The St. Louis Cardinals added Milwaukee’s reject, Jeff Suppan. How much trouble will ensue?
By Ian Walton
Apparently fed up with giving starts to the likes of P.J. Walters and Blake Hawksworth, the Cardinals have decided to do their starting rotation what they have been doing to their bench of late, sign another team’s discard to take the place of a rookie. In this instance, former Cardinal Jeff Suppan joins Aaron Miles and Randy Winn in making the team older, if not particularly more or less talented.
It isn’t news that Jeff Suppan, despite being a nice guy by many accounts, is not a very good pitcher any more. You don’t need me to tell you that. The Brewers, who as of 6/10 were ranked 15th of 16 National League teams in ERA with a 5.30 mark, released the guy despite owing him $12.5M this season. He’s 35 years old. His fastball lies at 87-88 MPH. His walk rate per nine innings pitched during his three full seasons with the Brewers increased from 2.96 to 3.39 to 4.12. His strikeout rate per nine decreased from 4.96 to 4.56 to 4.45. His 12 wild pitches last season were the third most thrown in the National League. The man held a 7.84 ERA in 31 innings this season. Jeff Suppan is a bad pitcher who is only getting worse.
He isn’t all that bad, however. He isn’t really a 7.84 ERA pitcher. He has been unlucky this season and offers a number of reasons for Cardinal fans not to be entirely discouraged by his signing:
- He has a legitimate starter’s repertoire of pitches. According to Pitch F/X, he mixes a four-seam fastball with a slider, a curveball, a changeup, and a cut fastball. At very least, he can keep hitters guessing which one of his mediocre pitches will be thrown.
- His changeup, which was his only above average pitch last season according to FanGraphs, is getting absolutely destroyed this season. One reason might be that he has been throwing it at a meager 79.6 MPH this year, down a full 1.5 MPH from 2009. Considering that his fastball isn’t getting any slower, Dave Duncan might convince him to take less off of the change in hopes of hitters having a little less time to react to it. If that doesn’t work, he can always scrap the pitch in favor of the cutter that he has started throwing this season.
- His groundball percentage in 2010 is only 37.5%, down from 48.9% in 2009. If anyone can help him fix this particular flaw, it is Dave Duncan.
- Opposing hitters have a .399 batting average on balls in play in 2010 against Suppan, which is dramatically higher than his career .303 value. He has been unlucky this year, plain and simple.
- This year, his K/9 rate is 5.23 and his BB/9 rate is 3.48, which are noted improvements over his 4.45 and 4.12 values in 2009 as listed earlier. Again, he has pitched moderately well for being Jeff Suppan despite his inflated ERA.
So maybe the Jeff Suppan signing won’t really be all that bad. P.J. Walters gave up 13 earned runs over his last eight innings pitched. Blake Hawksworth gave up six earned runs in four innings during his past start. Even 2010 Jeff Suppan was better than that, and 2010 Jeff Suppan has been rather unlucky. A reasonable case can be made that he is legitimately the Cardinals’ fifth best healthy starting pitching option at this point. As a $12.5M pitcher, Jeff Suppan was an outlandish disappointment. As a pro-rated league minimum pitcher, he could get the job done until Brad Penny returns from the DL. I can’t fault the Cardinals for trying.
Penny is pressing the envelope at this time…….. He is now headed for KL’s reentry point. If things are looking good pitching wise around him………. he is a possible trade candidate……..and he knows it. If Suppan is better than expected, and or Lohse looks like he is well……..that’s worth watching. He would have allot of value in late July.
Ian Walton wrote what all who harbor fondness for Jeff Suppan know in their heart:
“Jeff Suppan is a bad pitcher who is only getting worse”
Quite agreeably, Bernie Miklasz says, “…if pitching coach Dave Duncan can fix Suppan this time around, then it’s probably time to send Dunc to the Gulf Coast to see if there’s anything he can do about that oil spill”. Yet, Ian, like all who know Suppan to be a class act, can honestly express nothing more than hope that the former hero will regain a glimmer of his old self under the renewed tutelage of Dave Duncan. For Suppan personally, his final act with the Cardinals represents a hope that his sojourn will not be a crowning humiliation to a career which had been miserably deteriorating for over three years. Although Ian admits that Suppan is “a bad pitcher who is only getting worse”, his emotional fondness and hope can only muster “bad luck” as a possible aggravating factor in the decreased speed and inflated ERA and as a reason for giving Suppan the opportunity to vie for the 5th Starter position. I am hoping that the gambit will not result in a disasterous outing at a crucial moment. My best hope, which I know in my heart to be futile, is that he will delightfully surprise everyone and contribute greatly to a starting rotation with the stingiest ERA in the National League.
What happens in Milwaukee stays in Milwaukee. He’s not bad until he’s bad here.
CFS57, while any hopes of Suppan returning to his 2006 form are simply faint hopes, I will take a small issue with the assertion that Suppan being unlucky this season was due to emotional fondness and hope. He was unlucky. Batters will not continue to hit .399 against him or anywhere close to that number. It is a statistically sound assertion.
[...] that everyone is dying to read my further thoughts on Cardinals back of the rotation pitchers: Suppan is a bad option, but not that bad | The Cardinal Nation blog __________________ BJHL: GM of the Manhattan Crime Occasional Contributor to The Cardinal [...]
WC, I think that someone would have to step up big in order for Lohse to be traded this season. Given that the Cardinals are desperately floundering around in hopes of finding someone to hand the ball to 40% of the time now, I would have to think that dealing existing starting pitching depth has got to be one of the furthest things from their minds right now.
While I’ll take the Cardinals Opening Day starting five over just about anyone else’s, they are obviously not the model of health. If I’m not mistaken, Lohse was the only one not seriously hurting himself in recent years. Even if Penny and Lohse recover fully, I can’t the see Cards as willing to risk taking an Ottavino or a Suppan to the playoffs.
You make a pretty good fill in content provider Nut, did you get DFAed by some other blog?
Here’s a question for you. The word is the Cards want to see Suppan in a pen session today before pulling the trigger. Is it also possible they want to see Ottovino today before deciding on Supp? Or is willingness to sign him independant of whatever Otto does?
What are the consequences of Norrick getting outrighted, is he exposed to other clubs or anything?
Somehow, I don’t think that I’ll be adding “The Jeff Suppan of Bloggers” to my resume any time soon.
My impression is that both Ottavino and Suppan will pitch in the rotation. I don’t think that anyone else currently makes a reasonable case to bump either of them aside. So, Suppan gets the Walters/Hawksworth spot. I don’t know who would get Ottavino’s spot if he implodes.
As for Norrick, I believe that a player must pass through waivers in order to be outrighted off of the 40-man roster. However, as any claiming team must add him to their 40-man roster if taken, that probably isn’t a real threat.
Nut, its unlikely that the Cards could trade Lohse except to the Phillie’s. That would all depend on his effectiveness in tune-up games……..that’s 1/100………
Penny however has no future with the Cardinals………he knows that. The reason the Cards are rousting him now is simple. He knows that he will be rested when the activated. He has been treated poorly here with little run support. He will be looking for a 3yr deal somewhere. He knows its not here. Why step back into this mess.
You only need 3 and a half starters for the playoffs……..cards have them. This is hardly about baseball………its about money…………… there is an illusion here that we are all about winning and that Penny….who now won’t make any of his incentives, wouldn’t be a 3+ million salary bail with blue chip prospects coming back this way. His injury has an exceptional excuse…….hitting a granny………. He would be highly prized by some of the big money teams who are suffering pitching shortages…………. they are many and the races are heating up……..Cubs, Brewers are falling away…..Reds could collapse and if we don’t, we are back to a cake walk……. We could have so much pitching by interpretation, if we would just score a few to support them.
One way or another, you will see Penny’s name in the rumor mills in July.
If you look at what Holliday did with the Athletics last Apr-July and what he is doing now, he’s exactly the same guy. His OPS is close. He later got hot down the pennant race of Aug/Sept which may boost expectations now to an unreasonably high level. A big contract makes fans expect a lot. The human being is the same, no matter what he is paid.
One basic difference between Ludwick and Holliday is Ludwick strikes out more. He has whiffed about 20 times more, so far. Holliday makes more contact. TLR wanted Holliday when the Rockies were shopping him and Mo kept after it and landed him last July. Holliday’s swing is not as good as Pujols, but he makes contact and has done well at the ML level for years. There is no reason to disrespect Holliday by putting Ludwick at cleanup. If Holliday were to be injured, then Ludwick can backfill him at cleanup.
JumboShrimp: I don’t think there is any disrespect in placing the league’s RISP leader in the clean-up spot, until Matt picks it up (as he most certainly and inevitably will). It was a very happy day for me, when Holliday was signed long-term and I look forward to what will surely become a richly rewarding career with the Cardinals. For the time being, however, egos must be set aside for the sake of the team – and winning!
Nutlaw: (The following is extracted from yesterday’s “debate” and game observations)…
I continue to agree with the gist of the article, but continue to believe that Suppan’s deteriorated performance is more the result of natural aging than “bad luck”. No, batters will not continue to enjoy .399 success against him, but they will continue to hit higher than .300 (the difference, for the sake of argumentation, is minimal). While he cannot be beneficial to any degree, he does present a liability; if not, but for a single outing: No, he will not cost us salary money, but possibly a game (or three)!
Holliday has a .373 OBP. I still think that he makes for an outstanding #2 hitter. Ludwick has a slightly higher SLG and a slightly lower OBP, so Holliday before Pujols and Ludwick afterward makes plenty of sense to me.
WC, yeah, trading Penny would seem a lot more likely than trading Lohse, but will Lohse be ready that soon? Again, I’d be worried about Carpenter and Garcia as injury risks. I don’t really see the Cards as having a glut of starting pitching right now. Of late, the team hasn’t really been trading away any useful major leaguers – they seem to be in more of a mindset to win right now rather than build for later.
I’m hoping that we will be going into tonight’s game with news that the Reds were humiliated with another upset at the hands of the lowly Royals. Brendan Ryan was batting a mere buck ninety-nine when he erupted with his huge surprise last night. In so doing, among other superlative effects, he insured a win for Jaime’s quality outing. Indeed, if the bottom of our batting order can continue to overcome the lameness of our anemic big boppers, we will assuredly kick butt once again tonight! Nay, if Dan Haren and Adam Ottavino each pitch according to their respective records, we will need a minimum of 5 runs to beat the Diamondbacks tonight. We’ll have no problem if we can get decent production, in addition to another boost from the bottom of the order, from only ONE of our big guys (either Albert, Matt, Ludwick or Colby). Aye, it would be wonderful to finish this day a game ahead of the damned Reds!
Suppan’s 2010 FIP of 4.91 is only a tick above his FIP with the Cards in 2006. I dont expect miracles but hopefully he can keep us in a few games.
While I would support trading Penny if we could get a good haul for him it isnt going to happen no matter how good our other 4 starters are doing. First, we aren’t going to have that big of a lead at the end of July that winning the pennant is a sure thing. Second, It is not in line with anything Mo/DeWitt has done in the past.
Although I would flip-flop the placement of Rasmus and Ludwick, I can live with tonight’s line-up (especially with the return of David Freese)…
3b Freese
cf Rasmus
1b Pujols
lf Holliday
rf Ludwick
2b Schumaker
c Molina
ss Ryan
p Ottavino
Adam is still not keeping the ball down! The two fly-outs were lucky (in that the batters failed to hit ‘em where they ain’t) and the balls thrown to the lefthanded batter were all up and away… Damn it!
The double was up and directly over. Adam doesn’t have the velocity to get away with that (like Motte)…
Finally! A ground-out! Unless our batters unleash their power, this could be a long, painful evening…
Giving the Devil his due, Haren successfully challenged both of our big boppers…
…and he’s going through our line-up like a knife through butter!
Yeah, the Devil is a good batter too…
Finally! Another inning-ending ground-out!
Haren was a good hitter at Pepperdine, a two way player.
Let us hope that this night eventually approximates the kind of night that Haren had the last time we faced him. Because he was simply superb at the plate, he was willing to endure a miserable night on the mound.
What’s with all these fly-outs? Isn’t he being schooled by Duncan and our staff to keep the ball down and to induce only grounders?
Damn it! Adam keeps pitching them (and hanging them) up and over the zone!
Hang ‘em and Reynolds will bang ‘em…
Hang ‘em and LaRoche will bang ‘em…
How will our guys adjust to Haren the second time through? Will he once again cut through us like a knife?
Albert and Colby are the only two to get the damned ball out of the infield! In the face of a developing horror (Haren pitching a no-no against us), I am yet hopeful that the bottom of our order (to include Ludwick) will yet work some magic…
Uh-oh
Hang ‘em and Snyder will bang ‘em…
All the Arizona outs, except for two, are in the outfield!
The kid is worn-out. It would not be wise for Tony to keep him in another inning, a depleted bullpen notwithstanding…
Hell, the Diamondbacks are gettin’ worn-out: No longer able to smack homers, they’re being reduced to one double after another…
57, this is why the Cards signed Suppan. Good effort by Ottavino, but he is not ready to win on the road. Let’s see what Boggs has.
I live in the Milwaukee metro area and I watch every Brewer game. I’ve watched Suppan during his glory days with us and I’ve winced and grimmaced through his deterioration here since. I am persuaded that the “improvement” represented by a Suppan appearance tonight would be only the bleed of four runs after four innings, instead of six…
All right! My man, Matt! The the third ball to be hit to the outfield: A double! Do we have the makings of a reversal?
Ah, yes! I was “yet hopeful that the bottom of our order (to include Ludwick) will yet work some magic…”
The bottom of our order definitely sparkles with spunk!
In the immortal words of Yogi, “It ain’t over ’til it’s over!”
It only took two pitches, Hawk! Thanks a lump…
All right! A Colby special… sent over the rightfield!
If we can just hold them off, a five run deficit over three innings ain’t nuthin’ for us to make up for. If the league is hitting .289 off Haren, there is no reason that we can’t.
If we can just hold them off, a five run deficit over two innings is something we’re able to handle.
Don’t look now, but the Reds demolished the Royals tonight; 11 to 5…
Home run not required – just get on base, Stav.
For the 4th time inside of one week, Albert has gone “Oh, for…”. Damn it!
Well, I suppose that it is possible to handle a 5 run deficit in the final inning…
Salas sure is throwing the strikes… impressive!
Well, we aided and abetted in the crime of helping Haren bring his ERA all the way down to a 4.61. Once again, we made a Koufax out of a mediocre…
We are hereby a game-and-a-half back of the Reds. The pain won’t be so bad if we can at least take the series with a win tomorrow…
Hey Westy! Where in hell are you? There are those of us who need not agree with every single thing that you say in order to enjoy your piquant personality and your emotional-mental-spiritual analyses. Hell, there are those of us who are able to “eat the fish and throw away the bones” while actually learning a few things from you! I missed you tonight: I think that your colorful take and expressions are NEEDFUL here.
Westy’s idea that the Cards would like to pull a Billy Beane with Penny later in the season is interesting. Buy low in the winter, sell high down the stretch.
The problem is the Cards may not be too far out of it or far enough ahead to be able to offload a starter with a month or so to go. You need more than 3 and a half starters for the stretch run. Not to mention, as of now, they don’t have the half.
Interesting lineup by Tony tonight. Years ago I read about a plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills who specialized in cosmetic surgery on the terminally ill . . . . so they’d be a better looking corpse. The guy made a good living.
Strauss article on Colby, RC and Tony. Very interesting.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/5C79655F4DBD6A8D862577400016836F?OpenDocument
“Jay has settled in at the leadoff spot for the Triple-A Redbirds”. STLToday. Interesting. I wonder if switch to infield is next?
Jon Jay throws left.
bb, Jay is a good choice at leadoff with a .436 OBP. Despite all the time spent at StL, he had ten steals heading into last night’s game. The entire remainder of the team has just 20. Memphis is 14th of 16 PCL teams in stolen bases.
If an OF were to be injured, Jay would seem a good fit for promotion.
Well, hopefully the Cards have another SP option out there somewhere, because I can’t see how Ottavino gets another chance after that. Pitched high and outside to everyone (when not right down the center of the plate) and induced three groundouts compared to 15 fly balls and seven line drives. Only threw eight sliders and thus ended up feeding a lot of changeups to right handers. Not good.
Well Jay would also be a good choiced for cleanup at this point since he has the highest SLG% at Memphis and also the highest ISO SLG%.
Its hard to guess who is the alternative pitchers are. McLane has lots of AAA experience, maybe he could keep them in the park. Rich Hill has been a ML starter, but Memphis is using him in relief. Cotton Dickson is pitching well, but is a AAA rookie. Mitch Boggs has 200 innings under his belt at Memphis, but was uneven starting in the ML.
The Cards could bring up Anderson to replace LaRue. But then if Molina got hurt, it would be Anderson and Pagnozzi, which would drive TLR nuts, so LaRue stays.
They could demote Stavinoha and bring up Jay, but there are not many at bats for Jay, so he is better off playing daily at AAA.
They could bring up Tyler Greene and let Miles go. But its not an important move. Its a gesture for the fans and we can do it in July.
The best things will be for Penny to get well and Suppan to contribute a bit.
Rolen has 14 HRs for the Reds. Glad to see Scott bounce back. The Reds have unglitzy Gomes playing LF; a smart Jocketty pickup. $15MM cheaper than Holliday.
Nutlaw, you have described every single one of the reasons that Adam Ottavino needs to spend the rest of the season in the Memphis rotation. The poise that he had shown in his first outing is gone and he apparently is not listening to Duncan and the rest of our starters, to keep the ball down and induce grounders. Having expressed hope and belief in him in the past, I am very disappointed…
One other thing, Nutlaw… According to Brian; “Tony La Russa said that pitching coach Dave Duncan had seen something in Suppan’s last outing by Milwaukee (against the Cardinals) that suggested the 35-year-old former Cardinal mainstay had something left”. Since I lack the knowledge and expertise to make Mitchell Boggs our temporary 5th starter and place Suppan in the bullpen (where he can do the least amount of damage), I am hoping against hope that Duncan is seeing something substantial (that no one else can) and that Suppan responds to his influence…
Concerning this afternoon’s game…
Even with a batting order that seldom ever fires on all cylinders (featuring two big boppers, both of whom are mired in their individual funks), our team is nowhere near as dysfunctional as the Diamondbacks. Yeah, our hitters have been undisciplined of late, striking-out right and left and crowning one mediocre after another as a Koufax, but their morass is nothing compared to the Arizona batters. Nay, even with our sputtering offense, if we can’t beat a sorry team like the Diamondbacks with our Chris, then we don’t deserve the be on the same field as an even sorrier team (like the Orioles)! There is no reason on Earth that we can’t take this series and leave Phoenix feeling hopeful…
The Cards have the pitching advantage today. It would be nice to see Felipe get the start at SS.
A rather strange batting order today…
It is easy to surmise that David Freese’s ankel is not completely healed, but it is difficult to ascertain the reason for replacing Ludwick with Winn…
3b Lopez
cf Rasmus
1b Pujols
lf Holliday
rf Winn
c Molina
2b Schumaker
ss Ryan
p Carpenter
All the drama, the espionage and intrigue – real and imagined, would get lost in a glorious glare; if the 800 pound gorilla in the room would stand-up, pound his chest and smack 2 or 3 out of the park… Then, who would dare to scratch the head and wonder about the reason that Albert went “Oh, for…” on four occasions within one week?
The thing about McLane is that his weakness at AAA has been giving up HR’s.
Greinke is making minced meat of the Reds (9 strike-outs so far, in 7 innings) and the Royals are beating them 5 to 2. If they go ahead and take the series, assuming that we take ours, we will come back home only a half-game out; only to face the second sorriest team in the Major Leagues (Seattle). What is more, the Reds will have all that they can handle with the Dodgers, beginning Tuesday…
After 8 innings (and 10 strike-outs), Greinke will be going for the complete game and the kill… While the near future is looking bright for us, it is now beginning to look mighty dim for our chief rival.
Carioca, McLane is better than most other starting pitchers on the Memphis roster this year for avoiding HRs. In 08-09, his rate was 1.2/9 IP. He gives up hits, for sure, but he would probably surrender fewer HRs than Ottavino.
Despite Votto’s 2nd homer of the game, Greinke pitched a 12 strike-out 5-hitter, to shave a half-game off the Reds’ lead. With Chris Carpenter, we shall presently shave another half-game off!
Hey, we can’t thoroughly enjoy the game without anecdotal treats from our resident philosopher, blingboy. Neither can we properly enjoy it without the colorful analytical wonders from our resident psychiatrist, Westy. Where in hell are those guys, anyway?
Not to worry, 57, Westie psycho-analyzed himself and realized he had issues. To help the Cards, he has become a Reds fan and is now extremely busy psycho-analyzing their players into nervous breakdowns. This is very helpful and Cards fans appreciate Westie’s wonderful new approach. Its a turning point.
Has Westy really gone over to the Reds, Jumbo? How did you find that out?
Nutlaw! With regard to your wistful thought, “hopefully the Cards have another SP option out there somewhere”; I’m waiting for your reaction to my two responses…
CFS, we’re on the same page with Ottavino. There are a handful of former minor league starters in the bullpen. I have no more idea than you who might be tried next. Maybe Hawksworth again? Suppan is going to start in one of the two open spots, though.
The first pitch! It didn’t take Colby too long to do that!
Nutlaw, I think Suppan will be an interesting experiment. I can hardly wait to discover what Duncan saw and how Suppan responds to Duncan’s tutel\lage.
I’m just following along when I get the chance 57. Maybe take it a little slower today, my eyes still hurt from trying to read all those comments yesterday. Or not, as you choose. I admire your enthusiasm. Go Cards.
“Oh, for…”! Albert just lined into a double-play? Damn it!
Sorry ’bout all the comments, blingboy… The Cardinals bring out the boyhood Rah! Rah! in me!
Adam LaRoche is just as poisonous as his brother! Damn it!
Knowing that Chris characteristically grows stronger during the course of every outing, two strike-outs represents a ray of hope in a 30 pitch inning…
As Matt comes to bat, both he and Albert now have identical .295 records…
Are we going to make a Koufax out of Jackson too?
An eight-pitch inning and a strike-out. Methinks two runs is all the Diamondbacks are going to get today…
Albert is the best .295 hitter in baseball.
Colby did a nice job getting on ahead of the RBI producing meat of the order. To bad he didn’t steal 2nd, 3rd and home. Oh, wait, he’s hitting ahead of Albert, can’t do that.
As we all know, Chris can hit homers too!
blingboy, as everyone is painfully aware, our “RBI producing meat of the order” has thus far lined into a double play and struck-out… Let us hope that they do not come back for a similar encore…
It goes under the heading of “Gallows Humor” that we Cardinal fans would sarcastically say, “Albert is the best .295 hitter in baseball”…
After a 17-pitch inning and Chris’ 4th strike-out, we can comfortably say that our man is settling-in…
A first pitch out… Not much of an At Bat, Matt…
Where’s the meat?
In striking-out, today’s replacement for Ludwick repeated what he did the last time he was at bat… His appearance in the line-up is what makes it “rather strange”. Can anyone tell me why Ludwick is not playing?
Yeah, despite the homer, our Chris is back in business!
I read its a scheduled day off for Luddy. Why he gets scheduled days off and lesser offensive contributors don’t is a secret known but to Tony.
It’s got me scratchin’ my head, blingboy…
We’re in the midst of a pennant race, all hell is breakin’ loose and Tony is scheduling days off for key players at crucial times?
Our hitters ain’t doin’ much, but Chris is 2 for 2…
A walk is the least that Flip can do…
I hope that Colby will do something quick, before “the meat” of our order kills the rally…
I guess not…
Three of the last four batters walked, so Colby swings at the first pitch. I guess he’s not a rocket scientist.
It worked in the first inning… So, I suppose that he thought that lightning would strike again in the same place.
Leave it to Chris Carpenter to load ‘em up with nobody out and then get out of the entire mess unscathed…
“Oh, for…”! Ol’ “Koufax Jackson” kept challenging our man until he got ‘im!
Did the man with the OCD and superstitious ritual just kill a crucial rally?
If anybody needs a psychiatrist, HE does!
Six innings pitched and only 3 earned runs… That qualifies as quality start, albeit hard fought. After 8 strikeouts and no support (again), Chris earned it!
The very LEAST that our guys can do, after Chris kept it down to a only a 3 run deficit, is to give him a hard-fought win; damn it!
Nice try, Brendan; but “close” only counts in hand grenades and nuclear bombs…
Slappin’ a piddly dribbler to the mound, MIles just went from .250 to .231. Next!?
Now, with both Flip and Colby doing their part, it’s time for real men to fish or cut bait…
All RIGHT! That’s more like it, Albert! Chris appreciates that (and so do we)!
And what does Mr Clean-Up do at a very crucial time when we have a RISP?
“Oh, for…”!
Now that we’ve screwed Chris out of another win, can we at least prevent him from being tagged with the loss?
Has anyone noticed that this is the third consecutive time that Reyes has done this? In the previous times, however, the runners were inherited – so the runs were not chargeable to him….
Let ‘em fly, Motte! And, Yadier, let him throw high, hard n’ mighty. To hell with any fancy stuff…
Keep ‘em comin’, Motte! When they’re high n’ hard, they land in Yadier’s glove just as soon as they leave your hand!
Yeah! Attaboy, Motte! Now, guys! Ya gotta clean-up Reyes’ mess and prevent Chris from being tagged with another loss that he does not deserve…
Besides lettin’ Motte do what he does best, Yadier’s doin’ his part (he’s gone 3 for 3 today)…
Ya gotta love David…
Rasmus and Ludwick should be hitting cleanup and 5th against a right-hander. Holliday can bat 2nd. Lopez, Holliday, Pujols, Rasmus, Ludwick, Freese, Yadier, pitcher, Skip/Miles. Gotta jiggle things up, change the atmosphere.
I quite agree…
Until Matt can snap out of it, he will continue to be what blingboy so aptly said; “our “pugilistically challenged chokemeister”…
Holliday can work on collecting some singles in the 2 hole. Take some pressure off him. Put hitters with more sock in 4/5.
Top o’ the 9th… Our last chance to prevent insult from being added to Chris’ injury…
Colby is hangin’ tough…
C’mon, Matt! Don’t kill this one!
“Oh, for…”!
At least he didn’t ground into a double-play!
I don’t understand how Qualls is still their closer.
Winn did his part too! What a great rally! Now, it’s time for Mr 3 for 3 to hit for the opposite field!
All RIGHT! Vasquez is pitching for US!
How did Yadier manage for his grounder not to become part of a double-play?
“Oh, for…”! Leave it to Schumaker to kill it.
Oh, well… At least Chris has been cleared of a loss and we have a fightin’ chance to win it.
What a magnificent rally! What a time for Albert to climb out of his funk!
That’s why no one ever talks about McClellan being the 5th Starter…
The home run was bad, but I think that he’s probably the best suited for role, personally.
You did a great job, 57, you almost willed them to victory.
Good game by Lopez, two hits and a walk. The Cards need runners to put pressure on opposing teams. If Lopez warms up, he can be the leadoff guy they need.
Holliday can bat 2nd and give some at bats to Winn too. Just because we gave him a huge contract, Holliday does not need to bat cleanup every game. Ludwick and Rasmus would be better at 4/5. Skip should bat 9th, Brendan should be parked.
Thank you, Jumbo! The boyish rah! rah! is compulsive…
In my estimation, Chris Carpenter was vindicated by his teammates and the loss is affixed upon the one who so richly deserves it.
“Just because we gave him a huge contract, Holliday does not need to bat cleanup every game”
– truer words have not been spoken. Well, said, JumboShrimp!
The “eight hundred pound gorilla in the room” didn’t exactly “smack two or three out of the park”, but when you consider his 3 RBI, he may as well have!
Ludwick is slugging 500, Rasmus 565. We want somebody at cleanup who can put a charge into the ball. Holliday is around 450 and that’s too low for cleanup. Matt should bat second until such time as he slugs more.
As Matt Holliday would heartily agree, RBI’s count (BIG time)!
Who would dare to argue, in the face of the slugging percentages you’ve presented, Jumbo?
Were it not for the fact that Number 3 catches the maximum number of opportunities for RBI’s (over the long-haul), I think Albert would be the best candidate for Clean-Up…
The Cards did an astonishing job of almost winning a game in which the cleanup hitter goes O for 5. Quite a feat, and it is quite a compliment to the rest of the guys.
57 thought I was being sarcastic when I said Albert is the best .295 hitter in baseball.
Colby recieved competent training from RC, so he knows if 3 of the last 4 walk, you should take a pitch or two, especially when walking would drive in a run. So it’s pretty much inescapable to conclude he had no clue about all the walks. He wasn’t paying any attention is what happened, resulting in him looking like a dumb ass. I can see where Tony and Albert would have a problem with a guy like that. But a guy like that would have problems anywhere, no matter what RC seems to think.
Well then, blingboy; Albert is now the best .300 hitter in baseball!
I couldn’t agree more with your analysis of what Colby has done (not done) with the training received from RC. What a talent, to be so unreceptive! As disciplined of a hitter that he has often proved himself to be, it is a shock to see him almost quite literally and inexplicably going into some sort of stupified torpor. You’re right; he looked like nothing short of “a dumb ass” and consequently greatly diminished from the efforts of his teammates.
Is anyone else, besides myself, having a problem signing into Brian’s new page (“Cardinals lead MLB with three starters with sub-3.00 ERAs “)?
Mo was on postgame talking about Suppan. Cosmetic surgery.
- – Like I said last week, when you don’t win with your aces, it hardly matters who your fifth starter is.
You’re right! Our three Aces have been screwed (just like today), time and again… Will a fifth starter cause our offense to support them? How ridiculous!
Apparently, no one else is allowed to get into Brian’s new page (“Cardinals lead MLB with three starters with sub-3.00 ERAs”): It is yet bereft of any comments.
Thank you, blingboy! It must be my computer… I’m able to get on this page, but not the new one!
How can it be, that I can sign into this page, but not the new one? Before giving-up, I will attempt to get a new password…
It might be a technical glitch on Brian’s end 57. Some times one kind of internet browser can get through and another can’t. If so, you’ll just have to wait till its fixed. If you are using AOL’s browser you might try something else if you can until the glitch is fixed. I had that problem one time.
blingboy: I use my trusty Mozilla Firefox. The problem appears to be fixed (with a new password), at least for the time being…
Jumbo makes a good case for Matt in the two spot. The rally killing phenom incarnation would struggle there, especially since we really don’t have a leadoff who gets on a lot. And it would get Colby off that hook, which we know from RC he doesn’t like, hiting ahead of Albert.
But it creates a question of who hits fourth. Certainly not Colby. He doesn’t like the cleanup spot, or hitting behind Albert. We know that from RC also. Ludwig may not fly, since he would then want Albert protection money at the end of the year. So a cost controlled guy like Freese would seem to be the answer. He’s a rookie, but plays like a seasoned player. And with Luddy behind him he might excel.
Colby could then hit sixth, well away from mean old Albert. With Yadi behind him, his speed would become an asset, avoiding DP’s, hit and runs, steal whenever he wants.
The one and eight spots would be filled from among the gang of 4: Flip, Brendan, Skip and Miles.
Leadoff guy
Frustrated rally killer
Best .295 hitter in baseball
cost controlled Albert protection
Awesome RISP clutch hitting gold glove looking right fielder
speedy power hitting lefty with short attention span
contact hitting holder of his family’s land speed record
whichever of the four who’s not hot enough to be the leadoff
Pitcher
I buy it – lock, stock and barrel. In fact, I’ve looked at your presentation every which way, but cannot find any flaws (or anything that I would change). I would like to see how someone like Tony could possibly (logically) set it aside…
The Cards are trying to compete in 2010. They could give a hoot about Ludwick’s 2011 salary. I think Luddy has one more year under arbitration anyway. Freese is a rookie and should not be burdened with cleanup.
Lopez SS
Holliday LF
Pujols
Ludwick
Rasmus
Freese
Molina
Pitcher
Skip or Aaron
First, PHE is a sickness, get help Jumbo.
Second, if the strategy were to enhance Luddy’s trade value by letting him excel in the glamor Albert protection spot, then offing him for a starter and bringing back Jay, who is being groomed as a leadoff hitter, then I’m OK with that.
Third, before heading down to Tony’s office with the new lineup card, I’d want Westy to do a psychological impact study. Matt might have some traumatic stress, but that just builds character.
Then, Jumbo (in the interest of competing in 2010), suppose you tell us why Ludwick is not batting Clean-Up! While I otherwise have no problem with your line-up and order, I hasten to agree with blingboy, that David Freese is not frail in any degree, but carries himself as a seasoned pro.
Matt is down to .809 OPS. He’s sixth on the team in RBI’s. Sixth!!! Tony is known as a numbers guy. Well, I guess 120M is a number.
Albert is 3 for 22 with no homers on the roadtrip so far, exactly the same as Matt. That’s the 3-4 punch we’ve been trying to win with. Some of the other guys have done a good job trying to take up the slack, but that’s just too much slack.
If Suppan turns out to be almost as good as Carp, what does that do for us if we can’t win with Carp?
I hope its not Salas to be sent down tomorrow, but realistically we know.
Amen!, blingboy; Amen!
Bling wrote, “Jumbo makes a good case for Matt in the two spot. The rally killing phenom incarnation would struggle there, especially since we really don’t have a leadoff who gets on a lot. And it would get Colby off that hook, which we know from RC he doesn’t like, hiting ahead of Albert. ”
No problems this year bling. Matt Holliday is on board so there is a new whipping boy for Albert. Albert doesn’t know who Colby is.
Did you not see the game a few weeks ago where Ludwick stole in front of Albert and got caught stealing? Albert went into the dugout and blew up on Tony. Who would want to bat in front of Albert?
Bling wrote, “But it creates a question of who hits fourth. Certainly not Colby. He doesn’t like the cleanup spot, or hitting behind Albert. We know that from RC also. Ludwig may not fly, since he would then want Albert protection money at the end of the year. So a cost controlled guy like Freese would seem to be the answer. He’s a rookie, but plays like a seasoned player. And with Luddy behind him he might excel.”
Now now Bling, I never wrote that. You are letting this cardinal baseball get to you. Why when you have Matt Holliday, Albert Pujols, and Ryan Ludwick would one even mention a 23 year old whippersnapper as your 4 hole hitter? With all his faults? I like MH at 2, Albert at 3, Luddy at 4, Freese at 5. That would be my middle.
Bling wrote, “Colby could then hit sixth, well away from mean old Albert. With Yadi behind him, his speed would become an asset, avoiding DP’s, hit and runs, steal whenever he wants.”
Mean old Albert? I believe it was predicted that Albert would struggle with the addition of Matt Holliday and voila, he has. I was thrilled with the Matt Hollday signing because I just felt like it would get Albert off of Colby’s case. Another voila. But do you see how hard it is to do anything right when you are in the cross hairs? Just check out Matt’s year so far. Its a tough gig if you threaten Alberts number one ranking… I mean tough…
Bling wrote, “Matt is down to .809 OPS. He’s sixth on the team in RBI’s. Sixth!!! Tony is known as a numbers guy. Well, I guess 120M is a number.
Albert is 3 for 22 with no homers on the roadtrip so far, exactly the same as Matt. That’s the 3-4 punch we’ve been trying to win with. Some of the other guys have done a good job trying to take up the slack, but that’s just too much slack.”
This is called the Clash of the Titans Bling. I’m not sure either of these guys have struggled quite like they are this year. One has to ask why that is? You know both Matt and Albert want to do well so what gives with their lack of production compared to years past?
I like what I see yesterday RC………
Bling wrote, “Colby recieved competent training from RC, so he knows if 3 of the last 4 walk, you should take a pitch or two, especially when walking would drive in a run. So it’s pretty much inescapable to conclude he had no clue about all the walks. He wasn’t paying any attention is what happened, resulting in him looking like a dumb ass. I can see where Tony and Albert would have a problem with a guy like that. But a guy like that would have problems anywhere, no matter what RC seems to think.”
If I’m sitting where you are sitting I’m not sure I disagree with much you wrote here. My mindset in that situation is I’d rather Colby watch a few pitches but my understanding is in this situation you are supposed to go to the plate ready to hit per TLR, not take strikes. Ball was down, he likes em down, he hit it hard but right at the second baseman. Thats the way the ball bounces sometimes.
Colby batting in the 2 hole is a recipe for swinging early and often. I believe he see’s more pitches per at bat than any player on the cardinals but when in the 2 hold he see’s very few pitches. Because he has been told that they are gonna throw you strikes because Albert is hitting 3 so don’t take them and get yourself in a hole.
Dumb ass? Not to Tony, its Tony’s philosophy to swing the bat with runners in scoring position early and often. And Albert most likely thinks everybody is a dumb ass so that would be nothing new
And to your last comment I would say the best way to find out if you’re right or not would be to do that very thing and lets see if you’re on target. You may be and if you are they need to get something for the guy now before he falls off the truck. But trust me Bling, when it comes to baseball matters my thinking ain’t gonna be off too much, and as Ricky Bobby said, I say that with all due respect
WC, he is working hard to improve in all areas of his game. Trust me on that. We are headed this morning to the local high school to hit and throw. He will never be as good as what many people hope for but it won’t be for lack of effort.
Freese has not been flashing a heck of a lot of power, really. Since we all know that Holliday isn’t actually going to leave the cleanup spot, I’d like to see Freese bat second now and then. He’s been getting on-base at a good clip.
If Holliday wasn’t batting clean up, then I would think that Ludwick would. I agree with Jumbo and RC on this one.
I’d been spluttering about getting Matt out of the cleanup spot for a couple weeks and as soon as Jumbo says it, viola, it happens. That rivals Westy’s compartment syndrome diagnosis the day before the doctors diagnosed it. I feel sort of out-classed.
RC, sorry for saying you said something you didn’t say.
I’d think Colby could hit cleanup, 23 and snotnosed or not. He’s good. I’d pay good money to see him flip his bat first time Albert got caught steeling for the third out.
Go Cards.
Nutlaw: The only reason that blingboy had suggested Freese at Clean-Up (and I agreed with him) was that it appears that Tony will never put Ludwick there. Otherwise, the idea of placing the league’s RISP leader in Clean-Up is also shared by blingboy and myself. We are thinking that Ludwick’s anticipated success at Clean-Up will drive-up his market value, which is something we feel that the management wants to suppress). Holliday was signed to an enormous contract in order to “protect” Albert, and it certainly appears that Tony throws blinders on to any suggestion otherwise…
WestCoastBirdWatcher: How DARE you take-off (like a big bird) for a couple of games and not report in! You’ve been sorely missed (and I mean that, sincerely)…
STLToday:
That’s right, Holliday’s batting second and The Lud Man is fourth:
1. Lopez, 2B
2. Holliday, LF
3. Pujols, 1B
4. Ludwick, RF
5. Freese, 3B
6. Rasmus, CF
7. Molina, C
8. Wainwright, P
9. Ryan, ss
I can’t believe we’re looking at a line-up that actually makes sense! It surely must be by popular demand…
Here’s hoping that we shall begin to reverse a terrible record against rookie pitchers. We don’t need for the lefty, French, to join what Brian calls “The Bud Norris Club”.
I’ll tell you who ought to be riding high in the saddle right about now, and its Flip Lopez. Mr. DeWit is paying a guy $120M to protect him
Jumbo must really have some clout. I have to hand it to him.
There’s been a growing posse, demanding for Tony to stop the nonsense and put a Clean-Up hitter where he belongs.
The li’l wimp ain’t supposed to do that! He’s supposed to hit only for high average! Damn it!
Here’s hoping that all the rest of tonight’s surprises will be pleasant…
“Hope springs eternal…”
Wow. I’m stunned by that lineup. Relieved, but stunned.
Holliday needs to be protected by Pujols for a while.
Matt walked, just like the last time he faced French. Now, Albert needs to show him how it’s done!
All RIGHT! Bravo, Albert! Now, here comes our Clean-Up!
THAT. my friends, is what I call a Clean-Up!
While Ludwick was at the plate, the announcers said that he was tied with the league leader for hits with RISP. Not anymore…
Well, they’re making us look smart with that lineup the first time through, at least!
The announcer says, “Wainwright is a terrific hitting pitcher”. He ain’t just whistlin’ Dixie…
I started feeling smarter within two weeks after I began hangin’ around with you guys…
Sound like you’re feeling pretty good these days 57, hope so.
A great spot for a singles/doubles hitter is Number 2. Matt is bearing that out… I anticipate that, by the All-Star break, he will once again be an honest-to-God Clearn-Up man…
“Twas a productive out, as it turned-out…. Good job, Albert!
One way or another, by hook or by crook, Ludwick is gonna clean ‘em up!
I am in awe of David Freese!
We’ve certainly ruined French’s chances of a quality start in his debut. More importantly, we’ve finally done something against a pitcher we had hitherto never faced. Ah, yes! French will definitely NOT join the Bud Norris Club!
Now THAT, my friends, is the reason that Matt is no longer our Clean-Up man…
I’ve said it before (many times): “I love it when Colby goes golfing!”
Let us hope and pray that Albert will only sustain an hour-long headache…
After souring as a starter and now souring in the reliever role to which he was demoted, Snell appears to be a younger version of Suppan…
Like a benevolent big brother, Albert bailed the rookie Freese out on that one and, thereby, preserved the double-play…
How many times have we witnessed either Wainwright or Carpenter, routinely induce a double-play grounder and then a strikeout (and vice versa)? Those guys are artists!
Good thing Albert’s a hard head.
I love your specialty, blingboy: the “double entendre with a twist”! You are just plain wicked!
From the second inning on, our man is pitching a one-hitter. Even including the two-run first inning, it’s another quality start, any way you slice it…
I think everyone is feeling a lift from the “release” of MH from the cleanup hitter. He is much more relaxed as is everyone else.
The bad news is that this is just a temporary move in avoidance of the “killing floor” syndrome that was threatening the team. Holiday has reverted to his strong stance. His front foot lift and its placement is killing him. He can hit singles there but in the end, it will be Ludwig that doesn’t survive behind Albert. Seattle’s pitching tonight was terrible. Pressure is off Colby again. He seems smiley at present. All that said, we haven’t found the solution yet……… I have no doubt about that. No simple solutions. Holiday needs to get it together.
Hey, speaking of devilish wickedness; Westy!
Temporary, shmemporary! The damned “killing floor syndrome” notwithstanding, the present circumstances (be they ever so changeable) present a very refreshing atmosphere…
A little irrational euphoria never hurt anybody. Try it, you’ll like it.
When the other team is teetering and demoralized, it’s Motte Time! As long as Yadier doesn’t make him pitch any fancy stuff, but allows him to throw ‘em high and hard, we’ll have some entertainment and some foolish-looking batters!
We don’t want any of that 95 to 96mph stuff… pick it up, Motte! Give ‘em some 98-100 mph gas, damn it!
To hell with those sliders comin’ from Motte, Yadier! Let him chuck ‘em high and hard!
Wow! Did you see that strike thrown by Ludwick?
Yeah, THERE”S our RBI man! You’re simply great, Albert!