Could the St. Louis Cardinals chances of keeping Albert Pujols beyond 2011 be heading south?
During a Friday segment on KTRS 550 radio, the Post-Dispatch’s Joe Strauss told John Marecek that he thinks the chance that Albert Pujols will sign an extension with the St. Louis Cardinals could soon be less than 50 percent.
Strauss said he would have originally put Pujols’ odds of remaining with St. Louis beyond the 2011 season at 75 percent, but perceives the chances are decreasing daily. Strauss did not state the reason for the new trajectory.
As recently as Thursday, in a Dominican Republic interview, Pujols reaffirmed his desire to remain a Cardinal for the remainder of his career, keeping pressure on the organization to declare their hand regarding years and money to be offered.
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I called a friend who knows baseball pretty much, about the Pags move………he seemed surprised, but indifferent…………….
the game is at hand……………..I’m excited about it……..it means change, pressure on Molina and his catch every game habits…………………………Bringing another Molina in would be a radical move. New friend to replace an old one?………….Extra friends to entice an important one?………….A strong competitor with appetites suites me fine…………….
I like the tight lipped evaluation by Strauss………………….. Uniformed? He sees signs of a losing strategy?………………….Are the Cardinals just herding AP toward his new destination? Has he heard a number………… I am excited about change because it is essential to create a winner.
The Union will want Albert to get as large a contract as possible.
MLB loves melo-drama. Bud Selig might love for Albert to go into free agency next winter, so millions of fans can root their team lands him.
Accordingly I would be a little surprised if Albert signs this off-season. Its much more exciting to heighten the drama.
Where will Albert sign next winter? Will DeWitt have to leave town? Stay tuned.
The only thing significnt about what Strauss said is that Strauss said it. His livlihood depends on his ‘connectedness’ remaining in tact, so he must know or perceive that his statement is not objectionable to the front office.
As with any negotiation, whichever side puts numbers on the table first, places themself at a disadvantage. Albert’s side knows that eventually the other side will have to do it, whether that ‘other side’ is the Cards this winter or other clubs next winter. The Cards, I assume, are smart enough to have figured that out. So the question is, do they place themselves at a disadvantage now, or wait and do it next winter along with everyone else? The first reason for doing it now is the hope of getting a below market deal. But the question that has to be going through Mo’s mind is if Albert is willing to do a below market deal, then what does ‘it is out of my control’ mean. The second reason for doing it now is you don’t have to worry about him signing with somebody else tomorrow. If Mo guesses wrong about what sort of home town deal Albert will consider, and Albert gets miffed or ‘insulted’, there is plenty of time to repair the damage.
A lot of big money long term deals look like a bad deal a year in, so that is a big reason to wait if you are the Cards. Albert’s value a year from now can better be understood a year from now rather than now. There is value in that, significant value. That value might be greater than whatever discount Albert would be willing to give in exchange for a contract now. I’m not sure if Albert’s side perceives that, nor do I think they would place a fair value on it. So my opinion, as I’ve mentioned before, is that the Cards would be better off waiting until next winter.
In a few hours the FA exclusive window ends, still nothing on Westbrook.
Good luck to Cox in the Rising Stars game tonight. If it turns out I am underestimating him, it would be a huge plus for the team. Hopefully, that will be the case. I am especially interested in any comment Brian might have about Cox’s fielding at 3B after seeing for himself.
The out in the negotiating game of putting the number on the table first is come in high with low years or low with a lot of years. The other out is come in low this year and if he doesn’t bite you have a second window next year.
Westie, you should call a friend that knows baseball more often. It might improve your posting. Of course I don’t know how many lifelines Regis will give you.
Matt Holliday did not give a home town discount. Why should Albert?
Since there is no discount at issue, but fair market price for an elite player, the bidding will be in the area of $180MM/6 years. The winning bid may be $210MM/7 years.
The high $/low years or low $/high years strategy is intriguing, CC. It would, as you say, offset some of the disadvantage of being first to talk numbers. If the Cards opened with 5/150 with a series of mutual options beyond that, it would be hard for anyone to get too offended. Additionally, if it was strategically leaked that the Cards had put it on the table, then Albert’s ‘it is out of my control’ posture goes out the window. I would then be totally in his control. Wouldn’t it be interesting to see what his explaination would be for rejecting? Would be hard to keep his PR position in tact, and hard to keep the fans in his corner. Then, Mo could just say he’s waiting for a counter-offer. Most likely he’d have to wait forever. That would certainly make for an interesting season.
IMO Strauss is throwing numbers at the wall just to get a reaction.The drama queens like Westy will love it because its another scenario to imagine some more boogeymen and grassy knolls and agendas to boggle a member of the Tin Foil hat brigade.
Dear Mr. Jumbo Shrimp:
Your post on October 17 contains some highly erroneous factual information about Marty Mason.
It is as follows:
Southpaw Marty Mason was drafted in June 1979, out of a community college serving Minneapolis, MN. He pitched in the minors between 1980-86, before becoming a pitching coach. Mason was an employee of the Cards for 30 years.
Marty Mason was not drafted. In 1979 he played his junior year at Western Kentucky University. The following summer he played in a Canadian college league. He finished his college career at WKU, and was signed by the Yankees and was assigned to Oneonta, NY of the NY_Penn league. The next summer he pitched for the Yankees farm club in Greensboro NC. He was traded to the Cardinals in 1982 and pitched at Springfield, ILL. He is not a Southpaw, and he has been Cardinal employee for 28 years. Check your facts before posting.
Looks like negotiations to me. I’d guess numbers were exchanged, Albert’s comments to the Dominican press were a response and this Strauss comment a response by ownership to Albert. That scenario makes sense if JS’s earlier report that ‘Team Pujols’ was looking for a $300M/10 year deal is true.
Personally, I refuse to be ‘dramatized’ by the whole affair. I’d love to see Albert wearing the birds on the bat for his entire career. If it doesn’t happen, I’d be hugely disappointed. But, sure as the sun rises in the east, I’d get over it in time. Been a Cards fan too long to do otherwise.
Lots more maneuvering to come, so no sense getting excited about it either way this early in the game.
I see Cox is in the starting lineup, batting eighth. Eighth?
The boys at the PD sure like to stir things up.
WillieBen, I tried to find Mason’s playing stats. I found a Mason, but he must not have been the right one.
Just heard something that doesn’t make a lot of sense. An acquaintance in San Pedro de Macoris says he heard Starlin Castro will play in the Dominican Winter League and will be showing up next week.
Whaaa? Why would he do that. Why would the Cubs allow it. Does anyone know of a way to check that out.
E 5, ouch.
bling — Looks like that Castro business is true. Here is a link.
http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2010/10/cubsminors10111.php
Holy cow HB. Imagine if Garcia wanted to go pitch in some winter league.
I’m pretty sure that is Moises Alou’s team. As an aside, 99 year old Jamie Moyer was pitching for them today and blew out the elbow he was rehabbing.
I guess there is less risk of a position player getting injured, but still, the Cubs would be screwed if Castro gets hurt. And what is to gain?
Zack is done for the night, reached on an error and grounded out. One error.
Why is that any different than the Cards letting Molina play in the Puerto Rican League?
Castro’s defense was pretty ragged at times last year. I’d bet that’s what he’s working on in the DWL.
Sounds like Moyer is done. Not bad, pitching to age 99. Remember he got hurt while we were playing them right after the AS break. Future trivia question?
Right HB. Other good questions: Losingest pitcher of all time, second losingest manager of all time.
CC, I sure hope you’re talking about that World Baseball Classic and not something he’s doing this year, yikes. That was insane, too. IIRC, the Cards were kinda begrudging about it.
He isn’t rich yet BB…………..they learn a lot from playing in that environment. They’re kids. Not that many ways to teach them at that point……….peer mentoring and learning to deal with a more “masculine pressure than the MLB. Playing everyday is a lesson……..for pride and honor….for territory……..for feeding rights.
Not the WBC, bb, but the Puerto Rican League. He plays most every year on a team usually managed by Oquendo. Don’t think he has played so far this year. He doesn’t play a lot but he plays. Some good things come out of it. I believe Tony Cruz played down there with him one year so I’m sure that helped him.
Here’s one article that mentions him playing after the 2006 season.
Here’s a couple of more
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eiDL8LfxAVsJ:www.facebook.com/group.php%3Fgid%3D2204843719+molina+%22puerto+rican+winter+league%22&cd=1&hl=pt-BR&ct=clnk&gl=br&client=firefox-a
http://diamondbacks.scout.com/a.z?s=247&p=9&c=2&cid=817015&nid=4753531&fhn=1&pg=2
This is a common reaction for US fans. They do not understand ML players wanting to play in their own countries, before friends and among their own people, inspiring and teaching youngsters.
Yes, there is a risk of players getting hurt while playing winter ball. But many choose to play. IIRC, when Tony Pena caught for the Cards, he may have suffered an injury in winter ball.
Appreciate the info.
No Westbrook. Assuming the Cards made an offer, it must have been a low ball and he told them to shove it. Or he thinks he will get multi-years. The Cards might be failing to value having tried a guy on, preferring instead to overpay for a Penny debacle waiting to happen.
bling — Losingest pitcher all-time… same as winningest pitcher all time… Cy Young. With an overall record of 511-316.
Second most losses as a manager? Our very own TLR. Two more seasons and he’ll be #2 on the list for wins as well, really #1, behind only Connie Mack who owned the team he managed.
No Westbrook yet.BB.Cards still working on a 2 year deal with a option for a 3rd according to the PD.Why not wait and see what happens before going Westy .
Yah, Tony has lost more games than everybody except a guy who couldn’t be fired.
The Cards will have made Westbrook a strong offer. They did not underpay Pineiro or Penny, in recent years. Westbrook is in a stronger negotiating position, Pineiro and Penny were coming off bad years.
Studbrook rebounded from injury in 2010, eating 200 innings. His last contract was 3 years and about $11MM/yr. The market as a whole may be weaker now, so he may not equal his last deal.
But there is no reason for Westbrook to sign now with the Cards even before finding out what others will offer. Mo could bribe Lohse and Pineiro to sign early, while Westbrook can still sign with the Cards, but has no reason to do so now, because his market appeal is good.
bling — TLR has also won more games than every manager but one, and as you noted, that guy who couldn’t be fired.
HBT – TLR is still only third in wins behind the guy you mentioned and John McGraw.
Diz — Yes, I know that. TLR has won more games than every manager but one (McGraw) AND that guy who couldn’t be fired (Connie Mack). Sorry if the way I worded that left doubt about what I was saying.
General info………..BPenny is not on good terms with STLC………… he will get 2/17 2/18 on the open market even if he has to wait for the ST injuries to effect teams……….Cardinals played their hand hard………and he played it hard right back…………he was calling for an independent exam……..like AP did….for a reason……………you won’t hear his name mentioned except in a smoke signal
…………..Westbrook has nothing to loose waiting for a better offer……..he is talking option for a reason……likely, if I go 2/16-17……..I want 10 if you’re interested in a 3rd……probably with a buyout………….
Penny got only a 1 year deal last winter, then had an injury marred season. Why would he get a longer deal this winter?
penny might get a one year with an option, but i can’t see a multi-year guaranteed, unless it’s club friendly low (2/9-10mil). he needs to sign a one year and try to re-establish his health, then look for a multi-year.
Given Lohse’s return from a rare surgery to release entrapped muscle, the Cardinals are less prone to again risk exposure by signing a free-agent pitcher with recent medical issues.?????????
Probably more likely not to do so due to so many past failures in this catagory; Mulder, Clement, Penny, and a host of others I’m not remembering at the moment.
Those are rhetorical question marks……………. that’s a third of the the message crafted by Strauss.
He is whispering through the bars…………..
This group is going “Jumbo numb”………… losing its relevance. Penny is now……..but that hardly applied to his 2010 season…….. Why do the Cardinals think that’s all they can afford? There was a risk element on Westbrook……………. is Lohse really back? Waino threw “way to many breaking ball” in 2010……….slept on it? Or has he found himself on the slippery slope? In every instance, the Org. has withheld information that would change its bargaining posture to this winters market………
No back up catcher??????????? they will fish the dead pool……… how late?????? They’re probably guessing the AP story in Jan will obscure many things…………this last statement is my opinion.