Trying to make the St. Louis Cardinals rotation in 2010, Kyle McClellan’s results in his first two major league camps were dramatically different.
On KTRS Radio 550’s Hot Stove show Thursday evening, St. Louis Cardinals pitcher Kyle McClellan discussed his winter preparation for the 2010 season. While the right-hander is preparing for the second consecutive winter to come to camp as a starter, the difference this time is that his fate of remaining in the rotation will be in his own hands.
One year ago, McClellan was the safety net for Chris Carpenter, whose status was somewhat uncertain as the ace was coming off various ailments, most recently nerve transposition surgery in his elbow in November 2008. This time around, the 25-year-old has to be considered the front-runner for the fifth spot in the rotation, vacated by unsigned John Smoltz and another now ex-Cardinal, Todd Wellemeyer.
Though his four-pitch arsenal and two years of major league relief experience are clear assets, McClellan doesn’t yet own the job. His competitors will include veteran Rich Hill, as well as farm system prospects Jaime Garcia, P.J. Walters and perhaps Mitchell Boggs, all with a bit of MLB time themselves.
In his radio spot, McClellan mentioned he took off 15 pounds over the winter and focused on increasing his lower body strength. He is among the first wave of arrivals in Cardinals camp in Jupiter, Florida, almost two weeks ahead of the mandatory reporting date, reports Joe Strauss in a Post-Dispatch blog entry.
While trained in the minor leagues as a starter, McClellan’s elbow problems in 2005 and 2006 drove him into a relief role with Palm Beach then Springfield upon his return in 2007. He began with Tommy John elbow ligament replacement surgery followed by nerve transposition surgery the following season (a procedure done two years later on both Carpenter and Albert Pujols).
Despite never having appeared above Double-A, a strong and surprising performance in 2008 spring training camp (1.38 ERA in 13 innings) opened the way for McClellan to make the major league squad. He never returned to the minor leagues.
Perhaps it was the uncertainty of his role a year ago, but his spring 2009 performance was quite the opposite. In fact, I seriously wondered at the time if McClellan would have made the Cardinals opening day roster had he not sufficiently proven himself in his rookie season of 2008.
Last spring, he had just one start and made eight other Florida appearances in relief. McClellan was hit hard and often for 17 earned runs on 23 hits and eight walks in 17 innings. The math worked out to a tidy, though unsightly 9.00 ERA. In his defense, McClellan’s March troubles did not follow him north for the regular season as he slipped back into his familiar relief role.
We will see between now and the start of April if McClellan is able to follow the clear path in front of him and solidify that fifth spot in the Cardinals rotation. While we don’t yet know for sure what his personal Plan “B” will be, if McClellan doesn’t make the rotation, I suspect he will be returned to his regular set up assignment rather than remain a starter down in Triple-A Memphis.
A year ago, I backed the idea of the Cardinals making the full commitment to McClellan starting. Assuming the major league pen is strong this spring, I would still be in favor of continuing to let him start. Since the Cardinals believe McClellan has starter’s stuff, then why wouldn’t the best long-term approach for everyone involved be to allow him more than a month of spring training to either prove or disprove it once and for all?
If one of the top five in the Cardinals rotation go down during the first half, an experienced major leaguer could be ready to be promoted and step in. Worst case, even if the experiment is still not working after a dozen or so Triple-A starts, McClellan could always be returned to the major league pen, serving as a nice, low-cost boost for the stretch run.
Yet I don’t think they would consider having him intern as a starter in the minors this year any more than they did last. Even if he is not an immediate success starting, based on past work, McClellan will most likely remain one of the best seven relievers in the eyes of Tony La Russa and Dave Duncan. As such, his spot on the major league roster seems written in ink, even as his 2010 role remains open.
In other words, while McClellan prefers to start, he may only have a month of play to prove he is up to the task.
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If things work out right then Rich Hill will step up and win the 5th starter spot so Garcia can continue to build up arm strength at Memphis.Maybe Mitch Boggs can be used out of the pen since he never seems to get past the 5th inning.
I’ve always been a fan of McClellan. I’d like to see him get a real shot at starting, too.
Not sure I understand. If 30 days is enough for Garcia, Hill, or anyone else to show they are good enough for the rotation why shouldn’t it be enough for McClellen? In fact he should need less time than the other candidates since the major league staff is fully exposed to what he can and can’t do.
CC, sorry if I seemed unclear to you. Fundamentally, I believe a starter is more valuable than a middle reliever. My specific point is that if McClellan does not make the major league rotation out of camp, I would like to see him be given more than 30 days over a few spring outings to prove his mettle as a starter. I am basing this on all the glowing remarks over his repertoire, especially from Dave Duncan. Even so, McClellan hasn’t been a full-time starter since 2004 and has zero career regular season starts above A-ball.
Here is another difference with “Garcia, Hill or anyone else”. If they do not make the rotation, chances are good they will continue to start – just in Triple-A instead of St. Louis. They have a long history in the role, so it is known what they can do. They will theoretically be ready to respond if a starter is needed, but McClellan will be back in short relief by then and out of the starters program. He has been handled differently, more a victim of his success as a major league reliever, IMHO.
I have no way of knowing whether or not McClellan has what it takes to be an MLB starter, but I am pretty sure the ongoing question will not be answered by him spending a third season in a set up role. If the Cards want to declare that he is a reliever, not a starter, then fine, there is nothing to think about. But for the past few years, they seem to keep him somewhere in between. Right now, they imply he is the leading #5 rotation candidate. Though McClellan says everything in a politically-correct manner, in listening to him, it seems clear that he still wants a chance to start.
Bottom line, the calendar says he only gets 30 days to make the major league rotation. If he makes it, great. End of discussion. If not, I believe he should be given a longer audition to return to a starting role, even though it would mean going to Memphis for awhile. I think that would be best for both McClellan and the Cardinals.
He won’t make it. Thinness in the bullpen will again require his assistance in preserving 400,000 thousand dollar starts by Carpenter. The dominant 3 starters with Bradley Penny thrown in are just as much of a challenge as the opposing team. K-Mac has good pitches. His temperment and short coming with stamina, both physical and emotional, are obvious. He makes that wuss Lohse look like Achilles.
There is little available pitching left floating at this point. The press for K-Mac looks good anyway. This is a real weakness for ST Louis. If Smoltz waits long enough, he will find work here, at his price.
I’d like to see Mr. McClellan given an honest shot at starting this spring as well.
Not convinced he is a lights out set up man and if he can build the stamina and pitching needed for 7 inning starts every 5th day, that would be a big improvement over Boggs 5 innings minus starts.
Boggs may be much more suited to a high leverage set up role than as a reliable starter (which he really hasn’t shown yet re: reliable starter)
Yep, I like the way you look at it chief. I didn’t want to complicate matters by bringing up Boggs, but if the Cardinals could look into he and McClellan essentially swapping roles, it could make for a stronger team. What would it cost to experiment? We already know Boggs as a starter and McClellan as a reliever as points of comparison.
Last year McClellen was preparing for the possibility that one of the starters (mostly Carpenter) couldn’t answer the bell – a 6th starter as it were. When all the starters are healthy you take the next guy and put him in the bullpen (logical for someone who already has excelled there.)
This year, he is competing for a truly open spot. Failure to gain the spot this year would be different than last and probably end the talk for the most part.
Putting a guy in Memphis just to be ready as a 6th starter doesn’t make sense to me. If he needs to improve his pitching ok but just as insurance makes no sense. I am not one who believes a guy coming out of the bullpen needs months to get ready to be a starter. Most guys can stretch out while starting — that’s the way most teams do it. With Tony obviously not a afraid to go with 13 pitchers for a while you could definitely do it easily.
So we know that Boggs had a 4.10 ERA as a starter last year in 9 starts despite a .389 BABIP. You really would expect McClellen to be stronger than that? If so, maybe we should look at moving Lohse to the bull pen.
CC, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I am just getting repetitive. I clearly said that I don’t know if McClellan is starter material, but Dave Duncan says he is every winter and spring. There have also been suggestions from the pitching coach that Boggs may be better suited to relief.
With some time to get used to the role, one he hasn’t had in six years at a very different level of competition, McClellan could improve enough to become better than #6. There is more to changing the role effectively than just getting stretched out. Unless he shows it in his brief March audition, we may never know.
Our disagreement is more philosophical about what training it takes to be a starter. I just dont believe that an experienced major league pitcher needs to go to the minors to learn to start. If he’s got the repertoire already going to the minors wont change that.
For some, there may be more to being an effective major league starter than having a varied repertoire, being stretched out and having a solid BABIP. Ask Rick Ankiel.
Here’s hoping McClellan has a solid spring and it becomes a moot point. If not, I wouldn’t be surprised if the McClellan starting movement resurfaces again next winter.
And going back to the minors didn’t help Ankiel
Got me there!
There is a competition among Hill, McClellan, Garcia, and Boggs.
A lot rests on Hill. If he pitches well, he could get the first shot. However, if Hill is lousy during spring training, then he lands at Memphis, and maybe McClellan will instead get the first shot.
If Hill earns the 5th slot in spring training, he will have to audition to keep the job with every start during April/May.
Garcia can pitch at Memphis and be readied to replace Hill or McClellan, if either falters.
That would be cool if McClellan is given an honest shot starting during spring and he turns into a 6,7, 8 inning workhorse.
The braintrust should know by the end of March if he has what it takes to be a good starter. If he can’t do it then that could be the end of the discussion, if he is close maybe a month in Memphis is a good idea or maybe he does enough in March that he is in the rotation when the team heads north.
I don’t remember the history of Welleymyer’s conversion. Was it just an in season thing or did he spend time starting AAA that first year he started?
I think this is the answer.
He had 11 starts with the Cards after being acquired from KC in 2007. One start at Springfield before joining the big boys, but he started quite a bit (99 starts) most of his minor league career.
Looks like my last post hit the Dumpster.
It takes a special mind set to pitch in a rotation. If they were serious about him as a starter, they would have picked up another arm. The downside is, if he fails as at starter (10/1) does the damage he takes make him less effective in an attempt return to the Pen. Kid’s got good stuff. He doesn’t have the intangibles to survive in prolonged battles in my opinion, and I’m afraid oats will be in short s after feeding the war horse already in the stable. Wainwright almost came up lame early last year trying to stay in step with Carp and Lohsie. That type of stress is what caused his finger injury in 08………………………………….. this hasn’t come up yet, but if K-Mac shows well in ST, he becomes trade worthy in an organization the hoards cash like ST Louis. As a perfectly selfish though, a trade would work for me………kid has a glass jaw.
WC, I rescued your last post from the spam filter. If you use slang terms for female anatomy, it will get flagged every time. I made it PG rated for you…
Thanks Brian. I would say that a rose by any other name smells as sweet, but clearly that doesn’t stand the sniff test in this instance.
Brian’s roster matrix has Boggs the 5th starter. Nice try Kyle.
Well, until their roles change, Boggs is a starter and McClellan is a reliever. I will tell you that I did not renew my sponsorship of Boggs’ b-r page. Somebody else sponsors McClellan so that was easy…
Garcia has a Major League page, you know.
Today is the Babe’s birthday. As I do every year, I had 3 beers and ate 3 hot dogs in his honor. Also smoked a cigar, the only one all year anymore. My wife makes me go outside.
Yesterday, as we do every year, we had a BBQ in honor of Henry Aaron’s birthday. Got a few flurries. There have been years one of my sons had to shovel a path out to the BBQ pit. My dad brings over his autographed ball that he got signed in 1957 a few weeks before Aaron won the MVP. We used to get some guys together and put away 44 beers, but the wives put a stop to that awhile back.
How come BB got Hot Dogs through…………….. and a cigar (Bill Clinton changed that).
Wish I would have been there BB. Tofu kabobs………yum.
I wish the braintrust showed a higher level of confidence in Garcia.
So are Walters and Hawksworth totally out of the picture?
To me a more interesting angle is who is our #5 starter at the end of the season rather than the beginning. Does Garcia go to Memphis and then move in to the role? Does no one step up and we have to make a trade? I’m out on a limb saying it will be Ottavino (not expecting a lot of people to join me on the bandwagon).
Fear……………. if he is a failure or in shown prematurely, it further degrades the feeder system concept. The have held a number of guys back. When Tony is gone, they will fear less probably.
If you think about it……..dumping the eggs last year was a gesture born of more than just a desire to make the playoffs.
It will come down to Garcia and Hill, because they are lefties. If they both fail, or somebody goes down, McClellen gets his shot.
At the WWU Mo did say something about looking to the AA roster. Maybe we are not looking in the right place for who will be the 5th by the end of the year. I’d have to agree they don’t seem exactly giddy about Garcia. PJ is seen as a fizzle.
Mac and Boggs both are timid about coming inside so they end up getting too much of the plate. So they end up just working the outside corner. MLB hitters smell that fear and step into it without fear of taking one in the ear hole. Haven’t seen Garcia yet, but I’m guessing he’s the same. Howk was the only one they weren’t stepping into, which is probably why he will be needed as the go to righty in the pen.
my guess: the 7 SP’s stretched out in ST will be the big 4, hill, k-mac and jukich who imo, is auditioning for the thompson swingman role. garcia will get the conservative approach with his IP and be reassigned to minors camp early as a SP. no reason to flirt with another lost service year without a dozen starts at aaa first.
the two new lhp’s hill and jukich will be given a real strong chance to make the 25man.
if both succeed, k-mac back to the setup role; franklin, k-mac, hawks, motte, miller, reyes and jukich. pushing boggs back to closer at aaa, learning how to get lhb’s out.
if hill doesn’t make the 25man, k-mac as the 5th SP role and boggs makes the pen as a roogy with hawks taking k-mac’s setup role, with hawks ability to get both lh and rhb’s out.
TLR/DD do not talk up the chances of ANY rookie pitcher. Naturally they will not talk up Garcia or Walters. Its a bootcamp attitude. Rooks need to earn their way onto a ML roster. We are not going to entrust a precious ML starting role to a rookie. This is a reasonable way to think, I believe. A rookie has to be so good and self-assured he cannot be overlooked.
A guy like Hill has already been run through the wringer, chewed out by Sweet Lou for not throwing strikes. He’s an older guy who can be thrown into the battle. If Hill can’t find the strike zone asap, he will be demoted or released.
The Cards have enough depth (Hill, Garcia, Boggs, Walters, McClellan, Hawksworth, Ottavino, Lynn) that someone should step up and be effective, either at the onset of the season or later.
I had forgotten all about Jukich. The Cards will try hard to get a starter out of one of the lefties. It is also possible that replacing Reyes and his $2M salary is a possibility. If he looks good early on a taker shouldn’t be hard to find.
I must admit that the thinking here is impressive. BIP, you may have this figured, but I would caution with the old adage, ” no matter how you order the cupcakes, whether by flavor or decoration, you’re still serving cupcakes”.
Too many redheads here for me. We still need a manly man, with a big hammer to lead that rabble.
If they start squatting in April, and Tony tries to win by whipping his starters, this isn’t going to end well. I see us in 3rd at the end of April at this point.
You may be right Westy. DD obviously doesn’t like something about the arms coming up. He’s not drooling over Garcia for a reason, however bad he needs a lefty. Lot of starters have come up that just aren’t starters. Walters, McClellan, Boggs, Hawk. Having to buy a #4 for $7.5M, DD probably didn’t have to put Mo up to bringing in some arms from outside the organisation.
BB, it is premature to assume DD dislikes “the arms coming up.” He is not drooling over Garcia for the same reason he does not drool over any young pitcher.
McClellan jumped to the majors from AA relief. He has not started since the Midwest League. It would not have made sense to throw him into a starting role in 2008-9. Its still questionable, but if he is the most ready, he may get the job.
Walters has swing and miss pitches. The Cards may let him train some more at Memphis. Boggs has arm strength and might be able to grow into a ML starter. Same with Ottavino. They are not ready yet. Hawksworth is well served to spend more time in the bullpen and consolidating what he did last summer. Garcia is a nice prospect, but the Cards are not going to talk him up and put pressure on him. He will probably begin the season at Memphis and earn a promotion if he excels.
Just read a most interesting tidbit, possibly a signal of the future of pitching contracts:
The Red Sox have a club only option that Lackey will pitch for a ML minimum salary during the 2015 season, if he needs TJ surgery between 2010-14. Since TJ surgery requires a year of recovery, Lackey must in essence be promising to pay back the Sox for a year lost between 2010-14, if his ligaments go.
It seems like moving toward non-guaranteed contract. Like saying the player gets ML min if he goes on the DL. Except in a way that the MLBPA will go along with.
Basebal notes in the Boston Globe is a great column. The best around.
Found the tidbit that the Twins would have a higher payroll than the Dodgers this year quite interesting.
And just when was the last time DDuncan drooled over a rookie befoer the start of the season?
Agree on all counts. I always like Nick Cafardo’s columns. The Dodgertown divorce is painful for everyone. I don’t think Duncan drools, period.
I missed this topic, but I don’t really expect McClellan to be 5th starter…but it has nothing to do with fear or anything silly like that.
I think we simply have better options for the rotation and McClellan has experience in high-leverage roles in the pen. Seems simple to me.
Hill gets the 5th spot if he earns it. After him, I think Boggs and Garcia have the upper hand, but Hawk, Walters, McClellan, and I guess Jukich have a shot.
Garcia dominated when he came back last season and has had months to get even better (in terms of shape). I don’t agree at all with the belief that he needs to be in AAA to build up “arm strength”. If he DOES, we have more serious problems with him.
I see no reason for Boggs to truck it back to Memphis, but I am intrigued by his upside as a late inning reliever (which I think is higher than Motte’s).
I expect big things from Ottavino this season….but for different reasons than CC. I think he becomes a reliever and blows people away (a la Venezuela in the WBC).
I wish we had another experienced late inning guy, but I am not overly worried about it. We have a TON of pitching options this year. So many, in fact, that we may see quite the revolving door between STL and Memphis this year.
I already listed the seemingly dozen 5th starter options (none of which are really a stretch at all). If the pen falters, in addition to some of those 5th starter candidates, we also have people like Sanchez and Parise (and, Ottavino, Salas, Samuel, etc.) that are legitimate options.
I agree with most all your points, easton. I hope Garcia doesn’t become the new Anthony Reyes. As you note, there are a lot of good relief options. I hope Ottavino doesn’t have to join them. With him being a former first-rounder, my expectations remain higher. On the other hand, the clock is ticking…
Thanks, Brian. The clock is my concern with Ottavino. I wouldn’t be too worried about losing value by converting him to a starter. We have spent supplemental picks on relievers before (albeit with a MUCH quicker path to the bigs).
Regardless, I still have his WBC performance on DVR and he looked awesome. If we think he can do that for 6+ innings, go for it. If we think he could do that, consistently, for 2 innings I say fast-track him to the bigs.
It is a bit funny to consider given how our pen has looked in the past, but we could have a pen filled with guys who throw absolute smoke in the next year or two.
Boggs
Motte (although I have fallen off him a ton)
Sanchez
Ottavino
Samuel
Reifer
etc.
Heck, maybe Kelly could join that list with a big year this year.
The exciting thing about that list, however, is that, with the exception of Motte, all of them have legitimate if not plus secondary pitches.
Someone will seize the set-up role this year and become our next ‘closer of the future’. That is a nice chunk of bullpen talent.
Of course, toss in qualified non-gassers such as Walters and Hawk and McClellan and Salas and Parise, etc., and we have plenty of real, honest options.