Now and then, as I catch up on my morning reading, I will share information regarding St. Louis Cardinals subjects currently in the news.
Uggla interest
The Post-Dispatch has a bit more optimistic take than the earlier Matthew Leach blog post (“a long shot”) on the Cardinals’ potential interest in Marlins star Dan Uggla. Both include the same concern over the acquisition cost of the second baseman in terms of players required. The P-D story does acknowledge the Cardinals believe they could cover Uggla’s 2011 salary.
An MLB.com Monday report said the Marlins are asking for a pitcher and catcher in return for Uggla with the Nationals, Blue Jays, Braves and Tigers among the interested.
Other infield options
Over the weekend, Buster Olney of ESPN suggested the Cardinals would vigorously pursue infielder Juan Uribe, late of the San Francisco Giants. In the same P-D article that discusses Uggla, it is mentioned that Cardinals GM John Mozeliak will meet with Uribe’s agent this week in Orlando.
The club also has continued interest in Miguel Tejada, says the article, while painting a picture that the Cards may not pursue Japanese import Tsuyoshi Nishioka. The cost of the latter will include both his contract and posting fee paid to his Japanese club.
Pujols contract timing
Mo tells Joe Strauss he plans to engage the Albert Pujols camp on contract discussions before Christmas.
One of the posters on The Cardinal Nation message board, TheEckFactor, ran into Albert on Monday in Springfield, IL, where the first baseman is apparently involved in the opening of a sports facility. He shared a photo.
Westbrook odds improving
In a bit of a surprise, Fox Sports’ Ken Rosenthal reports that “Cardinals growing more optimistic on signing (Jake) Westbrook. A week ago, team thought odds were only 50-50.”
In other news, the early winter price of pitching remains high. The Dodgers re-signed free agent pitcher Hiroki Kuroda to a one-year, $12 million contract that includes an additional $500,000 in incentives and full no-trade protection.
Oquendo interview
Despite dealing with the death of his father over the weekend, new Mets general manager Sandy Alderson spent two hours in Orlando on Monday interviewing Jose Oquendo for the open managerial role in New York.
The Post-Dispatch report notes that Tony La Russa spent time with Oquendo, helping him prepare for the interview.
One report had Oquendo being the last of ten first-round interviews, but SI’s Jon Heyman tweeted there may be more candidates added to the mix. The original schedule was said to lead to a decision by the early December Winter Meetings.
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I like Uribe and Tejada under TLR. These two would be good choices imo. Signings like this will allow TLR to be his best. Like Bling stated…..there is a nice book on these guys so Tony can bring out his notebook and put some good matchups together.
I guess Mo may have to go high like he did with Holliday to get Westbrook in order to make it appear that he did not give Luddy away for nothing.
Uggla talk is just PR work to appease the cardinal fans, and to make them believe that a big name signing is under consideration.
Not likely imo.
An early Albert signing could happen but it would really come as a surprise to me. The Cards could make it happen by getting up around the 30 mil mark from the start. But the odds are that this will drag on until January a year from now.
Not sure how much help Tony can be in interview preparation considering he has only had a few in the last 30 years.
Oquendo may need to get some advice from someone who has been through a bunch of interviews.
Uribe would be a solid get for second – but I thought we weren’t replacing Skip?
Oh, I see, we’d probably stick Uribe at third, which is undeniably his worst defensive position.
So, whereas I see Tejada as a nice backfill at third and Uribe as a nice option at second, that is, almost without question, not how it would go down if we signed both of them.
What we would do => Skip would still start. Miggy would play short. Uribe would play third.
And our defense would be willfully worse for no reason.
What we should do => Boot Skip, replace him with Uribe, keep Brendan at short, and try Miggy at third and our defense is significantly better.
Tejada is in a situation that is perfect for him in SD.Why leave? He gets time at 3B and SS and he had a good rum there.I would be surprised if the Cards signed Both.Uribe would be a power upgrade and would his offense balance out his defense? I still think Cards will pull something out of their hats and deal with a surprise team.Misdirection.
RC, word is that TLR knows the conductor of the interview pretty well. That would hold some value, wouldn’t it?
Bw52, the answer is always the same. Money is why…
Brian, if it does, then there really isn’t much need for an interview. TLR can make a call and there it is……………Oquendo is the new manager of the Mets.
I guess we will see if TLR has any pull with Sandy or if he just thinks he does. I believe Tony’s biggest problem in helping somebody is his blind loyalty. If you know him or just watch him on the TV you can see that he makes the dumbest comments from time to time because he likes somebody. I mean he is either blind loyal or dumb loyal. In other words I’m not sure I would believe anything he said about anyone because I believe he would lie in a second if you were his friend. In other words, Oquendo will be having his stop signs run by Albert again in 2011. He ain’t going nowhere.
Misdirection BW? I like it. But I do feel that Mo and the cardinals are like an ant bed most of the time. An Ant bed that has been kicked in……..with ants going in every direction……looking for something to grab onto.
Not sure why Bw52 thinks Uribe is a poor defender.
He’s not. He is a very good defender. He always has been. He has lost enough range to make short probably not optimal for him as a permanent job at this point but he is no worse than average even there.
Brian-Its about money for every team except the Yankees,Red Sox,Phillies and Angels.Everybody thinks before spending and most try to get bang for their bucks.Why should The Csrds get ripped every time they try and be fiscally responsible? This isn`t Playstation baseball or simply baseball trading Cards.People need to realize these are business decisions made by the team.
Uggla is obviously a longshot but not impossible.Uribe i have been touting since midseason as a versatile supersub.Same with Ty Wiggington…although rumor is that he wants to stay in Baltimore.
Most fans would like to see the Westbrook situation be finished one way or another.
If Uribe comes on board does Ryan stay? If Ryan stays that would mean Descalso spends another year in Memphis or is it Tyler Greene who starts in AAA?
If Uribe or Wiggington (the misdirection?) sign on is Jon Jay the odd man out? Stavinoha? Stavi pinch pretty well but what else does he offer? Emergency Catcher?
Easton-Uribe was slightly below average range wise at SS last year.Okay he`s average everywhere.I can live with that.He`s not a great OBP guy either.I still like the pop he offers and the versatility..If he can be had 2yrs 5 million each year why not?
Okay, I agree, I guess, but I still don’t see how Uribe is a below average defender. At second he is borderline elite and I guess I can’t get myself to call him below average at short either. I like his hands, his instincts, etc.
Oh well. Either way, he would be a nice fit for us.
Incredible…………………………………………………………………………….
The Mets have many problems……………retooling will take a while………… the question is, which way do the go………….. If they are going to off Reyes and Beltran………..why do they need Oquendo? To motivate Jason Bay? Santana has always had an affinity for North American culture………..
Uribe played 103 games last year at SS, 26 at 3B and 24 at 2B. As as SS he made 6 errors and had a FPCT of .984. At the hot corner he made 3 errors with a FPCT of .957 and at 2B he made no errors.
Batting average was just .248 but he had 24 doubles, 24 HR’s and 85 RBI.
Judging by the context of TLR and Mozeliak’s statements about upgrading at SS, might well be that is where he is wanted. He could back up all the other IF positions outside of first base as well.
Re: Oquendo and the Mets… they seem to feature a lot of Latin players so maybe Jose being a Spanish speaker is a factor working in his favor. I’d be surprised if he gets the job, nor would I wish a NY manager’s position on anyone I like and respect. Tough place to make a buck.
Uribe is what he is: a capable if not above average defender, especially at second, who can fill an infield spot with low OBP pop.
He can get overwhelmed by dominant stuff and will always have issues with even modest breaking balls. He is a mistake hitter. Feels like a good six or seven hitter with all the OBP we should be able to line up in front of him.
Mr. Walton………………what does “sensitive” mean………. (he said, in a second grade voice)
Will we be hold up the market while we talk to AP? Showing him the carnage that is real life. What if nobody cares?…………………….it appears that BD has pegged AP as a coward and Lozano a bluffer. And yet……….Lozano has left BHS for a reason………….but we aren’t making any serious moves, because we are confident that AP will see “reason”………..
If Atalanta moves on Uggla………likely……….another 2nd baseman hits the market.
This is an older post, but it somehow seems relevant today.
Quotes
Timing is important,” Mozeliak said. “We don’t want it to drag out this winter. I wouldn’t say it’s at a critical juncture right now, but I’d like to think between now and the Christmas holiday we’d start addressing it.”
(He sees the negotiation as a “drag out” affair?????????
Those negotiations failed to take off last winter after only one spring training dinner meeting between Mozeliak and Pujols’ agent, Dan Lozano.
(What do you suppose has changed??????????
Mozeliak indicated “next month may be a critical time, but standing here right now I don’t want to get too far ahead of things. I still have to talk to Dan, and I want to remain respectful of the sensitivity of the issue.”
(The sensitivity??????????? for AP injured self esteem??????? an appeal for sympathy from AP……to not take offense………..by their need to trade him…….. if they can’t (won’t) satisfy his demands??????? Critical timing………before all the other teams have blown their dough or prospects?????………”.remain respectful”…………………what? it could become contentious?
“Mozeliak characterizes Pujols’ status as “independent” of the team’s plans this winter. Since Pujols will earn the same salary in 2011 as in 2010, his salary does not impact the short-term projections. However, Mozeliak acknowledges an extension would impact the club going forward. The issue appears largely moot for now, according to Mozeliak, because the club is not making a long-term commitment within this winter’s free agent market.
(Independent????????? he isn’t going to be bribed by “signings” maybe……………no long range signings…?????? Still waiting to “try and win something”?????? They are going to go lame duck in 2011 with AP???????????
This looks very much like what has been predicted here……… its impossible to say whether they are shepherding him away at this point…………..but this article tells Lozano what the game is………now the contest for him is to get Albert to man up, and not just run at the low bid……….you can fully expect a response from Lozano on this article……..which by the way was also intended to inform and alert other GM of the ground rules……………. and likely outcome.
I don’t see any baseball coming our way………..
On a sad not, Coach Callahan, the head baseball coach at SIU passed away. Coach Cal recruited my third son, Cyle, but Cyle ended up going to junior college and is currently at Elon. Cyle’s a southern boy to his core, not really sure he could stomach talking to people with a Northern accent too often but he really wrestled with the decision of not going to SIU because of coach Cal. He really like that guy and Coach Cal even kept up with Cyle these last two years. Needless to say Cyle has been pretty broken up about Coach Cal’s passing. Coach was the type of guy who wasn’t afraid to show his players that he cared about them….rare in this day and time.
Coach Cal was a huge Cardinals fan and he kept in touch with me these last two years about all that is cardinals baseball. He really loved the cardinals. I’ll miss the chats and the occassional messages about all that was cardinals baseball from Coach Cal. He was a really good man. I will miss him.
http://siusalukis.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/111510aaa.html
Rejoice in his passing RC……….take up the slack in your own life. Remembering people well is all that we can really offer in this life………..let him help you coach now. Sounds like you’ve already figured that out though.
Bw52, I’m a big Wigginton fan. I’d be thrilled if the Cardinals picked him up. He never seems to get enough interest despite his power and positional versatility, in my opinion.
if tejada gets offered arb, and declines, i’m not interested at the expense of a 1st round pick. especially with he and uribe being similar acquisitions for similar $.
i could get behind the jake signing if i knew the budget would allow for two infielders also. if it’s jake and one infielder, i’d prefer two infielders (uggla + one of uribe/hudson/tejada) and fill SP in-house.
dear santa, Mo can do a better job on 20mil, than 15mil. plz drop an extra 5mil in johnny Mo’s stocking, c/o stl budget.
thanks so much santa! er-uh bill! (you know we’re coming through the gates)
I am cautiously optimistic about the Westbrook signing, but I am not holding my breath.
Get Juan Uribe by all means if we can’t get Uggla, just put him at 2B.
I don’t think Oquendo has much chance for the Mets job.
wainwright takes 2nd in the CY voting. his 2012 and 2013 club option years, are now guaranteed years.
Wainwright still very good value the next 3 years27.5 million.
6.5 in 2011
9.0 in 2012
12.0 in 2013
not going to break the bank.Now lets hope he stays healthy.
Nutlaw-Wiggington would be a nice addition.Rumor says he really wants to stay in Baltimore.He is 2 years older than Uribe and made less money last year.He also has a All-Star game last year on his resume”.
Bw52. in case you didn’t see it the first time, this summer I compared Wainwright’s contract to those of Lincecum and Cain.
Mozeliak deserves a lot of credit.
I just hope Waino’e elbow is OK and he can get the Cy next year.
Brian-thanks i hadn`t seen that.Good move by Mo.Of course the rabble will never give him credit for thator other moves.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_c123414c-f19c-11df-a0c2-00127992bc8b.html
This carefully crafted gem by Jeff G, is a marvel of directed “propaganda”………..he does not make those things up………. It tells everyone what the Cardinals offer will be…………… and I will go this far…… Albert will be prodded to help out the club in 2011 by not taking to much time to quibble with this offer, least they be unable to move in the market……………….he is being forced to evaluate his agents vision of a move away from his security blankets here is St Louis………….
I’ll give him credit when he makes a good one. So far, though he hasn’t given any indication he is going to do that.
No question the Wainwright contract was a winner.
Oh and BW—I am not rabble. Just someone who disagrees with you about many things.
Crdswmn-rabble is a generic term for the bashers.Kind of like lapdog.
Mo has made several good moves
Signing Wainwright longterm
Holliday
Franklin
Molina long term
Trever Miller
Westy-so Mo said he has to think long term? What`s the big deal? Are you so narrow-minded in your disdain for the FO you get all warped over a simple blanket statement.
Marlins signing C John Buck 3 years 15 million per MLBtraderumors.I think that makes him the 4th highest paid Marlin behind Josh Johnson,Hanley Ramirez and Uggla.
stop the presses! jeff gordon pressures the AP camp into a decision with his current offseason summary.
story at 5:00 pm, stay tuned!
Really Bip………………………….. there are few parts of JG’s article that aren’t carefully groomed communications for all the interested parties. He is speaking “for” the front office…..to all of baseball. Lozano’s phone is either ringing off the hooks, or more predictably, not at all……
Current off season summery?…………….right.
From Gordon’s article:
“Manager Tony La Russa considers him a key piece of the team chemistry.”
As an outsider looking in it seems team chemistry is pretty bad. IF so, why would you want to keep a key piece of that?
I don’t think low OBP pop is what Mo is after. Imo, he will look for a top of the order guy, or guys, with nice OBP and at least reasonably good speed. Not a newbie though, somebody Tony can be comfortable with. 150 Ks would not be considered.
Descalso could be playing 3B in winter league right now, but he’s not. That seems like it clears up one possibility.
Descalso is starting to sober up BB……………his only chance is to shine covering an injured player… Its a patience issue…………may as well be fresh.
I liked him over alternatives, but I became uncomfortable about his hitting. He jacked one down wind….30mph……..in Reno…………..but he seemed awkward to me up here………like a switch hitter from his weak side…………… He is a competitor though.
CC, I believe the pitchers are a group who’s goal it is to do everything they can to help the team win. This is a tribute to Carps leadership and you have to give Duncan credit for how he runs his pitchers and you never have a problem. They are always on the same page, helping each other to be better players. Theres is a model for success. I believe these guys actually pull for each other and care about their teammates. This is why they are successful as a group.
Now the rest of the group may not have the same level of concern for one another.
Tony likes Skip………………I’m sure he would like to see him stay in baseball.(unlike Chris D.)
He has no value at this point save to have Tony’s confidence. Another slow start and you’re talking about a release. 50/50………….no use saying that you would trade him. He might be adequate with a different hitting philosophy.
Dan Uggla at Brave.traded for Omar Infante and P Mike Dunn.
Marlins save almost 8 million dollars by trading Uggla.Infante will make 2.5 million and Mike Dunn makes the minimum.So with the signing of C John Buck and getting Infante and Dunn Marlins are close to where they started the day money wise.
That was fast.
Cardinals Rumors – MLBTradeRumors.com Bartolo Colon Back On The Radar http://bit.ly/aDeY46 #cardinals
23 hours ago via twitterfeed · Like · Comment · View Feedback (2)Hide Feedback (2)
Ian Watson Let’s sign another retred that is cheap!!!! Bill Dewitt is such a fag
That really you Nut?
The fact that the Marlins traded Uggla so fast to an intra division team for so little return (talent, not money) makes me wonder if the Marlins are hidiing something. It’s not like they haven’t done it before……..
Walton. Not Watson. Also, I lean toward proper punctuation and a lack of homophobia. That said, Colon would be a horrible signing.
Infante is a nice player. The Marlins did alright for themselves, which is good because a straight salary dump would deserve to get them contracted from the league after their blatant revenue sharing and ballpark theft. They are a detestable organization, so for all of our complaining from time to time, at least we aren’t fans of that crooked team.
I’ll be damned. We signed Westbrook 2years with a 3rd year option. Don’t know the dollars yet.
Uggla had a 3.7 WAR (4.7 batting, -1.0 fielding) while Infante had a 2.9 WAR (2.1 batting, 0.8 fielding) in 2010. Uggla is clearly the better player, but Infante is no slouch. Solid defender at multiple positions. Third highest batting average in the NL in 2010.
Great news. Westbrook in the house. Man I felt that Mo was gonna have to sign Westbrook because if he didn’t then the fans would complain to the nth degree about giving Luddy away with nothing to show.
Huge upgrade for the Braves. Just left Tim Hudson’s hitting facility here in Phenix and Timmy said he thought Uggla would be a Brave by days end. There’s that big RH bat that they needed.
I am excited about the 2011 rotation. The offense not so much. The PD reports Waino’s elbow is completely healed.
MLBTrade Rumors reports Westbrook deal 2years 16.5 MM.
I’m actually not so thrilled about Westbrook. I guess that a short deal is okay, but paying reasonably large dollars for average major leaguers doesn’t get you very far.
I would still rather have Ludwick.
2/$16.5 is less than I would have thought after the Dodgers’ signings.
Well with the addition of Westbrook you still just have what you had at the end of the season. Its not really an upgrade from last years team.
Jumbo will tell us that Westbrook realized that playing in St. louis was such a positive that he took less money to return.
Some report say it is a mutual option on the 3rd yr, If mutual option, only an OK deal. Mutual option’s suck for the team.
Didn’t Westie tell me a few weeks ago that the Westbrook talk was all a charade, just for show. I’ve got to stop believing everything that guys says.
Having re-read that tweet above, sorry Nut.
He took the option and buy out like I said…………….. Sorry about the Atlanta thing RC. Good news is AP just dipped another 15% in probabilities. That’s all the money they will spend……….now for the trade.
Well Nut, rumor is that the Padres are leaning toward non-tendering Ludwick, so who knows.
Good job Mozeliak… tick one off the old ‘to-do’ list… Uribe is next!
Well, you forgot about the backup catcher, Westie. So far Mo is sticking to his m.o. He should be popping for a mil or so any day now.
Like I’ve stated numerous times, Mo doesn’t have a real good idea about timing in such things.
Or he has perfect timing……….. Unless the trade comes through, they will be dealing with AP from this position………….. tells you where their heading………..I’m elated……….and not about Westbrook so much.
I don’t know BB………it looks to me like they will be going to the dead pool in January………….this may force Scotty B. to press Beltre instead of holding him back………..That is a big tell
$44M payroll for 4 starters. That sounds so un-Cardinals-like.
Maybe its $41, still . . .
bb — Keep in mind that includes a Cy Young winner, a guy who’s come in 2nd and 3rd place for the CY the last two years, a solid ROY canididate who came in 3rd and a very solid #4 who fits perfectly into Duncan’s pitching to contact/ground ball strategy. Pretty good lineup for the money, acutally.
I agree HB, nice rotation. And at least some chance Lohse could be ok. If BDW is cheap, the rotation doesn’t reflect it.
Brian, looks like Westbrook’s boat didnt rise so much
CC, his agent needs to take a pay cut if thats the best he can do.
Spender MO !!
Studbrook loves it here. And who can blame him?
I remember when a certain poster expressed doubts about Westrbook back in July. He can look forward to two more years of the same!!!
Brian’s Uggla idea went down in flames as well, but it did make for stimulating conversation around here for a day or two.
Jumbo for President!
From a Matt Leach article on MLB.com…
“I didn’t want it to get to the point where I had the [possibility] of the Cardinals maybe finding somebody else and thinking that I didn’t really want to be there,” Westbrook said. “I knew I wanted to be a part of this team, and I was glad to get something done now. Now I can just not worry about it. I’m looking forward to a full season with the Cardinals.”
“In my mind, where I’m from, this deal is a lot of money,” Westbrook said. “To be able to get this type of money on this caliber of team, to me is a great thing. You can call it whatever you want to call it, but to me it’s a great opportunity to play on a great team with great teammates in front of great fans, and I’m happy to be a part of that.”
What happened to Duncan being worth every penny because he allows us to pick up pitcher’s cheap and he can turn them around?
I’m glad Mo signed Westbrook, but like RC said it is still the same team. The jury is still out.
RC is not a Cards fan and seems to post some thoughts with the intent to deflate those who are. I am not suggesting he is dishonest, but he still needs to be taken with a grain of salt. This is not easily done, however, because he also knows a lot about baseball and can seem authoritative.
Westbrook took about a $3MM/yr reduction from his last contract, signed after more good seasons and when younger, within a hotter FA market.
Its good to get Westbrook resolved early. This helps Mo focus on additional business. Plenty more to get done before March. No we did not need Uggla. If the Braves did, they have reason to be happy.
“Its still the same team.” Its still mid-November. There will be some more changes during the course of the next 2 to 3 months.
Last year, the cost of Penny and Westbrook was about $18.5MM. In 2011, their combined cost will be $8MM, so Mo has saved $10.5MM to be used for other investments.
I doubt Jake turned down higher offers. He said all the right things to endear himself with the fans.
If it is true the Cards clubhouse can be difficult for those who don’t fit in, its good to hire somebody who knows he does fit.
Jumbo, RC is just a bit sideways because the Braves already got their bat. Going to be a long winter now.
There are 30 ML Clubhouses. Can every player adore every team-mate, within every one of these 30 Cluhouses? Lets be realistic. The answer has to be No.
Hard to not be happy about this.
And, nutlaw, I am not sure how Westbrook is average or how this deal is too much money.
Both last year and his entire career sit in the real of a low 4 FIP. And he seems to be good for 200+ innings. Neither of those things are average.
Ted Lilly got 3/$33MM. Kuroda got 1/$12MM. Setting the market for moderately above average pitchers at $11-12MM AAV?
And Westbrook got 2/$17.5MM?
Yeah, I’m happy with this deal.
This is the first of Mo’s deals I have been thrilled about in a while. Well done! The mutual option and the no-trade makes the deal a bit clunky but I am not too worried about either in this case.
Baseball salaries have some seasonality. If you sign a player in October or November or early December, you are going to tend to pay him the going rate, given his statistical performance, during the performance period of his last contract. Westbrook is coming off a 3 year deal, injured the first year and rebounding the third.
It can get tricky in the case of a guy like Pineiro. Mo gave him two years in October 2007. Some thought he overpaid, but Pineiro stayed healthy and learned a better sinker and was good in 2009.
Come January-March, teams bargain shop, looking for players who are left-over, want to stay working, and will cut a better deal.
I agree with that, Jumbo…which is why Westbrook’s deal impresses me. I thought we’d have to go $10MM+ in AAV to land Westbrook this early after seeing the Lilly and Kuroda deals.
We ended up getting him, basically, for what I hoped for even before those deals were announced.
The only reason I can think Westbrook was at $8MM is because he lost a lot of innings to injury during his last 3 year deal. Lost performance early in his last contract must be a factor in calculating a fair new salary.
Jumbo wrote, “RC is not a Cards fan and seems to post some thoughts with the intent to deflate those who are. I am not suggesting he is dishonest, but he still needs to be taken with a grain of salt. This is not easily done, however, because he also knows a lot about baseball and can seem authoritative.”
Jumbo, you might not be somebody like “Rain Man” but you are rubbing right up against it. Save the lemmings Jumbo before they drink the kool aid.
Dishonest?
Taken with a grain of salt?
Not a cards fan?
Intent to deflate?
Can seem authoritative?
And people thing WC is nutty.
And you preach all of this from behind a fake name. Priceless.
stl is only a couple dumpster dives away from being the club that finished 2010. what’s left? 8mil?
the larussa blueprint……..
re-sign jake, 2/16.5mil, leave mcclellan/boggs in the pen (it worked so well in 2010)
replace SS brendan through trade, acquiring a scutaro type with a bum shoulder, *4mil difference (skip at 2B is etched in stone)
replace larue with an aging vet, *1mil, demote anderson.
replace felipe lopez with miles grit/9, *1 mil? demote descalso, bury tyler on the bench
replace loogy reyes with another aging vet *2mil?
genius, play ball.
Bling wrote, “Jumbo, RC is just a bit sideways because the Braves already got their bat. Going to be a long winter now.”
I believe the Braves needed a RH bat first off. I’m sure they would have preferred a RH OF bat but a swap of Uggla for Infante was a huge upgrade. You see the Braves had a similar problem as did the Cardinals……..a need for power. Uggla gives them the power and all they gave up was basically a Skip Schumaker type of player having a big year in Infante.
Bling I truely believe the only way the Cardinals could upgrade enough to make a difference would be to trade Colby. Whether I would like for that to happen or not is irrelevant to my thoughts on if it would be good for the cardinals or not. But I can tell you the Braves will not give away all of those young arms this year. They may move some of thim next off season but not this one.
Now there is no secret that I believe Colby would be a much more productive player if he did not play under TLR. But it doesn’t matter what I think so that too is irrelevant as it pertains to an Uggla trade. I know for a fact that Colby will not end up a Brave so there would never have been any hopes of that.
JUMBO ALERT JUMBO ALERT JUMBO ALERT
Cale Iorg is now OPSing ,881 vs. Kozma’s paltry .644. Iorg has 5 errors and Kozma has 4. What happened to our boy out showing the Tiger’s boy (who Easton pointed out was a much better bargain!)
Well BIP, I for one never expected for Mo to do much this offseason. Unfortunately I do believe there is a financial aspect to why many moves are made or not made. In other words, in my mind, there is no need to change much because the team DID have a winning record and drew more than 3 million fans. There is no need for radical change in personelle. The fans are happy and the team had a winning record. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
So most of the moves will just be to have the 2011 team resemble the 2010 team in many ways. This has been written before but you would hope for Freese to have a better year, Skip to have a better Year, Yadi as well and if that happens then you have most likely made up ground on the Reds. No need to change much in this division.
You would have to rank the Cards in the top 10 in the national league today after the Westbrook signing and they haven’t added anything new. My top 8 fwiw.
1. Phillies
2. Giants
3. Reds
4. Braves
5. Dodgers
6. Cardinals
7. Rockies
8. Padres
I am not sure we are behind the Dodgers at this point but I would agree with us being #5 right now.
It will be an interesting off-season.
RC– “the fans are happy” does not include me. 6th in the NL misses another postseason. jake’s signing is very reasonable, relative to the market. but, the lineup is still broken. trading colby, robs peter to pay paul, nothing gained. houdini couldn’t fix this lineup on the funds remaining of a 100mil budget.
the lineup:
albert, matt & colby (then do some yard work for two innings)
albert, matt & colby (then take a power nap for two innings)
albert, matt & colby (we almost made a comeback, but 4 RA was too much to overcome)
maybe we can pitch a shutout tomorrow
Well BIP, we’ll see what Mo does from here to March. But I see a Backup catcher, LHP, and a utility type of infielder or two as being all you may get without a big trade.
Hey but you need to just take my view with a grain of salt, not as being an authoritative outlook because I’m not trying to deflate your optimism by being dishonest about what I really believe.
If Freese is healthy, If Skip hits better, If Ryan hits better, If Craig/Jay improve, If Lohse comes back healthy………we might be a better team next year.
Not worried about Lohse now that we have four legitimate starters. PJ would be fine by me.
As for the other ‘ifs’….how many can we fix? Honestly? Skip seems the easiest to fix and yet we seem unwilling to even admit he is a problem. He would be priority one on my list if I were Mo.
I really don’t know what to do. Not many teams have the budget to “fix” four position player question marks.
Is it possible that we think Carpenter or even Cox might backfill Freese? Or is that Descalso’s job?
The more I think about it, though, the more I like Descalso’s potential value to the 2011 team.
You know who might fit…?
Bill Hall?
I’m betting you Easton that Mo picks up two of the Bill Hall, Tejada, Uribe, Hardy, Renteria types as insurance against massive failure on the infield.
Lets be honest, Freese, Skip, and Brendan(or fill in here with any off the list from above) on the infield aren’t gonna scare many teams to death.
It all goes back to where we started……there really isn’t much that can be done unless you are willing to make a blockbuster trade. The 2011 team is gonna look real close to exactly like the 2010 team imo. They may get rid of Brendan and replace him with Uribe, or Hardy but even in that scenario you lose defensively on a pitch to contact team so I can’t see the huge upside teamwise.
RC may not be a Cards fan but I sure as heck he believes he wants Colby to do well, and if he is going to play for the Cardinals, then RC has an incentive to want the best team the Cardinals can field out there. I don’t see RC’s comments as trying to deflate anyone as much as make us aware that that the Cardinals can’t rest on their laurels. And they can’t or 2011 will be another 2010. Facts is facts.
Jumbo, most of us who have been here a while know that RC likes to get a rise out of people. Accept that and enjoy the entertainment. If you can’t, then just ignore him. I don’t think you will hurt his feelings.
Once in a while we actually get some useful information out of him. 
True…but going into the season with, say, Bill Hall and Juan Uribe on the roster makes us look a hell of a lot different.
The problem, in my eyes, is our rhetoric about wanting to upgrade at short. I just don’t see any available everyday shortstops that I want. I’d be pretty confident in our roster if Hall backfilled Freese, Uribe played second, and both backfilled Brendan.
I think we could make that work.
Renteria, Hardy, Tejada….they don’t excite me much. Maybe depending on the cost.
And, of course, I still think Hudson would be a nice get.
But we probably have…what…$8-10MM left to spend?
With that in mind, screw a LOOGY and a back-up catcher. Give the job to Anderson and….wait….I got it….teach Skip to throw left-handed! Problem solved!!!
Agree, crdswmn.
RC–deflate my optimism? i’m one of the unhappy (as stated above).
Easton, I’m seeing the average ERA of AL starting pitchers in 2010 to be 4.27 and the average ERA of NL starting pitchers in 2010 to be 4.07. Westbrook has a career xFIP of 4.02 with a rating of 4.37 in 2007, 3.91 in 2008, and 4.09 in 2010. It looks pretty average. He has a career ERA+ of 101 (average is 100).
Given that he pitched 152 innings in ’07, 34.2 in ’08, none in ’09, and 202.2 in ’10, I don’t consider him a lock for 200 innings each season. Players tend to become more injury prone with age.
It feels like a Lohse signing, when the team shelled out big money after one good season or a Penny signing, when the team shelled out big money to an injury prone player who happened to have a good last month or two of the season after being traded following a bad first 2/3rds of the year.
Westbrook is average. If a mid-market team pays free agent values for average players, they run out of money very quickly. There are a lot of average pitchers out there to be found, many for below free agent prices. (McClellan is already here, for example.) Successful teams don’t blow their money on average players. They pay for the harder to find elite players and fill in with less expensive options.
We clearly disagree if you are comparing Westbrook to Lohse.
So the Dodgers were stupid, too, to spend $33MM on Lilly and $12MM on Kuroda?
And I sure as hell don’t think McClellan could give us 200 innings of a 4ish FIP.
714– as SP’s, do you see 7mil difference in jake and mclellan?
is the 7mil difference better allocated on jake, or another bat beyond what we will have opening day?
First of all, I’m not calling anyone stupid.
Secondly, the Dodgers have a larger payroll than the Cardinals by a bit.
Third, Lilly and Kuroda are better pitchers than Westbrook. A year by year ERA+ comparison:
Lilly: 121 (’07), 113 (’08), 144 (’09), 115 (’10).
Kuroda: 112 (’08), 106 (’09), 113 (’10).
Westbrook: 105 (’07), 138 (’08) – in 35 IP, 92 (’10).
Westbrook is average, Kuroda is a bit above average, Lilly is good (or has been later in his career, at least).
Kuroda and especially Lilly have also been less injured than Westbrook and have thrown more innings as a result.
McClellan has put up very nice numbers in the bullpen. It’s a shame to limit him to a smaller role. He has the repertoire to start.
Still disagree to an extent. Lilly and Westbrook are both 4.2 FIP pitchers…and I think Westbrook, after last year, is probably a better bet to throw 200 innings. Plus, Lilly is an extreme fly ball pitcher – which breaks any ties for me.
Kuroda is better but has never surpassed 200 innings in his three years in the bigs.
And I don’t want McClellan in the rotation. He loses stuff if working more than one inning or on back-to-back days. Having a lot of pitches doesn’t make you a starter if only one is above average, ever, out of the pen, on full rest. He’s not Wainwright – who showed two fully plus pitches out of the pen and two others with potential.
To me, McClellan is trade bait (Motte and Boggs too). Someone else can make him a starter if they want. If we need a homegrown starter, I am more confident in PJ.
McClellan trade bait? No way, this guy is in deeper than Skip as ticks go and you see how much love Skip gets. No way the Skips or McClellans are going anywhere Easton imo.
I didn’t say he would be Mo’s trade bait. I said he would be mine. Same with Skip.
I have been convinced, no matter how much it hurts, that Mo is not allowed, essentially, to run this team like a rational individual.
I don’t believe for a second that he makes some of the moves/choices he has (or has talked about) because he believes, as a GM, that they make the team better.
Like I have stated before, if you dig deep enough you will find there is a gerbil in a little metal wheel running his ass off trying to make this thing go.
But…I think Westbrook was a great first start and I think the deal was reasonable if not surprisingly so.
So…kudos to Mo on Round 1.
Next up…?
I concur, Westbrook was a great fit for this team. Tony’s teams are pitching strong and platoon ready…………..the good ones anyway. And The rotation appears to be solid and its not December yet. Great start for the cardinals and Mo.
But that is just another reason why allowing, if not wholly supporting, a terrible defensive middle infielder (while trying to jettison the potential GGer) makes absolutely zero sense.
A full season of Westbrook plus a defensive upgrade at second ALREADY makes us better than last year’s team.