Considering from every angle the actions the St. Louis Cardinals could take with rehabbing pitcher Kyle Lohse.
My most recent prior post, a tongue-in-cheek shot at the top 10 reasons why Kyle Lohse doesn’t want to make a fourth rehab start, did raise some questions about what the St. Louis Cardinals might do with their rehabbing hurler.
In a return to seriousness, I will lay out as many possible alternatives as I can think of and I know if I forgot any, readers will remind me.
Return to the MLB rotation. The case likely preferred by the vast majority is for Lohse to pitch effectively enough to return to the major league rotation. Barring any other injuries, it would be at the expense of Jeff Suppan. The next step in locking that down would be for Lohse to pitch effectively for Triple-A Memphis in Reno Tuesday night.
Remain on rehab assignment. This is not an indefinite option, as a rehab stint for a pitcher has a maximum window of 30 games. Lohse pitched in his first rehab outing on July 26.
Return to the DL. Of course, if Lohse encounters any physical problems following his unique forearm surgery, he could return to the disabled list and then start another rehab assignment. Rinse and repeat as necessary. To date, there have been no public reports of any lingering injury concerns, I should point out.
Return to MLB as reliever. Another option would be to put Lohse in the major league bullpen and keep starting Suppan as the number five as infrequently as possible. Given Lohse’s salary and status, this would seem to be a low-odds, interim move at best.
Option to the minor leagues. This is another very unlikely possibility. First and foremost, a player with five or more years of service time (Lohse has over eight) is not obligated to report. Given Lohse’s concern about even making a fourth rehab start in the minors reinforces the unrealistic nature of this thought.
Further, if Lohse is asked and doesn’t want to go, he could immediately declare himself a free agent. The rub is that in doing so, he would void his current contract. That would be leaving a lot of moolah on the table, between $26 and $27 million by my rough estimation. I would be pretty confident in calling the chance of any option scenario reaching the light of day as zero.
Release or designate for assignment. The Cardinals are no more likely to release Lohse. They would be obligated to pay his entire remaining salary and receive nothing in return. It would be an extremely short-sighted move, especially given the unusual surgery and unknown recovery history.
Let go via waivers. August is the time of year when organizations routinely pass their players through waivers to see what interest is out there. Lohse is the kind of player who would likely be unclaimed due to his uncertain health status and large contract dollars remaining.
In the unlikely event a club did claim Lohse, the Cardinals could let him go, with the claiming team required to assume his entire remaining contract obligation. They could also try to work out some kind of trade with the claiming organization or revoke the waivers and keep Lohse.
Waiver trade. A very interesting, but again low odds scenario would be to essentially trade Lohse to another club with a high-salaried infielder, say a third baseman. Of course, one element of what makes this unlikely is that the third baseman would have had to previously clear waivers (or been claimed by the Cardinals), not to mention requiring the other team’s needs and money to line up. Then there is Lohse’s full no-trade protection, which would probably have to be bought out.
This could be worked on with the claiming club, but more likely with any one of 29 other teams should Lohse pass through waivers unclaimed. While this might look ok on paper perhaps, in reality…
Even if Lohse cleared waivers, the most probable case would be that nothing external would happen.
Did I miss anything?
Again, the purpose of this exercise was to consider all the possibilities for Kyle Lohse for the remainder of this season. Many of them have little to no chance of happening.
Lohse can take control of his destiny by pitching so well the Cardinals would want nothing more than for him to rejoin their rotation and help lead them into the playoffs.
What actually happens of course remains to be seen.
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Tuesday lineup from FOX Sports Midwest:
Lopez 3B, Jay RF, Pujols, Holliday LF, Rasmus CF, Molina C, Skip 2B, Garcia P, Ryan SS
Tony has been consistent with his lineup in the last few games. What has gotten into him?
Reds lineup
Phillips 2B Janish SS Votto 1B Rolen 3B Gomes LF Heisey RF Stubbs CF Hernandez C Cueto P
The matter concerning Kyle Lohse is a confounding case of putting the best spin on unrequited good faith. While we can point to the one good season as an indicator that Lohse may be able to eventually “rejoin their rotation and help lead them into the playoffs”, we have every reason to believe that he will continue to complement an unpredictable full recovery with behavior which is in accordance with his demonstrated character traits (narcissism and denial). He’s got his fortune and he’s got the Cardinals in a baffling lurch. We need to simply keep our hopes in line with reasonable expectations. Because of his unpredictability, it appears that Suppan is “in like flint” (spelling as an occasional 5th Starter and being available for bullpen duty).
Wow, consecutive posts about a mediocre pitcher on the DL!
History says that Lohse gets the benefit of the doubt. Tony and the Cards usually go out of the way to accommodate veterans. I don’t see why that would change. I agree with Lohse to a certain extent that you have to look at his rehab somewhat like ST. Players often struggle in the Spring as they work on things but do fine once the regular season starts.
If this were not the tail end of the season I would not worry so much about putting Lohse back in the rotation. The Cardinals cannot afford now to have a primadonna pitcher in their rotation who can’t produce results. I wasn’t keen on Lohse before he went on the DL. What to do with him is a conundrum.
So Cincinnati doesn’t approve of us getting 7 runs in a single inning, while they are being shut-out: May it be that we should be so “inconsistent” again tonight! I believe that Jaime can get us through 6 innings, while giving-up no more than 3 ER (the bare minimum for a “quality start”). Would it then be too much to ask that our bullpen should give-up only 1 additional run in 3 innings and that our offense should score a grand total of 5? Under such a reasonable scenario, we would win this second game by a score of 5 to 4…
It is quite natural that Reds fans would be exuberant. They have a good team and a big shot at the playoffs, something they haven’t had in a long time. I don’t begrudge them their excitement or their confidence in their team. But, defending the behavior of Brandon Phillips is beyond the pale. Being competitive is one thing, yelling obscenities about the opposing team to a reporter is quite another. It is a good thing that Carp did not know about the remarks until after the game, or Brandon Phillips “would be looking for another ribcage” as one reporter put it, and Carp would have been out of the game.
Sorry, CC, but I couldn’t get excited about a Jim Edmonds or Brandon Phillips piece.
When Westy gets back from “sniffing around” in Reno, maybe we will have a better sense of where Lohse is in his rehab.
crdswmn – I doubt it but I’m sure we’ll get lots of cryptic conspiracy theory stories and a whole psychobabel breakdown of what’s going on with the situation
CC- I’m sure it will be interesting nevertheless.
Maybe Jaime will give Brandon a shave. . .
Lohse returns to the rotation as long as he’s healthy. I wouldn’t doubt that for a minute.
Wow, the sun must be brutal. Hope Matt doesn’t have problems.
Nice to start with a manufactured run.
I’m still nervous about Jaime.
57, be sure to catch the bench clearing bru-ha-ha on the highlights. No ejections.
He looks good so far crdswmn. I thought all the excitement might mess him up.
What the hell happened? That was ridiculous.
Phillips, leading off, stepped into the box. He and Yadi had words. His helmet came off, Yadi’s came off, benches cleared, pens cleared. Big rugbe scrum behind the plate.
Tony and Dusty ejected.
Yadi getting bood big as he steps into the box.
Ya gotta love it.
Yadi made a point to avoid eye contact as he trotted past Phillips after his dinger. Good show.
Cards commentators talking about Cueto kicking guys with his spikes during the scrum.
Anybody out there with the Reds feed?
I couldn’t tell who spoke first because of Yadi’s mask. From Yadi’s reaction it looked like Phillips mouthed off to him.
Where is 57?
Video of melee
Everybody is quiet.
Well, the series has exceeded expectations so far. I’m glad to see that they’re keeping it interesting out there.
I guess Oquendo was trying to give Albert a pair of high fives as he passed 3B.
Heh heh. I don’t understand how those two can co-exist on the same team. What blatant disrespect for your coach.
I’ve got to say that the difference in outfield play over the past inning will likely have decided the outcome of this game.
Brian, that is what it looked like to me too.
My monthly shopping excursion took longer than I expected… I got back, just in time for my ESPN Gamecast to indicate that Matt had doubled and knocked in Albert!
Reading through the comments, I can see that Phillips had apparently brought it to a head. And what’s with Yadier’s fifth homer? Along with last night’s salami by Skip, we’ve got the revenge of the small-ballers!
I can’t believe that Jaime has only 72 pitches after 5 innings and that Cueto is nigh unto 100 (without a single out yet recorded in the 6th)!
Now, I see that our Colby doubled and knocked-in Matt! Yeah, our offense is firing on all cylinders and our Jaime is looking great!
A nice sacrifice by Yadier not only preserves his perfect night (2 for 2), but also gets his 2nd RBI… What a guy!
You missed the brawl 57. Brian posted the video link.
It’s just Albert being Albert, Brian.
With the ball in front of Albert where he can see it perfectly well, Jose ought to just stand aside and let Albert decide what to do.
I keep thinking Garcia is ready to fold, and he doesn’t.
Heck of a catch by Colby a while back.
We completely destroyed their darling Cueto’s bid for a quality outing!
I can see that 5 runs was definitely not too much to ask of our offense. Cincinnati (and Phillips) will approve of the fact that we didn’t concentrate all of them into a single inning…
I will be downloading the melee vid after the game. THANK YOU, Brian, for your thoughtfulness…
Tony wimps as Tony does, thinking Garcia’s ego is too fragile to possibly take a loss. Tony fails to realize the pitcher would much rather control his own destiny and take care of the mess he created.
Salas looks bad.
Did Salas come in too pitch to Edmonds or did Edmonds come in to bat against Salas (which was announced first?)
The offense needs to get going with a vengeance.
I really don’t understand why Tony pulled Jaime out after only 88 pitches… He could have finished the inning and possibly given-up a run (so what?)…
Jimmy Ballgame takes them out of the inning with baserunning blunder getting caught off second. Sort of like something we’d do.
That was Fernando’s second consecutive bad outing… Despite the added ER, Jaime’s ERA still remains below 3.00. Now, all we need to do is to keep them scoreless and add a couple of insurance runs…
Franky, Kyle and Salas have all looked kind of rough. Now I see where Suppan has a sore groin, the plot thickens.
Wow! Jon and his ever lovin’ doubles! Now the table is set for our Boppers!
Jaime needs to learn how to find the plate if he wants to stay in ball games.
So much for the Reds’ superb defense tonight, huh? They look like clowns out there.
OK 57, here’s what happenned. With sacks jammed Matt hits seeing eye grounder between 3rd and short. One run scores, the throw home is off line and the second run scores. Catcher throws down to second to get Matt advancing on the throw home, Phillips cuts it off between second and the mound and throws home but Albert scores as the catcher drops it, but he may have been in there anyway. Holy cow. A base clearing seeing eye grounder.
Whoever wins this game, you can’t say it wasn’t exciting.
Incredibile, blingboy! I really wish that I could have seen it!
Albert must have been going flat out all the way from first. I’d love to see a shot of Jose as Albert rounded 3rd and barrelled down the line.
Imagine Jose as Albert’s manager!
57 – see my post #37 as to why Jamie was pulled. Just one more BS thing we have to accept to have Tony as our manager.
But Tony is out of the game CC. He wouldn’t cheat.
I saw it, Carioca, and I really suspect the same thing. I also believe in my heart that the outcome would have cost us one run (instead of two), if he would have been allowed to finish the inning…
Tony? “cheat”? Perish the thought?
Ondrusek really needed for his ERA to be inflated, the Reds really need to be demoralized and their fans really need to be sent home in a funk…
More runs guys, more runs.
I always feel better when we get past Votto safely.
Pagnozzi catching for Memphis – I wonder if Lohse got to choose his catcher?
Anyone have an answer to my question in post #39?
No reason to pitch Kyle a 2nd inning. now’s he’s toast for tomorrow.
Lohse throws 21 pitches, puts 2 on, but escapes w/o giving up a run in the first.
If Brandon Phillips doesn’t believe in bad karma, he should.
Already 46 pitches for Kyle Lohse thru 2 IP for Memphis at Reno. Single, 2B, 2 BB, 2 K, 1 earned run.
Me’s guessing Phillips hears some chin music tomorrow.
Waino wouldn’t do that would he?
A lot of good things tonight. Everything was good. Jaime had control problems but refused to fold. So we have taken over first place, by percentage points, and have Wainy going tomorrow. How sweet it is.
Yadi deserves a medal.
I will be at work and miss tomorrows game in its entirety. An outrageous injustice. Perhaps I will come down with something. Cough.
An ideas on when we will hear about any suspensions?
Lohse had a 1-2-3 3rd with two Ks.
Who would get suspended? Cueto? Anybody else? I couldn’t tell where the actual fight started.
Somebody always gets suspended seems like. Or fined at least. Nonsense if you ask me. Surely they won’t have suspensions run during this race.
Tony says LaRue has some facial injuries from getting kicked by Cueto.
The fans in Cincy have been treated to some great baseball, except their team lost.
Lohse has two 1-2-3 innings in a row now, with two Ks in each.
Post game, Carp is furious, it seems, about Cueto kicking LaRue in the face. Carp got kicked in the back with the spikes. I suppose Wainy will be in a crusty mood tomorrow. How very sad for the Reds.
Lost in it all, Matt went 4 for 5 with 3 RBIs.
The whole thing about Cueto being pinned up and just trying to get out is BS. Carp was pinned too and he didn’t kick anybody.
Let’s hope that our team can continue bullying the Reds like this tomorrow. I’m also sorry to be missing the day game while at work.
I have to assume that the umps didn’t see Cueto’s kicks or else they would have suspended him on the spot. Good thing that they didn’t!
Why did Rolen and Carpenter end up going at it? Rolen seemed to be calmly keeping Molina out of trouble in the early going. I’m going to have to guess that it was hot head Carpenter’s fault, as was the fact that his shirt got torn up.
Lohse with 3 straight strong innings. 81 pitches so he may have one more. Unless he blows up in the last inning, I think the controversy of his rotation spot will go away (at least until he has his first bad starts for the Cardinals).
I don’t think Scott and Carp went at each other. Someone else grabbed Carp and Scott was reaching over to pull the guy off Carp. It may have appeared by Scotty’s face that he was going after Carp. but I don’t think that was case.
Lohse settled down nicely. 14 in row retired at one point. 91 pitches through 6 innings. 3H, 2 BB, 1 ER, 7 K
Also in the video, after the fight is over, Scotty has got his arm around Carp. There didn’t appear to be any animosity between the two at all.
Lohse’s start sounds encouraging.
Lohse retired three more and finished with seven one-run innings.
Reno is like a cheap zombie horror film set………………there is a tent city beyond the left field wall for the homeless. I thought Gotay played a hell of a game at third. He can hit too. I use him instead of Wynn. Lohse will start a game within 10 days………..maybe sooner………….20mph wind in his face for the first few innings…………. tongue in cheek.
Cardinals give supplemental pick RHP Tyrell Jenkins $1.3 million to buy him away from Baylor. Keith Law on twitter
Any news about LaRue?
I did find this on LaRue at the end of Strauss’s column today
The Cardinals may place LaRue on the disabled list and are considering promoting catcher Stephen Hill from Class AA Springfield.
The link that Brian posted didnt show the friendly bat tap Phillips gave Yadi when he stepped in the box (or YAdi kicking it away).
Hill has been promoted with Suppan to the DL: link to article.
The ESPN video edited it out I heard. I saw it live so I can guarantee it happened. Maybe FSM has a video.
I’m surprised they brought up Hill instead of Anderson from AAA.
I made my previous comment before I read the article. I’m still asleep.
Suppan’s injury story was prepared for this very scenario. He will rehab as a long reliever. The AA catcher is just about availability until Friday.
My analysis of the Lohse start is a bit complicated for this venue. If I had to formulate a distillation it might sound like this………
1) he met his demons………a survived.
2) his focus on peer group acceptance…..(codependency)………… surrounding his rehab and last years frustrations is now his biggest challenge. Facing emanate failure , he reverted from the please Dave/do it Chris’ way, to something a little more familiar. It happened mid way through the third. Redbird played great defense. Gotay making some great plays. Dead center was 408 with a 25 foot wall…..left center 428………….that didn’t hurt. With a 20 mph wind blowing straight out to right, he avoided the change up………… trying to put up zero’s……….with the wind died a bit………the kids were blinded by it……….9 strikeouts. Reno hit the ball very hard early. He could of easily broke……….and you all would have been right……………..as it were, it appears that for now that you can relax for awhile…………Chicago start on Sunday could easily go South…. if he learned anything, maybe he survives…………..
Brian’s characterization of options is weak. Scott Boras chained to your front door often keeps away your guests………………..chained by your backdoor……..with a no trade clause in his teeth……..there are no burglars. The no trade neutralizes all options but one. It’s likely that the Phillies are watching with interest, no doubt having opinions about Dave’s mechanical issues. BD never takes that much damage though. They just shelf him for next year. As always, he may find a way…………he may not. He seems game.
Garcia made it through the 4th yesterday……….thanks to the Reds. I watched in the sports book jawing with a group of X kings players. I am not up on the new dialect, but managed one of the late black panther party’s patois.