Neither Jay McGwire nor his upcoming tell-all about his and his big brother Mark’s use of steroids, is news. Word of the book, “Mark and Me: Mark McGwire and the Truth Behind Baseball’s Worst-Kept Secret,” scheduled to arrive in bookstores on Monday, first came out last year when Jay was reportedly shopping the manuscript to publishers.
Not surprisingly, Jay asserts to ESPN that Mark did not tell the whole story – about what he used, how much he used or the perceived benefit – either to Bob Costas or in the subsequent carefully-scripted media tour that followed.
Tell us something we don’t already know, Jay. Timing is everything and your book is at least a year past its expiration date. Your profit window is literally shrinking by the hour.
Normally, this wouldn’t be enough for me to even notice here as I recognize that opinions regarding this issue have long been set. Further, among at least one camp, heavy McGwire fatigue has set in. I imagine that was part of the communications strategy carefully laid out in advance.
Big Mac has been accepted back into baseball and is happily tutoring Cardinals hitters. His Hall of Fame chances rest with the writers with the next mandate still ten months away. These points seem set.
Still, one nagging concern led me to this post.
McGwire generally scored well in terms of sincerity points during his admission tour, even as his misinformed message that PEDs did not affect his performance was appropriately trashed and elements of the rollout itself were bungled.
I have never felt totally comfortable with giving him a sincerity pass, feeling as if it was a professionally-driven attempt to dupe the public. The preparation behind the interviews, followed by a set series of talking points and canned phrases that Big Mac repeated over and over in his scheduled discussions, only added to my discomfort.
One rub regarded McGwire’s interaction with his father. During his tour stop at MLB Network, Big Mac noted that he struggled in breaking the word to both Tony La Russa and his family the day before, as if they would all be stunned by the “news”.
“I told my dad yesterday when I finally had to,” Big Mac tearfully admitted.
I can see how perhaps it was difficult for Mark to own up to it directly, but how in the world could admission of steroid use in his family be a surprise to his dad? Jay McGwire first got into them as a professional bodybuilder two decades ago.
If Mark’s use was news to his father, the only conclusion I could draw from that is that papa must have had some serious issues with ability to deal with reality as well. Jay’s book title says it all – the “worst-kept secret”.
Nothing on the surface would seem unusual. John McGwire is a well-known member of his community, for years a prominent dentist in Pomona, California. He cranked out five big boys, among them Mark, one-time NFL quarterback Dan and Jay.
Black sheep Jay apparently began using steroids in the early 1990’s and stopped in 1996. In between, he was a professional bodybuilder with the typical cartoonish caricature that goes with the sport. He also admitted introducing his older brother to steroids around the time dad talked Mark out of quitting baseball.
How could pop have not noticed his baseball-playing son subsequently getting bulked up? (Make sure you look at the various before and after photos of Jay in the ESPN article.)
“I remember calling him (his dad) in ’96,” Mark told MLB Network. “I was so frustrated with injuries I wanted to retire. He’s the one that told me to stick it out.”
Perhaps dad kept his eyes covered, later accepted his son’s “I did not use steroids” statement and further did not know that behind the embarrassing Congressional testimony from 2005 was Mark’s desire to come clean.
Fast forward to 2009. When news of Jay’s book first came out, how do you suppose that was handled in the John McGwire household? Did family members tear those pages out of his newspaper? Apparently, the estranged siblings did not sit down for Thanksgiving dinner together with the rest of the clan.
Like I have said numerous times, I accept Mark McGwire’s “apology” in terms of him being the new hitting coach of the St. Louis Cardinals. That doesn’t mean I have to buy his entire story, hook, line and sinker, any more than I care about brother Jay’s money-making spin on the sad escapade.
Let’s face it. At this point, anything that comes out about any members of this family should not be a surprise to anyone. ‘Move on, there’s nothing to see here…’
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Though it might be nice if athletes were able to deal with the press completely unscripted, I myself would not want to endure an invasive public grilling without a lot of pre-planning what I wanted to communicate. I might not adopt everything suggested by Ari Fleischer, but I would be very open-minded about listening to his ideas about what to say to the press.
If Mark’s Dad is a dentist, he may well dispense painkillers or authorize prescription medicines for patients. He probably appreciates how molecules can be used to improve human health, including muscular development. He might consider the steroid stuff much ado about nothing.
McGwire said something recently that I agree with. It was too bad he had to play during a time period when MLB and the Union had not yet set up a testing process. Such a system, now created, protects players against attacks. Since McGwire was successful and a center of attention when he was a player, this very fame has made him a lightning rod and symbol for attack, even from one of his brothers, a sad thing.
I would have a hard time refraining from trying to knock the teeth out of one of my kids for turning on his brother. Its the lowest form of crazy behavior ( and this is coming from the dad of a player – me. And I’ve posted the most ridiculous mess on the internet, drawing the ire of many a cardinal fan who have labeled me controlling, crazy, stupid, little league dad, stage dad, and this list goes on and on.)
I would do anything for any of mine, and have, but I would have a hard time forgiving one for doing what Jay has done to Mark with this continued money making BS. It just kills me.
I was very surprised in that I don’t think there was a single question from any of the media in any of the McGwire interviews to-date about Jay and his book. Perhaps it was even too embarrassing a subject for the press. At this point, Big Mac can legitimately wave it off if it comes up as all indications are that he has said all he plans to say on the subject of his steroid use.
Link to La Russa’s reaction to Jay and the book, while acknowledging he hasn’t read it.
TLR may be returning to his past role of being Mac’s voice on these matters or maybe the press just hasn’t descended on Mark today. The article hints the latter is the case, though it is unclear at this time whether Mark will address it directly.
Now I read the interview with Jay McGwire. It seems pretty good. Jay makes the point that he was the one who got his older brother into a PED+weight training regimen. His brother was down about physical problems and Jay had knowledge about how to help him.
It seems plausible that Mark began a body improvement program with the initial intent of healing. From his hard work to gain the muscles from PEDs, he would have seen positive results. This would have encouraged him to continue and he would have not just restored himself but gotten significantly more powerful.
To claim PEDs did not help him gain power, as Mark did in interviews, is absurd. Whether this is McGwire’s own muddled thought, or a cynical lie intended to boost his chances for the HoF, or a cynical lie Bud Selig or the Union or his lawyer wanted him to say, who knows? I don’t care, since I like McGwire anyway. He loves baseball; worked hard; and seems a good team-mate.
It sounds like Jay McGwire encountered a religious awakening. If so, this can be Jay’s rationale for shooting his mouth off. Jay may think its spiritually uplifting to tell the full truth, as he Jay understands it. Mark’s spirits are uplifted to be back in the Clubhouse. Good for him.
As both a dad and a son I know that when a son comes to the point of having to face the old man and admit something that bespeaks a failure of character, it doesn’t matter if the dad already knew or suspected the truth. It’s a miserable experience for both, but also necessary for closure, so one can move on.
When I read that exept, I didn’t take it to mean Mark thought his father didn’t know.
I don’t care about what’s in the book, and am tired of the etical debate and effect on baseball debate. The aspect that interests me is that the story has kept the team in the national news all winter and still is. The book may give it legs for a while longer. If it is not too much distraction for the team, then perhaps its OK for the story to hang around.
As to RC’s point. anybody who knowingly impedes,mistreats or embarreses my wife or kids is not welcome in my house. If one is critical of another’s behavior, they can keep their mouth shut in public. Jay is either POS human being, or all the dope has scrambled his brain.
A religious awakening? I hear that. Was he wearing Black Nike shoes, blue jeans, and did he get a bowl cut haircut? If so he may be one of the remaining members of the heavens gate religious group who drank a little kool aid and went to meet jesus in the tail of the Hale Bop comet. Thats the only type of religious awakening that would cause a person to continue to attack his brother.
Hear hear Bling.
Mark calling his Dad and informing him about what he was going to reveal to the press does not seem an inappropriate act, on Mark’s part. Just seems the right thing to do. Its great that Mark did so.
Over the last couple of decades, a great number of baseball players and other athletes have benefited their bods by the combination of PEDs and weight training. Athletes try to improve their abilities; it is the essence of their lives.
Even if McGwire had never been born, the spread of PEDs would have happenned; McGwire did not bring it about. It was part of a broad social trend, spawned by greater biochemical knowledge and by unmonitored opportunity.
Yea, What Jumbo said.
True enough, Jumbo, but it’s also true that Mark McGwire was a walking recruiting poster for the efficacy of PEDs, and someone who earned tens of millions of dollars and worldwide fame because of those drugs.
Game of Shadows and other books and articles have detailed how the success of McGwire and Sosa was the impetus for Barry Bonds. There weren’t any innocent bystanders.
The open question right now is which of these guys is lying about when Mac started juicing. I believe they’ve all mentioned different timetables. IIRC, Canseco says it was late ’80s, Mac says early ’90s, and Jay is very specific about 1993. I don’t have time to look it up, but I hope some enterprising sportswriter puts the competing claims in a grid so we can compare and contrast. Mac’s stat sheet doesn’t show a clear pattern until ’95, but even Mac admits he started before then.
Lou, I respect your choice about what interests you. Personnaly, I can’t see what difference it makes exactly. I understand that the year he started can influence the question of how much power and how many home runs may have been attributable and all that. But I am 100% sure that whatever the facts are about when he started, there will be no more agreement on the baseball issues than there is now. In other words, whatever reasons someone may have for wanting those answers, it won’t resolve the baseball questions. IMO.
By the way, would you share any comments on Jay writing the book in the first place?
link to audio of McGwire’s reaction (8:00)
would you share any comments on Jay writing the book in the first place?
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In my experience, everybody wants to write a book, but in this environment it’s nearly impossible to get a deal unless you have either a proven sales record or a news hook. Jay Mac had a news hook, and I guess he needed the money. He’s been estranged from his brother since the tickling incident. From Jay’s POV, he had lots to gain and nothing to lose.
My first guess is that he won’t make a lot of money — he went with a niche sports-book publisher in Chicago, which suggests the book was turned down by the big publishing houses — and his current Amazon rank doesn’t suggest big sales. If his book is in the 3,000 range with all the publicity he’s getting right now, it’ll be over 100,000 the minute he’s out of the headlines. (For the sake of comparison, two of my books are currently in the top 3,500. One of them has been in print for more than 6 years.)
And, again, that’s with a volume of free publicity that 99.9% of published authors can never hope to get.
My second guess is that he’ll eventually regret the notoriety that comes with being the guy who ratted out his own brother. It’s better to be obscure with dignity.
Yea. Appreciate it Lou.
On an off topic note, the Brewers MLB blog ,Brewcrew, mentioned that Jimmy Edmonds will face live pitching Friday morning for the first time since 08. He’s gotten in some work at first base, although Fielder plays 162 so far. Also, the Brewers look to have an all lefty bench whether Jimmy makes the team or not.
A lot of recent concerns about PEDs in baseball owe to Jose Canseco’s book or books. Canseco decided to seek money from blowing the whistle on PEDs in his generation of athletes. Because Jose played many years in Oakland and because McGwire was famous too, McGwire was included in the book(s).
McGwire could have written a book confessing to PED use and ratting out Canseco and others. But he did not. Mark is not big on trying to make others look bad. He retired from the game and was living a private life, when the Canseco book made him a tempting target for politicians looking to advance their own careers. It seems worth remembering Canseco’s book, when Jay publishes his own effort to help himself by writing about his older brother.
On the tape at the Globe, It was hard to hear it all. Mark seemed to say his family is normal, siblings have differences, but its best to settle them inside the family. Seems reasonable.
It just another nail in his coffin……………………… good part about that, he’s not in it. And that coffin looks to make a nice raft.(Moby Dick) MM is doing good works. It will payoff for him. He needs to start over one way or another……….. knowing who’s with you and who’s against doesn’t hurt. His brother is doing the right thing for Mark…….not himself which is an unfortunate aspect of this mess.
This story made this site the FOXSports.com’s Blog of the Day once again.
See under Ken Rosenthal’s smiling mug on the lower left of http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb. The entry is “The McGwire brother book drama”. Of course, their link will just take you right back here!
Welcome to the new arrivals from FOXSports.com and Yardbarker!
Now that we have our national audience back, I would like to begin by saying that the lessons of all the great teachers, from Jesus to Jumbo Shrimp, all speak of forgiveness and compassion for the downtrodden. Our brother Mark has been lead down the road to temptation. By his own brother its seems. All of our concerns for Mark are seemingly weighed against our personal needs and requirements to faithfully worship our game. The thrill of senses awakened by the smell of pine tar and horsehide, singed and burned by maple, in an endless evasion of evil cowhide snares, longs for the guiltless pleasures of beer foam mustaches and a realistic concern about the appearance of yet another basket of garlic fries.
All Cardinal fans on this must agree. We seek an end to these old testament retributions by purists, who in there cruel search for a virginity that exceeds even the lust and pettiness that go with our shared desire to mistreat all who wear Cubs hats and jerseys. We all live in this moment. Mark is reborn here as a hitting coach……..because he is good at it………not because he searches for forgiveness about a past that he acknowledges is too flawed for further recognition of its achievements…………………….Follow your teams. Get to the series. We’ll be waiting.
Westie, you are in fine form on McGwire. Your national audience will be very appreciative.
Nice job Brian. I think I remember some commenter saying the McGwire story keeping the national media’s attention might be useful. Wow, that commenter rocks.
I would say, ” go ahead and get in there a clean up the grammar and the spelling on my post……………. but then there wouldn’t be anything left.
Bling you have your fingers on the pulse of America. Congrats.
WC, I would be big time against cleaning up those grammatical tidbits you mentioned. You would just be Jumbo Shrimp if that happened.
Rob Rains is trying his hand at fiction according to the Globe site. He and Andy Van Slyke are writing a baseball novel about the Cubs. That will be worth reading. Supposed to come out later this summer.
on Lopez
This has been a season for unusual contract structures. 30 teams can’t figure out a way to utilize a 300+ switch hitting middle infielder. The Cardinals sign K Green with danger signs all over his body and life. Badly burned the Cardinals let go after trashing 6 mill. And then the Rangers try to sign him!!!!
Clearly all 30 teams aren’t smart. Clearly not all are broke. Chances are, there is another issue here. Something league wide that supersedes stupidity. Scott Boras is gone. That ain’t it. We’ve heard allot of + and – that assumes that baseball teams are very discriminating all of a sudden in assignment of morals and player behavior expectations. Oops! Very uniform. Lets see. Know the answer?
Its already out, never mind…………….this is an interesting development as it pertains to Albert…
Its a positive thing I think. Lugo is the one most effected by this. And then Shu. That ends it for a few player I would guess.
Ruben who? Guess Yadi’s pal got bumped by the guy from Albert’s agency…
Many thing remain to be seen. Ruben might survive and Lugo is shipped out for relief pitching. Its a logical and yet surprising move. Its the winning move. They have 5 weeks to work with him. That’s positive.
I guess Bud’s putting in the fix for Lopez to the Brewers didn’t work out.
There is that appearance. Lets watch for a few days. It is curious that so many teams stayed away for so long. Almost like Holiday. I’m watching with interest. Lopez will is going to change allot of things around here.
Lopez is a $5mM player who signed fore $1.75MM plus incentives. Thats a good deal for Mo. The market must be really, really dead.
Freese is going to be sitting on the bench. No way he starts over a vet like Lopez.
The Cards get another left swinger to go with Skip and Colby. This provides more lineup balance. Lopez bats 2nd:
Skip, Felipe, Albert, Holliday, Rasmus, Ludwick, Molina, pitcher, Ryan
This is great news. I’m very excited to hear about this signing. I don’t know if he has the power to start at 3B every day, but you do know that LaRussa has to be thrilled with getting a multi-positional player back. It makes the roster much more flexible.
I’m not so sure Jumbo. Freese may be a player. Lopez is insurance against struggling players. He can play right. He can push Shu to center if Colby doesn’t move runners. He is a superior hitter. He will start 4/5 times a week somewhere. I hate that it gives Tony to many options. I can’t see how they would keep Lugo now.
Lopez shrinks the roster slots by one. Who gets more work at Memphis is yet to be determined.
Lopez is a good on base percentage hitter, so would fit well batting second.
He also is a switch-hitter whose addition makes the Cards match up better against right-handers. This is vital, since there are many more RHPs than LHPs.
Lopez began as a SS, but not be a not so good defender there, since he has shifted to 2B. However, after shifting Skip to 2B and giving him a two year deal, it seems unlikely he would be asked to be the 4th OF, though this is not completely out of the question.
Lopez is an everyday hitter and while he might offer flexibility, TLR is going to want to settle him as a regular somewhere. The likeliest spot is 3B. This is the position now open. Lopez provides a reliable bat and has an advantage over Freese in being established at the ML level and giving better balance to the lineup against RHPs.
Lugo is not necessarily on the way out, unless TLR did not like the job he did in 09. Lugo could still play 2B against some LHPs and play backup SS and be a vet pinch-hitter.
Lopez does not hurt Mather, since he was never going to make the roster at 3B anyway. If he can display recovery from injury, Joe can be a reserve OF.
Lopez reduces ABs for Freese. Since Freese only plays 3B, he could wind up back at Memphis, because hard for a rookie to establish himself as a hitter when on the bench. Another guy who could return to Memphis is Greene, whose chances as a reserve had looked good, because of versatility.
Lopez had a better year than 2B Orlando Hudson, who signed recently with the Twins for $5MM. Its a steep drop from $5MM to $1.75MM, a sign of the times. My guess is with makeable incentives, Lopez will be able to earn up to $5MM. If so, the Cards have been able to shift injury risk to the player, but do not mind paying Felipe for good performance.
One player who gains from the signing of Lopez is Rasmus. With high on base percentage players Schumaker, Felipe, Pujols, and Holliday in a row, there are going to be great RBI opportunities for Ludwick and Rasmus.
Before Lopez, it was just Skip and Rasmus from the left side. That put a lot of burden on Rasmus, a young player. Now there is less and he is put in a better situation to thrive.
Not insignificant that Lopez’s base is less than Shu’s. Avoids the cntraversy of starting the lower paid player.
I disagree this doesn’t hurt Mather. I think Lopez will become the backup CF (particularly against a lot of lefties). Backup 3B – check, Backup CF, check. Yeah, this hurts Mather.
Lopez is not a typical 3Bman. But the Cards had Terry Pendleton in the mid-1980s, a converted 2Bman and switch-hitter. Also in 2005, after an injury to Rolen, Abe Nunez, a light-hitting switch-hitting reserve middle infielder did a solid job at 3B. Felipe has not played much 3B, but the Cards have seen him and must think he has enough glove and arm to defend the position.
The leading candidates for the 5 reserve slots are LaRue, Lugo, Jay, Craig or Mather, and Freese or Greene.
The reasons why Lopez does not hurt Mather is because Mather was never a serious candidate for 3B. Mather gets mentioned for 3B by reporters and by Tony, who likes to babble about a lot of possibiliites each spring. That is all background noise. Mather has not played infield since Johnson City, enough said.
Mather had injuries that made 2009 a lost season. His biggest hurdle is to show he can get back to driving the ball the way he did in 2008. Big guys often take a while to warm up, so this is a very high burden of proof for Mather to achieve during just spring training. The odds are against him. If this happens, he will need to go to Memphis and excel in a couple hundred at bats, to re-establish himself.
Mather would have been the 2009 opening day 3B if he had not gotten hurt — nuff said.
Freese will get first shot at the 3B job. He’d have to tank bad not to be on the opening day roster.
I am not writing off Freese’s chances so quickly nor do I think Mather at third was or is window-dressing.
Jay is also a loser in this deal. He can still make the club but viously the was the only LH bench bat option. If Lopez can play CF this really hurts his chances.
Another reason I don’t see Lopez as the regular 3B is that it diminishes his value as both a LH bench bat and his flexibility.
Jay has two useful attributes that serve his chances of making the roster as a backup: he provides a lefty pinch-hitter and can cover CF. If Jay makes the team, he would provide the 2nd best defensive center fielder, better than Ludwick or Mather, two other alternatives.
In 2008, TLR played Lopez (and Adam Kennedy) a time or two in the OF. Why? He preferred to give these veterans at bats rather than giving the at bats to rookie OFs. Later, TLR released Kennedy, hardly a vote of confidence in several rookie OFs.
I doubt TLR would want to use an established player like Felipe as a new Hector Luna, moving him around the field, a jack of all trades. TLR will want to give Lopez stabillity, as befits a vet, and the most obvious place is 3B. So even if Lopez could play CF a game or two, in a pinch, I doubt TLR would platoon him with Rasmus. If Greene made the team, he would be more likely as a platoon CF, since a fast runner who can cover ground (and the Cards tried Greene in CF for 6 innings last September).
The Cards like competitions. They do not handing a starting job to a rookie. Rookies often need to play well to make their way onto the ML roster. So it seems with Jaime Garcia, for instance. Hill and McClellan would need to be pretty weak and Garcia pretty good for him to grab the 5th rotation slot.
Similarly with Freese and Lopez. We shall find out more, soon enough, if Lopez passes his physical. Felipe has not played much 3B during his career, so he will need to practice the position during spring training. If the Cards only train Lopez at 2B, then the implication would be Schumaker is the 4th OF.
Freese will get at bats during spring training, a chance to show what he can do. Yet the Lopez signing clearly makes his situation more competitive. Before Lopez, the 3B job was Freese’s to lose. Now the situation is much more competitive.
Mo states that he does not see Lopez as competition for Freese. Had to make deal now or Lopez would be gone after this weekend.
TLR and Mo audio on Lopez this morning.
Ken Rosenthal says deal is $1 million base plus $1.2 million of easily attainable options.
Jumbo, you doubt that LaRussa would want to use an established player as a jack of all trades? Are we talking about the same manager? That audio clip reinforces the fact that LaRussa is going to move the guy around plenty unless competition disappeared at one particular position.
“Mo states that he does not see Lopez as competition for Freese”.
There are two things that shold be said about that right up front.
First. Ha ha ha ha ha . Oh….ha ha ha ha. Good one Mo.
Second. Mo said at winter warm-up, while standing twenty feet from me, that the line-up is not his department. If that is true as to Colby, it is equally true as to Freese and Lopez.
There are a number of things that can be speculated upon. But leaving that for later, I wanted to mention something else. Of the eight positions, four are held down by established and high priced veterans. LF, RF, 1B, C. Of the other four, Lopez can probably out hit the guys who have those jobs, and do an adequate job at least fielding those positions.
Of course, even if Jesus showed up with a glove wanting to play 2B, Tony will have Skip out there against righties. Other than that, all those guys better not let themselves get out-played.
Lastly, if Flip shows up one day with a black eye, it might be supposed that a discussion was had on the subject of attitude and work ethic. The cover story will be amusing though.
Nutlaw, right now, it seems politically astute or warranted to say Lopez is a “utility man” who will play everywhere.
I factor some practical realities: Lopez has been an everyday player and is going to play somewhere. TLT is not going to move him all around, day by day. Mo mentions Felipe in relation to their need for a left handed bat, a point I have made.
Felipe may not get 628 at bats again, but its hard to imagine him getting less than 500, barring injury. Is he going to displace Albert or Matt or Molina? No. Has Felipe ever played CF? No.
Could he play LF or RF, if needed? Yes. Could he play 2B? Yes. Could he play SS? Yes for a while, though the Reds, Nationals, Cards, Brewers, and Diamondbacks seemed happier with him at 2B.
That brings us around to the one unsettled position, 3B. The Cards apparently do not want to say Felipe is the new 3Bman, because this would discourage Freese and be disrespectful.
Before Lopez, it was Freese, maybe backed by Greene, for 162 games, both right swingers, when the Cards need more from the left.
What is the best case scenario for Freese? He plays great in spring training and earns a platoon with Lopez at 3B, like Barden and Thurston last year. If he continues to hit southpaws when the games count, Freese might get 40 starts, plus pinch-hits. If Schumaker, Lugo, Ryan, or someone else gets hurt, Lopez could move elsewhere, if Freese is playing well. Lopez gives some flexibility. But if everyone stays well, he will get some at bats at 3B. Freese could not get on last years roster against the Dodgers, even though Glaus was clearly hapless.
Jumbo, Lopez does not get 500 Ab’s unless one of Ryan, Shu, or Freese is hurt for over half the season – bank on it!
So we can disrespect Lopez by saying he’s not a starter but we can’t disrespect Freese? Jumbo, your PC, lap dog act is getting itself confused.
I got up listening to Choros No 10 by Villa Lobos, CC. Wonderful performance in the Sao Paulo opera house…………….. 8.8 must have at least given you a shake on your side. Can you see the beach from your apartment by the way?
Lopez would never play center. Tony would bump Ludwick over or push Shoemaker out………………. Lets be frank. 1million base salary with a deadline? Where was he going, the International league. If that isn’t a symbolic “creative contract”, I don’t know what is. It would appear that Albert’s excellent behavior and Lozano’s acknowledgments stem form their talks with BD. That can only be good I think.
One of the things these numbers do is acknowledge that Lopez was damaged goods somehow, and that the risk was all the Cardinals. Thus the larger figure on incentives. A model contract, serving many purposes.
Anyone care to mention how many players this off season had any bidding or competition for services involved? Maybe something that raised the profit for player/agent a dollar or two. Don’t count Penny of Holiday because that didn’t happen.
Carioca, since you are so wise, how come Freese could not make the roster against the Dodgers, while Glaus struck out twice?
Why do you believe that Freese will outrank an established hitter like Lopez?
And you need to keep me separate from Mo and TLR. They are politicians. They do not want to belittle Freese by saying we signed somebody in lieu of you, when Mo was recently saying he was comfy with Freese being his guy. Do you expect Mo to recant this in one day? So Mo and Tony have come up with their “utility man” description for Felipe. Felipe does not care, he is just glad to get on a roster. Plus Felipe knows this is just corporate spin for the masses and he Felipe is going to be getting 500+ at bats, bar injury. So whatever Mo or Tony spin does not really matter (if you are Felipe or Jumbo).
Carioca, you could be prone to take these guys literally. This is not a bad quality in anyone. Very endearing. Me, I like Mo and I like Tony, maybe much more than yourself, but I still believe they are slippery rascals.
Jumbo, I find it perfectly reasonable for Felipe Lopez to potentially be moved around from position to position day by day. Again, noting the history of LaRussa, what makes this unreasonable in your mind? Two seasons ago, he bounced around from position to position every day for the Cardinals.
However, it is very clear that Felipe Lopez will cut into at least some of David Freese’s playing time. I’m with you there, Jumbo.
Jumbo, Mo (and to a certain extent Tony) are publicly invested in Freese – they’ve got to follow through now with giving him first crack. Besides, Lopez isn’t really a 3B nor does he have the power they would prefer from the position.
Why Glauss over Freese? Playoff experience I’d guess. If we were going into the playoffs April 1st, it might be Lopez over Freese — but we are not.
If Lopez is doing .300+, I hope he does get 500 ABs. I don’t mean to disrespect anyone, but if somebody is hitting .260 he doesn’t have any business pissing and moaning about getting sat in favor of a .300 hitter. Of course, Mo would think, what happens next year when Flip is rehabilitated and wants big bucks and multiple years, and my cheap young guys have not established themselves because they got sat. That is not Tony’s problem. His job is to win now.
The answer, of course, for the young guys is to outplay Felipe. He hits .300, hit .310. He OPS’s .800, OPS .825. He looks good in the field, you look great. That’s how it has always been trying to break in and get established.
Westie, I’m in the North of Brazil at the moment and felt nothing. Since it was off shore and there is a mountain range in between I doubt anything was felt in Rio.
My apartment in Rio is beach friendly (though I have no view), where I am at now it is a 20 minute walk or 4 minutes by car.
“I like to be in that lineup. I don’t care,” said Lopez. “I can play everything. That’s the right answer, right?”
If you can’t read that statement???? The politics of the Lopez signing has lots of conditions. In the end, this is part of the Albert negotiation. Deal with it. The baseball thing will work itself out. I wouldn’t underestimate Freese as a player. Tony has no reason to undermine him in any way. He might do fine. Its the competition to stay with Chicago that will determine all these factors.
Nutlaw, Lopez has played a lot of years in the majors. He hit about .351 in front of TLR for a couple of months. Lopez went about 10th in the nation in his amateur year group. He is in his prime. As a switch-hitter, he can play almost everyday and the Cards need him against RHPs.
When the Cards had Lopez in 2008, it was for the dog days of August and Sept. He and Kennedy may have played some corner OF, since other guys were hurt. TLR is not going to urn Lopez into a new Hector Luna, an offensively limited player used in diverse support capacities and who did not get a lot of at bats. The Cards are paying Holliday and Ludwick more money to handle corner OF. So Lopez the infielder is going to find work in the infield. If he starts the season at SS over Greene and Lugo and if Ryan returns quickly, where is Felipe going to play?
CC, TLR is hierarchical. Glaus was physically broken last October, but the vet got the playoff roster, not the healthy Freese.
If Lopez makes a lot of errors at unfamiliar 3B, Freese could wind up with a lot of at bats. However, If everybody stays healthy and if Lopez is not a defensive disaster, Freese could be looking at a platoon, as best case scenario. No big deal. He’s just a rookie.
Bernie article and interview is so loaded with information about what is going on that it would be unfair to start talking about select statements and there implications. Study it a little and ask yourself a few questions. “Things that I control and things I don’t,” is one of the good ones, but not the most interesting.
Jumbo, a scenario in which Lopez played multiple positions would not turn him into a defensive sub. He could very well start at 2B against LHP, play a couple of games at 3B a week, start a game a week at SS to rest Ryan, and very occasionally man LF or RF when Holliday or Ludwick needs a breather.
There are numerous examples of talented everyday players who don’t stick to one position day after day. Ben Zobrist with Tampa. Kevin Youkilis and Victor Martinez with Boston. Our old buddy Mark DeRosa for most of his career. Again: playing multiple positions does not make one a backup. Intelligent managers can move players around to keep their team rested without giving unnecessary starts to players at the bottom of the bench.
Nutlaw, I am not sure we are so far apart here. However, I would note that Felipe Lopez has incentives in his contract, whereas a rookie like Freese does not. If the two men are even in their performance, and this could surprise you, the Cards will play the guy with incentives, because they seem to play nice with the Union.
Lopez has played more than 1,000 games in the majors. In 2007, he played 8 in LF for the hapless Nationals and 8 for StL when Tony stuck him out there in September, since we were short of bodies, owing to so many injuries. The guy has spent his life in middle infield, SS primarily, shifted to 2B in recent years. He is likely to spend most of 2010 playing IF. We will want to have a couple of backup OFs and Tony will want to give them some starts, to keep them sharp. He likes to use everybody.
A genuine question is whether Felipe can defend 3rd. He played 13 games there for the Cards, during which he made 2 errors. If he played 130 games, would he rack up 20 and would this be acceptable? Can Lopez do a lot of fielding at 3B? If he cannot, Freese to can carry more of the load.
Lopez could platoon R/L with Schumaker and Freese. This would limit at bats for Lugo, no huge loss. Lopez could start 150 games, make his incentives, and put himself in position for a better contract next winter. This seems the likeliest outcome, barring injuries.
Mo’s dry powder is in tact and he’s plugged a lot of holes, made the team a lot stronger and resistant to tanking due to injury. Nice job.
Not to long ago somebody here said 1/3 sounded too low for Lopez, and that opinion seemed perfectly sound at the time. At least I didn’t argue with it. So 1/2.2, which this will be unless he flatlines, is a nice bargain. Tony and Albert wouldn’t have gone for this guy if they thought he’d be a clubhouse problem.
It might also provide Mo with some flexibility later as far as a trade to fill a need somewhere. If just about any starter got traded, Flip and a good looking rookie might handle it ok.
I don’t think we need Lugo and Gotay.
In 2009, Lopez made $3.5MM, had a good season but is looking at between $1MM to 2.9MM, depending on which rumor to believe. This illustrates how weak the market for players is. Lots of teams must be looking to cutback salary costs. Because the Cards had savings from Glaus, Wellemeyer, Ankiel, and Pineiro, they have been able to fund a big off-season (Holliday, Penny, Lopez).
“Lopez felt he became more marketable earlier this month after moving on from the Scott Boras Corporation to Beverly Hills Sports Council. Lopez said he contemplated the move after the 2008 season but reconsidered.
“Last year I almost made the change. I gave it another year and things didn’t change,” he said. “You can’t stay somewhere and have them keep doing the same thing to you, right?”
“You can’t stay somewhere? Have them do the same thing”? This statement is rich with information. These are the problems that players have when they have a market advocate like SB representing them………………………….. the “contemplated the move after 2008″ is a loaded statement. He is suggesting that he believes the Lohse contract and tensions surrounding it, were the obstacle that kept the Cards from resigning him. There is truth in that, but that ignores the mysteries surrounding Cardinal expenditures pre-2009. Boras got him his worth with AZ. He wasn’t offered anything for reasons more complex than the Boras/BD tiff.
There is some denial here.
In a healthy job market, a second baseman like Lopez should make $4MM or more. Orlando Hudson landed $5MM from the Twins. Scott Boras is going to push for the top of the wage scale for his guys. Its his way. Some players may get hurt by this, others will be helped.
Felipe must not want to push the salary envelope. He must want to sign early and know he has a job, no stress. So when Boras was insisting on a good contract in a weak labor market, Felipe must have been left behind. He caved, fired Boras, and took what he could get from the team he wanted to return to. Alls well that ends well.
Here is another reason why the Cards are billing Felipe as a jack of all trades. Mo must have told the Beverly Hills agents that the Cards felt ok, with the team they had. The Cards felt going into the season with Freese at 3B. This caused Lopez to lower his price, a lot. He just wanted to play.
The Cards do not to turn around the next day and say we signed Felipe Lopez to play 3B, because that could be construed as slightly tricking the Beverly Hills agent and Mr. Lopez. Lopez did not sign for the paycheck of a regular player. He signed for a backup’s price, so he got introduced as Mr. positionless Flexibility. This is good for preserving face. But knowing TLR, once the season begins, Lopez is going to play a lot and look like a regular.
bb, you may be just one injury away from being glad you have Lugo…
Some of what you say is true Jumbo. Unfortunately, very little is probably more descriptive. There are nuances Jumbo that when understood, can lead to panoramic views of MLB. If we didn’t depend on an evolving dialog and a practiced understanding, we would all be writing endless justifications for our needed perspectives. There are quite a number of interesting people that read here, Jumbo. Impress them. You make your view very well known. I understand your thinking completely. Be sure you preface your statements with “this is how Jumbos sees the question of etc;?” least lazy people think your actually clarifying a point will your volumes of detailed observations. Maybe we can enjoy more national attention that way. And that’s good, isn’t it?
I meant to say ‘both’ Lugo and Gotay. Oops.
I like Jumbo’s point about carrying on like we have a starter everywhere to get Flip for ‘depth guy’ price. That might even be true in Mo land, but we know Tony.
It might sound wierd, but I feel like having Lopez improves Craig’s chance of making the team. We can afford to carry him now I think. However it shakes out, we won’t be sending .220 basket cases out on deck with the game on the line. That was sick.
So figure Freese at 3rd, and Lopez and Lugo on the bench, and Larue. What is the rest of the bench likely to be? Don’t know that we need a middle infield type.
WC, with guidance from bling and others, I am predicting a very strong, breakout season from you in 2010!!
Westy, Flip’s decision to flush Scottie seems like more than getting tangled up in Boras’s strategeries and all your various dark ops.
Lopez is 29, he needs to settle in. He needs to be looking at something other than wringing out the last dollar from whoever each winter. He saw where that road leads this year. I would bet he could have signed for more somewhere else. If he’d stayed with Boras, he’d be a Padre or something like that, pulling his hair out, and watching the postseason at home.
For a guy trying to rehabilitate his career, St. Louis will be a good place to play this year for a lot of reasons. Maybe getting a few hundred AB’s ahead of Albert? He should be paying Mo.
This is just a picture of Red and Shannon down in Jupiter. Brian, if you happen to run into Leach, tell him some guy especially appreciated him posting it.
http://yourenotagolfer.mlblogs.com/Feb-26-workout-022.jpg
I have no needs BB……………………. What I said is the way it is. Its what Lopez was saying in the quotes, if you know the background. Its fine to see it like Jumbo. Problem is, once you get the square peg in the round whole, the game stops being educational. You stop making connection beyond a false premise. Its not about answer. Its about question that resolve into the next logical inquiry.
Dark Opps?????????? Don’t ever look into a microscope BB. It will frighten you.
Example………………“Lopez felt he became more marketable earlier this month after moving on from the Scott Boras Corporation to Beverly Hills Sports Council. Lopez said he contemplated the move after the 2008 season but reconsidered”
Lopez left Cinnci after a bad year……….. signed with Washington who released him in 2008. Nothing but trouble. Cardinals take him…….he is paid the minimum for 6 weeks. Hits well. Iffy defense……………………… and he is thinking about offing Boras?????????? Boras got him well paid opportunities that he screwed up……..each and every one. The statement is bogus. Washington took a bath on his contract just to get rid of him….. He is blaming Boras because he thinks Lohse was being sold to St. Louis by Boras and he was not………Bogus statement. He wanted to play in ST Louis, but he though Boras once again created bad blood in front of him with Holiday this year. Not true. St. Louis wasn’t buying him at any price Things change when Albert came to camp praising this Cardinal team. What do you think Pujols means when hes says, “thing that are in my power, and things that are not”? Albert is doing everything he can to endear himself to the fans……………..so he won’t be traded. The foundation of the market for him is based in St. Louis. That’s what he can control………what can’t he control? He just can’t consent to BD’s price? Whats he saying?
[...] this week when the news of Jay McGwire’s new book dominated sports page headlines and his older brother Mark called it “a sad day” for the [...]
All very imaginative Westie, though there are some things we can agree on.
Boras did well by Lopez for his 2007-8 contract. He moved him to StL after released by Washington and Lopez played well. The Cards wanted to retain him, but were too cheap. If they chose to spend on Lohse, it is their decision, not Boras. The Diamondbacks were high bidders at $3.5MM, so it is reasonable he went there. After a strong 2009, Boras would have sought a raise.
The problem must be a very difficult job market. One sign of it being a difficult market is the Cards being high bidders on Holliday, an amazing outcome. 2B is not a high value position and it turned out there were too many job seekers than buyers. Its amazing Lopez had to settle for $1MM to $2.2MM, when he should get $4MM+. Boras probably would have held out until April. Lopez wanted a deal sooner, so dumped Boras. It was his choice. Players hire and fire agents all the time. Its no big deal.
When he shows up, Felipe says he wanted to be here all along. Guys say stuff like that all the time. Its no big deal.
The Cards are not trying to trade Pujols. The only person who talks about trading Pujols tends to be you. Albert is saying he lets his agent handle the business stuff, while he Albert handles the business end of the baseball bat. That’s all.
A veritable ejaculation of reason Jumbo……………..Lets leave it stand (don’t wash your hands).
Lugo will receive ample work this spring but his in-season role appears to be at least slightly diminished. General manager John Mozeliak said Saturday he believes it is “doable” to retain both Lopez and Lugo; however, Mozeliak would appear to now possess leverage to trade if he (or Lugo) desires.
Lugo entered camp hopeful of receiving a shot at a starting job. With Lopez now in camp, that possibility appears significantly diminished.
“What I said [about Lugo] is what I’m concerned about because I know he’s that type of player,” La Russa said, referring to Lugo’s desire for heavy playing time. “I’m not saying it’s going to be an issue for us.”
Doable??????? “I’m not saying it’s going to be an issue for us.”
This is how Mo and Tony are working together at this point. They know they have a problem with Lugo’s disposition, so they are offering said disposition an opportunity to ask for a trade. That would make everyone look reasonable. It’s also an advertisement for solicitations.
Lugo is doing his part Westy. “I always play for 30 teams,” Lugo said.
Lugo has, I think, proven to be worth more than the minimum, so Mo will of course want to recoup some of that cash he had to send to Boston. Wouldn’t it be sweet if he got enough to cover Lopez’s base.
And who knows, maybe Yadi’s friend Gotay will get brought back up from the back lot.
Funny as it may seem, the Gotay complication may be a motivator. They will get a prospect. It will be a disposal. BB, I could care less about what they spend or save.
http://www.flixxy.com/hubble-ultra-deep-field-3d.htm
here is a little perspective.
The Rangers have decided they need to bring in a utility infielder to replace Khalil on the roster, and they also need a corner infielder type with a little pop from the right side. Hmmm. They are looking at Lugo, supposedly, and also maybe at Lowell. They only saved .75M on Khalils contract, and I doubt the Red Sox will strap enough cash to Lowell’s back to make him affordable, if they even want to trade him any more. So the Rangers are looking for a cheap corner infield type, in addition to a Lugo type.
The Rangers have a plethora of cheap young RHRP on their 40 man, more than they can realistically carry. I don’t know if any of them are good.
So, maybe Mo is on that.
Heard Jay on the radio today plugging his book for free curtesy 101.1 FM, the local ESPN station. Jay says he is a loving brother hoping for reconcilliation, and he found God so now he just wants to help people.
President Jimmie Carter had a brother Billie, who sold beer and hired on with a foreign dictator, no great credit to his family. President Bill Clinton had an iffy brother, Roger. Anybody famous, including McGwire, must be fair game for someone close to write a book. Too bad it is not written by a witty author like Twain.
Bling wrote,
“Heard Jay on the radio today plugging his book for free curtesy 101.1 FM, the local ESPN station. Jay says he is a loving brother hoping for reconcilliation, and he found God so now he just wants to help people.”
I imagine he will lose sight of God just as soon as the book sales lose their steam. I’m sure God came to Jay in a dream and said, “goeth forward Jay, and setteth the record straight in regards to thou brother and his steroid usageth. Oh Jay, maketh sure thou chargest $19.99 when thou setteth the record straight. ”
Ridiculous.
“Keepeth thy mouth shut, and geteth a real job.”
Jay’s book has dropped to 25,000+ on Amazon’s list already, headed toward Lou’s predicted 100,000+. He is doing well though in the roid star shirt-tale cash-in derby. Jessica Canceco’s book is at 150,000+, but its been out a while.
On another thread, Jumbo proclaimed global warming dead, but honest Al’s book is holding at 4000+. For comparison, The Hollow Earth by Raymond Bernard,ranks way down at 300,000+. I read it over the winter while Jumbo was wasting time with Twain, and can attest to its entertainment value. “…This controversial book claims that flying saucers not only exist, but that they are the vehicles of a super-race that lives in a huge, underground world whose entrance is in the earth’s North Pole.” So I would have to dispute Jumbo’s position, and side with Westy (as to global warming and Twain). Granted, maybe Al’s stature lends staying power.
Global Warming is already crashing like the Hindenberg. http://www.gallup.com/poll/126560/Americans-Global-Warming-Concerns-Continue-Drop.aspx
The issue only has still more downside potential. The science has been ripped to shreds, several surface temperature data bases are cross-contaminated and unreliable. This is why Al tried to re-brand it as Climate Change and then Green Energy. They are trying to change the label, since they know the scientific foundation is junk. Republicans used to assume some small amount of underlying merit, however now its becoming a litmus test to laugh at the nonsense.