didn’t think the Cards made a good deal trading Ernie Broglio for Lou Brock, either.
I’d feel precisely this way if the team traded Skip, or Albert, or Colby. I might like it or not, but I’d still be a Cards fan. It’s in my blood and has been since 1964. Over that time, I’ve seen managers, players and owners come and go. Yet my love for this game and this team is a constant… and so it shall remain, until the day they shovel some of the sacred soil of Texas over my cold dead body.
Okey dokey, you answered my question. No surprise there.
Crdswmn
Do you mind if i take a shot at your question.Trading BR for prospects would have to depend on the value of the prospects .Whats their ceiling and what their reasonable progression.Will they help this year or in a couple of years.Of course nothing is a sure thing for anybody.BR could be traded and end up falling completely apart or end up a defensive replacement if he doesn`t hit .He could turn into a solid all-round SS.Who knows? Any trade is a gamble of sorts.Think about how the Tigers wanted Doyle Alexander from the Braves and a minor league pitcher namesd Smoltz ended up in ATL.
Yes, BW every trade is a gamble. But some trades are a bust on their face. My point is that I have reservations that a BR trade is motivated by improving the team. I suspect it is more about getting rid of BR at any cost. And I also suspect that whatever BR’s “clubhouse issues” are they are exaggerated to justify moving him. JMO.
An issue of some interest………………… not only did Jeter take what they expected to pay, they deferred money………. not a Yankee custom…………..suggesting that Derek is now “captaining” their Cliff Lee posture……….
Tin foil postulation………….. Cardinals will go public as suggested……and there will be the threat of leaking the AP position too, which must eventually come to light in response to their offer…………
The illusion of “a median point” as in the Jeter negotiation will thus be averted. If AP comes in too high, they will hang him on it………………. and that will put him in a weak position should he reach the market somehow in 2012……………..
The Boston move makes life interesting……….Gonzales……Pesky Pole………Devil Rays…….
Just read that the Cards signed Lance Berkman! MLBTR…
One year deal… no money details included. Posted on MLBTR at 4:13 CST.
Read that Berkman will be part of the everyday lineup.Very interesting.
Holliday to RF… Berkman in LF, I guess.
No surprise. Will guarantee Skippy stays at 2B. Now we give away BR and TLR will be in heaven.
Oh, and MLBTR statment that Berkman’s performance in the outfield in 2007 in OF was “putrid’ is ah…..very telling.
$11 million for Berkman and theroit – that is ridiculous. That money could have been much better spent.
Good thing we got Berkaman cheap since we couldn’t afford Luddy !!!
Yeah, I’ll grant you that Ludwick on an arbitration salary would have been a much better deal.
Yippy……………………………….. he could fill in at first base too………….. John Jay just joined the trade group……………
Just think how many old farts we could get now.
*8 million starts to pressure center a bit to I’d guess…………. back up at first………likely bats 4th………..maybe second as a switch hitter……..be a waste at 5th……….the chance to split AP and MH would be a temptation for me.
Pressures AP………. Free’s up Rasmus a bit………. the leopard skip tights will loosen up the club house. Just the player we need………….endless ego needs………….plenty of food for a non christian.
Sorry was busy posting article on main site. Deal is for $8 million.
I thought Berkman couldn’t play the OF any more. I’m not sure what an OF of Berkman in left and Holliday in right would look like in real life. Could be brutal. With Theriot and Skip up the middle. DD might be wondering what he got himself into.
$8M says he’s going to play a lot.
He can’t play the OF. Just like Skip can’t play 2B Now all we need is a backup catcher who can’t catch, and backup 3B who can’t play 3B and we’re all set. World Series here we come.
You may be missing the point BB…………..Berkman was ” Free” as of today’s Gonzales move……
Don’t think for a second that the two aren’t related………….. Lozano is wincing……….. BD knows what he’s about……………….
It is going to be an interesting 2011. If we don’t sign Pujols before the start of the season, and the team finishes 2nd or 3rd in the Central, it is going to be ugly.
We looked at all our options. We felt like the deal we made earlier in the week [for Los Angeles Dodgers middle infield Ryan Theriot] brings some new energy to the club. Lance’s talent, his character and what he brings to club makes ///////us a better team and changes the makeup of the clubhouse. It’s a big add.”////////
These barbs are aimed directly at AP/YM to me………….. there frequency almost seems like a taunt to the “king and his court”………………. but hey…… the foil works…….
It’s definitely a move for offense over defense, no doubt about it. Think about this lineup:
Theriot (SS), Colby (CF), Albert (1B), Puma (LF), Matt (RF), Freese (3B), Yadi (C), Skip (2B), Pitcher… Speed at the top, three 100-RBI guys 3-5, clutch RBI guys in the 6-7 holes too, and a career .292 hitter batting 8th.
Of course, there will be many variations, RHP vs. LHP, with Skip sitting out against LHP and maybe Colby some too. On those days, the RH SS option (Ryan or other) replaces Skip with Theriot sliding over to 2B. Craig could sub for Colby and you could put Matt in the 2 hole.
Yep, it’s a weaker squad defensively, but maybe there won’t be too many close games if you score a ton of runs.
Craig probably won’t end up playing CF. If he did, that would be a gruesome outfield.
However, I agree that the team is shaping up to be strong offensively. I’m a little surprised that they went out and paid that kind of money for Berkman to play the outfield, but given that it’s a one-year deal and that he’s an all-around strong switch-hitter, I’m pleased. It beats a Jay/Craig platoon, for sure. Those guys can serve as the team’s fourth and fifth outfielders, as would better suit their talents.
Nut — Good catch on Craig… can’t see him playing CF either, now that you mention it. That would leave a role for Jay.
Word is they are moving Craig back to 3B.
Interesting, considering he flubbed his once chance there last year. Maybe what crdswmn said about having a 3B back-up who can’t play 3B was a premonition!
It will probably Lopez the sequel.
That is interesting. If he can figure it out, then great. If not, this is going to be a very poor defensive team. Very poor.
Another reason to hang on to Skip. (Sorry crdswmn!)
Was there any reason to believe they weren’t?
No. He has the support of his manager and the GM and the track record to stay. Career .292 hitter, good teammate, great work ethic and defensive versatility.
You can’t be defensively versatile when you have no defense at all.
I would call that an overstatement.
I wouldn’t.
The way I see it, while this move is good for the offense (assuming Berkman stays healthy) the big hit to the defense really harms our pitching staff. All the more reason to keep BR at least as a platoon SS for LHP. I don’t think it will happen. Unless we upgrade defensively at 2B which won’t happen because TLR wants Skip at 2B, our pitching staff is going to suffer big time.
Now we just wait to see who we get in trade for BR. With the $8 million going to Berkman, I can’t see the Cardinals trading for anyone who will cost us much which means probably garbage players.
Here’s a potential 25-man roster…
Starting Rotation: Waino, Carp, Jaime, Jake and Lohse
Relief Corps: Franklin, KMac, Motte, Boggs, Salas, Miller, Tallet
Starting Position Players: Yadi (C), Albert (1B), Skip (2B), Theriot (SS), Freese (3B), Lance (LF), Colby (CF), Matt (RF)
Bench: Backup catcher TBD, Craig, Jay, Brendan, Backup IF (Greene/Descalso?)
Of course, if Brendan is traded, that leaves another hole and the Greene/Descalso spot might also be filled with an inexpensive journeyman. Maybe Ryan stays… wouldn’t hurt my feelings at all.
Glaring hole in LH relief.
This Tallet guy has L/R splits that make him a perfect Loogy. Haven’t seen him pitch, so I’ll withhold judgment until I do. But LH bats hit just .179 against him last year and his numbers looked good outside of Toronto.
Miller has been pretty solid but was overused last year, facing both R/L batters due to the injuries to Penny/Lohse, the short outings of those who replaced them (Suppan, Hawks, PJ) and by the restricted way Jaime was used… often going little more than 6 innings. That led to overwork for both Reyes and Miller, bigger roles than the lefty specialists they are.
And don’t forget that one of KMac’s key calling cards is that he’s very effective vs. LH hitters. So it may not be that bad, but there is some exposure to be sure.
Agreed, CC. An improvement over Tallet would make this a reasonably competitive club.
Via MLBTR:
•Cardinals GM John Mozeliak said that his team’s lineup is set for 2011 after today’s Lance Berkman pickup, reports Derrick Goold of The St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Twitter links). Mozeliak described the team’s payroll as “leaking,” adding that Berkman received a higher salary as a trade-off for just one year.
Did I suggest the Cards might sign Berkman? I forget, but it rings a bell.
This is a signing for Tony LaRussa. He wants a pro who goes about his business. Berkman can hit 5th, protection for Holliday and Pujols. Berkman has long been one of the best hitters in the league. Rasmus can move down to 6th or 7th.
The downside is he is 35 and will be ho-hum with the glove. He is probably an injury risk.
While Holliday and Berkman are not nifty defensively, neither is Craig. Who would we rather have in the lineup, Berkman or Craig? Berkman.
Mo has moved decisively to add Westbrook and Berkman. While I am no big fan of Theriot, at least Mo is making clear moves.
When Allen Craig was playing 3B in the minors, TLR only played him at 1B during spring training. The claim by the Cards that Craig will now get a chance at 3B is far-fetched. It sounds like a winter time happy story, made up by Mo, not by TLR.
The Cards have often had at least one ho-hum LOOGY. There were several years when Randy Flores was around, including one season in which he was the only lefty in the pen. So the Cards may be done with lefties, now they have Tallet to supplement Miller.
They will still need to add a backup catcher.
Mo’s style is different from Walt Jocketty. Jocketty is patient and waits for bargains like Gomes. Mo attacks the free agent market early, willing to spend $$$ to secure targeted players.
I think that the universe may be about to collapse within itself here, but I’m going to defend the Cardinals from Jumbo’s assertions a little bit here.
While I have questions over whether or not the move of Craig can actually work, I’m nearly 100% certain that they mean to try. If the team has now spent itself out of money, there are only two positions that aren’t absolutely locked into place – second base and third base. Any younger player or bench player who the team hopes to make a regular impact on the team will have to do from those positions, outside of injury. As booting Schumaker to the bench against RHP has to be nearly impossible and as Craig clearly can’t cut it as a middle infielder, third base is his only shot. As Craig is their top (or maybe second best) minor league bat, they are do their best to fit him in at the only spot open.
(Being unable to fix hasty typos burns at my soul)
That’s funny stuff, Nut!
Who do you think is the best option at 2B against LHP, Nut?
Theriot.
My second question is about backup catcher. If the Cards are out of money, then who could they possibly get as a backup catcher in trade that is cheaper thatn BR? Will they use Anderson? If they do, then all I can see us getting for BR are cheap minor leagur prospects. Your thoughts, Nut.
Yes, typos bother me too.
I smell a Jay or Ryan trade for a backup catcher. I don’t really want to lose either of those guys, but they’re probably the only two pieces we have with any value on the MLB club that Mo would part with and guys in the minor leagues appear to be off-limits so far.
Backup catchers aren’t expensive. LaRue only made about $800K last year. That’s less than Brendan would win in arbitration. Any catcher who is really ‘impact’ isn’t going to want to be a backup. To make Dunc/pitching staff happy, we need a solid defensive receiver… and I don’t think he’s happy with the prospect of Bryan Anderson.
I agree with the others. A backup catcher won’t be too expensive. They should easily be able to find one late in FA if desired.
TLR wanted no part of Craig at 3B during spring training 2009. This was the great spring of moving Skip to 2B and trying Joe Mather at 3B. Wallace and Craig, then playing 3B, got no shot.
TLR generally likes good D at 3B. Its why he loved having Rolen. In 2005, TLR put SS and good gloveman Abe Nunez at 3B after Scott was knocked out by injury. This year we traded for the offensively broken Pedro Ruiz to finish up the season at 3B, with defense again the common thread. We could have played Craig at 3B during September, it this were promising.
I guess Craig could get a little playing time at 3B this spring. But this story seems more likely a nice tale. If the Cards do not add a veteran 3B, they may be expecting Matt Carpenter to provide depth by mid-2011. But they cannot admit this, because he has not even taken one at bat for Memphis yet.
Or, mentioning Craig as a 3Bman could be a tactic in trying to negotiate a lower contract with a veteran free agent, as in we are not hurting, we have Craig, Descalso, and Greene in the mix for backup at 3B.
Berkman was bad against lefties in 2010. Craig can collect 20 starts in LF and give Lance some days off.
Jumbo, where are we going to get the money for a veteran 3B and a veteran backup C? We just paid $8 million to Berkman.
Freese is still considered the primary 3B-man. Talk about another guy there has always been about a backup. Craig is far from ideal, as Jumbo says. In a pinch, we could use Ryan, Greene or Descalso there, though none of them are ideal since none have the RBI/power profile of a corner infielder. But it could work short term. It’s an exposure, given the history of Fragile Freese.
Prime vets like Berkman cost a lot. By January and February, cheap signs will be possible
Berkman is a bit like Penny last winter. He was a star, had injuries. He wants to try to bounce back to an elite level, age 35. We shall see what unfolds.
There is always the option of a minor league FA with MLB experience at 3B…………Travis Metcalf,Matt Macri,Mike Lamb or low cost guys non-tendered.Andy LaRoche,Greg Dobbs.
Same with Backup Catcher………….Chris Gimeniz,Dusty Ryan,Steve Holm,Kyle Phillips etc.
Yes, they could and should do that. In the case of 3B, however, they can’t promise Triple-A starters’ ABs with Carpenter set to play there with Memphis.
baseballheavendeleteedit
Cardinals Trade target: Andrew McCutchen
MLB.com’s Jenifer Langosch says the Pirates have mild interest in Cardinals shortstop Brendan Ryan. With that in mind, I immediately wondered who the Pirates have that might interest the Cardinals.
At first thought, a Brendan Ryan for mid-level player trade seems likely. However, with Colby Rasmus (as well as Ryan) seemingly always in LaRussa’s doghouse, this has the potential for a blockbuster trade. The Pirates have one of the few players in the majors to match up with Rasmus in talent AND salary…Andrew McCutchen.
A trade involving Brendan Ryan and Colby Rasmus would have to net Andrew McCutchen and another member of the Pirates. The question is who? If the Redbirds could swing a deal for McCutchen and Evan Meek or Garrett Jones then they couldn’t pass it up. It seems that the Bucs have lost a little faith in Jones, while they are much higher on Meeks.
In my opinion, the Rasmus/McCutchen deal is nearly a wash. So it comes down to how much Brendan Ryan’s remarkable defense is valued, and how much you can live without his bat. At his best, he’s a .280 hitter. At his worst, he’s basically a pitcher in disguise. But his defense has to be seen personally to be believed. If he could hit at all he would have won a gold glove.
Brendan Ryan for Evan Meek? Brendan Ryan for Garrett Jones? Colby Rasmus for Andrew McCutchen?
Am I way off base on this?
First of all, welcome baseballheaven. That is quite a first post.
At first blush, Ryan for Meek seems reasonable. I have no idea what the Cards would do with Garrett Jones, given he is a poor man’s Lance Berkman and those positions are pretty full these days. I don’t think Rasmus is going anywhere, but the McCutchen idea looks like an interesting one. I think Rasmus is better, but not by a huge gulf. I am sure others will have impressions.
????????? That move would pretty much finish the Cardinal youth moment……….. except for Freese.
That in itself makes it very unlikely……………. I know we hate to pitch to McCutchen……….I like him as a hitter…………… that being said…………Pittsburgh needs neither………….. Bucks are just shopping for fixer uppers………..that’s what they do……….. McC will be worth a bundle in coming years. 1/100 if that.
They announced that there will be no public participation in the AP negotiations………… lets see how long that holds.
I’ll admit I’m wrong about Garrett Jones. Initially I thought Berkman was better from the right side and Jones could platoon from the left side. Upon further review, they are both remarkably better hitters against righties. So you are correct, he would have little value to the Cards except possibly a future trade.
Berkman’s OPS:
2010 RHP .847/LHP .517
Career RHP 1.010/LHP .776
Jones’ OPS:
2010 RHP .775/LHP .621
I’m still very high on Rasmus and hope he never goes AND lives up to his potential. For both of those to come true, it seems like a reach thus far. I just hope we don’t have to replay the JD Drew days again. As far as Brendan Ryan goes, I’d hate to see him go, but it is looking pretty imminent at this point. So if we are going to lose one or both of these talents, I hope we can get something in return other than a mediocre prospect or PTBNL. Man it’s going to be hard to cheer for Theriot…he was a Cub!!! Thanks for the blog.
Career RHP .854/LHP .630
There is the possibility BBH, that it may be hard to cheer for him under any pretense. Ouch!
The Cardinals have a grim history, in my experience, of signing players for appearances, not baseball related issues………………….. Theriot played for a team that won in an incredibly weak division. A team that thought that Miles could contribute…..that Soriano was the answer, add Bradley. They dumped him in a salary bail hookup with Lilly………… he was as high profile, cost control reject………..with numbers to prove it…………Kalil comes to mind…. on a one year commitment. It kept them out of the FA market………….
I don’t have a problem with Berkman………..playing 1st………..he will parish in the outfield. That being almost certain………..look how the Cardinal fans have taken it…………..
If Pujols were to go into this season as a lame duck……………….Cardinal fans can only loose. His chances of overcoming those pressure are slim and none…………. If he cranks, on the fuel of “I told you so” inpressuring BD……..he won’t be paid……….if he fails, he will be bitter and leave………50% chance he would sit out a large portion of the season with some injury…………
Worst case scenario………..he signs……..and we keep making these ridiculous player acquisitions, and become the team with the greatest unsupported hero in the universe. Nightmare.
There is still the chance that Theriot was intended to play 2nd all along. Like a bird laying its egg in someone elses nest……………slowly pushing Skip out. If they keep Ryan I would expect that to happen. We will no more by next week……………………… it appears we are going to the dead pool for a catcher……………..that makes sense……………..
It does appear to me as well WC that the cards have a different way of looking at player acquisitions. It seems that most moves are made with the idea that their coaches are superior at rebuilding broken down players. Buy on the cheap, have your guys rebuild the guy and feel like you got over on the entire markerplace by being smarter than everyone else. That seems to be the plan but it seems to rarely work out the way it seems to be drawn up.
I spoke to a guy last night and told him about the Cardinals signing Berkman. His response was “did we trade Albert? “. I said No, Berkman is going to play LF. He said “what!!, on the big league club or at Memphis?” I said word is in St. Louis. He just shook his head and laughed as he walked away. And then came back in and said, “Well my UZR will go back up this year”.
I doubt Albert will sit out WC but I did think that if Albert decides BD isn’t going to pay him it would be a dandy time to get that elbow fixed.
I will be honest, If I was Albert I would be busting at the seams to get to Boston or New York so as to have a supporting cast around me that was going to be great every year. World Series Championships would be my goal. But watching Albert these last few years I’m not sure that is what drives him. I actually believe he is all about the history of the game and all about putting his stamp on it, which he will by the way. He seems focused on himself and his work and doesn’t really bother with worrying about anyone else, unless it affects his play.
So WC, I see the same things you do……a superstar or two surrounded by little in the way of greatness. Its like putting a brand new porsche motor in a volkswagon beetle. The motor will run hard and strong but the beetle body will fall apart during all of the stress.
Except the latest reclamation projects dont appear that cheap!
The elbow is the likely way out RC. I agree. BD is likely insured well around that elbow……….
Your analysis of he personal focus is good too…………… I would focus a bit more on his attempts at spiritual realization via baseball performance………………….. That mixed with some of his “territorial expressions of reproductive potency” ………….. make this a wild guess………. but I’m pretty sure that path is well know. And its a “bitch” of a climb…………………….Just about the time you’ve picked out the nails for your hands and feet……………… your facing Haladay with the bases loaded………..
you either make him the Roman…………or you pick up a sword…………… I believe there to be a tiny bit of conflict in this decision…………………….. He is 0/2 so far…………. Lets be honest………..the NY and Boston fans are going to put a sword in your hand whether you like it or not. If he signs here, fresh robe and sandals in his locker everyday………… and an occasion flirtation with Mary M……and of course the daily beat down of the young bucks……………and always plenty of help from Tony and the press when your cross gets a little “heavy”……….
No. You guys can’t have it both ways. If Pujols only cares about his personal stats and his legacy and whatnot, then he’s not going to schedule and unneeded surgery during the middle of the season and miss out on prime playing time out of spite or a negotiating tactic. He has all of his consecutive season streaks to worry about, as well as the career HR record.
“You guys” ? There is only one person with the crazy theory about Pujols elbow. Of course he has gone from all but guaranteeing Pujols will be out with the elbow surgery to a significant hedge ot that position. Either way, I’m sure he’ll tell us he told us in advance.
Cardinals moved on Pujols elbow before the 2009 season……….during the cleanup by Palleta, he asked Albert if he didn’t want to just do it now………………… Lozano took Pujols out of Cardinal hands pre 2010 to verify he status…..should the Cards try moving him or misrepresent his status. The got a independent verification from Andrews with movie…………………………
Their only possible motivation was slowing him down while collecting for it at the same time. AP didn’t speak to the press all winter if I recall……………… I doubt””””””””””””” that any of those issues are “forgotten at this delicate time……………….
The bottom line………….he wants to stay here……………and I still see as many outs as ins………including BD’s behavior this last week………….. Lozano walked from BHS for a reason…….you seen it yet…………
Seen what? It doesn’t have to be cryptic. Go on record Westie – Pujols signs or doesn’t sign with STL? Or signs at what value? You are always all over the map yet want people to take you seriously. Step up to the plate!
Go on the record……………………….???????????????? get lost chump……….I’m all over the record……
There is a game going on…………and your in Brazil……. and spend most of your time being a dumb antagonist……………….. talk to you………..and you say $$$$ like this just to read your name. Your back on the bench.
You got that right, you’re all over the (board regarding your) record. Well. if the choice is a dumb antagonist or an ignorant blowhard, I know which one I prefer.
Gents, please return to civility. Thank you.
Some funnies to lighten things up
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/534743-the-100-funniest-sports-commercials-of-the-past-twenty-years#page/14
Man it seems that I missed a good bit of action last night. A little name calling cleanses the soul.
I try to involve myself in some name calling at least once a week so as not to allow the frustration to continue to build. Let it out and be free.