It is big news when Cardinals outfielder Colby Rasmus buys a new house – simply because it is in St. Louis!
One of the major storylines of the 2010 St. Louis Cardinals season and carrying into the winter as well, has been the ongoing unhappiness of outfielder Colby Rasmus.
After his much-publicized trade request this past summer and despite reports of improving communications, rumors of other clubs making offers for him have popped up like mushrooms this off-season, even as the Cardinals state they have no plans to deal the talented youngster.
About two weeks ago, news of Rasmus selling his St. Louis-area residence was misinterpreted by some to be a clear signal that the player was preparing to be traded. The report also had Rasmus moving back home to Alabama. The reality was something else entirely. Instead, Colby was in the midst of finding a new residence, in the same vicinity, where a batting cage could be installed.
Here at The Cardinal Nation Blog, Colby’s father Tony, posting as “RCWarrior,” reported Friday evening that his son has located his new home in the St. Louis area, with room in the basement for a cage, and apparently has a deal in place to sell his old digs as well.
More importantly, the younger Rasmus is actively preparing for the 2011 season with the Cardinals. The centerfielder is currently on a hunting trip with a number of Cardinals reportedly including Mark McGwire and has time scheduled later this month to work on his swing under the tutelage of the soon-to-be second-year hitting coach.
Whether any of this will dull the trade rumors remains to be seen, but Cardinals fans wanting to see Rasmus stay put can at least take away some positives from the news.
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Maybe the Cards have decided that replacing the pop of both Luddy and Colby just can’t be done on budget.
On another note, here is a story about the great job Bud thinks Alderson did in the Dominican, in particular reducing the signing bonuses.
“Selig and other high-ranking baseball officials were extremely pleased with the progress that Alderson made over his six months as the head baseball official in charge of Latin America.
In his six months in the post, Alderson concentrated much of his efforts on the Dominican Republic, . . . . oversight also significantly pushed down the signing bonuses for the country’s top prospects.”
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/12/alderson-hands-off-one-job/?ref=baseball
The expanded oversight had a dramatic effect on the market for Dominican players, helping to identify those who were using steroids or lying about their ages. The oversight also significantly pushed down the signing bonuses for the country’s top prospects.
Alderson also developed a new education program that he believed would give an incentive to the trainers to send their players to school. But he did not have the time to fully implement that program.
Yeah!!!!!!!!! by the time they culled all the roids and finally figured out how many 12yr old kids were actually 17………….signing bonuses mysteriously went down went down…………….
Are those your thoughts Westie or are they from the article? Can’t even muster up quotations marks let alone note that what you wrote is from the article? The only way I knew was that there were no ……….. in the writing.
I guess they can push down the signing bonuses now because the economy is bad and they don’t have as much money they need to launder through the D.R.
Since 30 teams were falling over themselves looking for Dominican players, the buscones invented super-prospects. They invented new names to pass off 19 year olds as 15 and pumped kids full of muscle helpers.
MLB has countered some of this shennigans with more testing and investigation. This is catching a lot of fraud and deflating bonuses by preventing synthesis of super-prospects.
Of the 5 highest bonus kids the Cards have signed, Wagner Mateo was found to have an injured eye and his contract revoked. A pitcher also had his bonus revoked. A third guy Carlos Matias has had his surname corrected and is now acknowledged to be 19 (not 17). The other two bonus babies, Delacruz and Valera, have not been playing great so far. If a lot of lads have been synthesized into apparent uber-prospects, if MLB corrects ages and prevents PEDs, then many are less inspiring of bonuses.
i wonder if walt jocketty is getting a good chuckle out of the colby rasmus trade rumors? good luck w/that?
stl has traded what youth/affordable talent, since the holliday trade 16 months ago? folli and david carpenter? others?
looking forward to colby continuing to wear the birds on the bat.
Lets give Walt credit. Walt was smart enough to know TLR was his manager and his manager worked better with the more experienced player. Walt made the trades TLR wanted in order to help Tony use his managerial strengths. Those two worked good together. Mo and TLR have yet to gel like Walt and TLR did.
Walt in his current situation does not have to trade away the Reds youth in order to get the more experienced player. Dusty seems more than capable of adapting to using a team full of young players. Everyone can’t do that. TLR doesn’t seem to be comfortable with a shit pot full of kids. There is more teaching and patience involved with the younger player. That doesn’t appear to be TLR’s strong suit.
the organizational direction of BD drove walt out, and is the same reason Mo doesn’t give tony everything he asks for. it’s now easier to trade for a ludwick than a rasmus, when dealing with stl.
walt and tony worked well together during the period BD allowed walt to be the trader of youthful talent. now, colby fits the organizational direction better than tony. it’s a struggle of attrition, that tony will eventually step away from.
So you are optimistic BIP with Tony at the helm with this new philosophy? I am interested to see if its 2009/10 all over again in 2011. I do believe it will be fun to watch and see if TLR can do anything different than he has been doing.
http://www.stltoday.com/business/article_4d97cacd-2449-53fd-8f68-18c15c47ca5e.html
I wonder what MLB/Fox has in mind for a replacement for Bud? It is a provocative move, pricing them out……………….what changed since the agreement?…………elections maybe? Big oil is on the move too.
RC–i’m optimistic that the direction BD has chosen is correct for the long term health of the org, in that it mirrors mlb’s direction of valuing affordable talent to surround a core of expensive veterans. i believe BD to be at the helm, not tony.
BD has shown he will grant tony and dave their wishes of trying to acquire westbrook / oswalt types, when they deem that as the teams needs, but not at the expense of miller / rasmus types. my *guess* is BD will bend to the field management teams wishes, and make “B” types available (craig / anderson / lynn / JJ / boggs) but not “A’s”.
tony’s best bet for acquiring vets, are as FA’s, right now. there are enough available currently on the market, that i don’t see a repeat of 2010 as necessary. i wish dave would push for mcclellan to the rotation, so the funds could be spent on position player vets. it just might be easier to get funds from BD for FA’s easier, than top talent / affordable trade chips.
The movements surrounding Beltre………..a Boras client, will be one of the most prominent indicators of AP’s market status……………..BD has already said that nothing will be discussed until after Xmas…………. a long holdout for Boston? Will Boras fall into a dead pool with Beltre? Or is it AP that is left with a diminished market? NY and Texas threatening to make Lee happy. MLB running an extortion attempt against Bud………..Lite?
Coming off his WS MVP award, Edgar Renteria has been making noises about wanting to return to the Cards or Marlins. Edgar must love not having fun. I respect that about him.
Bip…………… if all the Cardinals attain this yea,r is an AP extension…………..they will need a hot streak like our final week this year, to move on 3rd place. From where I sit.
If they intended to “Win”………..they would of already offered Westbrook an incentive laden 3/24 deal. They would have made Freeze the backup and brought in a hitter………and have been aggressively pursuing a lefty reliever……………………. and took Renteria as the Felipe Lopez player on a 1yr deal with an option…………….. it could be done this week………………. they won’t. It isn’t their intention. It might cost them 30% less in 6 weeks……….but that is a 1/10 shot
If Lozano said……….we’ll take 5/150 right now……………… (sell the record run 5yrs later assuming all the risks)………………that 10yr total could be 300+ million dollars……………….
That takes you around the total years precedent, keeps the number manageable as a market example………….. hell………5 million per differed for 10 yrs………….everybody runs with that…………………..right?…………Wrong……….he doesn’t offer that……..because BD finds a way to nix it……………there is a play (coming) going on……….. Lozano left BHS because he was going to take it on………………… Cardinal baseball is secondary to other preparations for this momentous event……………………….. All indicators point to this……….including the Tony/Dave contract posturing………….. Everybody in the game is watching, playing off of this………….the only sucker in this game is the ” Cardinal Nation “………..because they think that if DeWitt has lost or given away AP………. he will compensate by spending lavishly….(in January?) to win back their loyalty.
He knows his sucker………..the one constant here is the stupidity of the naive……….his political posture has shown that again and again………………… Tony has prepared to do battle…….as the players disappear to competing teams…………he will be vocal this time………………… this all being apparent…………suggests a 0 cost distraction…….a trade maybe……..now what do we have to work with?
If the plan were to replace Skip, Edgar would be a good choice. An end of career vet with credentials and a fat bank account wouldn’t be bothered by the kind of treatment Colby got.
Jumbo wrote, “Edgar must love not having fun. I respect that about him.”
ER knows TLR is the only manager that will play him any amount of time in 2011. Edgar knows that at his age and skill level, TLR is his only play. Its TLR or retirement.
The message hidden in these “musings”????????? MLB tries a power play against Busch, going around an agreement hammered out over months of negotiations………… who is the competition? Couldn’t this cost FOX tens of millions of dollars in advertising revenue? Isn’t FOX now MLB anyway? Or doesn’t it matter? Who owns the stock here? Busch is sold to the Europeans, and a few years later, they’re being leveraged for their right to do business here………….????
Don’t think that AP might not be placed in Boston…….for business and marketing reasons.
Good market strategy????????…………. Projected market for AP 240 to 280………. That will come out of Lozano’s mouth at some point………….. BD 30 to 50 million lower….with differed…….
Possible plays for BD……….I’m not budging……….AP seems to want a trade…..all MLB teams….what will ye give me for this fine player? This of course would be a public pillorying of AP…….all offers predicated on 1yr plus extension…..for the right to pay him his market value……… who wants some of that? What do you think might be offered? Lozano will try and avoid that at all costs………… he knows the foundation for AP’s value is here…………if he is disrespected here, what is his value? ????????
This will be an issue for AP…………he doesn’t want Boston fans booing him after a jog to first, or trying to turn a single into a double, or running through a stop sign for glory. He likes Tony, and the Cardinal fans love him the way he likes to be………….
This divides AP/Lozano………..BD’s trademark strategy……….. BD having this idea, might not see an incentive to spend much this winter………..knowing that he will likely have a bundle of excuses for missing the market…………………. Tony knows this. He has prepared the playing field. He will show BD’s disinterest in baseball till he is fired………..he is prepared…………
Summation of this rambling………………. FOX doesn’t give a — about money. This is a power play…………… BD doesn’t give a — about money……….Obama isn’t going to be around for 8yrs now……………. this is about power, and leverage, and territory…………..about carrying out a business plan as you told your cronies you would/could………………….
RC, maybe you aim to be amusing and to discourage Cards fans. You have said you are not one. This seems honest.
In the case of Renteria, you disrespect not only LaRussa, but Renteria. Edgar had injuries in 2010, but as he showed in the World Series, when fit to play, he has something in the tank, as Cliff Lee appreciates.
It’s absurd to suggest Renteria can only get a job with the Cards. He will probably get a better offer somewhere else.
For those who happen to be Cards fans, however, its good to hear Edgar has checked in with Tony. The deeper the pool of SSes, the more choices for Mo to consider.
I doubt Renteria is a 150 game player. He could play 100, giving Ryan or Greene 60 starts.
Bling, you wanted to send Colby down to Memphis in mid-season. You were infuriated by his play. Its odd you are now weepy about how he got “treated.”
WC, how many free agents have signed anywhere yet?
Jumbo, Renteria was terrible all but at the very end last year. The fact he was considering retirement tells you he didn’t feel he had much to offer in the way of play for pay in 2011. If you believe Edgar was an excellent player last year you may have lost your touch at evaluating players.
Discourage cardinals fans? By saying Edgar knows that TLR is the master of using the elderly player and that playing for TLR is his best bet for playing a lot in 2011. And to boot TLR like Edgar….My bet is he does end up in St. Louis and may get 400 AB’s. Uribe may also end up in St. Louis. These two players are not good but great fits for TLR’s style,
No other manager has the skill of TLR in using a player at the point in his career that Edgar has reached. Edgar is a good fit.
This is actually the type of player I have advocated that Mo should sign in order to give TLR the weapons with which to work his managerial mojo.
Cardinals fans should be encouraged by the signing of a Renteria or a Uribe. Those two guys will flourish under TLR.
But you ultimately act as though Cardinals fans are basically dummies who can’t think for themselves.
Few………………… they are all waiting for the pressure to build………prices go down because the pressure is on the player/agent……………….. this happened two years ago when Boras had control. He elongated the whole process because he had all the studs………….. owners might try the same play seeing how it worked……………….AP being the excuse…………Boras having control of Bostons 3rd baseman………….. Texas and NY could hold up the Lee signing for ever……..if it was to theie advantage………….Fox money at work again……………
But Jumbo, you shouldn’t feel the need to save TLR or anyone for that matter from anyone’s opinion. I respect the guy for all that he accomplished and acknowledge that he works with some types of players better than others. But you get down right pornographic in your adulation at times. Its enough to make me uncomfortable.
I agree completely RC. They will want to be payed though………that’s the point. They will make at least 5 somewhere……………. I like Uribe at third………….. but that likely sets back BD’s plan……whatever it is.
These post season threads are so much fun.
“Renteria was terrible all but at the end of the year.”
Actually, Renteria has a 706 OPS during the regular season, fine for SS. He was not “terrible.”
“The fact he was considering retirement tells you he did not feel like he had much to offer.”
Renteria was out about 2 months, with two trips to the DL. Injuries will make someone consider retirement.
He must have rehabbed and felt better by the World Series. Now Edgar’s spirits are lifted and he hopeful he can continue playing next season. Go Edgar!
“Its enough to make me uncomfortable.”
Wait, don’t leave now. I am still negotiating with the White Sox about the swap for Ortega’s dad.
A difficult consideration to “remember” Brian, is that a collusion settlement was reached, based on secret “mutual recognition’ of the manipulation of free market variables……………. the pressure that builds on teams to be competitive by making moves…………………..is easily sold for control with mutual agreements and understandings……….collisions………. when an agent does it….to other agents………..as was done……….that’s supposed to be the part of the business.
Is holding up the market thought to be good for players? Some of them………… Is it good for owners? Some of them………….. baseball teams get what they need and play ball. How many revenues sharing profiteers are flourishing right now???????? They know their not buying. And there numbers are increasing. BD calling for non pressure talks after Christmas has a huge effect on this market………………will he take advantage of that? to our competitive benefit? Its his play…..
Consider this…………..if Tony doesn’t think Skip beats out Kennedy………….what does Skip and Ryan do with Edgar on their back?……………..this is just talk…………BD has a plan……….it may or may not contain AP………… or there are at least condition that must be met……..baseball has nothing to do with it.
Don’t pinch the alter boys RC……….they’re cracking down.
Jumbo, I believe Edgar will be a successful addition to the cardinals. You are arguing for the sake of arguing. I like Edgar under TLR’s management. He will be a nice pickup.
Like I said, I like both Renteria and Uribe. I believe the cards will have improved greatly if both are signed.
Who is Ortega? and who is his dad?
I love it on the Cardinalsnation blog. I wouldn’t consider posting anywhere else. And I actually haven’t. If Colby is traded that will end my bull shitting on these things.
Who is Ortega’s dad?????????????? Your Jeremiah Johnson RC………….. and Jumbo has found an eagle feather. You figure it out………you can’t even agree with his with being bitten.
Westie what is your source that says BD wont engage until after Christmas? Struass (who you like to quote when it suits your agenda) says the Cards plan to engage before Christmas.
Lozano has a plan too. His plan and BD’s may jive or they may not. But my guess is it will be Lozano’s plan that is executed in the end. He holds the Cards.
I have no agenda fellow poster………………….. I could care less what AP does………I do deplore losing for profit…………..It has happens 3 years running in my experience…………If there is a 10yr marketing program for him, it will have nothing to do with baseball……….if you owned him, would he shut up about losing………..doubt it………..10yrs of pressure to spend more money………..???? BD has a plan…………..baseball has nothing to do with it……..
Ok. let’s get either Renteria or Uribe for 2B and move Skip to right field. I would rather have Orlando Hudson , but anything to get Skip off of 2B. My fantasy move would be to package up a trade for Dan Uggla .
Ok, no agenda – but what is your source? Or purely speculating?
I would love to see Uggla’s bat in the cardinals lineup for one year.
Me too RC. In my fantasy, we give the Marlins Jon Jay, Boggs or Motte and maybe throw in Salas since our bullpen is too righty heavy. The Marlins are looking for relievers and if we put Skip in RF we have no use for two lefties there so Jay is expendable. We would still need to find a lefty for the bull pen. Let’s face it, we are stuck with Skip and to make TLR happy we have to put him somewhere. All of this is fantasy of course since money would dictate otherwise.
turned down 48 RC……………..he wants out of Florida…………
Crd…………….the Marlins are a professional farm system………..they don’t take throw away’s. They take blue chip players in exchange for the “talent” taking all the money that’s given to them by revenue sharing. Uggla turning down 10 plus a year………he has ambition. If you tried to trade AP for Ugglla……….they trade AP that same day………..attach a no trade and they would just laugh at you.
Who said anything about trading AP for Uggla? The Marlins want relievers. We give them Boggs or Motte and if they don’t need Jay they could use him in a three way for another player. Boggs, Motte and Jay are all young players with potential, they are not throwaways.
Carlos Quentin’s dad is my trade target, RCW for Quentin’s dad, even up. RCW said Quentin’s dad is dead. If so, I will take one live uncle or a headstone.
The Marlins traded Maybin today for a couple of relievers.
The Marlins are going to trade Uggla. What do they want for him? I doubt we have anything they want that we are willing to give up for a one year bat, but I can still fantasize.
I very well may be gone after this winter Jumbo, you will miss me when I’m gone.
Re: The idea that Walt Jocketty traded away young talent for veterans to appease TLR… I’m not so sure if that is truth or myth. Walt traded some young players, whether they were talented prospects or not is best determined by looking at the facts. Here are all Walt’s trades, by year. The format is Cardinal player(s) traded to TEAM for player(s) acquired.
1994 — Aldo Pecorelli to Braves for Ramon Ceraballo; Luis Alicea to Red Sox for Jeff McNeely & Nate Michey.
1995 — Kirk Bullinger, Brian Eversgerd & Da Rand Stovall to Expos for Ken Hill; Todd Zeile to Cubs for Francisco Morales, Paul Torres & Mike Morgan; John Hayban to Angels for Mark Sweeny; Ken Hill to Indians for Pepe McNeal, David Bell & Rick Heiserman; Anton French to Braves for Jose Oliva; Marc Ronan to Brewers for Mike Stefanski; Andre King to Reds for Luiz Ordaz & Miguel Mejia (from KC, a 3-way deal); Doug Creek, Rich DeLucia & Allen Watson to Giants for Royce Clayton & Chris Wimmer.
1996 — Bret Wagner, Allen Battle, Carl Dale & Jay Witasick to A’s for Todd Stottlemeyer; Bernard Gilkey to Mets for Yudith Orozio, Erik Hiljis & Erick Ludwick; Steve Montgomery to A’s for Dennis Eckersley; Miguel Inzunza & Tom Urbani to Tigers for Micah Franklin & Brian Maxcy; Pat Borders to Angels for Ben Van Ryan; Cory Bailey to Rangers for David Chavarria; Rene Arocha to Giants for Tom Lampkin.
1997 — Keith Johns to Brewers for Scott Pace; Rich Batchelor, Danny Jackson & Mark Sweeney to Padres for Scott Livingstone, Phil Plantier & Fernando Valenzuela; Eric Ludwick, TJ Matthews & Blake Stein to Oakland for Big Mac; Dmitri Young to Reds for Jeff Brantley.
1998 — Rigo Beltran to Mets for Juan Acevedo; Craig Shipley to Angels for Chip Hale; Wayne Kirby to Mets for Shawn Gilbert; Royce Clayton & Todd Stottlemeyer to Rangers for Darren Oliver, Fernando Tatis & Mark Little; Jeff Brantley, Ron Gant & Cliff Politte to Phililes for Ricky Bottalico & Garrett Stephenson; Armando Almaza, Braden Looper & Pablo Ozuna to Marlins for Edgar Renteria; Mark Petkovsek to Angels for Mark Garrick.
1999 — Sean Lowe to White Sox for John Ambrose; John Frascatore to DBacks for Clint Sodowsky; Shawn Dustin to Mets for Craig Paquette; Kent Mercker to Red Sox for David Benham & Mike Matthews; Albert Castillo, Matt DeWitt & Lance Painter to Blue Jays for Pat Hentgen & Paul Spoljoric; Manny Aybar, Brent Butler, Rich Croushore & Jose Jimenez to Rockies for Luther Hackman, Darryl Kile & Dave Veres; Juan Acevedo, Eliezer Alfonzo & Matt Parker to Brewers for Fernando Vina; Luis Ordoz to DBacks for Dante Powell.
2000 — Joe McEwing to Mets for Jesse Orosco; Kent Bottenfield & Adam Kennedy to Angels for Jimmy Edmonds; Mark Nussbeck & Chris Richard to Orioles for Mike Timlin; Jack Wilson to Pirates for Jason Christiansen; Jose Leon to Orioles for Will Clark; Ben Johnson & Heathcliff Slocum to Padres for Nate Tebbs & Carlos Hernandez; Britt Reames & Fernando Tatis to Expos for Dustin Hermanson & Steve Kline.
2001 — Larry Sutton to Twins for Hanley Frias; Jason Christiansen to Giants for Kevin Joseph; Ray Lankford to Padres for Woody Williams; Dustin Hermanson to Red Sox for Luis Garcia, Rich Asodorian & Dustin Brisson.
(continued in another post…)
2002 — Seth Davidson to Twins for Warren Morris; Placido Polanco, Mike Timlin & Bud Smith to Phillies for Scott Rolen and Doug Nickel; Neil Simoneaux to Indians for Nerio Rodriguez; Luis Garcia and Coco Crisp to Cleveland for Chuck Finley; Chris Norris & Mike Matthews to Brewers for Jamey Wright; Luther Hackman & Mike Woodnicki to Padres for Brett Tomko; Jared Blasdell & Jason Karnuth to Cubs for Jeff Fassero.
2003 — Rick Asdoorian to Rangers for Esteban Yan; Justin Pope & Ben Julianel to Yankees for Sterling Hitchcock; Mike Crudale & John Novinsky to Brewers for Mike DeJean; Tino Martinez to Rays for John Paul Davis & Evan Rust; Eli Marrero & JD Drew to Atlanta for Jason Marquis; Ray King & Adam Wainwright.
2004 — Kerry Robinson to Padres for Brian Hunter; Matt Duff to Red Sox for Tony Womack; Wilson Delgado to Mets for Roger Cedeno; Joe Horgan to Expos for Benji DeQuin; Jason Burch, Luis Martinez & Chris Narveson to Rockies for Larry Walker; Dan Haren, Kiko Calero & Daric Barton to A’s for Mark Mulder.
2005 — Ray King to Rockies for Larry Bigbie & Aaron Miles; Javier Cordova to Indians for John Rodriquez; Mike Meyers to Red Sox for Carlos De La Cruz & Kevin Ool.
2006 — Rich Scalamandre to Braves for Jorge Sosa; Terry Evans to Angels for Jeff Weaver; Hector Luna to Indians for Ronnie Belliard.
2007 — Chris Lambert to Tigers for Mike Maroth; Sean Danielson to Red Sox for Joel Pineiro; PTBNL to Phillies for Russell Branyan.
Reviewing this list, focusing on players traded away, I tried to identify young players that Walt dealt that who were 25 or less at the time and later amounted to a hill of beans. I identified 9 such players in 14 years of trades. Only three of the nine were in the minor leagues when traded. Read as player (age at trade/level at trade)… Jack Wilson (22/ AA), Coco Crisp (22/AA), and Daric Barton (18/A).
The other six all had some MLB experience. Read as player (age at trade/MLB seasons w/Cards at trade): Dmitri Young (23/2), Braden Looper (23/1), Adam Kennedy (23/1), Fernando Tatis (25/3), Chris Narveson (24/1), and Dan Haren (23/2). Others I looked at who were over 25 but less than 30 included: Todd Zeile (29/7), Bernard Gilkey (28/6), Mark Sweeny (27/3), Placido Polanco (26/5), Eli Marrero (29/7), JD Drew (27/6), Kiko Calero (29/2) and Hector Luna (26/3).
Compare that with the significant talent we got in return… it’s astounding… Mark Sweeney, David Bell, Royce Clayton, Todd Stottlemeyer, Dennis Eckersley, Big Mac, Fernando Tatis, Garret Stephenson, Edgar Renteria, Daryl Kile, Dave Veres, Fernando Vina, Jimmy Edmonds, Mike Timlin, Will Clark, Steve Kline, Woody Williams, Scott Rolen, Jason Marquis, Ray King, Adam Wainwright, Tony Womack, Larry Walker, Mark Mulder, Aaron Miles, Jeff Weaver, Ronnie Belliard, and Joel Pineiro.
Interesting too, to note that both Kennedy and Looper eventually returned to play with the Cards.
What do you think? Did Walt trade away tons of young talent that became solid performers in MLB? I don’t think so.
I haven’t followed the Cardinals but my interaction with Cardinal scouts in 2005 was where I got that bit of information. I had more than 3 Scouts tell me that they wanted to draft Colby with their first pick, that he would play in the Big Leagues, and that he would most likely reach the Big Leagues with another team because Walt traded away prospects because Tony preferred veteran players. Thats almost a direct quote.
WAR EAGLE by the way.
What the scouts told RCW is not unreasonable. We traded Brad Looper, Jack Wilson, Coco Crisp, Dan Haren, Chris Perez, Brett Wallace, in these instances younger players for more established ones.
Walt also unloaded J D Drew for Wainwright, evening up with the Haren mistake. The Braves have seemed more given to trading prospects. Its hurt them through the years.
The Braves do an excellent job of drafting young arms. Their system is loaded with arms today. Incredible 94+ guys.
Jumbo — Chris Perez and Brett Wallace were part of Mozeliak deals.
There was some speculation that Tony would insist on eliminating the Tony TV Q&A as part of a new deal. Anybody heard anything about that?
Appreciate the effort HB, I’d say your point about Walt is solid. I’d bet he is up to his old tricks in Cincy.
TLR is a smart man. He has to know that the way he acts on that post game show looks bad. No other manager acts as mad and smart A$$ as he does on that thing. It looks like comedy. Heck we pay extra just to get the post game show on Direct TV because it is so funny.
He really is not that guy he becomes on those post game fiascos. I don’t know why he allows himself to look like that. But it is funny stuff.
Pretty sure all managers have post-game meetings with the press, though StL’s are more… interesting. At this point of his career, why would TLR care about making a change? He is what he is and seems extremely comfortable with that.
Did the speculation originate from a knowledgeable source?
I believe TLR was interviewed by that Cat guy and he said that he was going to try to be more lovable during his post game interviews.
Also said something like his wife said he looked bad doing them.
RC, I will only believe a change when I see it.
As you note, TLR is a smart man, but he is also very emotional. He has never handled losses well. I have to disagree with you on one point. He is in fact that man you see on TV. It is not an act. It is so bad that his wife doesn’t bother with a phone call on nights when there was a loss because TLR is not in the state of mind to talk.
That is just the way he is. Not defending him. Just explaining as I’ve been there and witnessed it many times.
Brian, I am pretty sure I had heard it on radio early on, maybe even before the season ended, but I can’t recall the source or context. I believe the crux was that Tony didn’t want to have microphones in his face 5 or 10 minutes after a loss. Not entirely unreasonable.
RC, I can see where you’d pay to see Tony make an ass of himself, as for me, I decided if they can’t provide reasonable audio, I’m not watching their commercials, so I pass.
I also wanted to mention that I’m scratching my head over the increased role of Horton on the telecasts, 50 games as play-by-play guy. I guess he’s not on tape anywhere saying anything negative.
bb, I am pretty sure that MLB requires all managers to meet with the press following each game. It goes with the territory. FS Midwest’s deal is an exclusive to televise it live, I believe.
Dudes a competitor. Hates to lose.
Jumbo, I was in favor of sending out both Colby and Brendan, but the latter was out of options. No sense paying $400K to guys who act like the’ve never seen a baseball. The pay cut would have done them good.
Weepy? Hardly that, I’d make him run a lap around the whole field, flat out, before returning to the dugout every time he Ks, and I don’t feel sorry that he had a hard time with the ‘treatment’. But that’s not to say I don’t think it hurt the team and still does. We know what happens when Mo pushes a young guy in and pushes a Tony guy out, so Mo may try to avoid that by going with an Edgar type if he replaces Skippy.
RC I hope you don’t leave. You’re perspective is both insightful and entertaining. We all have differering opinions that are not to everyone’s taste, but if we didn’t I would have left long ago.
If I believe anything about TLR it is that he doesn’t like to lose. But my sense has always been that his ego prevents him from seeing how much of the losing is his fault. You can’t build a championship team on aging vets. If he can’t accept this, then he is harming the organization, the team, the fans, and yes, himself.
RC, I agree with a lot of what you say about Tony, he is a competitor. I don’t think he’s especially great though. Most of the time does about what you’d expect with the talent he’s got and the competition he’s facing.
But he manages by the book, his book, by the numbers and the probabilities, and young guys just don’t have a book yet that’s worth anything. So he can’t manage them the way he manages. And when you have a Brendan who is not only too young to have a book, but massively unreliable and unpredictable, Tony has no comfort level at all sending him out there.
But that does not excuse Tony’s contemptable public trashing of Brendan. BR was comlpetely unreliable at the plate and in the field the first half, yet the team was neck and neck for the lead. He settled in defensively and stood on his head out there the second half, yet the team folded and dropped out of the race. So any suggestion that replacing him would be part of solving the problem last year is pathetic. The problem was a failure of effective leadership either in the dugout or on the field or both. I can see where it would not be practical to admit that for public consumption, but there is no excuse for putting the blame on somebody who had little to do with it. Especially someone not in a position to defend himself effectively.
Amen BB.
crdswmn, if Colby and RC do move on, we can find out where RC is posting and infiltrate. You could be brvswmn.
I would have to be more covert than that BB. But it sounds like something I am up for.
How does tomahawkchopboy sound?
Well, that’s a little better.
Bling you are a smart guy and one of the more even headed folks that posts here. You can believe what you will but I would never post on another teams site. Never. I never have. I never will. This was a one time deal.
By the way, Excellent post up above. I too am not a fan of throwing one of your players under the bus.
Brian,
Any possibility someone from the FO reads this blog?
I sure hope so or I really have been wasting my time….
Me too.
RC, I can understand the need to put potential destination orgs at ease. Nobody wants to go out and get a headache. I know of no reason to doubt your word about it, so hopefully it would not be a factor. I also hope you and Colby will be around long after Tony rides into the sunset and Albert in his red jacket is getting ridden arount the field in the cart.
Bling I think I’ll tell you one day what all this stuff is about. You will be amazed.
If you tell BB you will have to tell me too.
Careful RC, you’ll make it sound like a Westie conspiracy.
There is always the possibility that TLR is trying to motivate Brendan Ryan by publically pointing out his faults, bb. Maybe he feels that this is the only way to get through to him.
Interesting Strauss piece in the PD this morning, previewing this week’s winter meetings in Florida.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_f4340e12-78ca-5a08-8744-22c627598ebc.html
If folks thought TLR’s radio comments about Brendan the other day constituted ‘throwing him under the bus’, then Mozeliak’s quotes in this article make him the bus driver… one who is running the bus alternately forward and backward over young Ryan.
Skip detractors will hate this article… good stuff about Colby too.
Souds like the FO feels replacing Ryan and his problems is easier than replacing Skip.Reads like Ryan can`t separate his offensive struggles and his whole game suffers.Looks like Cards have decided which way to go.Doesn`t sound promising about Westbrook either to me.
Replacing Skip is easier – it is called Descalso! Of course the availability of Descalso may be why Mo is less worried about upgrading 2B.
No conspiracy CC. Its all quite funny. No deep thought involved.
Nut I would say motivation would not be a strength of TLR’s.
N doubt HBT, When TLR came out last week and said what he said about Brendan, Brendan was on the way out. And I believe everybody knows if Skip is on the team he will be starting somewhere.
Nutlaw’s idea the Cards are trying to motivate Ryan may be right. Its hard to acquire a SS. For 2008, Mo had to sign Cesar Izturis. For 2009, he landed Khalil Greene, who turned out to be nutso. Its one thing to want a SS, its another thing to find one you like.
Among free agents, it will be easier to fill gaps like backup catcher, LOOGY, and RF.
Mo acknowledges that adding depth at 3B may be a “utility” guy. The Cards are not going to pay Beltre and most of the other choices are unexciting. One year of Edgar Renteria might fit as depth for 3B and SS.
The Cards are in a strong position as regards Rasmus. They do not have to trade him. But if another team makes a generous offer that includes an up and coming SS, 3B, and/or starting pitcher, they can consider it.
This may be the week the Cards add to the 40 man roster to set it before the Rule 5 draft. Last year, they elevated 8 guys on November 18.
Last year, Mo uttered a comment about signing “low hanging fruit.” By this he meant, signing first guys who are ready to sign, like Jason LaRue, while Matt Holliday/Boras played hard to get. There is a good chance the first free agent recruit will again be backup catcher, because Mo likes to get things done.
Uribe news.
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/3466816877764608
Uribe offers more power and a poor OBP and average to below average defense.He made 3.5 million in 2010.Versatile player.
Descalso was mentioned earlier in regards to 2B.Anyone consider that Descalso could be Schumakers late inning defensive replacement.The problem is what do you do with Tyler greene……………..i read he`s out of options.
Bw52, I don’t know where you are reading about Greene’s option status, but that information is incorrect.
Jumbo, while it is true the Cards added eight players to the 40-man last year at this time, they had 14 openings on the roster to deal with. Currently, they have just eight available spots for both protection of players and free agent signings. Rushing to sign a back up catcher as you suggest would use one.
On a related topic, my annual Rule 5 protection projections article will run on Monday morning for The Cardinal Nation subscribers.
Descalso can’t be Skip’s late inning replacement. It would expose Skip’s defense and Descalso might well outhit him as well.
Brian thanksfor the headsup.I read that elsewhere and thought it was right.
Good to here Greene can be optioned without losing him.
I found it highly unusual that Descalso did not see one inning of play at second base in September.
Well it appears Mo is TLR’s lapdog. Skip remaining at second and Ryan becoming the sacrificial lamb. That sounds about right. No surprise to me as I thought all along Mo’s balls had withered and died.
Brendan will be better off though. He is an amazing shortstop and will probably become the second coming of Ozzie Smith, just not with the Cardinals. I look forward to watching his career.
Now it is just a matter of seeing which old fart Mo gets to replace Brendan.
Crdswmn -the second coming of Ozzie Smith?P Dream on .Your anti-LaRussa bias is showing in your fantasy world
If the comments to the PD article are any indication this move will not be popular. Again, keeping Skip at 2B plus downgrading defense at SS is like putting a suicide bomber on the Titantic. I agree with some of the posters on the PD; we will be lucky to finish 3rd in the Central next year. And of course there will be no Albert after next year as well. Fun times ahead for Cardinals fans.
Brian-do you think that maybe the Cards know what Descalso can do at 2B and want to see his versatility.You know that`s a possibility and the fact that Feliz was playing so poorly why not giove Descakso some time at 3B.
Crdswmn-its a few months away from Spring training and we all have no way of knowing who will and won`t be with the team in ST,If you think the Cards will be lucky to finish 3rd then find something else to take up your time.
BW–Why is it that TLR lovers need to resort to hateful remarks against people that disagree with them? I dislike TLR but I have never denigrated anyone who is a fan. I just denigrate TLR who I think is fair game. I on the other hand have done nothing to you except express opinions you don’t like.
I may have used a little hyperbole to make my point, granted. But the idea is the same. BR is one of the best defensive SS’s in the game and I believe he will blossom offensively somewhere where he is appreciated and I look forward to seeing that happen. I don’t look forward to more seasons under TLR, though I will continue to watch because I am a fan and love the Cardinals and the game of baseball. I love my world thank you.
Ref #93. Sure, Bw52, there are always multiple possible spins on any item. Why didn’t they have Descalso play 3B in Memphis first? Why have him change positions upon his arrival in the majors? The transition has to be tough enough. Why add to it when better preparation was possible?
Today’s Strauss is just a yearly formality…………before tomorrows meetings begin………..Mo is simple setting prices……………. encouraging inquiry’s………..
Some effort was made to keep Colby’s price elevated…………. Skip, who has only a negative value, isn’t for sale of course…………..and a gold glove shortstop…………ready to move………….
Sound like a used car lot……………it is…………….. did I see an advertisement for a Reyes/Beltran ..Rasmus/Ryan…….you eat enough of those contracts and we’ll bargain model on display,,,,,,with the big white walls…………just sitting there……………………some home boys to wave in AP face…………??????????…………………….
Read it closely because Gordon took that last turn at delivering a position leak………Joe is up today…………its just business…………the decisions have already been made………..we’re just talking about returns.
Descalso……………. would be thought to be a negative invitation or signal toward AP…….he isn’t even a consideration.
Crdswmn-i apologize .I did not mean the comment to be hateful.We obviously see things differently.I am not a TLZR lover-I I just am not a TLR basher-theres a difference IMO.I like many things he does and shake my head at others.
I think you bashers go overboard sometimes too.It gets a bit sad to read the constant bashing and how some people apprently forget some of the crappy teams in the 70`s and early 90`s and how many of those teams where never even serious factors 8in thwe pennant races.Thats one reason i like TLR-the team hads been in contention almost every year and has had a real chance.
I see Westy is in his own scrambled little world of make beleive and conspiracies as usual.Some things never change.
I accept your apology BW. I don’t deny that the Cardinals have had good teams under TLR. But I also see that TLR’s recent teams (since 06) have spiraled downward and I think will continue to do so as long as TLR is still there. He is not the manager he used to be and has become an albatross to the team. And for some reason Mo just enables him. I spend money on tickets so I have the right to express my anger at the bone headed moves made by the organization that will continue to bring the team I love down. Nothing good will come of keeping Skip at 2B and replacing Brendan with Juan Uribe or some other old vet for TLR to love. The future of the Cardinals are the young players and TLR is ruining that future.
Bw52 – be careful, people will start confusing us.
BW, one does not need to recall the 1970s to appreciate TLR. One reason for differences in opinions is some fans live in the present or do not recall recent seasons. For instance, TLR is thought to favor veterans over rookies. But he promoted Pujols from the low A rung; Ankiel was in the majors circa age 21; Yadier Molina was promoted fast; Jaime Garcia only had a couple of years in the minors. The claim TLR will not value young players is selective and false.
I do recall recent seasons unfortunately.
Crdwmn, Brendan is not a young player. He is around 28 or 29. He is at his physical peak for baseball and in 2010 this peak was not good with the bat. He has been a helpful stop gap player at SS since 2007.
Yadier Molina is 28. I guess that is his physical peak as well and he was not good at the bat in 2010. Mo should jettison him as well I suppose.
Juan Uribe is 31. Way past his peak. Something is wrong with this picture you have painted Jumbo my friend.
Everybody keep your eyes peeled for Mo’s testes on ebay. I’d like to feed them to my dog on March 26th.
BB you never disappoint.
Now, if there is a real journalist among the local sports media, an interview with Brendan would show up in a day or two. He should have a chance to respond, even if he chooses “no comment”.
Better yet, perhaps RC would invite him to join the fun at TCNB, or his dad.
They may show up there if who finds them after he lost them decides to sell them.
I would be afraid to touch them for fear of catching the spineless toad disease.
Brendon’s dad’s a lawyer. The words would be too nuanced to have value!
I don’t know CC, crdswmn is a lawyer and ‘spineless toad’ is not all that nuanced.
Brendan’s father has passed unfortunately for Brendan, and Brendan loves the cardinals way too much to ever say a negative word about them. I believe Brendan was one of the late in life kids as I do believe his mother is in her mid to late 60′s.
He will take the tongue lashing that is most certainly to come via TLR as the questions mount up in regards to why the cardinals are upgrading at short instead of 2B. And I’m sure TLR will feel the need to inform the cardinal fans about the list of negative traits that Brenda possesses just to make sure cardinals fans know that this was a must move for the success of the team.
Thanks BB. I like to think I am just one of the guys.
Poor Brendan. He doesn’t deserve to be treated this way. But the best revenge is doing well and Brendan will get his revenge with another team. I just hope it isn’s an AL team.
I’m sure you are right RC. When lack of clutch hitting was costing games, Mo traded the best clutch RBI man to bolster the rotation which had not been costing games. That proved to not cure the problem (big surprise). So now he will replace Brendan, who actually played better in the second half when the team tanked. Clearly, Mo and Tony will have to spin that. Fortunatly for them, they will not be pressed by the media.
I’m not sure if its contagious crdswmn, the bigger danger would be mistaking them for raisens.
Brendan lives in California doesn’t he? Maybe the Giants or the Dodgers will pick him up. I think Brendan would fit right in with the Giants. Does anyone know Sabean’s email?
Now that’s just gross BB
Ryan had a miserable season with the bat, down around 575 OPS, whereas a SS needs to be up around 700. Even when we had the terrible Cesar Izturis, he achieved 630. I hope Ryan bounces back and has a much better year in 2011, but its understandable the Cards would like to upgrade offense at SS.
They would be much better off upgrading offense at 2B Jumbo and I think you know it. As I said before this is not about Brendan, it is about Skip.
Saw a theory on another board that Mo and TLR have made an agreement with each other (and apparently the devil) that Tony will accept Colby as his CF if Mo keeps Skip here as the 2B man. It certainly appears that is what could have happened though I’d hate to think that Mo would wimp like that. Of course he is possibly missing a pair ………
Possibly?
Last year at the winter warm up I was able to get into one of the Mo Q&A sessions and ask him a question. Perhaps I will attempt to do the same this year. I will begin formulating my question shortly, so any suggestions will be considered.
I’d really like to know the justification for keeping Skip at 2B. It can’t be defensive talent. I would like for someone to hold Mo’s feet to the fire on this one. The Cardinals could upgrade at 2B and still keep Skip by moving him back to the OF.
I like keeping Skip at 2B. He had an OPS of 760 during 2008/9. He can bounce back in 2010 and give the offense a lift.
Uribe is going to be costly. He had a fine season, 85 RBIs, wow. He is probably looking for $12MM over 2 years, well up from the $3.5MM he got during 2010. Its not clear the Cards are going to land Uribe, but he would be a great fit.
So Skip can bounce back but Brendan can’t? You never say a thing about Skip’s terrible defense. Skip can do just as well offensively in the OF. Jumbo dear, you are exasperating.
I’m not as negative on Skip’s defense as some, and I know the stats support them not me. I consider him serviceable, and he might hit .300 against righties. I could live with him at second, but mind you, I would not buy a ticket to see Skip play second base, and niether would anyone else. Skip will never sell a ticket. Brendan will, somewhere.
Skip is a career .292 hitter. His bat doesn’t fit in RF. Corner OF/IF spots are typically power and RBI slots and Skip isn’t a slugger. If Freese play 3B and you have Skip/Jay/Craig in RF, then we’d have 2/4 of the power spots with little HR production. Skip’s batting average with RISP last year was 4th best on the team… better than Colby or Holliday, in fact.
The calcuation has to be a willingness to accept Skip’s below average play at second base in exchange for offense. Keeping Ryan would be a calculation to accept below average offense for superior defense. Neither player is perfect. Mo has to pick his poison… offense or defense. He seems to be leaning toward upgrading the offense.
If, as rumored, Ryan is part of a deal with Arizona for Stephen Drew, the Cards will upgrade the offense big-time and not lose much on D.
Here’s a stats comparision between Ryan and Drew for 2010. Read as Stat (Drew/Ryan): At Bats (565/439), Runs (83/50), Hits (157/98), Doubles (33/19), Triples (12/3), Home Runs (15/2), RBI (61/36), Stolen Bases (10/11), Caught Stealing (5/4), Walks (62/33), Strike Outs (108/60), Batting Average (.278/.223), On Base % (.352/.279), Slugging (.458/.294), Errors (10/17), Fielding % (.978/.974).
The one negative about Drew is he is a Boras client. He’s arbitration eligible, making $3.4M last year, and becomes a free agent in 2013.
HB—If Skip can hit .300 at 2B he can hit .300 in the OF. Some defensive spots being “power” spots and so forth is hogwash.
You see, Brendan can get better at offense. Skip will never get better at defense at 2B. So the calculation is flawed. Mo can get better offense and defense at 2B and keep the defense at SS.
The chances of the Cards getting Stephen Drew are pretty slim.
The bottom line is TLR doesn’t like Brendan and he wants him gone. Just like he wanted Scott Rolen gone and Adam Kennedy gone and…………..
Skip got moved to 2B, to free up a roster slot for Wonder Boy. TLR likes Skip’s work ethic. One reason to keep him around is if we decide to trade Rasmus, Skip can move back to CF. He’s a better defensive CF than Jay.
There is no reason to feel sorry for Brendan. He was due to be the backup in 2009, but the starter went nutso. Unpredictable stuff happens in baseball. Brendan could end up playing a lot for the Cards.
It will be expensive to land Uribe. I will believe it when I see it. But Uribe would be a good sign. He can play 75 games at SS, 25 at 2B, and 50 at 3B. Meanwhile Matt Carpenter and Descalso train at Memphis and can be called up in the event of injuries.
Not hogwash crdswmn, baseball knowledge. Power on the corners, defense up the middle. It’s baseball 101.
Teams make exceptions if they have a player, say a Chase Utley type, who offers power from a non-traditional power position. That allowed them to carry Pedro Feliz at 3B, who had a great glove but no pop.
For the Cards, we’ve got power/RBI guys at 1B & LF covered. We had another one in Ludwick at RF before he was traded, and need to replace it. Freese showed RBI ability but hit few HR. Colby hits HR, but isn’t that solid an RBI guy yet. Luds hit 20+ HR, 100 RBI for us. I don’t see Jay, Craig and certainly not Skip being able to replace his production. If we don’t replace it, we are a weaker team than last year’s model.
You asked for justification. I outlined it as I see it. You can call it hogwash, but that doesn’t make it so.
I thought lawyers were trained to look at both sides of an issue and be prepared to argue either case. That principle would be advantageously applied to baseball as well. Skip is a good hitter, below average at 2B, but functional. Ryan is a great defender, but well below average with wood in his hands. Neither is perfect. If you want to upgrade offense, replacing the guy who hit .223 and looked clueless with wood in his hands most of last year is a good place to start.
And for all his defensive hype, Brendan had one more error than Skip last year.
You don’t think being personally attacked by your manager in the media undeservedly is a reason to feel sorry for Brendan? Or for the fact that he is probably going to get more of the same in the future in an attempt to justify a boneheaded move? Brendan has done nothing and I mean NOTHING to deserve being villified in such a way. We can argue the pros and cons of Brendan’s performance, but what TLR did to Brendan was unconscionable.
Crdswm, TLR wanted Rolen to play better for StL. TLR did not want Rolen gone, quite the contrary. He got over-ruled by Mo.
Adam Kennedy got paid $4MM to not work, in order to free up a roster slot for Wonder Boy. Its not clear this choice came from TLR. It probably came from Mo. Mo decided to move Skip to 2B and paid off Adam to leave.
Yesterday, I retweeted a note from an Arizona writer who said not only have the D’Backs NOT discussed Drew with the Cardinals, they have NO intention of trading him. Other than that…
numbers or not CRD…………a team has an up hill battle with two defensive specialists. Regardless off Molina’s numbers, which are just about as relevant as AP’s………… he is a tactical liability…… It is hard to hide two such players in the late innings when BP ‘s are in full match up………..
who doesn’t want a gold glove shortstop……………… but no one trades that doesn’t expect something back to replace it………………………….Brendan is the talk………..but not the object…….. we need a show move to and salary manipulation…………..actually, the beltan/ reyes trade is something a new GM would have to be looking at to retool…………….. it would suitable shake up Pujols village if you pulled it off………………..both are coming to the end of their contracts…….a BD signature move.
Do I think being attacked by a manager in the media is a reason to feel sorry for any player? No, at least not in this case. If TLR sugarcoated Ryan’s bad offensive season, some folks would say he was covering up for the guy.
I personally think Ryan will bounce back in 2011. But a team cannot stay pat every off-season. You have to make some changes and hope to get better.
bb, ref #109, I know how to get to Brendan, but I don’t intend to help him potentially dig a deeper hole for himself.
Lawyers advocate for a client. Mediators look at both sides of a case. I am not a mediator. You call it Baseball 101 then follow by saying there are exceptions. Good, then Skip can be an exception in RF. Dan Uggla is an exception at 2B. So is Joe Mauer at C. Ichiro is not a power hitter. I could go on and on. The Cardinals have power already in Pujols, Holliday and Rasmus. Why does it matter where another power bat is defensively? It doesn’t.
Brendan had one poor year offensively. The vast majority of his errors were in the first half. Skip’s errors were not. That error stat is a red herring. That is not justification that is rationalization. TLR wants Brendan gone and it must be so.
Jumbo, one problem is that the sugarcoating seems to be selectively applied, there and here
.
Brian, regarding #135, how much stock do you put in some FO type saying that a team hasn’t had trade talks about a player? We know it is often not true or just means there hasn’t been a firm offer made. IT often means a guy is as good gone!
Oh please Jumbo. No one with any brains would believe TLR would try to sugar coat anything about Brendan. He reserves that for Skip. This is just getting silly.
CC, ref #140, have you seen a credible media source report on the Drew rumor? The only place I have seen it discussed is by wishful Cardinals fans.
(Edit: Same for Bengie Molina.)
2Bmen should not collect a lot of errors. SS is a tougher position. If Brendan had 1 more error than Skip, this does not reflect poorly on Brendan.
We actually do not know TLR wants Brendan gone. All we know for sure is TLR wants more help at SS. Given a 573 OPS from Ryan, this is not highly surprising.
Brian’s quote of TLR from that radio show the other day, paraphrasing, was that his spirit was broken at the plate last year, that he took that frustration into the field with him and that if an upgrade was to be made at 2B/SS, Brendan’s job was in jeopardy. That is an accurate analysis of his performance last year and a statement about his future prospects, not a personal attack.
A personal attack is saying someone sucks or calling them an inflexible meglomaniac.
The Diamondbacks are not going to trade Drew, just like the Cards are not going to move Rasmus.
Maybe. The only way we will find out what is going to happen is to stay tuned.
And just for the record on Drew, my remarks about him were prefaced with ‘If, as rumored’…
HB—-You can keep comparing apples to oranges if you want to. If I ever become a public figure whose opinions matter, I will be sure to watch my tongue.
crdswmn — In discussing corner OF/IF as power positions and ‘up the middle’ as defensive slots, I said typically… not always, not forever, not exclusively. There are exceptions to every rule (and probably exceptions to even THAT statement) but it’s so generally recognized that there shouldn’t be any dispute about it.
OK. Then it seems to me you have weakened your own argument. There is no reason Skip can’t play the OF.
I’m sure the entire media corps are rushing to not help Brendan did a deeper hole. Good to know he has friends.
No, I think some do like to stir things up, to incite controversy, to “make” news and draw attention to themselves. I am not one of them.
Inquiring about Brendan’s thoughts on Mo’s and Tony’s public comments would be inciting controversy?
Without knowing Brendan but from what RC says, h might just say Tony and Mo are right. I stunk last year and the Cards do need to improve there. Hopefully they’ll give me the chance to be the one to give them that improvement.
I think he’d say something like “I’ll be catching some rays, let me know where to show up”.
dan uggla is on the trading block, stephen drew is not. uggla is being peddled by a club that gave cody ross away, to avoid his arb3 (7mil-ish). drew is a fleecing waiting to happen, simply due to positional scarcity. arizona knows what they have and his value to mlb.
adapt to the market and get the best player available, not a predetermined position. whomever trades for uggla picks up a 10mil+ salary, and they will be trading away less than expected. what’s fla choice? non-tender him? they’ve already determined they don’t want the 10mil salary, and are fielding offers. they have targeted a catcher and have since moved maybin. start with anderson and JJ, see where the bidding goes.
uggla has made it clear he wants a multi-year mega-buck contract. rent his bat for 2011 as a bridge to cox/descalso (as starters) and offer FA arb after 2011, for the type A picks. skip to RF with craig. tony still has a lineup spot for his lapdog, but he’s not on the infield, unless uggla is needed at 3B. if the bidding gets too high, step out.
I would love to have Uggla but that is a pipe dream.
There is absolutely no way the Cards take on a $10M position player. They’d have to dump salary and there is nobody but Skip to dump, and even then there would have to be some money coming with the player. I believe that is the case even if they don’t spend $5M-$10M on a rotation guy.
The Blue Jays waived 3B Edwin Encarnacion, probably because he would have made $6MM via arbitration. It would have been great to land Encarnacion back in August, instead of Pedro Feliz. Now Wheeler Dealer Billie Beane and the As have Encarnacion. Mo knows how to do deals with Billie. The As have a 3B surplus, Kouzhramoff (sp) and Encarnacion. It will be interesting to see what happens with them.
IMO the Cards will end up going completely opposite of the rumors and totally pull a trade out of somewhere unexpected.Some team not on anyones radar……………..
You may be right Bw. It also seems odd that the GM and manager would point out all the negatives of a guy they want to trade. Like a used car salesman telling you all the bad stuff.
As I understand it, the GM meetings this week are to discuss business stuff rather than work out deals. But maybe a few new twists of rumor mill will emerge. That and the 40 man decisions may shed some light.
The negative PR stuff may be to justify a free agent bid for Uribe. Its not to talk up Brendan’s trade value.
Why would they need to justify a FA bid for Uribe? Most fans agree we need middle infield relief and I would bet the majority think we need it at 2B Uribe can play 2B. Why the need for justification?
Brian — Re: Stephen Drew. This appeared in the Strauss chat this week, in response to a question about Uribe or Hudson…
The Diamondback’s Stephen Drew makes much sense for a number of reasons. He is a competent defender who can hit all over the lineup, including leadoff. He has extra-base power. He is also second-time arbitration-eligible and a Scott Boras client. You would acquire him for two years. GM John Mozeliak said Tuesday he believes it more likely the club finds help at shortstop through trade than free agency. Drew appears an obvious target.
The Cards have home-grown two shortstops after Gary Templeton was a first rounder in circa 1973 — Jack Wilson, 1998 draft, and Brendan Ryan, 2003. Three homegrown SSes over a period of about 37 years.
Walt traded Wilson to the Pirates for a few months of a LOOGY, Christiansen. Wilson has had a good ML career, winning a silver slugger award in 2004. Wilson has stayed in MLB long enough to earn big bucks, about 9MM per annum. The Pirates traded him to Seattle, where the hideously overpaid Wilson helped the Mariners enjoy a losing season just past, laughing all the way to the bank, as well he should.
Coincidentally, during 2010, Brendan Ryan and Jack Wilson finished with nearly the same OPS, 573 for Ryan, 572 for Wilson. I guess this is a positive for Brendan. Though his OPS fell from 740 during 2009, to 573 in 2010, he still was not quite as bad as Wilson, who makes about 20 times the money.
Crdswmn, if the Cards were able to land Uribe via an expensive free agent contract, they will have themselves a bouncy baby 230 pound shortstop and 3Bman. To avoid relying on Ryan in 2009, they paid Khalil Greene about $6MM for one season. Despite how horribly this turned out in 09, they are pursuing a similar gameplan for 2011, looking to invest more salary money at SS.
Ref #163, thanks, HB. That tells me that Joe Strauss likes the idea of trying to acquire Drew. I would not call that a rumor, however I can see how some others might want to leap to that conclusion.
I’m not sure who everyone thinks that the Cardinals would trade for all of these top notch players. It certainly wouldn’t be unwanted spare parts …
I don’t get it either Nut. I would think they’d be talking up Ryan, massive potential, fluke year, growing pains, whatever.
Perhaps Cox or even Chambers would have significant value.
The possible non-tender of Ludwick bears watching, unless there is a reason he wouldn’t be welcome back. His end of season slump might make him cheaper as a FA than he would be as an arb guy. Clutch RBIs is just what the Dr ordered. That would give us a couple of young right fielders to talk up.
Yes, they would have to give up talent to get talent, but I do not subscribe to the line of thinking that the Cards have just one desirable minor leaguer in their entire system.
Inspired by the discussion here, I am just putting the finishing touches on a “Why not look into Dan Uggla?” post.
The SD GM has said Ludwick will be back in SD.With Adrian Gonzalez surgery and being on the trade block the Padres need a little pop.That said General Managers have been known to change their minds.
Jumbo wrote, “The negative PR stuff may be to justify a free agent bid for Uribe. Its not to talk up Brendan’s trade value.”
Unfortunately for the Cardinals they seem to hold onto some assets until they are virtually worthless.
I stated way back that Anthony Reyes should be dealt when the comments from TLR and Dave started floating about at how he wouldn’t conform to their wishes. The cards waiting until he was worth little or nothing before getting rid of him.
I also stated that some of these guys, that it is obvious TLR doesn’t see as fitting in his system, should be dealt while they had value before they lost it all. I said Brendan should be dealt, Anderson, Greene, just to name a few. If you are not in the good graces from jump street you will never be. More than one former player has communicated that fact to me in conversations..
Brendan had value but it has gone and now with the negative comments he is worthless in a trade. Anderson has been used so little, see September, that everyone knows he isn’t going to play much for TLR so he can’t be traded for anything. Greene the same.
To me this is the biggest problem for Mo. If TLR shows that he doesn’t see a player working out for him then Mo should trade that player asap in order to get something of value from that player. It seems like Mo is saying you play the players I am giving you and TLR is saying I can make it so tough on those guys that they will fail and I’ll be showing you I was right from the start.
I need help with something here.
How is it that Brendan Ryan is being ripped up and down for his performance (by the team) and Skip is not? Brendan at least makes the pitching staff better. Skip makes it worse. Both had rough years offensively but at least one of them can play the position competently. Why are we trying to get rid of that one?
It can’t really be this simple…
Grit easton……………..grit and knee pads. Thats the best guess I can come up with.
Who knows…but it sounds like it is going to be a long off-season for easton714.
It is only November and we are already publicly standing behind incompetence.
I may need to pad my office wall…
Did you get that padding up? How’s that working out for you?