Word is that the White Sox are targeting St. Louis Cardinals centerfielder Colby Rasmus in trade, with Chicago offering a player with a very familiar profile and red flags attached.
Blockbuster trades in today’s MLB are much less frequent than back in the pre-free agent days, when general managers like Frank “Trader” Lane made their reputation (and sometimes lost it) through scores of player swaps with their peers.
Chicago White Sox general manager Kenny Williams, one of the co-stars of a recent reality television series on MLB Network, may be today’s closest reincarnation of Lane.
Within the last few days, word leaked out of Williams’ proposal to deal his popular, but combustible manager Ozzie Guillen, to the Florida Marlins. The requested take was immense – rookie Marlins’ outfielder Mike Stanton.
In Saturday’s Chicago Sun-Times, another Williams maneuver to acquire a young outfielder with potential superstar talent was disclosed. Two sources indicate that the GM has St. Louis Cardinals outfielder Colby Rasmus in his sights.
According to a major league scout, the Sox are proposing a package that includes outfielder Carlos Quentin. Other players in the potential deal were not named.
The same scout notes Cardinals scouts were “paying extra attention” to Quentin late in the season, implying the proposed deal may have been under consideration for some time.
Adding weight to the rumor is the news that a White Sox source contacted by the Sun-Times confirmed that Rasmus had been brought up during the final weeks of the regular season.
While Rasmus has had trouble with the Cardinals, Quentin has had problems with baseball in general.
This quote from the Sun-Times speaks volumes:
“The Sox love his raw talent but are concerned about his capacity to grind out an entire season without beating himself up mentally. A team source said Quentin planned to again visit with a life coach this offseason so he could ‘start having some fun in the game’.”
So Quentin already has problems despite playing for the loose manager Guillen and his last attempt at getting professional help did not take. Does he sound like a good fit for Tony La Russa’s grind-it-out a hard nine innings at-a-time Cardinals?
It is not as if there are reports of Quentin beating himself up physically as did former St. Louis shortstop Khalil Greene, but why again take on the additional risk of someone else’s problem?
From a salary and years perspective, this deal would also be a loser for the Cardinals, at least on a one-for-one basis.
Rasmus, 24, with only two years of MLB experience, has four more years of team control prior to free agency. Quentin has just two remaining.
Like Rasmus, the 28-year-old Quentin was a former first-round draft pick, taken in 2003 by Arizona and dealt to the Sox prior to the 2007 season. Chicago’s right fielder made $3.2 million in 2010, his first of three arbitration-eligible years. Quentin is not yet under contract for 2011 or 2012 but will surely be in line for increases.
In other words, Quentin is at the same exact spot in his career as was Ryan Ludwick one year ago. A key reason cited for Ludwick being traded away by the Cardinals this summer was his escalating salary in his final two years prior to free agency.
In terms of on-field results offensively, the two’s recent pasts are eerily similar.
Quentin had a superb breakout season in 2008, during which he was an All-Star and Silver Slugger Award winner, but dropped off in performance the last two years. Ludwick has the exact same profile – 2008 All-Star and Silver Slugger who did not match that level of play in 2009 or 2010.
| Quentin | Team | G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS+ |
| 2008 | CHW | 130 | 480 | 96 | 138 | 26 | 1 | 36 | 100 | 66 | 80 | 0.288 | 0.394 | 0.571 | 0.965 | 148 |
| 2009 | CHW | 99 | 351 | 47 | 83 | 14 | 0 | 21 | 56 | 31 | 52 | 0.236 | 0.323 | 0.456 | 0.779 | 98 |
| 2010 | CHW | 131 | 453 | 73 | 110 | 25 | 2 | 26 | 87 | 50 | 83 | 0.243 | 0.342 | 0.479 | 0.821 | 117 |
| Ludwick | Team | G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | OPS+ |
| 2008 | STL | 152 | 538 | 104 | 161 | 40 | 3 | 37 | 113 | 62 | 146 | 0.299 | 0.375 | 0.591 | 0.966 | 150 |
| 2009 | STL | 139 | 486 | 63 | 129 | 20 | 1 | 22 | 97 | 41 | 106 | 0.265 | 0.329 | 0.447 | 0.775 | 105 |
| 2010 | STL/SD | 136 | 490 | 63 | 123 | 27 | 2 | 17 | 69 | 48 | 121 | 0.251 | 0.325 | 0.418 | 0.743 | 104 |
One big difference is that Quentin is considered a poor defender, designated hitter material in the eyes of some, and has the reputation of being injury prone to boot, but hey, at least he is four years younger than Ludwick!
Seriously, why would the Cardinals trade Ludwick away in July, only to add a similar version with more warts a few months later while losing two cost-controlled seasons of the younger centerfielder Rasmus to boot?
For this rumored deal to gain traction, there would have to be a lot more to it, it would seem.
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I’d do the 3 way trade – Rasmus to the Sox, Guillen to the Fish, Stanton to the Cards.
Brilliant, CC! You are Trader Lane material!
A deal that makes no sense at all for the Cards.
Wow, This does look like a dream trade for TLR. Quentin to RF, Skip to CF, Jay a 4th OF. And now Mo could go get Tony a 2B.
It will feel like Christmas all off season for Mo as he gets to open a new gift weekly in the way of a new trade proposal for Colby. I just believe Mo will have the opportunity to bring in a couple of players that could very well make the Cards better in 2011.
A dream trade if you like less offense, worse defense, another shaky personality to manage and a higher payroll to boot. Other than that Mrs. Lincoln…
Forgot to add increased health risk and an older roster…
If you hire TLR to manage you had better give him what he wants in terms of players if you want to win. You said older roster, right? You are headed in the right direction…………the Tony Zone, where the older players will walk over hot coals to hang onto the game that has slipped away from them. Where Tony can mix and match players deemed worthless to other organizations, and win with them.
In recent times, the Cards enjoyed success with Jim Edmonds in their lineup. Since the majority of opposing pitchers are RHPs, it helps to have a lefty swinger or two, to supplement the right tilt of Pujols and Holliday. Quentin does not do this.
Lou Brock, Bill White, Roger Maris, Ted Simmons, Keith Hernandez, switch-hitters Templeton/Smith, Pendleton, Herr, and McGee; Rey Langford. Etc.
It’s not April Fool’s Day, so this must be a Halloween scare trick.
”It was obvious that [the Cardinals] were paying extra attention to Quentin at the end of the season, so this might have been something that was already talked about,” the scout said.
ok, i call BS. an explanation of “extra attention” is in order here.
Much as I love RCW, if Mo could actually get Carlos Quentin’s Dad for him, even up, while retaining Colby, I could live with it.
Yet Mo should not throw Westie into the deal, just to get it done. That would be giving up way too much.
White Sox are doing the same thing the Cardinals are doing…………………acting like they’re doing something…………………there is a reason………..see it………..
Maybe the Cubs will offer the Harry Carey statue and the frozen head of Steve Bartman.
See what I mean? We could not live without him.
Stay sober Jumbo…………stay off the bench………..and also, I’m touched by the flattery…………..
really its quite effortless for me.
The Baseball industry is a game of “values” and speculations surrounding an assumed “competitive” aspiration…………. Allot of money changes hands on the assumption that players will “play”….or can play………. do you realize how much money can be “skimmed” out of this process, just by assigning credibility where there is none………….. BD was a heavy player in the derivative ripoff, and he wasn’t the one that lost……………… its a wonderful business model. You can use it again and again……………. enjoy…………… Colby (chew toy) is in play………..Albert/Lozano will be unavailable till after the winter meetings………..they think that will pressure BD?????………I hope they bring more game than that……….. you will watch Colby in on one scenario after the next, Mo- puppet leaking leads like a rain bird………….while the FA’s are taken………………Mo has no imagination, so he will blather all the same “cliche’s”.
This is the kind of stuff I live for. Only good thing about winter.
RC–promise me you wil stick around if the Cardinals do trade Colby.
After the Westbrook-Ludwick deal, Mozeliak and TLR were quoted saying there had been an effort to add a bat to replace Ludwick, but that the deal fell through.
Anyone here know the identity of the player they were after?
Jumbo, This blog would be as rose colored and robot like like the other blogs without me and WC to force you to think a little bit. Even if that thinking is probably misleading. My feelings are hurt that would give me away for Carlos’ dad, who I think is dead.
Our own “Weekend at Bernie’s” moment…
Weekend at Bernies and the severed head of Steve Bartman… appropriately ghoulish for All Hallow’s Eve Eve…
And to top it all off, cardswoman has been disemvoweled!
“So how do the Yankees get younger while many of their core players get older?
Enter Rasmus, the Cardinals’ 23-year-old center fielder who, like so many talented youngsters before him, can’t seem to get along with Cardinals’ manager Tony LaRussa.
Despite being a terrific defender and St. Louis’ best power hitter not named Albert Pujols or Matt Holliday, LaRussa was hesitant to play Rasmus on a regular basis this season. He received just 464 at-bats, and was occasionally benched for the likes of Jon Jay and Randy Winn. Rasmus still managed to hit .273 with 23 home runs and 66 RBI’s to go alongwith 12 steals despite the inconsistent playing time, but was rumored to have asked for a trade near the end of the season – a request that didn’t sit well with many of his teammates.” . . . .
. . . . . “If the Bronx Bombers were to offer a package centered on Gardner, Joba Chamberlain and prospect Manny Banuelos, however, the Cardinals might be inclined to seriously listen. . .If the Yankees were willing to eat the majority of his contract, perhaps A.J. Burnett could be involved in the deal as well. Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan has made a career out of righting the careers of struggling veterans, and Burnett would be aided by a move out of the AL East.” . . .
http://www.nesn.com/2010/10/cardinals-center-fielder-colby-rasmus-would-be-excellent-fit-for-aging-yankees.html
The holy grail RC.
Cards are gonna get a lot of press this winter. Just like last winter.
Thanks for the laugh, bb. If Joba isn’t the most overrated player in baseball, he has to be very close. The Cards already have Brett Gardner. His name is Skip Schumaker.
Yes, we are going to see a lot of these flotsam proposals that will only get RC and that team’s fans excited.
Yah, Joba and Brett don’t cut it, but if the Yankees would happen to set their sights on Colby, they could come up with a deal Mo couldn’t refuse. Unless he doesn’t mind a horse head in his bed.
I thought this from some writer in Boston was telling:
“. . . like so many talented youngsters before him, can’t seem to get along with Cardinals’ manager Tony LaRussa.”
A couple weeks ago, it was Oct. 10th, we were out having a pizza and a couple pitchers in honor of Bill Wambsganss, my brother said he’d bet Colby ends up with the Yankees. I didn’t take it seriously, but it would be fun to see what they’d offer. Be fun to see what Mo would demand.
I actually hope Colby stays in St. Louis, if the truth be known. But I do enjoy revving up Jumbo and some others, and hope that nerd Jerry Modene slips by and sees something I write in hopes that he will have a titty baby hissy fit like he usually does. But its all in good fun as far as I’m concerned.
I actually don’t believe Colby will have any problems dealing with TLR from here on out. But I also think that they should text each other if they have anything to say to each other. The less they speak to one another the better.
Maybe the Yankees could eat most of A.J. Burnett’s contract……………………I love that one. You make it seem like baseball is a risky venture BB………………..maybe 700 grand Dave can reclaim the 80 million dollar AJ……………….. Colby would fit right in with the Yankee’s……………he could hang out at Hugh Hefner’s mansion with Derick and Alex…………….maybe go clubbing………….
The only thing about ever playing for the Yankees is that you would have a chance to win a WS every year, and the short right field porch is a nice thing for any LH hitter to see for 82 games a year.
WS appearances in St. Louis once the Cardinals sign Albert for 30 million a year may be few and far between.
But a Gardner and Burnett for Colby trade with the Yankees paying most of the Burnett deal may cause Dave Duncan to strip naked and run down through the quad. Dave may be able to turn Burnett into a stud once again.
I bet the Yanks would cut off a leg to get “tunnel talking” Chris Carpenter……….. that would bring you some talent on a trade………………….problem is………..we already passed up there entire team when they were on the market……………….. Robinson and Colby……yeah that works……..sober up.
Since they made Colby the (chew toy)……….everyone is going to be bending Gumby into all sorts of dream team fantasy’s………..Everyone thinks they can fix that swing it seems……………..
Westy, its not just the Yankees interested in improving the Yankees, that’s the worrysome part.
“Overnight television ratings for Game 2 of the 2010 World Series – a 9-0 beat-down by the San Francisco Giants on the Texas Rangers – drew a 9.9 overnight Nielsen rating, a decline of 27 percent compared to last year’s Fall Classic between the Phillies and Yankees. The decline is attributed almost exclusively to the absence of the Yankees not representing the American League this year.”
http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4838:game-2-of-2010-world-series-sees-ratings-down-27-from-2009&catid=57:television&Itemid=122
I would love to see AP run for it………….and watch what BD did to keep fan interest………. I really believe that had AP suffered a season ending injury in June…………the team would have made the plays and more…………I believe I said so at the time…………. Management is threatening not to change chemistry or process……….hell they’re doing it……………
they won’t cover Freese or Ryan??????????what changes???????? philosophic stalemate and inefficiency on offense………… traumatized neurotics on defense………. any real attitude change likely runs into the “super hero and his side kick”………….. We spank butts with Yukliss and Pedroia, lets do it……………….
Ahhhh WC, you are being too hard on the youngster, which you usually are.
I’m betting you WC, that Colby’s numbers will be better in 2011 than they were in 2010. Not steals because Tony won’t let him run unless its a hit n run but the other counting stats will be better across the board. If Colby gets traded I’m liking 25-30 jacks with at least 30 steals as well.
Its Fox BB…………..you would be missing the point if you believed that its Murrdock’s money flowing in. The balancing of his profit/ loss statements is done in Saudi Arabia………….Revenue may be down, but Bush throws out the ball tomorrow……….they wouldn’t risk it for a game 5 feature.
There is no doubt what you say in regards to the super hero and his sidekick is correct and that is why I have stated that those two will draw 3 million but the team will probably fall short. Way too many factions. Everybody follows the leader and try’s to get his numbers up, winning is secondary it seems.
I love the kid RC………… he is the natural…………..but I fix him first. Forget the Hr’s…….hit 325….and they will show up at an even pace……………I’m familiar with the Hamilton story……….Colby’s route would be easy in comparison……….he better recognize his challenges…………
WC, you need to try and escape from the financial rhetoric since none of us are capable of following you. If you could keep us out of the economics class I would have more fun as I hated economics in college. I’m begging you.
No rhetoric………. it is the ocean you sail on……….that is whats deciding your future. Baseball rarely crosses BD’s mind………………
WC, There is a method to the madness. Next year is the first year of arbitration, thats when this starts to matter. I expect big time adjustments this next year. Heck Mark McGwire may be heralded as a damn hitting genius before all is said and done. relax, I’ve told you before……trust me.
wc wrote, “Baseball rarely crosses BD’s mind……”
Heck I knew that when AP wasn’t traded for the mother load of talent before he achieved 10/5 status. It was clear then it was about 3 million fans and money. Thats right there is why I believe Cardinals fans will see more of the same these next few years.
27% drop in ratings equals a lot of money Westy. Over several games. Many millions I would think. It’s troublesome because, as I have said before, I would put nothing at all past the suits. FSN, for example, might be used to move money in one direction, under certain defined circumstances, in the hopes of much more money next year. I don’t have any particular nefarious plot in mind, but if the Yankees winning or not winning means big bucks, anything can happen. Joba and Brett can turn into a couple of silk purses if you know what I mean.
AP though he might lose control too………….. he sure seemed (relieved) after 7/30……….to the tune of 15 Hr’s…………….
You can’t “trick the system” RC, you really have few moves to be honest…..and they must be decisive…………………The system builds you up for profit……………it also tears you down at the right time trying to take a little more profit…….been there…………….BD has to make something happen, besides signing AP………….. not all landing places are soft.
BB, if you read the articles I posted last spring, you would understand……….if you read the articles I posted 2yrs ago, you wouldn’t have lost a dime in the current crisis………… go back and read the one where the crown prince donated 860 million to the share holders of citi banks……..so they would at least get some dividend on their shares……………………..
We’ll see WC, I haven’t missed yet but it can happen. No tricks………just a little hard work and careful planning. Your numbers dictate your worth, and they will rise again next year.
As far as landing spots being not being soft…….I say again, your numbers dictate your worth. And what is given up to get you also places value on you.
You think you’ve got it pegged……as do I. All it takes is time to find out who was right. But I’m telling you, I like it when a plan comes together.
Just playing WC…..I do have to keep up my angle in order to keep Jumbo on edge.
Produce………..in a timely fashion………when the spotlight is on………..then enjoy life…………
You have my attention………….
This is great stuff guys. I am loving it.
Oh and BB- WS ratings have been declining rapidly in the last couple of decades. The 2009 WS had an 11.7 rating and a 19 share. Want a comparison? The 1985 WS had a 25.3 rating and a 39 share. Overall viewership has declined across the board since FOX became exclusive. I call BS on the Yankees excuse.
Baseball Almanac World Series TV Ratings Breakdown——http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml. Yankees Smankees, it’s the East Coast Media bias talking.
Baseball Almanac World Series Television Ratings Breakdown http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml. Yankees Smankees, it’s the East Coast Media bias talking.
Baseball Almanac World Series Television Ratings Breakdown. http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml Yankees Smankees, it’s the East Coast Media bias talking.
Testing
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml
Brian, I’ve been trying to post a link but it won’t post.
Trying again. http://www.baseball-almanac.com/ws/wstv.shtml
Brian, I’ve been trying to post a link. Won’t work.
Anyway I got my ratings numbers from Baseball Almanac in case anyone is interested.
You can use a bit of HTML to post a link. I tried to type out a sample command to show you, but the system thinks it is a real link and converts it when displayed.
Instead, see the example on this page, entitled “HTML Link Syntax”.
Good observation crdswmn. 1985, the year the LCS’s went to best of 7 from best of five. Was that the high water mark, the start of the decline? Maybe the dropoff exceleratd after the wild card and DCS was added in 95? pushing baseball ever further out of its summer environment. Well, what matters for my train of thought is what the east coasters believe. If they think the Yankees losing is costing big bucks, something will be done, or attempted.
I had a Twitter comment taking exception to my glib Gardner-Skip comp back in #24, so I thought I would explain in a less-restricted format than the 140 character tweets allow.
Career OPS – Skip .732, Gardner .726.
The latter has split his time between left and center, but would likely be the much more preferable defensive replacement for Rasmus.
In on-base percentage, Gardner is slightly better than Skip at .358 to .349, but his strongest attribute is the ability to steal bases. The problem is that skill would be negated at the top of the Cardinals lineup. Even since the acquisition of Holliday, Pujols still leads the league in intentional walks, so a proven base stealer would be wasted in the batting order as currently constructed.
I have to admit that seeing Gardner’s Yankees predecessor, Melky Cabrera, move to Atlanta and struggle reminded me of the fact that New York players can be overhyped.
Westy i must say you are a legend in your own mind.5000 words to dance around the page .Do you get paid by the word ? All that nonsense to say BD only cares about profit and if Colby produces he will get paid.
In the past Brian I have just copied and pasted a link with no trouble. This time, when I did it, my entire post (which was more than just the link) did not post. I tried it 3 times. I could post anything else as long as it didn’t include the link. Never happened before.
I tried to copy and paste the link again and I got a page that said I already posted it. Yet it never showed up. Very strange.
BB–You can look at the data yourself and draw your own conclusions
Link text
Okay now one of my previous posts just disappeared. It was there and now it’s not. I know it is Halloween, but this is ridiculous.
Yea I had 2 or 3 posts never reach the viewing board as well.
crdswmn, I solved your mystery. The posts with links were caught in the site’s spam filter. For grins, I just released all six of them!
RC, I don’t see any of your posts currently hung up, though I recall a few were delayed earlier in the week.
Well then, I made my point with flourish!!! (Makes me look schizophrenic or somethint, though).
Brian, I just didn’t see them directly after I posted them.
B52, You remind me of a story I like to tell about Jesus messing with his disciples as they were camping alongside the Sea of G………………………. you know, the more I think about it, that could easily have me dancing up over the 5000 word barrier of sensibility…………………………….so as not to be rude I guess, to the curious…………… it involved a dodge ball, Mary M’s undergarments……. and a pair of wet sandals……… what a jerk……………… still cracks me up to this day though………………….
Westy you remind me of a CEO or a politician……………………………a whole lot of hot air wrapped around a tiny bit of real information.
Sorry WC i just don`t feel the need for dramatics or riddles every post.
Are you sure there is real information there?
I am sure it is not.
Oh, and, we will not be trading Colby for Carlos Quentin. That would make no sense on every level.
If we do trade Colby, and we won’t, it will be for a significant haul. His value, given his contract situation and that he has yet to reach his upside, is tremendous.
I would love to land Carlos Quentin. In fact, I was pushing for us to go after him when the Sox plucked him – but, at that time, he would have been a Ryan Ludwick-type pick-up. He wasn’t worth a Colby then and he sure as hell isn’t now.
Quentin and Beckham and I might not hang up the phone.
Other than something that improves us in more than one way, you just don’t trade him. It wouldn’t make sense.
I agree Easton on all points.
Beckham for Colby may be something that would help the Cardinals because it would eliminate the problem at 2B, and allow TLR to use Skip as a utility guy at many positions. Heck I have speculated that in something like that went down Skip may find himself as the starting CF, with Craig and Jay as the RF platoon.
Middle infield is a thin spot in MLB now it seems and Beckham is an up and coming star. Hey, you never know how things play out.
But I would just have to believe that any Colby trade would have to include a pretty good middle infielder.