The indefinite waiting to learn of future plans has moved from the manager of St. Louis Cardinals to pitching coach Dave Duncan.
When we last left the Dave Duncan situation, it was prior to the announcement of Tony La Russa’s decision to return for a 16th year at the helm of the St. Louis Cardinals. The pitching coach’s widely-reported remarks included the following.
“The ideal situation would not be to coach in St. Louis for one more year then find another place for two more years,” Duncan told the Post-Dispatch on October 15. “The ideal situation would be to coach three years in the same place.”
Since then, La Russa came back, but only on a one-year deal that may have signaled some indecision in whether or not to offer Duncan his desired three-year commitment. Then, there was the most uncomfortable firing of Duncan’s long-time lieutenant, bullpen coach Marty Mason.
While it was stated that Duncan was ok with the Mason move, I don’t believe he has not been quoted publicly on the matter. It is hard to imagine the no-nonsense pitching coach didn’t have strong feelings about the highly-public sacking.
When La Russa met with the media in St. Louis last Wednesday to discuss his own decision, he seemed to indicate that Duncan’s choice was also very near.
“Mark (McGwire) might decide tomorrow. ‘Dunc’ might decide tomorrow,” La Russa told the Post-Dispatch on the 20th. “But they’re coming at it from different places.”
Perhaps there is nothing more to the delay than the Cardinals wanting to announce their 2011 staff all at once. Still, even if Duncan has no intentions of moving elsewhere, others are very interested in him.
Just about anywhere across baseball, whether the pitching coach job is open or not, the name “Dave Duncan” is being touted as a possible savior. Check any team-oriented message board on the internet from the Yankees on down and you’ll likely find an “I don’t know if we could pull this off, but what about hiring Dave Duncan?” thread.
Though no official interest or interviews have been reported to my knowledge, the persistent buzz includes a couple of the game’s most storied and deep-pocketed clubs.
One prestigious job that is officially coming open today, Monday, is with the Boston Red Sox. Fan interest in hiring Duncan to replace Toronto’s new manager Rick Farrell as the Red Sox’ pitching coach has already made the Boston Globe, though the idea was discouraged.
One team that currently has a pitching coach in Dan Warthen, the New York Mets, is looking to replace both their general manager and the field manager. At least some think scoring Duncan is possible, too. A prominent Mets-focused site mentions Duncan’s past relationship with Sandy Alderson, one of two front-runners to win the team’s GM spot. The article also notes concern over how son Chris Duncan was treated by the organization and a desire by Dave to have a greater say in system-wide pitching instruction as reasons that the pitching coach might bolt.
The longer the Duncan delay continues, the wider the speculation about his plans grow. Even if the McGwire situation remains unsettled, the Cardinals would be very wise to get the uncertainty over Duncan’s future off the table.
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What`s with the Bernie-like headline?If Duncan goes elsewhere the team will survive.I like Duncan and what he does for the team………………..however if he goes elsewhere(unlikely IMO) Cards will get by.
Ouch about the headline comment.
Sorry Brian………………
Just joking back. If that was the worst criticism I would receive, I’d be pretty fortunate.
Much has been said about the relationship of TLR to DD. Little thought is given to the reverse dependency……………………. Seems to me that Tony got Dave a raise last year, and Mo jumped on an option to hold it there…………..if I recall correctly……………………. Both the Cardinals and Tony know that Dave/Tony are inseparable. That being a given, this maneuvering is just tactical. I doubt seriously if it is a salary extortion gambit.
So anyway, It seems to have resolved……………..as my next click suggests…………….
So Dunc and Big Mac are back for another year.
Scuse me. Dunc is back for 2 with 3 year mutual option.
“Hammered out”.???? mutual options???? there was a dialog I’d guess surrounding issues Dave felt represented instability………… I wonder who in the hell wants to brings some new ideas up to the pen? with Dave and Tony “clarifying their needs.
MM????????? one of the hammer strokes????????? No change means that the moves have to come from the front office………………I’m watching with interest at this point.
WC: “….the moves have to come from the front office…”
Hopefully, you are not taken by surprise by that, Westy.
Mo has learned that he cannot address a problem by giving Tony a better alternative. He must leave him no alternative.
Pretty good rundown of last year’s 20 biggest FA signings.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/10/last-years-big-free-agent-deals.html
Great news. TLR is back. Daddy Dunc is back. And Big Mac may be returning. My off-season is off to a great start.
I’m with you Jumbo…….great start to the offseason. Sign Big Mac and its all down hill from there. Nice to have that stability in the coaching staff.
Estatic and elated. One oh so happy camper.
Big Mac may be the best hitter the cardinals sign this off season….
It would make more sense to sign Colby this winter than Albert. Lock him up for the uphill side of his career before he gets too expensive. Look at locking up Albert for the downhill side of his next winter when he’ll likely be less expensive, and we’ll have a better idea about how his health and productivity are going to hold up.
Nice to have DD locked up with the openings in NY and Beantown.
So many of the Cardinal problems from a coaching standpoint were “philosophic stalemates”, that I hardly feel………or share Jumbo’s enthusiasm…………. but hey…….why not. AP will either be playing fat, or hungry………….no gray areas there. I doubt we see the same “optimism from the rotation………but maybe that’s a plus, who knows.
Dave has earned quite a reputation for himself…………………. his approach doesn’t play everywhere. Boston may not have been the city for his pitch to contact concept. Pesky Pole, and the Green Monster ask for strikeouts it would seem. Do you take a rotation like Bostons, with a knuckle baller and risk it?………………….
I can’t help but smile at the memory of Dave’s last few visits to the mound being answered with a few Doubles and Hr’s the very next pitch.
I like him…………… but I’m also aware that he was working behind the scenes with Chris during the decline……… a major contributor in my estimation.
In my opinion…………if they resign Miles……season is over. Backup catcher is decided. Dave/Tony like the way he receives the ball. They need to sign a 3rd baseman making Freese the backup for a year………that would help at 3rd and 1st………and create a strong pinch hit presence….between the two………………..I seen nothing in Greene as a player, sorry.
To be honest……….. this team will get very little help. If they know AP will get enough loot……..they know that he would just as soon be the “big man” on a struggling team….so why should they worry about being pressured.
RC………do you have commercially available hitting video? That might answer a few questions for me…………….. can’t help but think that a Colby trade kills allot birds for Mo/BD……..at this point…………
Not to fear Westie, Mo is not going to re-sign Aaron Miles. Suppan, however, I dunno.
Sorry blingboy, its unlikely Mo will offer Colby a multi-year contract.
Mo will offer Albert a massive deal, but Albert may wait until next winter to ink his next deal. This would heighten the drama. DeWitt will pay through the schnoz.for Albert, out of respect. We are not going to low ball a Hero.
It is possible Mo might bring Miles back as the new bullpen coach. This would be promoting from within.
Little Aaron led the 2010 staff in lowest ERA. Miles has a mean streak, as a relief pitcher.
Who is at first, What is at second, and at third? I don’t know.
Too bad Aaron isn’t a lefty.
Personally, all of the fuss over the Duncan contract years confuse me. Silly bickering aside, the man is highly regarded as the best in the business and has the results to prove it. Just give the man however many years he wants. Why bother making the third year an option? If TLR left, it isn’t as though the new manager wouldn’t want someone like Duncan backing him up.
bling wrote, “It would make more sense to sign Colby this winter than Albert. Lock him up for the uphill side of his career before he gets too expensive. Look at locking up Albert for the downhill side of his next winter when he’ll likely be less expensive, and we’ll have a better idea about how his health and productivity are going to hold up.”
Albert will not get any cheaper bling imo. Once he established 10/5 no trade rights, he became a monster. He will get somewhere between 25-28 million buckos a year for at least 6 years is my guess.
I think Mo will probably offer Colby one year deals………..I wouldn’t look for anything long term.
This article caused me to raise my eyebrows:
http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/10/25/10/Rasmus-slowed-by-strikeouts-in-2010/landing.html?blockID=338311&feedID=3779
So Rasmus isn’t going to worry about striking out, huh? Well, he’d better learn some zone recognition, because pitchers are exploiting it. Fangraphs says in 2010, his swing rate outside of the zone rose from 25.6% (in 2009) to 28.7% while his swing rate within the zone dropped from 73.4% to 71.0%. Opposing pitchers adjusted by decreasing the number of pitches thrown in the strike zone to him from 50.9% to 42.6%. Yikes!
He beat up on fastballs, but got tied up by cutters and particularly curveballs. Throw him junk, watch him swing.
WC wrote, “RC………do you have commercially available hitting video? That might answer a few questions for me…………….. can’t help but think that a Colby trade kills allot birds for Mo/BD……..at this point…………”
At this point…I believe you are correct. In order to have peace in the valley, it seems the prudent thing to do.
Thats the thing Nut, You may not be able to have it both ways. You can either have the higher walk rate and high strikeout totals or the lower walk rate and lower strikeout totals. In other words, like I wrote earlier, Would you rather have a .360 ish OBP and high K totals……………..or a .315 ish OBP and lower K totals?
By the way Nut, The numbers you listed are par for the course for someone who went in trying to work counts better, in order to get his OBP into the .350 range. And if I’m not mistaken, Colby was either one or two on the cardinals in pitches seen per at bat.
I know going into the year his goal was to get the OBP into the .350 range, and he knew that meant the K total would go up substantially. You see, if you are not a good 2-strike hitter you don’t need to get yourself into a bunch of 2-strike counts. So Rains story is BS, Colby went into the season knowing he was going to K more but he also knew he was going to get on base more as well, and that was the goal. Hence the comments about not worrying about K’s.
If you remember in 2009 Colby went a month or two without walking at all, but at the end of the year his K totals weren’t all that high either. If you are worried about K’s then you hack at everything from pitch one on. Don’t take. Like I said, you have to choose which aspect of the game helps or hurts you more.
Does the team benefit more from low K totals and low OBP, or high K totals and high OBP? What do you think?
RC
everytime i read the Colby trade and peace in the valley it makes me angry that 2 grown men can`t sit down and work out their differences for both parties benefit.I just hate the thought of Colby going elsewhere.
RC, you are forgetting that locking up Colby long term could enhance his trade value. Even if Mo isn’t sure Colby should be a Cardinal for the long term, he may try to lock him up for other reasons.
Well I’m not sure CC. The way TLR played it was brilliant imo. Knowing that his team lacked a good bit of offense at different spots, and really having a strong affection for Jon Jay, Tony said this, and did that, and then leaked a trade wish, and voila……………..a hot commodity, Colby Rasmus, is available in a year where there are no real CF options. Contract or not Mo will get to say no quite a bit this winter in regards to Colby. Mo can say Colby is not available but TLR made him available and in high demand. Tony put Mo in a spot to have to say no to offers Mo may very well know would make his team better. That may be a hard thing to do.
TLR is no dummy and rarely if ever gets out foxed.
Not outfoxed unless you count missing the playoffs in three of the last four years, including 2010 when his team was heavily favored, that is…
Mo is unlikely to offer a multi-year deal to Colby, at least this winter. The Cards already have employment control over Rasmus through 2014.
The Cards gave longer deals to Wainwright and Molina, but they play positions that offer higher injury risk, giving incentive to these men to sign and achieve more security.
Jay is a nice extra OF. He does not have the defensive range or arm to be a great defensive CF. But if Tommy Pham were to continue to progress, the Cards could consider a CF platoon of Pham/Jay by 2013.
Well Brian, I can tell you that I fully believe TLR has the desire and the determination to bust his ever loving butt to help his team win in 2011. I doubt he gets outfoxed when it comes to baseball related things.
The problem for TLR is he has a certain way of doing things and he can’t function successfully if you force him to use chess pieces that do not fit his system. TLR cannot adapt and overcome. So why try to make him?
Mo and the cardinals will not be successful if they try to force TLR to go at managing without his style of player imo. The young players don’t excel at the platooning that is the TLR system strength. Give TLR the more veteran guys that he can mix and match and give him a great starting 5 and he will win. Try to make him use all of the younger players and you will most likely see a repeat of 2010.
outfoxed Brian?
I don`t think TLR has control over Penny,Lohse and Freese getting hurt.Schumaker and Ryan playing below previous standards.I don`t think that could be considered “outfoxed”.
Good job, Bw. Its good to try to keep Brian from succumbing to unsound thoughts.
Every team has injuries and players with good years and bad. Whether the manager was “outfoxed” can not be proven, but La Russa’s 2010 team ran out of gas and was considered by most impartial observers as underachieving.
if westbrook is extended in the team exclusive period, colby as a trade chip to help address multiple infield needs, gains traction.
kyle mcclellan to the rotation has the opposite effect. allowing the greater majority of available offseason funds to go towards the infield, while retaining colby. skip for a loogy would be ideal.
the key to this offseasons direction may very well come early, with the decision on a jake using 50-ish % of offseason funds, or not.
bip – disagree with your analysis. signing Westbrook reduces the chances of a Colby trade. It means we cannot trade Colby for a high priced player (Westbrook already took the dough). We also tak ourselves out of the running with teams who have young pitching to offer.
Re Brian’s opinion the Cards were underachieving and TLR was “outfoxed”……….
The two teams in the World Series had winning percentages of .556 and .560. They lost 44 times for every 56 wins. No team broke even a .600 winning percentage during 2010. There is a lot of parity within MLB, fine lines between winning and losing.
Blaming not making the playoffs on TLR reduces a team effort involving a lot of factors to a dispiriting hunt for a few scapegoats.
Happily for me, DeWitt and Mo are bringing TLR, DD, and MM for an encore in 2011. I am elated about the good times ahead.
Payroll for 2011 for Holliday, Pujols, Carp, Lohse, Waino, and Yadi is 71.625 mil. If Westbook is signed for something similar to the deal Lilly just signed with LA, the Cardinals would owe 82.625 to 7 players for 2011.
Now if Westbrook is signed, and the option for Carp is picked up for 2012, the option for Yadi is picked up for 2012, and lets just low ball an Albert signing at 25 million for 2012:
The Cardinals would owe 95.875 million bucks for 2012 for those 7.. Subtract 2 million in deferments for Holliday, 3 million by Albert, 2 million by Carp, and that gives you 88.875 mil for 2012 for 7 players. If the remaining 18 players make 400 K (which they’re not, its gonna be higher)your total payout for salaries would be 96.075 mil.
In other words, unless management is willing to spend more denaro’s the club you see today is more than likely the club that you are gonna have to win with in the next few years.
Addition via trade is the only way to plug holes into this offense.
RC, obviously I’d rather see a higher OBP even if it came with more Ks and especially if it requires the opposing pitcher to burn more pitches. That still doesn’t change the fact that he read pitches less accurately last season. Given his solid totals in the minor leagues, I have to expect continued improvement, but he shouldn’t be happy with his current K/BB ratio.
No, gang, the team should not trade away its budding star CF that it has under salary control for a long time with no replacement in sight. No. It makes no sense. It won’t happen.
“The deal makes Duncan the game’s highest-paid pitching coach, according to sources, affording him a base salary of about $750,000 a season”.
If your curious about climate and direction……….and a coach having his “agent” bang it out. Consider “base salary”. ……………………For a coach, guess what his incentive clauses may be based on………………………………………..there are two other “indicators” in that article of the negotiations.
Well, Jumbo, one seemingly valid criticism of TLR last season was that he overworked his two aces. Carpenter and Wainwright threw for the second and third highest inning totals in the NL in 2010 and faltered down the stretch. Often, this happened because TLR tends to be more interested in padding his players’ stats than in winning ball games.
The real reason to sign Colby long term would be if ine thinks that the stability of a long term contract would result in Colby playing better than he would without such a contract. I’ll leave to our pop psychologist of the site to get inside Colby’s head (without talking to him) and let us know if that would be the case.
Ref comment #39. Jumbo, you suggest I am making TLR a scapegoat. (I already acknowledged back in #36 that being “outfoxed” cannot be proven.) I ultimately hold the manager responsible for the performance of his team. This year, it was underperformance. The Cards were clear favorites but they failed. The year before, the Cubs were favored, but they underachieved and the Cardinals surprised, winning 91 games. Every chapter of every story does not have a happy ending in the real world.
The financial cases shown above by RC only underline the absurdity of even considering trading Colby Rasmus. He is the most productive minimum-salaried player on a team already too heavily-loaded with big salaries.
If trades are needed from a financial perspective, one would think they would dump salary, not add it, as any sane Rasmus trade would surely do.
Nutlaw, re 41, to compete in MLB, teams often have to rely on their best pitchers. If they stayed healthy, as fortunately they did, Wainwright and Carpenter were to collect around 220 innings.
“Often, this happenned because TLR tends to be more intererested in padding his players’ stats than in winning ball games.” What is the reasoning behind your opinion?
In 2009, Wainwright was nosed out for a Cy Young. TLR seemed to want to Adam to reach 20 wins this year, yet shut him down for the last game, when he might have collected his 21st. Health took precedence over stats.
For Carpenter, he is already rich. There is no financial reason to pad his stats. Carp is going to collect even more big bucks in 2011, even if he had done little in 2010. Carp is a leader who does not shy from working for his salary. He stepped up and ate innings in 2010, as befits his enormous salary.
LaRussa leaves his starters in too long during close games in order to make sure that those starters get their best chance to earn a win even if they are tired and the bullpen presents a better option to get the team a win.
He also uses his best reliever not when the game situation calls for it most, but when it will earn him a save. However, since he has convinced the rest of the league to follow suit over the years, I guess he gets a pass.
Its an odd quirk of baseball that a team will use its least effective relievers when one or two runs down. This increases the chance of losing and tends to break games open. But its rational, unless the relievers are equally effective or ineffective. A team invests its best relievers in preserving a win versus risking wasting them in a lost game.
TLR probably uses a pitch count on starters. When they get up around 110-115 pitches, he generally pulls them. If the alternative is more reliance on Dennis Reyes or the dreadful McDougle, I say let Carp try to gain another W.
No, I don’t think that TLR does use a hard pitch count. Ask the guys who actually watch all of the games because you won’t pick that up from a box score. If you have to suggest that Reyes or MacDougal would be brought in to pitch in a close game in order to make your point convincing, you know you’re in trouble.
Furthermore, if you have to re-frame a statement in order to refute it, you run into trouble again. I’m not suggesting that a team should burn its best relievers in losing efforts, am I? I’m discussing closer usage, and the fact that teams burn their best reliever in the ninth inning, rather than in higher leverage situations like with men on base or against the middle of the opposing batting order. That even leaves aside the matter that managers tend to forget the importance of lefty/righty splits once that magical save stat is up for grabs.
Nutlaw, Gameday is nice for recording pitch counts (as well as pitch sequences and velocities).
LaRussa has different pitch counts for different pitchers. Even a few years ago, Suppan seldom got more than 90 pitches, whereas Wainwright, Carpenter, and Westbrook are liable to collect 100-115.
You claim TLR should make more use of relievers. But good relievers are assets too and he will want to be careful about their use. One of the ways Wainwright, Carpenter, and Westbrook are helpful is by pitching further into games. You may choose to see this as padding their personal stats, but if they can eat one more innning, it helps the bullpen and the team’s chances overall.
No. Stop rephrasing my comments so that you can refute them. All I am saying is that Carpenter and Wainwright threw more innings in the NL than anyone but Halladay and were worn out and less effective by the end of the season and that TLR clearly leaves starting pitchers in past when the game situation and reliever availability says that he should for the sole intent of getting the starting pitcher a win.
Disagree if you so choose, but please stop twisting my words and putting them back into my mouth.
If TLR wants to win, then he does it with younger players or not at all. The grizzeled vet platoon manuever doesn’t work. 2010 proved that.
I didn’t want TLR back and the above is precisely why.
I spent all day with 3rd graders so I have no patience with all this nonsense.
Nutlaw, early in the season, Carpenter got rocked for 3 dingers by the Brewers. The game was on a Sunday night, I watched on a tv in a restaurant. Carp had not thrown many innings, at that early point in the season. I wonder how that gets blamed on Tony padding Carp’s stats?
Did the Phils overuse Halladay, in your opinion? Or do Cy Young types simply man-up and take care of business?
Considering the nature and the tenor of this conversation…………..it seems some of you might have speculated on what incentive clause’s Dave’s contract might have…………and more interestingly, what they might be based on?
To underpay a coach and then offer bonus money, aside from playoff shares, as an incentive seems plausible. To pay him more than everyone else, and add mystery incentives………….what is that saying?
The idea is to pay a few hundred thousand extra on the pitching coach, and make it back by getting by with cheeper pitchers.
The hitting/runs data can’t rewrite the fact that our cleanup hitter sucked with RISP most of the season. That and no effective leadoff hitter.
I won’t be surprised if Colby gets a multi-year offer from the Cards. Mo has to percieve the benefits. . . on various levels.
Carp, Garcia, Yadi, and maybe Wainy, were worn out by the end of the season, which didn’t matter. But the idea is for your key guys to have something left for the postseason. We probably wouldn’t have gotten too far. That could be an example of mis-management. Probably Marty’s fault.
crdswmn, you have my sympathy. Third graders are the worst. But they’re not real fast, you probably could have outrun them.
Carpenter $15.5MM
Lohse $10MM
Penny $7.5
Westbrook $11MM
Wainwright dont know maybe $6MM
About $50MM in starting pitchers.
“Cheeper pitchers”? Hello?
Assistant Coaches don’t usually have agents BB…………..Barry Meister handles the boys………..I’m guessing Dave needed someone to point out a few delicacies…..maybe air a few hostilities………..that was no simple negotiation. Obviously certain things needed to be clarified……..especially if someone walked away pissed mid-season…………………I’m guessing there might be a buyout if the whole shebang blows up………………its pretty hard to reach incentive goals if you have no players. His starters ate it this year for obvious reasons………. Incentives could not possibly be based on innings pitched without creating conflicts. ERA? Is he going to be suggesting pulling a hero in early trouble to save his numbers??????………….unlikely to be ERA………………
Sorry Westie, no conspiracy drama here this time. Duncan has had an agent for years. He’s been one of the highest paid pitching coaches for years. He’s had incentives in his contracts for years. One of those incentives has always been………. ERA!
Any delay for clarification might have had to do as much with the club’s side as with Duncan’s. Is he willing to work for a manager other than Tony? Would he accept a consultant role to finish out his contract if a new manager wanted to bring in his own pitching coach? My guess is Duncan wanted assurances on having input to the selection of the new bullpen coach. Despite the uproar in the press, I doubt he cared enough to negotiate any input into how the minor league pitchers are trained.
cc — trading colby for a high priced player should not even be on the table.
it’s the polar opposite of the orgs stated direction to fill the roster around albert, matt, carp, etc., with affordable quality farmhands. colby being the poster boy of that approach. i don’t see that their approach is wrong, and the trading away of ludwicks arb3 salary suggests they are trying to stay on course.
kyle to the rotation, instead of extending jake, better follows that direction. the budget is top heavy enough with out significant increase beyond alberts raise. especially for me, when i can’t see 8 to 9mil difference in jake/kyle as SP’s.
i hope the available funds go towards infield bats as one or two year rentals, until the next wave of freese, m. carpenter, cox is ready to help anchor the everyday lineup around the expensive core players. i hope, because i don’t expect them to ask
Some interesting takes on trade possibilities BIP.
http://atlanta.sbnation.com/atlanta-braves/2010/10/26/1775216/the-colby-rasmus-conundrum-what-will-it-take-for-the-braves-to
Can Infante play a decent middle infield? If so, a pkg of Infante, Kimbrel, Jurrens, and Vizcaino for Colby and Skip I’d do in heartbeat. Don’t know if Atlanta would go that high but they might.
That’s “Jurrjens”.
rc– as usual, the suggested players for rasmus do not address the stl needs i see.
arms and a super-utility is stl’s offseason needs?
for our 3rd best bat who plays a demanding def position?
i think a .222 IsoP in CF is the kind of player stl needs to value by keeping him in the org.
play him till he begs for a day off.
Middle infielder, 4th starter, future closer, young arms, high potential future starter — how many more needs do you want to address?
Of course the Braves would also have to throw in Cory Rasmus to keep RC here and posting
I don’t know BIP. It does seem that Tony and Dave favor arms over hitters, or believe they can control the game more from the pitching side than by the hitting side of the game. The Ludwick trade last year seemed to show their priorities in regards to that.
I believe you have to look at things from TLR’s viewpoint as opposed to a more logical position.
Doubt it……….it was Tony that secured a raise for him after 2008, with the option yr for 2010. They apparently have a family deal with Meister……………..Don’t recall talk of incentives at that time. It usually comes down to playoff shares, which are coaching incentives………..for most, doubling their salaries or more.
Duncan’s ERA incentives have been written about extensively in the PD. Glad to see Westie is no different than the rest of us when it comes to denying realities that dont meet his world view.
My guess is that Cory may have a chance to be involved in the rule 5 draft, so he may not be a Brave for much longer. The Braves have so much quality depth and Cory is behind schedule as far as development goes so they will most definately not protect him. Whether or not he showed enough to warrant being selected in the Rule 5 draft will be answered on draft day.
This last year for Cory was really his first full season pitching since 2006 and he was still a little reluctant to let it fly and just wanted to get back in the swing of things. Actually touched some 95 during the year, but would also be in the high 80′s some. Pretty sure the Braves have higher priorities in terms of players they must protect.
He has gotten back into the weight room already this year as he hasn’t done much of that these last few years while he was rehabbing the shoulder. We are expecting more consistent mid 90′s stuff in 2011.
But one things for sure…Mo would run naked through a crowded mall to make sure Cory didn’t end up a cardinals.
Do you think there is any chance Cory is ready to stick on a major league roster all year?
No chance he would start the year on a Big League Club. He would be involved in the minor league phase of the draft if at all. Now Cory could be added to the AA list but my information is that he has not been to this point.
The AAA and AA Minor League phases, Teams may draft any player not protected by either the 40 man roster or the 38 man AAA reserve list (AAA phase) and the 37 man AA reserve list (AA phase). These prospects can be purchased at the cost of $12,000 and $4,000 respectively, and are not subject to the restrictions of the Rule 5 Draft’s major league phase.
Could Tony have managed the Giants this year?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/10/25/MNGT1G1CHV.DTL
Jumbo
Here are salaries for Cards starters in 2010:
Carpenter — $14.5M
Wainwright — $4.65M
Lohse — $8.875M
Penny — $7.5M (+$1.5M bonus for IP)
Garcia — $400K
Westbrook — $11M
Suppan — $12.75M (we paid him MLB minimum and are on the hook for a $2M buyout)
Hawksworth — $402K
PJ Walters & Adam Ottavino made MLB minimum, $400K
Here’s the outlook for 2011:
Carpenter — $15M
Wainwright — $6.5M
Lohse — $11.875M
Penny — Gone
Garcia — (under team control, non-arbitration eligible, 1-year contract near MLB minimum likely)
Westbrook — Free agent, currently in talks with FO
Suppan — Probably gone
Hawksworth — Still under team control, likely due a modest raise
PJ & Otto — Likely to start in Memphis
Source: Cot’s Baseball Contracts, St. Louis Cardinals
Cory would be a great pick up in the minor league phase. Maybe the Braves are trying to get rid of an outspoken father too
rc– tony’s viewpoint has already been tested by acquiring jake. who wants a replay of 2010 second half?
we didn’t win behind jake due to a lack of run production, while he pitched fine.
the rosters needs isn’t arms and a super-utility, for me, especially not at the expense of colby.
Put them up………..I’ll read them…………
RC…….SB nation article????????????? the gay press attacks Bruce B??????????????
CC, As far as the Braves know Cory doesn’t even have a father. Never have even been on a Braves blog or anything as far as I know. No need to.
No need to????????? I would seriously align myself with the side that’s going to win the war. That’s BD’s side. Lie low against the coming storm. The privilege you have had here, being a BD’s poster boy, is more important than you will ever realize………………. A chance to face some important issues. Guaranteed at bats regardless of performance. I see Colby having a 50/50 chance of being in the big leagues in 5 yrs………………Paydays only come to players that are marketable for those salaries…………….. Shave the beard, crease the hat………set up to deal with outfield challenges, and shut up………………….. the only way Colby is traded is if BD can make money by doing it. I don’t see his value being that high. Survive Tony, and that’s coming……….. become a BD poster boy, and he will buy up some of those years to spite Tony…………. Get caught in the middle and in a slump, no money invested showing any longer……….you can just disappear.
50% chance to still be in the big leagues in five years? Someone is feeling more pessimistic than normal…
I’d give it a 95% chance that in 5 years that Colby will be making more money than most of us will see in several lifetimes!
He may already have. After all, he made his first million at the aqe of 18.
Picture this, Cards trade Colby for a better supporting cast, then Albert walks.
Or this, Cards trade Colby for a better supporting cast, then Albert and Matt are in and out of the lineup like thirty something guys often are.
Or Albert’s BA drops another 20 pts again next year, and again the year after that.
Or Albert says now that Coby’s gone you don’t have any boppers but me and Matt, I want 30 Mil for ten years or you don’t have any but Matt. Good luck.
Then try this one, Colby out OPSs both of them next year.
RC: “As far as the Braves know Cory doesn’t even have a father.”
Hardy-har-har, RC, that’s a good one.
Colby has gifts gang. He also has issues. Those high priced signings are arriving in waves every year…………….. marketing youth is always the best investment………… My scouting report had him as an automatic challenge for base coaches. His hitting problems speak for themselves……..he has speed but can’t steal a base……he has speed but won’t press for position on a catch using that speed.
Everyone sees Cardinal players as undeveloped………………somebody thought they were going to straighten Ankiel out……….right…….Ludwick will take us to the playoffs……right…
Colby is in the Catbird seat………….he is being given the chance to become a high profile player…………he isn’t one right now………….if they don’t cover center with another player………he has DeWitts backing. Mo/BD have won every battle with regulating Tony depth chart…………..if Tony doesn’t get what he wants, he is going to try to show up BD, not making apologies and protecting his interests……….. Colby does not have this thing whipped……….I’m with RC…………he knows the big dollars aren’t coming in St Louis………….. he will eventually be traded……….this is the place to make it an important trade……….so that the other teams sacrifice makes him a protected investment…………….. 3 players from Atlanta including a starter…………sober up. You guys are reading too much PR hype………………..Tony isn’t going to let Colby take 500hr swings for 25 hr this year…………. RC….the flak that’s going up is showing both sides the target…….if BD pushes and Tony challenges there’s trouble……………if you are up to challenging Tony by shutting his mouth……………you’re going to get the payoff. Get to work…..its a good life. You’re not there yet.
After spending an entire day with 3rd graders I have even less sympathy for Colby than I did before.
WC……….so you say there are going to be possible troubles with regards to who is on the roster vs. who is wanted on the roster?
Shocker!!
I know you’re a chess player RC. The board is complex. There is allot of tension stored in various pieces………………. don’t get caught up in a bloodbath exchange. Become a key pawn on the winning side. Don’t be confused about which color you represent or what piece you represent ………………….Like running a player back to the bag without an out………..it happens when you “think” you understand whats going on………………when you’re actually trying to find comfort in a hostile situation……………….He thought that uniform coming into third was a Ranger…….wanted to think………..because it was a cool and powerful position to be in………………..
You have fun…..after you sign the paper……..when your problems become their problems……
this is no time to look for fun….comfort……….no time to validate a philosophy that seems true or inspired…………
Watch how Hamilton gets from his ready position to his load……….. very early, very extended, lots of time to adjust his swing plane………..that would be a good model for young Colby at this point………….it will create events that raise value…………. watch Torrey Hunter play center, or Victorino………… make a show using the time you win for yourself by having the speed to arrive early…………..you can sell that time………..for money………….. show the arm often, people pay to see it…….it discourages a challenge……….you can sell that. etc, etc……. make Tony your whipping boy……………he is vulnerable……….truth be known, he has lost his nerve and his edge. He is just bait for a Pujols maneuver…………..a tethered goat……….the most dangerous kind though because he has horns still. Dave protected himself with Tony’s acknowledgment………….right out of ” Lonesome Dove’….. or Redford and Newman… taking on the Bolivian army……almost.
I doubt RC is anyone’s pawn!