One theory suggests Tony La Russa should not sign a one-year contract to return to the St. Louis Cardinals. I disagree with the logic.
In the Post-Dispatch on Saturday, columnist Bernie Miklasz returned to a topic he has weighed in on previously over the years – the duration of St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa’s contract.
Miklasz again offers his view that La Russa being in lame duck status every season has a negative effect on the team, eroding his authority and hurting player motivation.
His solution? Miklasz believes that if La Russa returns to the club for 2011, he should sign a multi-year contract of at least two and possibly three years.
I disagree, much more with the supporting logic than I do with the conclusion itself. I don’t think the contract duration matters.
Here’s why. At 66 years of age and after repeatedly hinting his managerial end is near, La Russa will continue to be a lame duck until the day he finally announces he no longer wants to manage, contract or not. The only question in the interim is how lame.
As Miklasz admits in the article, La Russa always has the option of retiring. Therefore the annual threat/fear of him leaving is not altered by him having a contract for the next year.
If the clubhouse is not fully motivated and some players have tuned La Russa out, a piece of paper that says 2012 or 2013 instead of 2011 isn’t going to be a positive factor, in my opinion. It may not matter at all, or in some cases, the converse might even be argued.
In at least the last four years and perhaps longer, the just-retired Bobby Cox entered each season with no deal in place for the next year. He continued to manage under a series of one-year extensions with the Braves until announcing prior to the 2010 season that it would be his last. If there were concerns in recent years coming out of Atlanta that Cox’ plans were impeding the team’s results on the field, I never heard them.
Certainly the subject is unavoidable. At this juncture of La Russa’s career and considering the uncertainties he injects into the process, the questions will return every summer and fall about the manager’s plans for the upcoming season. Those questions will come from his players, the fans and the media alike.
All a multi-year contract would accomplish is to legally allow the Cardinals to restrict La Russa from managing elsewhere.
Let’s face it. That “security” is pretty much worthless.
If La Russa approached ownership and was firm in his view that he no longer wanted to manage the Cardinals, would they force him to stay against his will? Of course, they wouldn’t. They would release him from his contract.
While no one fully understands La Russa’s value system, might making a multi-year commitment up front cause him to feel an obligation to stay through the entire term, even if he has a change of heart later? Would it be good for anyone if La Russa stayed on for years two and three if he was no longer fully committed to the job?
Further, the Cardinals may want to keep their options open by not committing to multiple years of La Russa. The club has finished weakly in each of the last four years, with just one post-season berth earned despite a very competitive core of players. In addition, there has been enough off-field controversy surrounding the skipper in recent years to warrant caution going forward.
Though not mentioned by Miklasz, some suggest that one potential benefit of an extended La Russa deal would be a demonstration to Albert Pujols that the organization is planning stability into at least the first year of the superstar’s potential free agency.
I don’t buy that logic as Pujols has to understand the reality. No matter what, La Russa will not be his manager for the vast majority of his new contract. I believe there is a wide variety of other far more important factors in Pujols’ upcoming decision.
Bottom line, I don’t see how a multi-year contract for La Russa makes a positive difference, while perhaps actually limiting flexibility.
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TLR needs to sign a two year deal because thats how long St. Louis will allow him to continue to manage the Cardinals IMO. I believe the Cards want TLR to secure the second position in all time wins while wearing the Cardinals uni. I think that would be a fitting end to TLR’s career with his finishing his managerial career with the Cardinals. And I believe everyone will make that happen.
Albert wants TLR back…TLR wants to come back….end of discussion. Albert does exactly what he wants..when he wants….and how he wants to do it under TLR…why would Albert wish for that to end? When you are the best player in the game that right comes with your production. The next manager may not allow that type of stuff to take place and Albert knows this. See Fredi Gonzalez treatment of Hanley Ramirez. The cash cow needs to remain happy and should be.
Those two things IMO make it a definite lock that TLR will be back for two years at the head of the Cardinals.
Unfortunately I don’t believe TLR’s method….without change….will do much more than repeat the results of this year. A team on fire out of the gate that tails off toward the break….picks it back up after the break and tails off big time at the end…….Mentally exhausted.
But I, like BD and Mo, know there is no other way for it to shake out. TLR’s and Alberts joined at the hip friendship allows for TLR to basically call the shots until Albert’s decision regarding his future is finalized.
No need to fight fate.
Nothing TLR does is by accident.
Step one…..finalize TLR contract…….
Step two…..let the trades begin to rid the team of the problems.
So we get two more disappointing seasons. Yeah.
I love your rhetoric RC. It reminds me of some of the back room political speeches in “Gone with the Wind’. Someone is trying to raise the troops, and I, (Clark Gable) stand by smirking, sympathetic and yet savoring the obvious “profiteering” opportunities they represent.
Ask yourself these questions?
Do you think that Tony is unaware of the complexities in AP’s posturing?
Last years holdout brought? a nice option year for Dave as I recall………….
Tony knows that he is the main ingredient in most all of the recipes calling for “goat meat” that is lying open on BD’s coffee table………….he has been marinating since I arrived here. Tony is thinking “mountain goat” I would guess…………. If you climb high enough you can escape most danger.
The Colby issue is right before you RC……….what he has represented as a (chew toy) or (gilded ram) etc etc………….is very much the center of whats going on…………
Tony probably can’t believe he wasn’t shown the door after another collapse…..pretty much caused by not having players who could deal with his coaching style…(the work of BD/Mo)………… I’m sure he is aware of some of the circumstances that might be holding him in this job. A tether pulls both ways when a conflict arises. Wouldn’t Tony be still struggling to find a team he could work with? Does that include the enigmatic Colby do you suppose?………………….. Colby has been prepared for sale……….in an attempt to create cause with out damaging his gilded status in the last months of the season. That whole stink was so contrived……..in timing and delivery, that it obviously why Colby became a momentary (symbolic) casualty in the “Tony / BD tug of war………………..
My advise……………. Colby has had a protected status for years………BD has been his guardian.
It has helped him survive a very competitive and potentially corrosive environment………..
Considering some of Colby’s personal challenges, I’m not so sure I would be that hungry to lose that “guardianship” before he is ready…………… too many question marks surrounding his “vulnerabilities”…………….. I would guarantee that his asking price and his market value reflect a wide variety of opinion…………….he is for sale right now………a topic in the Tony/BD negotiation?
Undoubtedly………..both as a player……and a symbol of ownerships intrusion into “on field operations” in negotiations long since swept under rug of Tony/BD discord……………… Tony is testing his “weight” “value” in current negotiation……….. BD sees the time is clicking down in NY. …….round coming to an end? If Tony walked……….is that really a fear for BD? if he wasn’t intending to keep Albert…………why would it be? Something tells me Tony sees that BD has a plan, and that he is part of it………………….. why not press for concessions in their long brewing struggle?
(post Joccetty)……………….
If BD loses…………..Colby will be traded to create the expected changes……………he isn’t going to be spending any money………..the only “sure bet” we could make…………..
Crdswmn………Disappointing? No way. The Cardinals have Albert Pujols..(the best player in the game today), Matt Holliday..(one of the top players in the game)..Adam Wainwright..(one of the top pitchers in the game)..Chris Carpenter and Jaime Garcia..(two really good pitchers) and a boat load of solid up and coming player.
I would think to get to watch TLR make history by finishing his career as a cardinals and finish that career as the second winningest manager to ever manage would be exciting. And to get to continue to watch Albert set new marks for awesomeness every year by adding to his historical start can’t be disappointing.
The Cardinals and the Reds will get to battle it out for the next few years and that will be exciting so it will be Cardinals baseball like it has been for the last 10 years.
WC….If TLR is manager of the Cardinals he should be surrounded by the players that he prefers……..and that is what he is trying to do, get Mo to cooperate. I respect that decision by him. Mo should help in doing that very thing and not try to buck him.
RC……….BD was busy for the first 12+ years of his ownership. The nature of his work, and the necessities of his personal belief systems had made him quite a “character” in the world at large. As his kindred marshaled their resources after the rape of the civilized during the reign of G.Bush, the late 60′s gentlemen turned to “new challenges”…………….. a sporting pastime………….making money using a tried and true methodology………………….. He is the GM………………Mo is just his sense organ, absorbing all the unpleasantness that goes with “running” this business…………………….
BD has gained my respect more than any Cardinal player or coach…………he is a gamer. And Lucky, if you believe in such things.
Now that Union and Management have discovered the pleasantries and the flexibility of just splitting up the profits garnered through ownerships market fixing……… the settlement of their collusion grievances…………… what new possibilities await? Lozano has taken high ground and is preparing to do battle……even knowing this was coming…………… I’m watching with interest only now. I’ve got mine. Don’t you get caught in a battle in which your are only foot soldier. Best to watch from safe ground……………….
I don’t like to be a censor, but I removed a sentence from comment #6 as it was off color.
Ref comment #5, RCW, doesn’t the manager report to the GM? Shouldn’t the GM assemble the roster and the manager manage it? I understand with TLR’s tenure that his opinion should carry weight, but it shouldn’t be the overriding voice, IMHO.
A general question based on RC comment #4, do folks here think the average fan cares about TLR becoming the #2 manager of all time? I know it is important to him personally, but I really wonder if it matters to the average Joe. My experience is that fans want titles.
Thanks Brian……….Fellini’esk to be sure, but so appropriate..
It unfortunately would also explain your theory that somehow Tony doesn’t recognize Mo’s almost birthmark. There is talk surrounding team needs……………do you really think that Tony has no better idea of whats available in the market place…………and what makes it available? Ludwick was history when he took them to the door at his first arbitration hearing……… they avoided it on the second for a number of reason I would guess. I know how the Westbrooke deal was run. SD wasn’t essential there……….. but they were the only out for our salary bail. Cleveland would of taken a AA prospect from us………but that doesn’t solve a problem, with its stigma. Look who is wearing it……….because BD wouldn’t spend a dollar………….. Tony is taking care of some business. He wants some security for his staff even if he gives it up. You can’t tell me DeWitt is anxious to negotiate for AP………..he is staying on track, and Tony is a necessary player in this………….thus all the fire buckets being tossed to hinder the Mets deliberation. Tony isn’t talking…………..he’s a player……
I believe Cardinals fans are more in tune with the history of the game than many groups of fans in the MLB, and therefore like for an organization they consider theirs to be part of historical milestones for either players or managers. So….I think that the majority will enjoy the race for second place in managerial wins these next two years.
In the same respect, I believe Cardinals fans want to keep Albert as part of their organization for Alberts entire career, even though the team would arguably be better off if you traded Albert for a handful of prospects and signed a Werth and a Crawford type caliber of player with the same money they were going to give Albert. But I’m sure Cardinals fans can’t see the larger picture when it comes to someone who has a chance to be a HOF player leaving St. Louis regardless of the chances of winning a World Series increasing with that happening. Just my take.
Without some sort of major overhaul or increase in payroll this Cardinals team, is not going to win any World Series championships any time soon so the best a cardinals fan can hope for is to enjoy the managers win total increasing to second all time and Alberts continued record setting dominance in the game.
ouch!!!!!!!!!!!RCcccccccccccccc aren’t you enjoying the real teams playing……….I love baseball like this…….I’m a Giants fan I guess, even though I love the Phillies………….. Texas closer can’t close in NY. It may end there.
I hope some others weigh in, but I just can’t see where TLR finishing #2 in all-time wins vs. #3 matters much to anyone except him. Other than maybe during the week when he gets the mark sometime in mid-summer 2012, it isn’t going to sell any more tickets or drive more TV viewership.
Certainly Albert’s exploits are another matter as they do have long-term appeal. I wasn’t yet following the team in the latter stages of Musial’s career, but there may be parallels unless they can alter their trajectory.
I’m a Phillie fan WC, have been since I played for the Phillies as a 9 yr old. Michael Jack Schmidt was my favorite player growing up. Then my good friend and former teammate Ruben Amaro Jr. became GM of the Phillies so I pull for them. Interesting discussions..he and I have had about a lot of this baseball stuff.
He has been great RC. Almost buried that team early in the year though with the trade Werth stuff. He would stink in St Louis………probably just quite…………all the teams in the playoff made moves and took chances……………. all of them. Berkman as pinch hit DH? Look at Texas and and SF, let alone the Ozwalt move for Philly………
I think your right Brian…………..why should fans care about a coach’s record. In my experience, Tony has been out coached from a technical stand point …….often………..its his attempt to pressure players without any depth that has kicked his butt.
A clarification;
A player like John Jay, with his very odd bat play (ridiculous) only really comes into focus at times. He was hitting 400 when they traded Ludwick……….. in the Zone……….without playing time pressures, he amplified his personal style to compensate for his higher stressed, (more exposed) responsibilities. He faded immediately. Adjustments weren’t even tried until it was over. They had him try to sweep back from a more uniform position………..a realistic attempt by coaches…………………but hardly brilliant, or effective.. Cardinals were mediocre concerning these types of challenges……….. the trade grounded him………. predictable……….how not? To save a few million…………….we aren’t even game at the playoff level.
WC, Jay is not a .400 hitter. Even if Ludwick had remained, he would have returned to Earth even if he had the best coaches on the planet.
Ref #7: Just win, baby. Individual stats are something to look back on sitting around the hot stove. Managerial all time wins, pshawww. Pu-lease, 1 in 100 gives a darn. Career hitting stats like Albert persues, OK, but you gotta win today’s game. That’s what Joe sixpack bought a ticket for.
The value of the team has more than tripled in the 15 years Bill has owned it. The Cardinals brand enjoys national prominence out of proportion to its flyover country mid-market. Cable TV is taking off, new radio voice with reach. Pujols, Holliday, Wainy, Carp, Yadi, Tony, Dave, Mac, Cy candidates, MVP candidates, rookie of year candidates. Bill knows what he’s doing. Sitting out the post-season doesn’t fit. 3 years out of 4 really doesn’t fit. The pattern RC points out, last two years, coming into the stretch, and Tony and Albert’s posse rides off into the sunset, that doesn’t fit. Tony won’t be back unless Bill is satisfied. Why? Because he knows nobody cares about a loser. Nobody that matters that is.
My .$02? As a fan, I don’t care about TLR’s ego trips including his number of games won if the team does not win championships. The Cardinals can keep Albert and win championships. How? Cough up the money. They have it, spend it. Is it going to happen? Probably not. But then I won’t be buying any more tickets either.
It’s a shame WC can’t communicate like a normal person as I’m sure there is something interesting in there somewhere. It appears to me he is flip flopping every other post between BD wont be re-signing Albert to he will be re-signing TLR to make sure Albert stays. I guess that will allow him to be right and repost the correct parts later to boost his ego as he is prone to do.
good point about the lack of drama with Cox. I agree that it is Tony who creates the annual drama and that wont change with the length of contract.
If one thinks Tony and TLR are really united at the hip, I guess it would make sense to sign Tony to a 2-3 year deal to try to gain one more little edge in the Albert race. That assumes you think that that is a good move (of which I am becoming less and less convinced).
Regarding #7, yes the manager works for the GM and should work with the players given but since the GM hires the manager and the players it seems a smart one would put together a mix that is compatible.
I dont think Cards fans care about TLR setting any record (other than championships) as a Cardinal. Another manager they might be but not TLR.
Growing the brand requires two things:
1. A cast of characters that draws interest nationally, and in particular the east coast.
Check.
2. Winning, including an impressive post-season presense.
Che . . . . , Uh, well.
Bill knows this is a problem. A critical problem. He will not hire Tony unless he is satisfied that this problem will not continue to be a problem. How can I be so sure? Because there is no point paying the big bucks for the cast of characters if they are sitting at home right now.
“WC, Jay is not a .400 hitter. Even if Ludwick had remained, he would have returned to Earth even if he had the best coaches on the planet.”
Not the point…………..he may have continued to produce…………..Rasmus may have been forced to keep up…………..Ludwick may have improved under pressure……….
The best coach in the world would have addressed the real problem………….by recognizing it for what it was…………………… when ML pitching targets excessive motions and timing devises…..you’re history. As good as Holiday is…..look what they did to his high leg kick………..when the competition was hot and heavy……….he lived out in front of everything, forced to step down on a guess. On the hands………off speed….caught him low and away over and over…………..
Brian………..I’m considering leveling a devastating psychological attach against Brazil……….I’m liable to push the civilized standards of your blog to its limits I’m afraid………….but I feel its necessary at this time as I’m losing patients with his masochistic desire for punishment. I may reconsider if you assure me that you will address this problem yourself. You cannot have it both ways. It is your business.
You are easily sidetracked Westy. CC is one of the cool kids from the main site. Nothing wrong with that, I’m sure he’s earned it. He can drag you into the tunnell for a scolding if he wants. Complaining? Seeking protection from bullying? You’re wasting your time. Suck it up, in one ear and out the other, grab your glove, get back out there. There’s a game on.
I’ve read and re-read the part of today’s Tony article about the “dry powder” approach that Mo loves so much. Tony doesn’t like it, he’s blaming it for the lack of results. Wants the Mo to be more proactive.
The real news is in the Fox freeze out on the east coast BB……….its a nationwide power play.
I’m losing my appetite for this BB. I have my own blog now. I may allow an expanded usage.of it.
I’ve been following that too, Westy. The Times had a good article on it today. Things to come. Everything starts on the coast, gets here eventually. As a kid, I got by with radio a lot.
I googled “………………..” and found Westie’s blog.
WC, I am sure Brian will have no problem with you commenting specifically in response to what I posted on the blog here as I did when referencing you. And I’m a big boy, I wont run off if someone points out my inconsistencies, faults in logic, or failure to support my arguments.
This is a place where discussing the Cardinals is encouraged. Of course that means we won’t always agree. Disagreeing with positions is different than personal attacks. As long as we can be civil adults, there shouldn’t be issues.
Jumbo, You normally hide your humorous side but that cracked me up……….and I dont……….even mind……..Westie’s writing……….style.
bb, I missed the tunnel reference at first read. That was icing to Jumbo’s post.
CC, Go easy on ol WC, he is a staunch democrat in its most liberal form. I, being from Alabama, am as Rebublican in most of my views as one can get and that being said, enjoy watching Bill Maher whenever I can, who is as anti republican as one can get. So I can have my views and still can enjoy someone who has a 180 degree opposite approach to their world view. WC kills George Bush on a regular basis, and I voted for him ….and would again but I love reading WC and get a kick out of his beating GW to a pulp.
If you can’t read WC’s theories and enjoy them for what they are then I believe you are missing out on the entertainment value of WC’s ability to morph one view into a totally different thought and theory at the drop of a hat. Mel Gibson in conspiracy theory.
Then I visualize the movie Slingblade, and the shots of the mental patients and their interaction with Karl and around him when I enter this blog. I see WC as the mental house inmate Charles Bushman telling Karl his stories with a sexual twist. Funny stuff. WC gives us Mel Gibson with a mix of Bushman from Slingblade………..how can you beat that?
in most all orgs, the gm has the overriding vote over the manager. the chris duncan trading showed me, when he deems necessary, Mo will drop the hammer and do what is best for the roster in his opinion.
but, i also believe he yields to larussa’s wishes (kennedy/schumaker), when tony takes a firm position on his players available. it looks to be a give and take, while trying to show tony the respect he has earned. he has the owners favor afterall.
skip for a reliever, it’s chris duncan time again. i don’t want to see skip lead stl in starts at 2B for the third straight season. off the roster, or skip will wind up right back at 2B w/tony as the manager. Mo needs to step in here.
Jumbo…………I try to throw some of this……………….and that” ” ” ” into my stuff when I think of it………who cares?
Lets be honest, WC is the nostradamus of this blog. There are predictions galore. And WC is willing to amend his earlier predictions when the need arises. His thoughts are flexible.
Jumbo is the one blogger who I believe actually believes his opinions are correct all the time, with most of his writing’s dripping with condescension. But I know it is tough when you are way up high and you are dealing with the commoners. I don’t speak with my dad but if I did I just have to believe he would be like Jumbo.
I will take that as a “permission” Brian………heads up………..
I didn’t agree to anything. Please keep the comments civil, everyone. Thank you.
Let’s all…….get along……..shall we? Leave the………egos………some where else…….
TLR makes $4+MM, Mo makes less than $1MM. TLR carries a lot of influence within the organization. He likely championed adding Mulder, Holliday, Penny, and Westbrook. The Cards roster is often shaped to conform with TLR’s wishes.
OTOH, TLR does not get his way on everything. TLR wanted to keep Rolen, but lost. TLR acted like he wanted to keep Chris Duncan. Though they respect TLR, sometimes DeWitt and Mo do things TLR does not like.
Here is a strange possibility. I shall explain how I get to it. I figure TLR would prefer Jay as a backup OF, rather than in a RF platoon. If so, the Cards would be in the market for a left swinging RF. Don’t be surprised if the Cards sign Rick Ankiel to a 1 year deal for $1MM come January 2011. Ankiel can do a good job defending RF and Tony loves D. Ankiel has the requisite power. TLR genuinely likes Rick and thinks that his hitting problems are “fixable”. Last winter, Boras was able to sell Rick to the Royals as an everyday CFer, making him too pricey for the Cards. Ankiel is going to command less in 2011. Meanwhile the Cards lost Ludwick and might be able to use someone with Ankiel’s qualities in RF.
If TLR is back, he is going to lobby Mo to get him more veterans. TLR wants Memphis players to dominate AAA. He is grudging about inexperienced ML players. In a perfect world, TLR does not want to rely on putting Jay and Craig in a RF platoon and let’s see what happens in 2011.
Kumbaya!
Good for BD and Mo, TLR formally announced as returning for 2011 with his staff intact minus Marty Mason. Now Mo can worry about building Tony’s team.
Questioning the integrity of the player development pipeline? A bull pen coach can’t do that I guess. Mo seems to have questioned it, and downsized Luhnow’s empire. Tony, that goes without saying. Best wishes to Marty.
RC, is it true Colby has assumed the fetal position?
I’m stocking the shelter and gassing up the generator again.
Colby is in the Bahama’s for a few weeks and my guess is he is laying on the beach slurping on a shirley temple.. I can’t imagine Mo trying to jam those two together for another year as it just seems like a recipe for groundhog day but thats what they pay Mo the big money for. To make those decisions.
Yeah, I’m sorry to hear that Marty Mason won’t be retained. I’d always heard positive things about him.
I also don’t care about TLR’s all time win record as anyone can get wins if they manage long enough. Getting back to the playoffs would be nice, however.
Jumbo, I’m not rising to your Ankiel bait.
Congratz to Big Mac for coming back to lead the attack. Imagine how bad the offense would have been this past season without help from MLB’s bestest batting coach.
Nutlaw, you like me to be edgy. RCW thinks I look down on him for being a lowly commoner. C’est la vie, RCW. Pretentious? Moi?
Don’t you go changing Jumbo to please me. I’ve stated many times you are a key cog in this blog as far as I’m concerned. Like I just wrote, I don’t speak with my dad so I feel like I’m getting that dad like lecture at least on a weekly basis from you when I show up.
TLR is coming back? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you!!
Bleh.
Bad news Jumbo, Joe Strauss tweet:
According to TLR, McGwire “really torn” about return as hitting coach. (Family reasons.) My guess: He doesn’t.
about 1 hour ago via Echofon
Retweeted by 13 people
crdswmn, you can do a ‘bleh’ for me too.