The Cardinal Nation blog

Brian Walton's news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals (TM) and their minor league system

If Waino is the ace, Carp is the horse

At age 35, Chris Carpenter has been pitching deep into games for the St. Louis Cardinals this season.

Chris Carpenter (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)Much has been written recently about St. Louis Cardinals pitcher Adam Wainwright’s home success, where he is currently 11-0 with a 1.22 ERA in 12 starts this season. Some excited scribes, including yours truly, passed the mantle of team ace from Chris Carpenter to Waino.

I may have spoken too soon. When the Cardinals clearly needed a stopper after a pair of extremely embarrassing and ugly home losses to the Houston Astros, it was Carpenter who stepped up Wednesday night. Avoiding overexposing a suddenly-leaking bullpen, Carp worked 7 1/3 innings to improve to 12-3 and win for the ninth time in 11 decisions at Busch Stadium.

While Wainwright has averaged just six innings over his most recent four starts, Carpenter has stepped up big. If Carp isn’t the ace, he is clearly the horse of the staff.

As good as Wednesday night’s performance was, it was actually a step down from his previous three outings at Busch, where he went at least eight innings each time. Carp still owns the longest two stretches of home starts of at least eight innings since 1990 and three of the top nine.

The downside? Carpenter is on pace to toss 246 innings this season. A new career high at the age of 35 has to be considered a red flag. Wainwright is not far behind with a projected load of 240 1/3, which would also be a new maximum for him.

All tables are consecutive starts of eight innings or more, courtesy of researcher Tom Orf.

# Home since 1980 8 IP or more – dates Record ERA
5 Chris Carpenter 2005-07-17/2005-08-19 2-0 1.47
4 Chris Carpenter 2006-08-15/2006-09-11 3-0 0.51
3 Chris Carpenter 2010-07-15/2010-07-30 2-0 0.75
3 Woody Williams 2003-05-31/2003-06-21 2-1 1.13
3 Todd Stottlemyre 1998-05-11/1998-05-27 3-0 1.78
3 Andy Benes 1996-08-10/1996-08-31 3-0 1.50
3 Bob Tewksbury 1994-04-26/1994-05-11 2-0 1.80
3 Bob Tewksbury 1992-05-30/1992-06-29 2-0 1.04
3 Omar Olivares 1991-08-29/1991-09-14 2-1 1.09

MLB Network commentator Joe Magrane holds the longest run of eight innings in all starts since 1980 with seven. Carp had a stretch of five during his Cy Young Award campaign in 2005.

# All games since 1980 8 IP or more – dates Record ERA
7 Joe Magrane 1989-07-30/1989-08-29 7-0 2.23
6 John Tudor 1986-05-28/1986-06-23 2-0 1.35
5 Chris Carpenter 2005-08-02/2005-08-24 3-0 2.36
5 John Tudor 1985-07-24/1985-08-12 5-0 1.04

Of course, the master is Hall of Famer Bob Gibson. In “The Year of the Pitcher”, 1968 and through the next year as well, Gibson put together a run of iron-man pitching reminiscent of the early days of baseball.

# Home since 1952 8 IP or more – dates Record ERA
33 Bob Gibson 1968-04-20/1969-10-02 19-12 1.71
# All games since 1952 8 IP or more – dates Record ERA
35 Bob Gibson 1968-04-20/1969-04-19 23-10 1.13

Follow me on Twitter.
Follow The Cardinal Nation Blog on Facebook.

130 Responses to “If Waino is the ace, Carp is the horse”

  1. JumboShrimp says:

    I wonder what kind of animal Kyle Lohse would be? His AA ERA is presently 12.00. Maybe we should keep Suppan in rotation for a spell longer.

  2. blingboy says:

    I was just looking at his outing now underway. 4IP, 9H, 4ER. He’s at 65 pitches.

  3. crdswmn says:

    I like the term “co-ace”. For right now I believe that is what they are.

  4. BirdTalk50 says:

    I wouldn’t say too much about Waino because TLR might get another bright idea and trade him too.

  5. crdswmn says:

    BirdTalk50—I don’t think TLR would trade Waino. I think he prefers to live a little longer. :)

  6. Brian Walton says:

    BT50, good thing TLR isn’t the GM!

  7. blingboy says:

    Tell that to Luddy Brian. He complains on Friday and is gone on Saturday.

  8. blingboy says:

    Quote from Lohse in P-D Joe Strauss article today:

    “. . .I should’ve brought my own balls.”

  9. Brian Walton says:

    In the course of a season, how often do you think a player asks his manager why he isn’t playing more? IMO, people making a big deal out of the Ludwick and La Russa conversation like it is something unique and explosive either don’t understand or are looking for a reason to stir the pot.

    The Lohse quote is interesting to say the least.

  10. JumboShrimp says:

    Colby asked about his playing time recently, but did not get traded. The trade had NOTHING to do with Ludwick’s conversation with TLR. It was a baseball and financial decision. Ludwick was making more than $5MM. Once a player makes that kind of money, he becomes enough of a financial factor, a team may trade him for financial reasons. Mo saved Ludwick’s career in 2007. Mo did not want to trade Ludwick. He had to.

  11. JumboShrimp says:

    On Lohse, this reminds me of Mulder’s minor league tuneups back in 2006. Everyone knew Mulder needed an operation. He was terrible in minor league rehab stats. But the Cards still gave him a couple of ML starts and he got walloped by the other team and booed by the fans.
    Maybe Lohse and Suppan can become a piggyback tandem.

  12. crdswmn says:

    Rumors are that Cardinals are interested in Andy LaRoche.

  13. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    All big league pitcher dread the AA start. Its where they keep the young and hungry hitters. If a pitcher needs to make a statement, he will use off speed and a higher frequency of breaking pitches than Lohse used. He will worry it. If you are a high dollar player on rehab, and your trying to establish health and stamina parameters, you need to work on the subtle pitches, sinker, cutter and the like. If the kids catch on to you, they will hammer you. This appears to be what happened.
    By the looks of it, Lohse seemed to be fighting his tendency to overthrow. He IS stupid for talking to the press so candidly ……… of that I have no doubt. That is the negative sign. If he thinks that his teammates the the Cardinal PR apparatus is going to shush him back into a pennant race on a cream puff slide………..a ten year veteran isn’t acting like one.

  14. crdswmn says:

    Lineup: Lopez 3B, Jay RF, Pujols 1B, Holliday LF, Rasmus CF, Molina C, Skip 2B, Wainwright P, Ryan SS

  15. CardFanSince57 says:

    Errors-10 Fielding Pct-.936 Batting Avg-.229 OBP-.290 Andy LaRoche
    Errors- 8 Fielding Pct-.932 Batting Avg-.268 OBP-.345 Felipe Lopez

  16. crdswmn says:

    Hey 57, I am just the messenger. :)

  17. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Deep even breaths 57. Be reflective. You are easily the most important contributor here. Know the truth of that and share it with us.

  18. crdswmn says:

    Reds beat the Flubs 3-0

  19. CardFanSince57 says:

    Westy, I knew that you would perfectly understand the voluminous statement made by the succinct comparison…

  20. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Yes I do 57…………………..

  21. blingboy says:

    “The trade had NOTHING to do with Ludwick’s conversation with TLR. It was a baseball and financial decision.” Jumbo, you should not make factual statements without attribution, or Brian and a couple of the regulars will slap you in the head.

  22. crdswmn says:

    I know more than a few Cardinal players I’d like to slap in the head.

  23. Brian Walton says:

    WC, no showing favorites, now… ;-)

  24. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    The term baseball is all inclusive BB…………financial……is without question.

    Tony has reacted to Colby’s self interested baseball performance by sliding Jay into his 2 hole. When will that boy learn………………….. Tony’s icing of Jay was aimed at exposing management a bit. Getting their greasy little fingers out of on field operations.

    AP”s recent adjustments are so obvious………………and timed so interestingly across the weekend of the trade deadline………………..I can’t help but…………………..naaaaawwwww……….couldn’t be.!!!!!!!!!

    BBUUUUTTTTT……….if it wasn’t coincidence………..it would be the most outstanding display of gamesmanship since the Spasky/Fisher matches in Reykjavik………… If he storms out now and grabs the world series…………..mythical being…… will not be an adequate title.

  25. CardFanSince57 says:

    Concerning blingboy’s contention (# 21): With regard to postulations based on theories and conjecture, the one whose judgment we respect most here on The Cardinal Nation blog insisted that “…the Cards did not HAVE to do anything” and that, concerning the Cardinals’ budget, “We don’t have nearly enough knowledge of their books to make definitive statements” (read #17 – “Closing the Cardinals books on Ludwick”)

  26. crdswmn says:

    Lineup change—Miles instead of Skip. Skip has sore wrist.

  27. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    I think he was sarcastically quoting the Shrimp 57…………… We know more than you might think about those books. Brian just loves the club house buffet.

  28. Brian Walton says:

    Nah, the media is never anywhere near the players’ food.

  29. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Get a jersey on……put a towel over your had……….and eat some turkey.

  30. CardFanSince57 says:

    Wow! I’m loving how the table was set and how the table was cleared!

  31. CardFanSince57 says:

    Now that we’re hittin’ ‘em early, I hope that we hit ‘em often…

    How ’bout Colby doin’ what Matt could not?

  32. CardFanSince57 says:

    A foul-out is a helluva lot better than grounding into a DP…

  33. CardFanSince57 says:

    Nolasco is going into the Marlins dug-out wondering if anyone got the license number of that truck…

  34. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    I hate it when Molina comes to the plate……….pitcher on the ropes, and announces that he wants his share as Albert Jr……………man on 1st and 1 out….and he is cranking………..that’s punk.

  35. CardFanSince57 says:

    Was that actually a fielder’s choice and not a missed DP?

  36. CardFanSince57 says:

    After the 5 pitch walk, Adam has been throwing nothing but strikes!

  37. CardFanSince57 says:

    A 14 pitch inning ain’t so bad, all things considered…

  38. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    High chopper 57. HM had to let it go by thus the play was made a 2nd instead of first.

  39. CardFanSince57 says:

    ‘Preciate that, Westy. I’m “watching” blind on my trusty ESPN Gamecast…

  40. CardFanSince57 says:

    Now, Brendan’s average is just .001 lower than that 3rd Baseman for the Pirates…

  41. CardFanSince57 says:

    All three of our batters could have taken the counts deeper and made Nolasco work….

  42. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    I would take that 3rd baseman in a NY minute 57……….his number are meaningless at this point. Can’t figure out why they are swing at Nolasco’s breaking pitch. He rarely throws it for a strike. If you can see it spinning let it go.

  43. CardFanSince57 says:

    Adam pitched to Tracy’s weakness (.216 low and away) and it paid off

  44. CardFanSince57 says:

    I wish that I had such batting savvy, Westy. As it is, I’m taking careful notes…

  45. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Sell a few maple leafs and get high speed 57. It worth it.

  46. CardFanSince57 says:

    ‘Twas a 10 pitch inning. Adam could… go… all… the… way!

  47. CardFanSince57 says:

    I’m determined to do something like that, Westy! Whatever it takes…

  48. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Holiday looked like Charley brown trying to kick a field goal with Lucy holding it 57. It looks bad.

  49. CardFanSince57 says:

    Hopefully, we’ll get some Matt-Lucy cooperation on this second trip through…

  50. CardFanSince57 says:

    I had no idea that Jon Jay was that fast! The last hit was a bunt single!

  51. CariocaCardinal says:

    I love it when Albert is selfish like he was in the first!

  52. CardFanSince57 says:

    It’s good to see that Albert took the count deep. I am so glad that he didn’t ground into a DP and leave nothing on base for our Clean-up (who is busy arguing with Lucy)

  53. CardFanSince57 says:

    Hey! Matt actually doubled and knocked in a run! The Marlins have to face our big guys at least twice more…

  54. CariocaCardinal says:

    LaRoche wont help us.

  55. CardFanSince57 says:

    That’s all right, Colby: You knocked Matt over to third…

  56. CardFanSince57 says:

    Carioca, you are guilty of uttering an understatement! ;)

  57. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Rasmus passes on the RBi………….Molina, in a frustrated power display, pulls off every single pitch. And strikes out on a ball in the dirt. He is claiming the lead for himself as an opportunity to boost his power numbers. Neither thought to pick up the double. ……………. Colby is not exactly a poker player………….Molina is saying its his right to feed his family………….neither avoiding the obvious.

  58. CardFanSince57 says:

    ‘Twas another 10 pitch inning. Adam definitely could… go… all… the… way!

  59. blingboy says:

    CC, I bet LaRoche could help us one day out of every five. To bad we don’t have another prime right fielder handy.

  60. CardFanSince57 says:

    Oops! I spoke one out too soon… my bad!

  61. CardFanSince57 says:

    (So, it was 14 pitches, instead of 10)

  62. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Ramirez hits the seeing eye bunt…………Bonifacio attacks Lopez too……..these guys are players.

  63. CardFanSince57 says:

    All right! We’ve got the makings of another big inning!

  64. CardFanSince57 says:

    Attaboy, Adam!

  65. CardFanSince57 says:

    Can you believe Brendan? This game is all about the Big Boppers and the small ballers giving our Ace what he deserves

  66. CardFanSince57 says:

    Jon Jay is 3 for 3 unreal! Everyone in our lineup has contributed offensively!

  67. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Jay picks up the double. …………..very nice solution to that pitch…………….. no HR for him.

  68. blingboy says:

    You would have enjoyed Brendan’s hit 57. Sweet swing, smoking line drive high off that big wall out in left.

  69. CardFanSince57 says:

    …and to think that Albert has at least two MORE plate appearances tonight!

  70. CardFanSince57 says:

    Wow! The mental imagery is breathtaking, blingboy! I am so happy for that guy: He is one fired-up ball of energy!

  71. CardFanSince57 says:

    Jay is definitely a speedy table-setter: He can get an infield single, a bunt single or he can take the ball deep into his favorite spot in the outfield (left-center).

  72. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Pujols has relaxed………. he is in the drivers seat now. Makes me think we aren’t going to find a 3rd baseman……………………..Marlins pen has been worn out all week. They can punish this guy for 6 innings.

  73. CardFanSince57 says:

    A 12 pitch inning! Adam’s 16th win could be a Complete Game Shut-out, taking his ERA down to just below 2.00!

  74. CariocaCardinal says:

    STOP IT WESTIE! YOU ARE CONFUSING ME! Didn’t you just tell us a couple of days ago that trading Ludwick gave BD all the leverage? !!

  75. CardFanSince57 says:

    At the start of this game, Nolasco had a decent ERA… I don’t think that he’s in a very good mood…

  76. CardFanSince57 says:

    That “strike” was actually a bona fide ball – far out on the other side of the plate. Colby got cheated…

  77. CardFanSince57 says:

    Yadier is definitely perfecting that opposite field blooper…

  78. CardFanSince57 says:

    This 7 run cushion in the 5th inning sure feels good!

  79. blingboy says:

    Strike three to Colby didn’t look too bad on TV 57. Good pitch, unhittable but too close to take with two strikes.

  80. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Colby gets caught back door………with two strikes…………… still looking to crank. Yadi takes to he-man cuts and then nicely fights off a jam shot……….doing what he should. That was a pitching mistake….forcing him to do the right thing. Waino was way over swinging in a route. That’s dangerous. If he doesn’t hurt himself……….they might just take offense and plunk him..

  81. blingboy says:

    Westy is getting blasted with both barrels, two threads at once, wow.

  82. CardFanSince57 says:

    The umpire is either a narrow-strike zone hitter’s umpire or else he is really sloppy tonight: 2 of those 4 straight “balls” were actually strikes!

  83. CardFanSince57 says:

    Adam must have done something to anger the ump: NONE of the “either way” calls are going his way…

  84. CardFanSince57 says:

    Now that Hayes has struckout, we need to demoralize ‘em with an inning-ending DP

  85. CardFanSince57 says:

    That was Adam’s worst inning of the game (18 pitches), but short of 70 pitches after 5, he still could… go… all… the… way!

  86. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Waino hung one and Ramirez just missed. Phew!!!!

  87. CardFanSince57 says:

    Ya gotta love a guy who wears his baseball trousers old school.

  88. CariocaCardinal says:

    Most of the BP hasn’t worked since Monday or Tuesday. Someone will get some work tonight.

  89. blingboy says:

    One would think Waiy could hit the shower early with a seven run lead. Save a little wear and tear. I believe he is on pace for career high innings. Our pen couldn’t possibly blow a seven run lead.

  90. CardFanSince57 says:

    Although I would certainly like for Adam to get another CG, Carioca, you’re probably right…

  91. crdswmn says:

    My internet went out on me. Back now.

  92. CardFanSince57 says:

    Yeah, that’s another thing, blingboy: I had not thought of either thing; the bullpen needing work and the fact that Adam certainly is heading towards a career high with innings pitched…

  93. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    You would think the both Hawksworth and Boggs could use some low stress throws/

  94. CardFanSince57 says:

    Adam is only 79 pitches after 6…

  95. CardFanSince57 says:

    Look out, Marlins! Here come the 3 Boppers!

  96. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    79………..if he gets a sub 10 they might let him see the 8th.

  97. CardFanSince57 says:

    Badenhop is actually challenging our big guys

  98. CardFanSince57 says:

    Thank you for getting that walk, Colby: Badenhop was making minced meat out of our boppers!

  99. CardFanSince57 says:

    Can you believe that?

  100. blingboy says:

    The other side of it is that he has a one hitter going.

    Glad you’re back crdswmn.

  101. CardFanSince57 says:

    A 4.50+ mediocre takes the mound; gets Albert to ground out and then proceeds to strikeout both Matt and Colby!

  102. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Colby is a victim of his his own agenda………….and a bad call………..the ump is trying to help him.
    That strikeout now makes Colby odd man out against lefties……..that’s costly.

  103. CardFanSince57 says:

    Adam is painting the outside edge, but the umpire is not giving it to him…

  104. blingboy says:

    Back to the 3rd base issue. We sort of need Flip to lead off. He wouldn’t play second as much as he’s playing third, so who leads off? That is an arguement for going after, at most, a late inning defensive replacement type, without regard to offense. Do we have that guy in the system anywhere?

  105. CardFanSince57 says:

    91 after 7… Do you think that he will go one more?

  106. crdswmn says:

    8th inning or not? I say let him go.

  107. CardFanSince57 says:

    The closest thing is Gotay, but at 16 errors, he’s not close enough… LaRoche simply ain’t worth any bother…

  108. blingboy says:

    Yah, Gotay is an emergency callup 3rd baseman. Second is his position, like Flip.

  109. CardFanSince57 says:

    A little more muscle and a little less fatigue and that particular opposite fielder would have been a Yadier’s 5th home run…

  110. CardFanSince57 says:

    The only other “solution” is no solution at all: Craig….

  111. CardFanSince57 says:

    Mitey Miles has certainly been doing a bang-up job…

  112. blingboy says:

    Miles lofted that one to the track in left center near the ’434 ft’ sign. Woulda been out anywhere else.

  113. CardFanSince57 says:

    That’s twice tonight, that Adam has knocked a man from 2nd to 3rd…

  114. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    BB………Tony wants them to make a commitment on another player for 3rd. They don’t want too. They don’t want Craig there either…………they are telling Tony not to push that saying they will find something………………and games go by…………….If they would take on a little salary, they could get one…………..Its happened before, in fact several time…..Lopez in 08 comes to mind.

  115. CardFanSince57 says:

    20 wins for Adam, by the end of this month, is not far-fetched at all. Hell, he could get 23 or 24 by the end of a Cy Young season! His ERA is heading back down to below 2.00…

  116. crdswmn says:

    Let him go 9!

  117. blingboy says:

    Albert stayed on top of another pitch up in the zone. Good sign.

    I don’t see anything good coming from trying to do a waiver deal, Westy. A boneyard guy is all. Tell Crede if he fires Scotty we’ll give him the minimum.

  118. crdswmn says:

    2nd CG shutout for Waino.

  119. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    I agree. we have to free up Lopez to keep Skip , Miles and Brendan from being over exposed. How long do you think it will be before Ryan starts another stash? And that’s the truth. Psycho.

  120. CariocaCardinal says:

    is Tony putting tryint to get Waino a Cy award above the team?

  121. Brian Walton says:

    CC, do you mean because of 110 pitches, number of innings, number of starts or what?

  122. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Tony was very active today……….especially early………..Jay responded beautifully to the first sacrifice.
    He was starting runners, .the whole shebang…………….. he is trying to make them perform as a team.

    The back door braking pitch strikeouts of Colby are kind of sad. They were so predictable, and such hangers, he could have doubled or better away on either one. …………………. Brian might want to collect the numbers concerning HR’s to salary in arbitration and beyond……….players know…agents tell them………………..Molina openly wants some for himself……….If he had the discipline to know when to do it and when its inappropriate, I have no problem……….I don’t see that….. Colby is lost in his career tactics. If Pujols gets hot……Colby will rue the day he gave up that 2 spot.

  123. CariocaCardinal says:

    Brian, I was talking about getting him the complete game shutout instead of conserving his work load and getting the bullpen needed work.

  124. Brian Walton says:

    I don’t think the pen is underworked. Looking ahead, they will see a bit of time Saturday and a lot on Sunday.

  125. CariocaCardinal says:

    Brian, you are so negative! :) Of course if you are right, the question is will they be sharp?

  126. RCWarrior says:

    WC, Now I do enjoy the internet coaching but if you think those balls were strikes we need to get you a new flat screen :)

  127. RCWarrior says:

    By the way WC, Colby went oppo with that first single :)

  128. crdswmn says:

    That ump’s strike zone was all over the place tonight. Waino got more K’s than he got credit for. And yes, those pitches to Colby were not strikes.

  129. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    They were workable………………..says the ump……………they were immanently spoilable if nothing else.

    It is the game………..his step in move is keeping him from dealing with that competitive scenario. How could he not expect that sequence RC…………its the game. When he has two strikes, he has to defend………………..he cycles in the same evaluative sequence…………he earns the confidence, and then he speculates with it………..he is too greedy. How and the hell can you nit pic with a relief pitcher with that much movement……………he isn’t going to give in……………if he thought he was, why not trash the cutter off the hands. You can’t cover it all. Sometimes you have to use all your resources, to get the single when you have lost the initiative…………………

    20 of those short singles every year…………a 300 hitter is made of………….we need to have Jay and Colby smoking………………….if you really what AP to move on. He will break the collusion agreements if he hits 50 hr’s and bats 350…………………the big markets would become vulnerable if they didn’t bid for a super hero.

  130. JumboShrimp says:

    Great game. Jay with 3 hits, Albert puts it away with the old 3 run blast before the Marlins collect an out.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.