It was a garden-variety transaction, easily lost among the many housekeeping kinds of moves teams make this time of year as they prepare for the free agent and Rule 5 seasons.
“The Toronto Blue Jays claimed minor league infielder Mike McCoy off waivers from the Colorado Rockies.”
St. Louis Cardinals fans probably remember McCoy, 28. During spring training 2008, he was traded by the Cardinals to the Baltimore Orioles’ Triple-A affiliate in return for future considerations.
McCoy was originally taken by the Cardinals in the 34th round of the 2002 draft. Primarily a second baseman and shortstop, the versatile right-hander is the consummate utilityman, having also played at third base as well as in the outfield and even pitched in a pinch.
In his sixth season in the Cardinals system, 2007, McCoy reached Triple-A Memphis for the first time, where he batted .247 in 239 at-bats. Overall in his Cardinals career, McCoy posted a .256/.360/.339 line in 2070 minor league ABs.
McCoy moved to Colorado in a trade in June, 2008 and re-signed with the Rockies organization this January. He hit .307 with two home runs, 52 RBIs, 102 runs and 40 steals at Triple-A Colorado Springs in 2009 and was rewarded with his first-ever promotion to the Majors on September 8.
He played winter ball in Mexico each of the last two winters, including this one. We are tracking McCoy’s results in the subscriber-only Winter Leagues Notebook on the main TheCardinalNation.com site.
But this post isn’t about McCoy as much as what he represents – another example of the high value the Toronto Blue Jays seem to place on Cardinals farmhands.
The actions began under former Toronto Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi, and are continuing under his home-grown successor, Alex Antopoulos. The new GM was quoted in Canada’s National Post as saying his team needs to rebuild again, saying they “have to be open-minded to anything.”
Apparently, that includes stocking up on former Cardinals infielders, as they grabbed second baseman Jarrett Hoffpauir off the waiver wire just last week.
Going back further, former Cardinals prospect Cody Haerther was claimed by Toronto from St. Louis two different times. The first was off waivers two years ago, only to have the Cardinals take him back when Toronto tried to clear him the next week.
Last winter, Haerther was left exposed to the Rule 5 draft on the Springfield roster, where he was again claimed by the Jays. At that point, he was not required to be placed onto the 40-man roster and remained in Toronto’s system.
It happened again one year ago when the Cardinals lost reliever Kelvin Jimenez to Toronto on another waiver claim. That time, the Jays waited two weeks to try to slip Jimenez through waivers, but the Chicago White Sox nabbed him.
The focus of the National Post article from where I extracted the Antopoulos quote above was not waiver claims, but instead the future of Jays’ ace Roy Halladay. Perhaps Ricciardi’s final failure was to dangle his 2003 Cy Young Award-winning pitcher in the trade market this summer only to pull him back.
The Canadian paper thinks Toronto is still trying to deal Halladay, who is under contract through the 2010 season at $15.75 million. Four clubs are identified as being the favorites, the Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers and Angels. St. Louis appears as the first name in the second tier, called “Possibilities”.
The writer notes the Cardinals have the financial resources to assume Halladay’s contract and he is a former teammate of Chris Carpenter. He does not mention the money tied up in the Cardinals’ top three starters, their dwindling stash of minor league trade chips nor the fact that most of the excess payroll will probably be applied to the offense, however.
While anything is possible, the idea of the Cardinals taking on Halladay seem far-fetched to me – unless the Jays would like to assume the final three years of Kyle Lohse’s contract, that is.
There is a slight precedence. The Cards saved a year in the Scott Rolen-Troy Glaus trade between the two clubs during the 2007-2008 off-season. Rolen had three years remaining at the time while Glaus had just two in his then-current deal.
The clubs are not common trade partners though. Their last deal prior to the third baseman swap was the Pat Hentgen trade in late 1999. Hentgen, like Halladay a former American League Cy Young Award winner (1996), became a Tony La Russa favorite despite playing in St. Louis just one season, 2000.
Could Halladay be next?
There is absolutely no way the Cards could get Halladay. It would cost them Waino + Colby to get Halladay IMO. Maybe if you threw a boat load of players at them like Motte, Colby, Otto, or McClellen you could get him without Waino, or those plus Kozma since they supposedly liked him. But It seems a reach for me. I would think the Jays would like good young pitching in any trade for Roy and I’m just not sure the cards have it to give. Maybe Garcia, Colby, Kozma, and McClellen may could swing it.
I was outspoken about losing McCoy. I think he still will be a solid major leaguer. I would put him up against Skip for a full season of regular play at 2b (offense and defense). (and he is having a fantastic winter ball season for what that is worth.) I´d probably tke McCoy over Hoff due to versitility and speed.
Not a way in hell……………….. Cards don’t need pitching, they need runs. They need a closer. They need a big stick. Phillies are over burdened with lefties at this point. They can’t be happy with Hammels. Halladay would fit in real nice there. All teams are clearing salary while looking to resign players they have released. A good old Cardinal trick. There are many opportunities. Pinero could be had with a modest offer at this point. He has to be concerned about getting closed out and ending up in the dead pool. The relationship between Albert and management isn’t really clear at this point. It will be revealed soon enough. Everyone seems to thing he is all tucked away. Not even close.
Colby isn’t going any where for a few years anyway RC.
I see the owners really attacking the market this year. They’re defense for last years collusion will be the economy. This year, more so probably. If you know you’re going all in with that position anyway, may as well play it hard now
.
AAAA has McCoys and Hoffpauirs. Decent players who will still have a hard time getting a chance in the majors. This may not be fair, just life.
Extending Pujols is the top priority.
Resigning Holliday would be the second. If Holliday leaves, then the gameplan to replace his offense becomes the second priority.
Carpenter, Wainwright and Halliday in the same rotation. That’s a wet dream right there for any Cardinal fan. Not only is Halliday one of the best in the game, he’s a horse and he finishes what he starts. Any manager going to the mound to remove this ultra competitor is doing so at the risk of his own health. I would sssoooooo love to see him in a different shade of bird uniform.
However, it’s not going to happen. We just don’t have what the Jays need to get him. Boston offered Buchholz, Masterson and 2 other top prospects and were turned down by Riccardi (which is probably why he was fired). Wallace could have been a centre piece of that trade, since the Jays need both a 1b and 3b replacement, but that ship has sailed. Garcia would most assuridly have to be included, along with Shelby Miller, Daryl Jones, Tyler Greene or Pete Kozma and David Freese/Allen Craig. That might possibly get it done, but I doubt it. We just don’t have the high end prospects to get this done.
What a shame too since Doc and Carp are good friends and would love to play together. This guy has Albert’s work ethic and competitiveness too. Maybe we could sign him as a free agent for 2011???
The Jays organization promised Halliday that if they weren’t going to be a serious contender they would trade him to a team who had a chance to go to the post season. Anthopolous is a man of integrity by all reports, so I’m guaranteeing Halliday’s trade this winter. You read it here first folks. The GM’s are getting together shortly and you can be sure the bidding will start there. Mo could start by offering our 2009 draft signings, only because I think he would.
Doc, Carp and Waino in the same rotation. Could it be more than just a dream?
Oh geez, my apologizes to the baseball gods for spelling both Halladay and Anthopoulos wrong.
Jumbo Shrimp – “Extending Pujols is the top priority.
Resigning Holliday would be the second. If Holliday leaves, then the gameplan to replace his offense becomes the second priority.”
As bad as it seems IMO Pujols should be traded this year to some team willing to give up a kings ransom for him, and there would be someone out there who would give up two arms and one leg. He is the best player in the game but if the team is not going to be willing to sign another big hitter it is better trading him and getting a 5 or 6 player bounty because Albert may bolt and leave you with two picks…………….which would really hurt.
So what you are saying is that unless the Cards know they can have both Pujols and Holliday, they should have neither? Instead, I believe there is a workable alternative somewhere in between the two extremes. I just don’t see Holliday as the only player in MLB capable of complimenting Albert in the lineup.
It seems RC has joined our friend hiding in the brush as the carnivoires strut and snort.
I’m with RC on this one. And the timing is critical. Albert will never have more value than this off season.
Brian, during your talk with Jeff Luhnow, did Brent Throm or Joe Williams come up?
All I can wonder is if you guys are descendants of Frank “Trader” Lane. He would have sent Musial to the Pirates in 1956. Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but I wouldn’t have cared who the Cards would have received in return. Now I do understand free agency makes this a different world.
bb, I wish you had offered up your questions in advance. I didn’t think to ask about Mike Marshall. Brent Strom is still in favor. In fact, he was among the Cardinals contingent in AZ with Jeff. I chatted with him briefly, but it was mostly small talk.
I took this photo last week. Strom is on the right in the cap. The smiling chap on the left is assistant GM John Abbamondi.
CC, if by value you mean the number of dollars a buyer will pay, I strongly disagree. I think Albert knows this is not the time to talk about a big money long term contract. BDW and Mo would like to lock him up in the midst of a soft market, but Albert has two years and will likely wait for better times.
Thanks Brian, I had wondered if Strom was tied to the Williams-mechanics-balance point-Otavino thing, which I assumed had to do with DD’s beef. P.S. I’m lobbying for a Scout membership for christmas, as compensation for my 2010 season ticket 1/2 share getting wacked by economic factors (woe doesn’t begin to describe it).
Lets give some credit to the agents guys. When Mo calls for a face to face meeting with Holiday, considering what Holiday pays Boras, thats about as vulgar as name calling and negative insinuation gets. There is nothing to say. Get a formal offer on paper and Boras has to notify him of it. That is the strongest posture Mo has, and it is the most vulnerable moment Boras has to deal with. Its right then that Matt can say,” I want to except that offer”, end of story.
My greatest fear…………..Albert excepts a large long term deal without enough safeguards, and becomes a Cardinal Poster boy on losing teams forever……..(unlikely)
I believe Albert signs here with a great big deal with lots of differed payouts.(part owner). It is likely that his Agent gets him is 2 and 4yr opt out clauses. (likely)
Clearly everyone must see that Tony/Dave/Albert have been acting in concert concerning their shared aspirations. BD/Mo’s resignation to the Tony/Dave hirings and accommodation along with the MM issues strongly suggest a highly leveraged position. The ball is in BD’s court right now. He is the “decider”. As much as I like the thought of Yukleis at third base and a left handed pitcher RC. It ain’t gonna happen. Do I think the BD believes that as long has he has Pujols, he can sell tickets…………Yes……….. Do I think Albert’s Agents have they’re own opinions…..not necessarily held by Albert…….no question there. The trip to Birmingham and Albert’s current posturing clearly are sending the message, ” show me Billiam who you are, and what type of game you intend play”.
I see an African American and a Dominican brother on the horizon.
Brian, referring to Albert’s value was in reference to his trade value.
Wasn’t the proposed trade of Musial to Philly?
Musial was the highest paid player in the game for at least some of those years after 1956 and his performance for the most part was mediocre. (only one season with 20+ HR’s and only 3 of 7 with a .300+ BA). If we pay Albert has the highest paid player in the game and get that level of performance the team will most likely tank.
More importantly, how many pennants did the Cards win after 1956?
i prefer to use the Herschal Walker trade as the example. Trading Walker at the peak of his career made the Cowboys the team of the 90′s.
The trade that may have received the most press was 1-1, Robin Roberts to Philly, but Mike Eisenbath’s Cardinals Encyclopedia also notes Lane discussed a package of prospects with the Pirates.
Perhaps it is romantic to want iconic players to remain with one franchise their entire career, but that is how I feel. For every successful Walker trade, I can probably come up with one that failed.
I’d prefer that Albert be a Cardinal for life as well. But my guess is he could make that happen at a fair price tomorrow if he wanted to. Since he hasn’t seemed inclined to do that I can only assume he is not as sentimental as you or I. Given the risk of him not signing, I’d explore the trade options. After next year he is a 5 and 10 guy so it becomes harder.
I’d be interested in Westie’s psycho babble about how he thinks Albert might respond to trade rumors. Cave quickly and sign? Become more hard line? Play great to show the Cards they are wrong? Wilt under the pressure? There is probably a take about how TLR would respond but I could care less about his reaction. In my mind he is easily replaceable.
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/round-two/round-two/2009/11/was-boras-correct-implying-cards-not-mid-market/
This is an interesting read.
Albert has complete control over this process. No team would even bother trading for him without the agreed extension in place. The question is moot.
WC, so you mean a well-run team would trade three top prospects for two MONTHS of Matt Holliday, but not a single one of 29 other teams would want two guaranteed YEARS of Pujols? You probably didn’t know that he could be traded without his approval. C’mon, now…
but they would for Hallady? Get real. The Cards aren’t the only egoistical team that thinks they can convince a player to sign.
You must be kidding……………..right………………….. the Cardinals cashed in three prospects (liquidation) and paid 2 million dollars for one of the most reviled players in Boston history…………………… because they need middle infield help? As I’ve said. They made a fortune, achieved a type of camouflage that you can’t buy anywhere, almost verging on credibility, and you use them as an example of other teams?
This is all relative. BD would then be reviled if he didn’t get value. Who would give the adequate compensation, and then end up in the same spot as the Cardinals anyway. You guys are delirious.
No evidence of the $2 million to Boston but even if true was well worth it to get rid of the Duncan distraction. They only made money on the deal if they find someone to take Lugo’s salary for 2010 — not happening!
Cash or player to be named…………………..its coming. Duncan was a shared courtesy. He was demoted so he wouldn’t even need to be put on their 40 man. Gave them some cover. They made thirty million after everyone was paid. Lugo is morphing into the right handed part of 2nd base monster. Don’t forget, they threw away 4 mill on Kennedy just to get Rasmus in center.
Carioca, fyi, the CNB-RS was bug-eye riveted to his TV set while Balloon Boy was supposed to be aloft and in peril. When the balloon came down to earth, it was all found out to be nonsense and a hoax. Theories regarding Lugo remind me. A shaman does not have to make sense. (Praise the Jack Lord.)
$30 million! ???? kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk I want whatever he’s having!!!!!
The Cleveland Indians are interesting. They have traded Manny Ramirez and CC Sabathia and Lee. Two superstars and one star. Before the Cards hired Mo as GM, they looked hard at the #2 guy with the Indians. It cannot be fun to give up such great talents. However, it is clear minded and realistic, given their financial situation, which is weaker than the Cards.
We will see what happens with Matt Holliday. We gave up 3 prospects and if he walks, we can add two via picks.
We had to deal with the Indians when we had bad leverage, so had to give up two good prospects for DeRosa. This might have worked out, except he immediately got hurt and his hitting declined, so he ended up a Type B free agent, when DeRosa might have earned Type A value had he stayed healthy. So we may have had some bad luck there.
The Logo salary money for 2010 is what paid Holiday’s salary for 2009. I put the attendance bump at 300,000 plus playoff revenue after the addition of Holiday. 30 mill easy. Thats why I’m calling BD brilliant. That was right out of the Wall Street manual. The 9 million owed will come out of this years surplus. Count on it. What you don’t know is that BD has made quite an issue about cash flow issues for his cronies in the membership group. He did all this without altering his cash flow plans…………He is a character.
Re the trading Pujols theory……it would be a tough thing for DeWitt and Mo to do, because the Reserve Clause kept Musial, Gibson, and Brock around. The Cards have seldom had to trade one of their best and the fans are not used to the concept. It would be very tough minded to trade Pujols, like the Indians traded Manny and CC. I doubt the team will do it.
It might be better to just let Albert leave after 2011, if he wants to do so, and collect the two draft picks, than to send him elsewhere, by the team’s choice. I would put the responsibility on Albert to decide his future beyond 2011. If he leaves, then he becomes the greedy bad guy. If he stays, everyone is happy.
Pujols calibre players do not show up very often. You keep a guy like that for as long as you can. If he later decides to leave, it should be his choice and fault. .
Jumbo, you’ve mentioned it twice now. Please enlighten me on the Manny trade by the Indians.
Stick to pop psychology Westie — economics is obviously not your strong suit.
What the Cards made on extra ticket sales and playoff revenue probably didn’t even cover much more than Holliday’s salary that the Card’s picked up. Add in Lugo’s $4 million this year, Derosa’s $2 million, the $2 million going to Boston (kkkkkk), the $3 million in bonuses for the draft picks we have to sign with the compensation picks, and the $9 million from Lugo’s salary next year and BDW is going way negative on this one even with the $13 million for Lugo’s salary. He might have gained some cash flow this year (but I doubt it as the Lugo money was most likely not all paid up front) but he’ll eat even more next year.
I doubt the Cards sold more than 150K extra seats and the ones they sold were lower priced than average. Unlikely they made more than $1 million off the playoffs that they had a 50% chance of making anyway.
I mixed up Manny with Bartolo Colon. Colon was a stud in his time yet the Indians made a great trade by getting Cliff Lee, Brady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips from Omar when he was running the Expos.
Manny, I am newly reminded, signed an 8 yr/160, as a free agent departure.
I would be inclined to let Pujols choose to stay or leave; either way he will get big dollars, and after that its up to him.
It is always paid up front. Your ticket estimations with concession are soft. It doesn’t mater. The real question should be why is BD so cash flow conscious? You’ll have to work that out for yourself.
It would be a ballsy move by Mo to trade Albert and IMO, if the cards know they aren’t gonna be able to sign Albert, it is a must do to trade him for max value. Two draft picks, most likely late picks for Albert would be crippling in my opinion. But as good as Albert is, he alone is not enough to keep this team winning. Carp’s candle is about to burn out in St. Louis and what will the cards do when that happens. Trading Albert would get you 4 or 5 top young players, and these guys are most likely not coming from the sandwich round or later, they are going to be high picks for the most part.
But WC is probably right, the cards can keep the seats filled up with Albert in the lineup, and stay competitive, although probably not capable of winning many pennants with Albert as the lone Horse. But if money is the goal(and it could very well be), it is probably the safest of bets to keep him at whatever cost.
Furthermore, it is my contention that without TLR as the manager-in-chief of the Cardinals, Albert will be looking to move on. I believe Albert to have more power as to what takes place on the cardinals than any player on any other team and when TLR leaves this will undoubtedly change. So Albert is riding out his stay with the cardinals/TLR and it is my belief that Albert will say the things like he wants to be here for life, blah blah blah. That he doesn’t care about the money, blah, blah, blah. And my thinking is he has done this to keep TLR around and in favor for as long as he has.
When TLR finally leaves, here comes a different Albert. One that will not say out loud now, that he wants to be paid like one of the greatest to ever play the game, but whose ego REALLY wants to be fed(all great players have that in common) with a huge, record breaking contract. This does not make Albert a bad person, this ego is what makes him the best in the business.
Rather than ego, it could be said that its his strength of character and healthy self respect/self esteem that makes him the best. Greatness is a heavy burdon which many sports figures do not carry very well, and then there are the Abdul-Jabbars and Joe Fraziers. IMO Albert is what he appears to be, no Jeckyl and Hyde, a very fine gentleman and superb professional athlete.
RC, is it fair to summarize your storyline in this way?
1) Holliday signs elsewhere.
2) Pujols does not agree to an extension.
3) TLR retires.
4) Pujols declares free agency and leaves to the highest bidder unless he is traded first.
That is certainly one possibility, though I have no way of assessing its likelihood against other scenarios.
Brian, That would be an accurate assessment of what I think could take place. Its just a guess. It is fun trying to read people and take stabs at what you think they may do in the future.
Agree, RC. You support your view with logic and stand behind it. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I will give you this Bling and you can take it for what its worth, Barry Bonds and Albert Pujols are identical players in the clubhouse and on the field IMO. I’ve never been in the clubhouse with either but this is just my take. They are focused on doing their jobs to the nth degree, there is nothing but a desire to be the best in their eyes at all times while in uniform. The rules are different for them when the uniform is on verses the other players. They operate on a different wavelength than every other player, I’d bet those two have many times not ridden the bus on away trips in spring training games, while every other player did. I would consider both Barry and Albert to be egocentric. It is what makes them be the players that they are IMO. This is not a knock. Both Albert and Barry put their play above anything that goes on on the field. If you think Albert would sacrifice his numbers for World Series championships you would be sadly mistaken. He wants both I’m sure but if he had to give up one for the other he would take his numbers and you could have the other.
Furthermore I’ll bet Barry Bonds has given as much money to charities in the San Fran area as Albert has in the St. Louis area so both guys are giving individuals.
The difference, Barry is that same player off the field as he is on the field.
Albert is not. Albert is an outspoken Christian man with a special needs child. He’s a good guy(christian), who people have a lot of sympathy for because of his childs condition and the way he has handled it. The large majority of people would have a hard time not liking Albert Pujols. Its easy to hate Barry.
I wrote all that to write this………….In the uniform these two hall of fame players are identical and their ego’s control their every thought while on the baseball field. One is hated and the other is loved. And Barry was hated before the steriod issues came to light.
Don’t think for one minute that strength of character is what drives Albert to be the stud he is.
Nice discussion of the point RC. Can we agree that ‘ego’ generally is used to mean one of two things:
1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit, or
2. Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.
If so, then your position and use of the term ‘egocentric’ convinces me that you attribute #1 to Albert as well as Bonds. If we can also agree on that, then, since “it is what makes them the players they are”, you imply that without an exaggerated sence of self importance, niether would have achieved their level of greatness.
If you believe that an exaggerated sence of self importance is a necessary ingredient and therefore common to all athletes who rise to the top, then Albert is undoubtedly as you say. I do not believe that to be the case. If it is not a prerequisite, then you should have more evidence of Albert’s exagerated sense than missing a few bus rides (which any sensible person would do if given the chance). I believe that an appropiate pride in oneself, self esteem, is an equal possibility and I lean in that direction as to Albert. Don’t know about Barry.
Your tuned in RC……………………………………… One way or another, we all await the return volley. Common BD, rip it.
Brian, isn’t P. Polanco a close friend of Albert’s. I’m watching that with interest. Don’t really know much about him.
Nice discussion of the point RC. Can we agree that ‘ego’ generally is used to mean one of two things:
1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit, or
2. Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.
YES
If so, then your position and use of the term ‘egocentric’ convinces me that you attribute #1 to Albert as well as Bonds.
YES
If we can also agree on that, then, since “it is what makes them the players they are”, you imply that without an exaggerated sence of self importance, niether would have achieved their level of greatness.
I’M STILL WITH YOU. YES AGAIN.
If you believe that an exaggerated sence of self importance is a necessary ingredient and therefore common to all athletes who rise to the top, then Albert is undoubtedly as you say. I do not believe that to be the case.
THIS IS UNDERSTANDABLE BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ALBERT FAN, AND SO YOU MAY NOT SEE HIM AS CLEARLY AS OTHERS. I HAVE CERTAIN THINGS I BELIEVE AND THESE THINGS ARE BASED ON WHAT FORMER TEAMMATES HAVE SAID.
If it is not a prerequisite, then you should have more evidence of Albert’s exagerated sense than missing a few bus rides (which any sensible person would do if given the chance).
A PERSON’S PERCEIVED STATUS DICTATES HOW THAT PERSON ACTS WHEN NOT IN THE PUBLIC EYE. I READ A PIECE ON DEREK JETER JUST THE OTHER DAY SPEAKING TO THE BUS RIDE WHICH IS WHY I BROUGHT IT UP. HE STATED THAT HE WOULD NEVER NOT RIDE THE BUS WITH HIS TEAMMATES BECAUSE HE WOULD NEVER WANT THEM TO THINK HE THOUGHT HE WAS SUPERIOR TO THEM IN ANY WAY. HE STATED THAT THE HE WAS A PART OF THE TEAM AND THAT NOT DOING WHAT THE TEAM DID WOULD CAUSE ILL FEELINGS. ITS EASY TO DO WHATS RIGHT WHEN THE CAMERSA’S ARE ROLLING, MUCH HARDER WHEN THEY ARE NOT. ONE’S SELF PERCEIVED STATUS ALLOWS EACH OF US TO TAKE CERTAIN LIBERTIES BASED ON WHAT WE THINK OF OURSELVES. PRIDE ALONE WOULDN’T CAUSE A PERSON TO FEEL THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WHILE THE REST OF THE GROUP ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THE SAME. EXAGGERATED SENSE OF SELF IMPORTANCE…………WELL YES. WHO DO YOU THINK WOULD BE THE MORE RESPECTED TEAMMATE? WHICH PLAYER WOULD HAVE AN EGO ISSUE? UNDERSTAND I’M NOT TRYING TO VILLIFY ANYONE, JUST MAKING A POINT ABOUT WHAT MAKES A PERSON WHO THEY ARE.
I believe that an appropiate pride in oneself, self esteem, is an equal possibility and I lean in that direction as to Albert. Don’t know about Barry.
UNFORTUNATELY OR FORTUNATELY YOU ARE GOING TO SEE WHAT YOU ARE WANTED TO SEE, WHEN IT INVOLVES LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY, THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME. IF WE ALL KNEW THE FAULTS OF OUR HERE’S THEY WOULDN’T BE OUR HERO’S ANYMORE. ITS PROBABLY BEST TO VIEW THEM IN THE LIGHT THAT MAKES US FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEM AND THEREFORE WE FEEL THERE IS MUCH MORE GOOD IN THE WORLD THAN BAD. THIS BRINGS TO MIND THE MOVIE TOMBSTONE, WHERE THE GUYS ASKED AFTER A GUN BATTLE, “WHERE IS WYATT?” DOC REPLIED, “HE’S DOWN BY THE RIVER WALKING ON WATER.”
I will continue Bling by saying this…………I wish Colby was just like Albert in every way while in the uniform because I believe you have to be concerned with your success above everything else to be one of the best, with few exceptions. Sadly he is not.
In the case of enequivocal greatness, self deprecation would be taken as insincere. I would take it as cheap pandering. You have produced little or no evidence supporting #1 rather than #2. A proposition is not supporting by restating it with added enthusiam, although I admit it works for Boras. I’m leaving for work now but don’t deny you a rebuttal or last word or whatever, but will have to check tonight. Again, nice discussion.
I have enjoyed the discussion as well Bling. As for my not producing any evidence supporting #1, I’m not really trying to turn you to the dark side and will leave the discussion where it is. I could list you numerous things for which you ask but could quite possibly bury people close to me because unlike you I do know the power Albert holds within the organization. Phenomenal cosmic power, trust me on that. If he’s for you one can be on top of the world, but if he is against you you can find yourself traded or on a desert island where noone will talk to you………………yikes. So we’ll just leave everything as hypothetical what ifs and go on our way. enjoyed it.
So maybe the discussion should turn to who empowers Albert. Tony? mo? Bill? Whoever it is should be ashamed of themselves. Assuming RC is right, I feel even stronger Albert should be traded. Maybe now we know why Holliday isn’t clamoring to come back.
Very civilized discourse gentlemen. Let me offer a slightly different playing field for your jousting.
Their are many fields of influence with their dynamic forces that effect each of your definitions of, or representation of “EGO” or its portrayal. On the playing field, combat can easily distort a persons self esteem if that self esteem is in any way based on the results of said contest. I bring this up because the most evident sign of confusion in Albert’s on field behavior, bat flipping, posturing, chastising fellow players, exaggeration in the interpretation of opportunity gained in a given play,(stretching a single into a double and being out by 5 strides, etc,).
Albert’s troubles this year were caused by conflicts in the representation of both of your analogies, and subsequent definitions of ego. Its seems there was a degradation in quality of both of these aspects in his ego displays, as both created turbulence his personal deportment. This field of conflict is what I have described as a “spiritual conflict” in prior offerings. In truth there is but a single ego. Its is the nature of its function that reveals the two aspects or surfaces in its nature. ( See WCBW’s ” Guide to understanding the principles of qualitative directionality in your Universe)
CC Don’t misunderstand, this entire discussion was not an attempt to bad mouth Albert. I was making a point of why I thought should be traded. Albert is a mighty fine person in all aspects of his life I’m sure. This started out as a discussion about why I thought Albert should be dealt for prospects and we got sidetracked a little. Having a big EGO to me is not a bad thing and like I stated, I wish Colby acted like an Albert Pujols clone because that would make him a successful baseball player, which is the goal of all MLB players.
RC, don’t forget that Albert travels allot with family which requires different travel protocols.
CC, RC’s Albert personality type doesn’t require an enabler to empower him. It’s self generated. Like gravity.
If Albert’s ego clashed with Matt’s, its hard to imagine him getting along with MM or any of the big name stars populating teams that can afford him, since, being big stars, they would all have the same ego type as Albert and Barry and Matt.
It has occurred to me that siging Matt would be an excellent way to soften the blow should Albert go away at some point. This has probably occurred to BDW and MO.
Disgruntled former mates, perhaps bitter, perhaps envious or jealous, perhaps displaced or supplanted, perhaps simply insecure, might have an agenda other than objectivity.
Westy, that qualitative directionality thing, thats part of hollow earth theory is it not.
There is nothing wrong with Colby that a good caning won’t cure. MM will see to that.
I disagree that power doesn’t need an enabler. If Albert doesn’t ride the bus with everyone else, someone allows that. If Albert can get a guy benched, somone allows that. There is always an enabler be it a person, money, or something else.
cane/ing maybe? Same as a whipping?
Unfortunately BB, Q/D is the future. It represents the synthesis of Science and Religion. It is the harmonization in Philosophy of the Physical Universe with the Conscious Creator/ion. You will know when to ask abut it.
I really don’t know if their egos actually clashed BB. Holiday showed up and said “lets get it on mate”. I believe he just caught Albert at a bad time, right after that All Star game fiasco. That coupled with the tactic in which teams actually attacked him (on the hands) was just beyond his ability to adjust. The only ones who really did were Ankiel and Lugo. I know the whole ” not running out grounders and such” did not sit well with Matt. Like it or not Albert is hunkered down right where he wants to be, Agents in agreement. His leaving or staying has to be done with all the drama that the Hollywood boys can muster. It is the foundation of his value on the field and at the ticket gate. His poor play and injured status reduced his value in all negotiations and or rejections/trades.
I sign Holiday and trade Albert to NY for Teshara and 80million dollars. That wins me the national league five years running……………..only to be beat in the world series 5 yrs running by the Yankees. The games would be interesting though.
Albert really wanted to play with the Dominicans………….for a reason. If they want to keep him here and happy……..better bring some of the “blood” to ST Louis.
Not really CC. Confrontation with the personality is too risky, too much downside potential, so it is not an option. In the hypo with Albert being the personality, if he doesn’t want to ride the bus what is Tony or Mo or BDW supposed to do about it really? Risk confrontation with Albert over it? Power means not having to ask because there can be only one answer.
BB, i have been in charge of high ego’d spoiled employees. The boss (through his own empowerment) can control the situation. Once everyone knows that all will be treated equally and fairly, everyone falls into line. Once everyone knows that egos will be catered too, there will be dissension in the ranks. It is attitudes like yours that let people like Albert have there way.
No one is irreplaceable. No one.
I personally have done it wrong and I have done it right. It is amazing how when you do it right the problem goes away (after some pouting). In the end, those we were afraid of offending often rise to even higher levels.
If Albert was already getting his way with Tony, Mo could have changed that when he came in (unless BW didn’t allow it). There are probably several guilty parties here.
Let me add that the risk is not in upsetting the individual in question, The greater risk is letting them wrestle control away from those in charge and other players/employees. Fueling ego’s that are already over charged is a recipe for disaster.
What bus ride are you talking about?????????? If Albert’s wife is not on the charter and rents a car, Albert mist ride the bus? Most players drive there own cars to the airport in St Louis, for convenience on late night returns, even though a bus is provided. The high salary guys never travel in spring training. What bus ride? And those aren’t school buses for heaven sake. Bonds had it in his contract to have a limo to avoid taking a bus………..does Albert do that? What bus ride?
Back in post 43, WC asked me if Albert and Polanco are friends. They are. However, the Cardinals already have their second baseman. Polanco used to be a super sub, but I don’t think he has the bat for third. Finally, he doesn’t appear to have aged gracefully…
Some good posts yesterday. I like to read RCW because he is a real baseball guy. And Blingboy has good insights and is able to work well with him.
There was some discussion about ego and the healthiness of the quality of ego. This is obviously a fuzzy topic, without crystal-clear answers, so it is ultimately at some point a dead-end. No one knows for sure and its just one person’s opinion versus another persons.
Jumbo comes down solidly on the side of Albert, TLR, and Mo. Albert is a player of historical significance within baseball. As such, he is entitled to some status, deference, and respect. Albert is not the same guy as, for instance, Joe Thurston. Some players are leaders via performance, even if if they do not say a lot; their walk is their talk.
In some contexts in life, it can be good management practice to treat everyone exactly the same. However, MLB is not one of those situations. There are a lot of different social hierarchies and TLR and Mo know these need to be accommodated and respected.
We will see what happens with Holliday. This will be an early decision, with ripples.
If TLR is back for 2010, he must think Albert will be available for 2010, since there is no reason for TLR to hang around, if Albert is traded. If Albert is traded, it will be for TLR as if he accepted the job with the Nationals. The team may have to endure years of rebuilding and TLR likes to enjoy more W-L success than that.
Now as to Colby not having enough ego, JS is also firmly in support of whatever Colby thinks. Every ballplayer gets to make his own way in life and see things his own way, and also to change is his outlooks through time, if he sees reason to do so. This includes Rasmus, just like any other human being within MLB.
It seemed like Colby took it up a notch in the series against the Dodgers. Started making hard contact in all directions, going with pitches, using the whole field, not giving away outs. It was refreshing and a good sign for his future.
As to Placido Polanco, he and Albert are both from Santo Domingo, within the Dominican Republic. Both got out of there and made their way to the U.S. and played amateur ball here in the States, before drafted by the Cards. They probably have a lot of experiences in common. They are buds.
JS is firmly in support for both of them. Placido is handsome as well as handy.
I disagree that trading Albert would make the Cards uncompetitive. In addition to the players they would receive, they would free up $16 million in salary. Add that to the speculated $30 million that they already have to spend and this team would be immediately competitive and more competitive long term as the younger players acquired via trade developed.
I’m all for keeping Albert but he needs to step up and get a deal done. The Cards have said they are ready. If Albert wants to waffle, let him waffle for some other team.
Good advice from Jumbo all around.
Is that a Bondsian hat size Brian?
Albert has withdrawn. He won’t be so careless in his statements about future events from here on out. Hopefully he has learned his lesson. 162 games with 80 on the road is brutal for a family man.
I’m sure it can be challenging for a playboy rookie as well. Its every man for themselves when it comes to “what works”.
I’m seeing signs that the Cardinals will enter the season with a payroll in the low 80s. DeRosa is 35, he will be looking for a paycheck. Talking about Nady to make it look like we’re tight with Scottie. Doubt it. How about that Looper?
The future of Mr. Pujols is a tricky issue for the Cards, because there are various bad potential outcomes, and a fair amount of uncertainty.
The Cards could make Pujols the highest paid player in the game. However, this would tie up a lot of money on one player, and perhaps diminish money available for others.
It would not be nice for the fans, because the Cards never had to trade Gibson or Dean or Brock or Musial. So DeWitt would not like to become the first Cards owner to trade someone of Pujols’ stature. That would be unpleasant for DeWitt and a lot of fans would dislike him.
On the other hand, if Pujols leaves like Manny left Cleveland, a lot of fans will also be frustrated and then say, because everyone is so wise in retrospect, he should have been traded, so we can rebuild.
Mo is doing the right thing, reaching out to Albert and his agent now, in public. This puts them on some kind of a clock. We love you, we want to pay you what you are worth, lets figure out a deal. After the 2010 season, the Cards can decide whether to renew Pujols for 2011 or whether to trade him. They cannot decide that right now, because it would be nuts to get rid of the best hitter in the game, when we have him under contract for next year. TLR is on board for 2010. We should have a good competitive team, unless there are a lot of injuries and bad luck.
If Albert decides he wants to set a Milky Way Galaxy record for salary by going to a richer team, this will have to be his decision, and the Cards can trade him after 2010 or stay competitive in 2011 and collect the two picks.
In the meantime, I support TLR in Albert not having to go on trips during spring training with buses full of rookies and wannabes.
After 2010 Pujols is only tradeable with his permission 5/10 guy.
His value is significantly diminished with only 1 year left until free agency.
I could care less if Pujols rides the bus. I do care if he gets special treatment just because he’s a star.
Payroll in the low 80′s? That means by Westie accounting they will add almost no one (since in his mind the Cards are paying full freight for Lugo).
A side point only, but the Cardinals did trade away Dizzy Dean, to the Cubs in 1938.
There was that Carlton guy too.
Carioca, The Navy would be an organization with plenty of hierarchy. Some guys wear lots of gold and collect salutes, many more guys chip paint and offer salutes. Admirals are stars. The world is not a level playing field, with everybody getting the same treatment. Even in the Worker’s Paradises, the Politburo and Chariman Mao made out well for themselves.
When people get to the pinnacles of MLB, they are talented. Izturis can ride the bus or drive it for all I care, Albert should not be asked to do so. Its nice if Derek Jeter likes to set another example. I have no problem with him doing so. Its his choice.
TLR is sophisticated. He knows everyone is not the same and he tries to tailor to their circumstances.
Dizzy Dean had 6 strong years with the Cards. In 3 with the Cubs, he won a total of 16 games. The Cards captured his peak years.
Even if a couple of years older than officially claimed, Pujols should still have a few strong seasons left in his tank beyond 2011.
The timing of posts is a little off. I commented on Brian’s of 1252 and my post showed up ahead of his, rather than following.
I have a post showing up in the “Recent Comments” section that doesn’t show up anywhere else (should bbe on this thread).
I noticed this morning that my blog software did not pick up the Daylight Savings Time change, so I did it manually. That would explain the odd time stamps today. CC, I don’t see the lost post anywhere in the comment queue or spam filter, but maybe it got tangled in the time change. If you still see it, I suggest copying the text and reposting. Sorry for the confusion.
There is no reason a team shouldn’t have its version of executive restrooms and corner offices for the honchos. What is damaging to team morale and the young sprouts is the big star who thinks he’s entitled to dog it on the field.
One would think the Holliday offer will come any minute now, Monday morning latest. It would be nice to know if the 4/60 Bay offer is worded to expire Thursday midnight or not. If so, Bay might get weak knees with this Market and take it. The Mets seem more interested in Lackey and Figgins. This is exactly the right time to be looking at locking up a Holliday level guy. Westy’s pronouncement will go down in flames and the herd of namby pambies hiding in the bush can dust themselves off and regain their manhood.
I’m not that familiar with Albert’s career. I’m just assuming that his numbers in the first half of 2009 represent his best start ever, or in the vicinity anyway.
Playing with great starting pitching and one of the worst offensive teams I’ve every seen, Albert was a rare and precious stone set in a pile you know what. Tactically, the league had to openly pitch around him for the obvious competitive advantage. That massive ego recognition highlighted by his Ruthian trot to first after intensional passes both at home and in all stadiums in the division is difficult to quantify. Thirty plus Hr’s , 5 grand slams, talk of triple crowns, a commercial advertising you as one of the immortals that should be witnessed before he vanishes into the cornfield. The rhythm and pitch selection dictated by this scenario had to be more predictable, game situations always pressuring pitch location that fell on opposing teams to his advantage. All Star game approaching, almost a celebration of his dominance and fan adulation. A first half performance so strong that it forced BD to change his transition plan, that perhaps being the ultimate representation of his influence. We all know the story of his collapse one way or another. Consider this.
If you’re Albert, or his representation, and you saw fit to resolve all possible conflicts of interest concerning Albert’s health and future viability on your own initiative, and had it turn out as it did, which Albert do you want to negotiate future contracts with or for? First half Albert? Or second half Albert/ Holiday dominating the division but suffering the hazards that confront all mortals.?
Would you be out campaigning for better player support, or staying quietly at home knowing that first half Albert is your worst case and most likely playing scenario in 2010, all leading toward optimum leverage in your option year? Even if money isn’t his sole purpose for living, it is still the excepted recognition of player status in this day and age. Ask BD.
Once it’s established that the parties are talking about enough money to provide a family with financial security for a few generations, other considerations can come into play. These considerations can be both quality of life and quantity of life related, since an additionally luxureous lifestyle is a valid factor to be weighed with the others according to the individual’s tastes and priorities.
Everyone assumes Albert will be good as new, including Albert. If he believes in his own immortality, or idestructability, he will be very hard to deal with until his bargaining power goes up when he’s a 5/10. He has, right now, the ability to secure great riches for his family for generations to come, and fund his foundation. If he passes on it, who knows.
I do not consider the 5/10 issue much of a factor, one way or another. For 2011, Albert can have a choice of $16MM in St Louis or $30MM from another town. This kind of earnings difference can induce him to accept a trade.
Not sure what you are trying to say Jumbo. In 2011 he’s going to earn $16 million no matter what team he is with.
I see Pujols’ upcoming ten-and-five rights as an irritation, not a show-stopper. If the Cards decide to shop Albert in a year, they are going to piss him off enough that I suspect he would agree to a trade just to get out of town. It might also require some money. The alternative is one year of an angrier-than-usual Albert in 2011 before he walks. Today, he already has a limited no-trade clause. I don’t know how many teams are excluded.
I think everyone would agree. The table has been set. With 2 or 3 credible acquisitions, Cardinals will contend in 2010. It doesn’t have to be Holiday. All things said, he might not be the right guy for an Albert team. Cardinal starters will be tough in 2010 with any luck. The players are there at bargain prices. If BD wants Albert, all he has to do is play ball. If he pulls a 2008, Albert won’t play here in 2011. The message will be clear to all parties.
Today on SI.com “Holliday agent takes jab at McGwire”. I thought, ‘he’s at it again’. Checking out the referenced Chicago Tribue article, also dated today, to get the particulars, I find that the Tribune is just re-reporting what Boras had said at the GM meeting, and which both the Tribune and SI had already reported.
Boras will find a way to pay the friendlies somehow, the Trib will get the scoop on a deal or something, just wait.
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/128310-boras-takes-jab-at-mcgwire?eref=fromSI
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-15-share-rogers-on-baseball-nov15,0,7333355.story
Carioca, hypothetically, say the Cards arrange a deal with another team, as you seem to favor, then the prospective acquring team can have a negotiating window to sign Pujols to a big enough deal for him to agree to a trade. He will be due $16MM in 2011. However, he could sign a new deal with an acquiring team to pay him $30MM in 2011.
Now, yes, he could refuse and stick with his sub-market $16MM, but I would not count on it. Why would he want a higher salary in 2012 but not in 2011?
So like Brian, I dont see the 10/5 issue as a show stopper, its just another administrative factor within the overall mix.
Hopefully the Cards and Albert will figure out a long term deal before next November.
That’s just fudgin’ the numbers Jumbo. Any extra he gets in 2011 will be less he gets in the out years. You are also assuming that there will be a window. Just the fact that a team would require a negotiating window after 2010 shows how much his trade value diminishes by waiting an extra year (never heard anyone require a window for a player under control for 2 year).
Westie, woke up on a different side of the bed today? What’s with the optimism? Still think it will be hard for the Cards to get 2-3 key players for around $5 million AAV total (what would be needed to keep the salary total in the low 80 millions as you predicted — or are you backing off that already?
The Johan Santana deal would be a reasonable comp. He waived his no trade clause, got a new 6 year deal for big bucks, replacing his final year of contract with the Twins.
If Albert and the Cards cannot reach an agreement by next November, the Santana model could apply.
Albert plus a load of over the hill veterans, who would be the only players you could get cheap, is not gonna be enough to keep the cardinals in the running for the Central Division title year in and year out. It is my contention that if the cardinals aren’t going to be able to get a big name guy or two to put along side Albert that they should trade him this year in order to get the maximum in trade bounty for him. Now do I think this will happen? No, but I’m guessing it should.
Someone made a reference to the Herschel Walker trade propelling the Cowboys to a couple of championships and I believe this is the best way to stay competitive as I believe the Cubbies will start to appear more like the Yankess, in terms of payroll, in the not too distant future. And this will put the Cardinals in a pickle in terms of making the playoffs.
Now the drawback could be that many fans would not buy tickets right away if Albert was traded and we all know money runs these things so the Cards may have to just let Albert do what he wants so as to make it appear that they wanted Albert but that Albert didn’t want to be here.(I believe Beau already made a reference to this). Keeping Albert on the Cards will most likely keep people in the seats even if the cards finish second to the cubbies for years to come. But I still believe that Albert likes the way things are with TLR at the helm, and I still believe Albert may not want to be in St. Louis not knowing who will follow TLR as manager of the Cardinals.
My best guess is that the cards can’t find a way to sign any of the top line free agents and that they may look to trade a few more prospects in order to get Albert a little help for this year. Then try to get a feel for what Albert wants after this year, and decide how to approach their future depending on what direction Albert decides to go. But if the cards wait this long I don’t think they will be able to get the total rebuild package that they could get if they traded Albert this year.
RC, trading Albert is a very high-risk gamble. As I said before, there are plenty of Herschel Walker, Bartolo Colon-type deals that didn’t help.
How about Junior Griffey for Brett Tomko, Mike Cameron, Antonio Perez and Jake Meyer?
Here’s one of my all-time favorites: Tom Seaver for Pat Zachry, Steve Henderson, Doug Flynn and Dan Norman.
More recently, two years ago, the Marlins got six prospects from Detroit for Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis. One, Cameron Maybin, seems to have a chance. Andrew Miller is in Arizona trying to revamp his motion and the others are MIA.
It would all get down to what Pujols would fetch and what would become of them. Once the Cards would start down that path, I don’t know how they could back up and repair the damage. Look at Halliday’s results after Ricciardi left him hanging. We would have to ask Dr. WestCoast about the damage to Albert’s psyche if he had to remain with St. Louis for a year or two after having been unsuccessfully offered up as trade bait.
I am curious about your comment regarding the non-trade environment of Cardinals with Albert plus some over the hill veterans. That seems to sell short the players that have come up through the system. In this world of wild card parity, isn’t being competitive good enough with the hope one can get hot in October? Being the favorites surely did not work for the Cards in 2004, 2005 or 2009.
The Tiexiera trade by the Rangers is about what I’d expect an Albert trade to be like. It’s featured on the MLBRumors site this morning. They got all the Braves prospects, but so what. I’ve previously said that the Cards franchise with Albert is more valuable by far than without him. Prospects don’t get the team face time on the coasts like the best player of the era. BDW could make a nice profit by signing Albert for whatever it takes, then hanging out the FSBO sign.
I don’t normally read MLBTR, but I know the Teixeira story. That example reinforces RCs timing point because Tex fetched five players with 1.5 years remaining and just two at .5 years before free agency.
Of the players Atlanta gave up for Tex, Andrus and Feliz look like keepers. Saltalamacchia less so. The other two, I don’t know. A year later, all Atlanta got for Tex was Kotchman and a low-level prospect (40th round pick in 2004). The Angels picked up the two comp picks when Tex signed with the Yankees.
Yes, RCW has an annoying tendency to make a good case for what I don’t want to hear. But (imaginary world) if Rangers had ended up with a Holliday and a better group of prospects, then maybe they have something going.
Yea Brian, the Braves would sure like to have the Tex trade back. How nice it would be to have Andrus firmly in place for the next 6 years at short and Escobar at second, and then to have 100 mph coming at you from the bump in feliz, with Salty as a backup catcher.
If the Cards could land players of that magnitude it would be a nice tactical move IMO. If Albert does decide to leave and the Cards get two late picks the Cards will appear to have lost out in a huge way.
I’m going to dive into this later……… RC, the Cubs are perennially stupid. They have made more bad concept moves than seems possible………..all costing big money. There are no guarantees that the Cardinals, beyond being thrifty would fair well either in a prospects trade. I like Kevin Yuklis and a Lefty pitcher from Boston. Sign Holiday and that makes for a good chemistry line up.
I have made some comments about BD’s smart moves lately. His decision to change course with Pujols was born of fear and concern about the gold mine he is sitting upon caving in. The cash flow dynamics of this business are very important to him in the world at large at this point in time. He knows Albert will differ heavily on a long term contract. He will pursue it. And Cardinal village leverage that comes with the territory. This goes beyond the scope of this group, but the up coming trials in NY have a big influence on our current situation. I will watch that for everyone and report as necessary.
Albert is just where he wants to be. Playing hardball. The Cardinal offers and negotiations will be the foundation for the bidding when its time……..its best to be healthy and loved.
WC, I agree that BD knows that Albert could fly the coup and make life hard for the cardinals in the process. Thats why I would either sign him this off season to a long term deal or trade him. Either he would decide to sign long term with me or I’d throw him into the trade market and take the best offer, which I believe would be much better this year than next. If BD holds onto Albert until next year and Albert decides he is going to enter the free agent market then BD and the cardinals will have made a huge tactical error and Albert will hold all of the cards. BD will have to give into Alberts demands which could easily be 30 mil a year or risk looking like the cheapskate to the fans. And if BD/Mo traded Albert next year they wouldn’t get near as much in return for him.
All sound logic RC…………….. if those were the only influential variables. They are not. Albert’s agents have a plan and they are proving right in their concerns about a number of issues, starting and not ending with the elbow. Its BD’s play. He will show you his interpretation of the future soon enough. There are 180 million dollars or so in subsidies for Cardinal Village just hanging there. Lets watch.
Another factor is the unprecedented shit storm as soon as it leaked that Albert offers were being solicited. BDW and Mo would have to order some popemobiles to drive around in.(figuratively) St. Louis is provincial enough for local politicians to base a career on being the guy who saved us.
Bling, I agree with this point as well. St. Louis is one of the few places I would guess where the fans have influencial amounts of power. I would bet that no other city’s fans have as much pull as do the St. Louis fans. The cards will end up losing out in this deal because they know how sensitive the fans are about Albert and will be influenced to the very end by this.
Which is why the cardinals will most likely do what Albert wants in terms of the money Albert wants as well as the manager Albert wants, once TLR leaves. Albert has more power, I bet, than any other player for any other team.
Why? you ask. Because most of the fans feel the same way you do about Albert and this gives him the phenomenal cosmic power I spoke of earlier.
So, in other words, the Cards have a real baseball man calling the shots rather than the bean counters? Excellent! I will content myself with that as I head off to work, feeling smug.
Brian, the psychological profile on Albert at this time isn’t so good, even though all could resolve in a breathe. He is hanging low for a reason. No more offers to management about meetings that concern player acquisition and allowances in his negotiating posture to help subsidize that aim will be forthcoming. BD/Mo turned that down if you recall. It was Albert’s incredible year and the national publicity campaign that cause them to chicken out and run the Holiday maneuver.
Emotionally, he is being represented by professionals that know marketing and celebrity very well. The Tony/Albert tag team has got BD pinned down now. Everyones happy and ready to compete, so lets let the financial planners deal with those vulgar money concerns. Right!……………..For these guys, like any celebrity, the measure of fame would appear to be, how hard the fans pummel there chests as they weep at the thought of you leaving. Its about what price is the ticket on your next appearance. Its about playing the role. Elvis stood up in front of everyones girl friends and wives in tight leather pants, and gyrated his hips and flexed his pelvis to good effect. The women screamed and swooned. Lets face it, if Elvis is the milkman, your wife is likely to have some sort of white mustache at least two times a week. All this a by product of his personal search for self esteem following a difficult childhood. He had an insatiable appetite for posturing as the alpha male……… but needed to marry a 15yr old so he didn’t have to live up to his own personal hype.
With that in mind, I’m not so sure this attitude is going to be healthy and productive for Albert as a ball player. In a sense, his confusion this year was caused by the absents of normal self esteem criteria. He extended him self so far into the realm of the chosen or select individual, when his privacy issues were compromised with that All Star home tour prank, he was never quite the same. His All Star game interview include such memorable statements as ” God will tell me where to play” amongst others surprising statements. Like it or not, the self doubt that started showing at that time in his playing skills could easily be characterized as a breech or interruption in his inner dialog with his spiritual guide. That is a spiritual crisis common to Christian progressives and intellectuals who find that their charismatic appeals to church followers to follow another leaders teaching (Jesus), places them in an awkward and confusing state concerning their own personal aspirations and longings to seek divinity within themselves.
The tell…….if you see it announced that Albert is holding fast to his accustomed workouts and hitting drills…………heads up……….. that signifies that he is searching for something he thinks he might have lost………not a good thing. Lets hope he excepts change and finds grace in his search for a continued self confidence.
I guess I am just a simple sort. If I hear that Albert is holding fast to his workouts and hitting drills, I will consider that a good sign that his elbow is improving and he will be ready to play next season. Silly me.
You can’t look at a trade of a star about to be lost by FA without considering the dollars the team saves as well.
It is not Albert for 6 prospects. it would be Albert for 6 prospects and immediately freeing up $16 million a year for other player acquisition as well as freeing up $25 million + in the out years. The same goes for analyzing the Griffey trade, the Seaver trade, the Cabrera trade or any of them.
There is also the question of winning. Jumbo has implied the Cards would be non competitive w/o Albert. Looking at the Cabrera trade you see that the Marlins actually improved in each of the first 2 years after trading Cabrera and some of the prospects they received are still developing.
Seattle improved after trading Griffey.
I believe Cardinal fans like tradition. They also like winning. They also like loyalty. If Pujols rebuffs the Cards attempt to sign him to an extension I give Cardinal fans enough credit to understand if he was traded.
I also don’t believe the Card fans would be anymore forgiving if the Cards let Pujols walk than if they traded him.
True Brian………… Bone spurs and the flaking that causes the chips, is caused by stress on the bone. If there is no change in his drills……….. the Cardinals are asleep at the wheel or don’t care. Both are probably true. I have to predict then that the funk will continue. What he lost, isn’t lost, but if he’s looking, thats a bad sign.
I’ll add this………….if he is cranking it up this soon…….there was absolutely nothing wrong with that tendon. Consider the implications of that. Likely a bad diagnosis on the nerve transposition too. He may feel he is reclaiming lost value concerning his health. He sounds pissed to me if he isn’t resting.
Now the Jays are adding Wallace! They cant stay away from Cardinal talent!