I feel very odd today. The events of the last few days surrounding the return of Mark McGwire to Major League Baseball have put me in a frame of mind that I can’t recall experiencing before.
I actually feel sorry for Barry Bonds.
Bonds has been a resident of MLB’s doghouse for some time, having been placed there when news of his involvement in the BALCO case first came to light.
Like McGwire, Bonds’ defenders point out that he has never failed a test for steroids. His primary problems are in a legal area McGwire carefully chose to avoid, perjury.
Following Bonds’ record-breaking 2007 season, his contract with the San Francisco Giants expired. He made known his interest in playing the next season, yet reportedly did not receive a single contract offer.
Cardinals manager Tony La Russa is one of the few baseball officials to make public remarks in defense of Bonds the player. Though La Russa expressed interest in the outfielder joining his club for the 2008 season, nothing happened with St. Louis – or anywhere else, for that matter.
Though not proven, it was accused by some that Bonds has been blackballed from the game. Commissioner Bud Selig’s long-standing coolness toward Bonds has been well-documented.
Bonds had already broken McGwire’s single-season home run record in 2001 and in the summer of 2007 was approaching Hank Aaron’s revered top career home run total of 755. The baseball world seemed obsessed with how Selig would note the occasion.
One very strong opinion was expressed by another player once linked with steroids himself, Gary Sheffield.
“Bud Selig wants to talk about the integrity of the game? To him, the integrity of the game is how much money they make. That’s how far their integrity goes. I hope Barry not only breaks the record, but shatters it. The more homers Barry hits, the better, because that’ll really piss Bud Selig off,” Sheffield said in 2007.
Though Selig did follow the Giants for a time, he was not with the team on August 7, 2007 when Bonds hit number 756. Selig issued a statement labeling Bonds’ record “noteworthy and remarkable” and called Bonds to offer his congratulations. It was reportedly the first time the commissioner and the player still viewed by many at the time as one of the best in the game had spoken in several years. Two months later, the new career home run champ was out of work.
Ironically, Bonds broke Aaron’s record against Washington. That club’s home was the location of the infamous March, 2005 congressional hearing.
Was the real issue that day the use of steroids by individual players or the bigger picture – that the game had not moved nearly quickly or decisively enough to stop the use of PEDs during a heady time of record revenue, attendance and likely, profits?
Selig was among those in the room when McGwire personally took the highly-public and painful fall for the game of baseball’s years of inattention to a problem that was both widespread and well-known by that time.
Had McGwire talked, he could have opened a gaping wound that may have further exposed and embarrassed Selig’s grand old game. Instead, Mac took a bullet for the team.
Could gratitude over protection of his golden goose and perhaps some personal guilt over McGwire’s humiliation be guiding Selig’s very different reaction toward McGwire compared to Bonds?
If not that, what is it? Thanks for the rejuvenating effect the 1998 home run chase gave his game? All the invisible work McGwire has done for steroids awareness and prevention since his 2005 pledge to do so?
How about an even more contemporary example, baseball’s highest-paid player, Alex Rodriguez? As the world knows, this spring A-Rod was forced to admit past use of PEDs and did so, stating he used them for several years starting in 2001. Coincidentally that was Bonds’ 73-home run year and McGwire’s final season as a player.
Eight months ago, Selig said the following in reaction.
“While Alex deserves credit for publicly confronting the issue, there is no valid excuse for using such substances, and those who use them have shamed the game.”
Contrast that with Selig’s remarks this week regarding McGwire’s return.
“I have no misgivings about this at all,” Selig said. “Mark McGwire is a very, very fine man and the Cardinals are to be applauded. I give Tony La Russa a lot of credit and (Cardinals chairman) Bill DeWitt a lot of credit for making this happen. I was—and am—very supportive of their decision.”
What are the key differences?
- A-Rod was caught and admitted guilt. McGwire was not caught and admitted nothing.
- The first shamed the game while the second is welcomed back with no reservations.
Maybe Gary Sheffield and those who see the world like him aren’t crackpots at all.
Putting this all together, I am becoming less and less convinced that McGwire will say anything of substance (no pun intended) when he does talk. Apparently what he has done to date is just right for Selig, and that counts for an awful lot.
Nice work in shaping a complex subject Brian. I’m going to contemplate the many shapes and forms of discrimination on my walk.
Can Bonds still play? (1.045 OPS in ‘07). I’m not saying anything like ‘in for a penny, in for a pound’. I’m just sayin’….
Wouldn’t that put Schmelig in a pickle.
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bernies-extra-points/bernies-extra-points/bernies-5-minutes/2009/10/pujols-clears-up-contract-speculation-praises-mcgwire/
Albert hits multiple radio station. Tony/Albert are now pressing toward “getting the FA signed ” . Thats good to see that they have a plan. Kick it out BD.
I feel Barry was blackballed from the game but I haven’t seen any evidence that Selig was behind it.
A-Rod shamed? cheap words by Bud but I haven’t seen any evidence of that by the public, the press or even MLB.
These are some interesting articles done on the subject. It is important to recognize the players in this. After all, a simple denial and defamation suit by Rodriguez against Sports Illustrated would have produced some fireworks, but look at what became of that harsh reality. You don’t want to corners some beasts……………It is the identity of the players in this game, and their interests that command respect. Or fear.
I would say that this whole issue is highly orchestrated by ??????????????.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090730&content_id=6157972&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4424048
http://blogs.findlaw.com/tarnished_twenty/2009/08/mlb-drug-list-ruling-unlikely-to-curtail-scandal.html#more
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/228377-please-people-stop-recommending-the-mlb-release-the-list
Brian, one thing I like about your essay is you are doing some critical and outside the box thinking.
You may be looking for consistencies, when things do not have to be consistent, because of changing politics and understandings, through time.
Bonds also was targeted by a Federal investigation and later was prosecuted for perjury in grand jury testimony. This is one essential difference. The Commissioner of MLB will want to be careful about saying things too positive about Bonds, knowing he is being investigated and then later charged. I dont know where Barry’s case is today. If he beats the rap, then a Commissioner can say more positive things about him.
McGwire did not deny anything. This is tatamount to admission, akin to nolo contendere.
This has been a difficult issue for MLB. The players union did not want testing for years (so players could use PEDs). When the Commissioner gets called out by politicians, he has to say he is in charge and take the heat, for public relations. However, MLB is really a partnership between the Union and the Owners, so until Congress started giving MLB a hard time, the Union would not accept a testing regieme. In time, MLB and the Union both came to see that a testing regieme was a way to protect their sport and the reputations of teams and players against the politicians and sportwriters.
As a person, A-Rod may not be all that respected, within the game. McGwire probably is, among ballplayers. Thats why Bud will say something nice about the latter. A-Rod may be a great hitter, but as person, bleah.
I can say what Selig will never admit. PEDs are mostly a PR problem for MLB. I doubt teams and players regard the topic as serious in terms of hurting the game, though of course they have to come down hard on them, in public, for PR purposes.
The hearings in 2005 had political motivations. Some of the politicians are now out of office, or in the minority, or now have much more important topics to debate. This would be another factor facilitating McGwire’s return. Its safer for him to come back and for Bud to say something nice about him. The 2005 hearing was in Washington. Nowadays with a frail economy, wars, health care, deficits, etc., they have other things on their mind.
Another way this could be looked at….
The union resisted testing until such time as Congress started squeezing stars in public and making their lives miserable, tarnishing heroes. This is bad for business, bad for both the union and owners. The union switched to wanting a testing program to protect the players.
If you are Selig, who do you like most? Liars before the Senate like Palmeiro and Clemens? They make the sport look awful. Ratfinks like Canseco? We hate that guy, making money by messing with the golden goose. A-Rod, Mr. fool around with aging Madonna? How does that make baseball look good? No, for Bud, his best guy before Congress was the one who did not lie, just preferred not to talk about the past. Did the honorable thing. Did not squeal on others or lie or run around with Mrs. Ritchie. Went quietly off into retirement, got out of sight while the bears were on the prowl. No wonder Bud likes Mark.
Some good comments out of Jose. He wished McGwire well and wants to move forward.
http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2009/10/28/jose-canseco-%e2%80%9ci-am-very-glad-that-mark-mcgwire-got-a-coaching-job%e2%80%9d/
Canseco has a good grasp of the situation. Every player trying to help his city, and he Canseco became persona non grata with a tell all book.
Former Cong. Davis (R-Va) liked hearing McGwire is back in the game.
Lots of goodwill for Mark McGwire, standup guy.
Regarding whether Gary Sheffield is a crackpot……Sheff often does not say things in a tactful way. He can be annoyingly blunt. Because he takes strong positions, he can sometimes be strongly wrong.
But Sheff is right that money is important. Its very important to the owners and Bud, and its very important to the players and their agents. Both the union and the Commisioner want to protect the image of the integrity of the competition in the eyes of fans, since this helps with the purpose of making money. So in the case of the quote within Brian’s article, Sheff is no crackpot.
Its not easy for MLB to showcase Gary Sheffield as a credit to the game. Sheff gets mad sometimes and says awkward or wrong things.
I have not read much about Barry Bonds, but he does not seem to have a winning personality. He tried to blame some drug test on a team-mate. Jeff Kent and Barry had a falling out Bonds can swing the bat, but Barry does not have a likeable personality by many accounts.
If Barry is your all time HR leader, this cannot be easily undone, and Bonds is not a great marketing image for the game. Another modern slugger also has a bum image: Sammy Sosa took PEDs, got caught with a corked bat, and left his last Cubs game in the 2nd innning and lied about it.
In contrast to such folks, McGwire has some advantages. He took PEDs, but a huge number of athletes did for decades, in multiple sports, so there was nothing special about his doing so. Athletes are not dumb. They will try ideas to improve their athletic performance. Its only human. Contrary to legends, they are not dying at a higher rate than before. No big harm done to the jocks, who enjoyed the trip to the bank.
So I can see how Bud might like seeing McGwire get back into the game. McGwire spent decades studying and pursuing the art of hitting. He likes working with younger men to improve their craft. McGwire stays away from TV talkshows, unlike Canseco. He just likes playing and teaching baseball, not babbling his brains out in interviews.
Should McGwire be intimidated for the rest of his life and stay away? McGwire was brave enough to stand in at the plate against a lot of tough pitchers. Now that the politicians in Washington have moved onto other topics, Mark can get back to doing what he ehjoys, being a good team-mate, inside the Clubhouse.
Jumbo said: “Contrary to legends, they are not dying at a higher rate than before. No big harm done to the jocks…”
Care to elaborate on the source of these “findings”?
Brian, if you cite a published study, then I may be to assess its weaknesses and strengths.
A lot of folks believe many things and cite studies. Trial attorneys love studies. Activists love studies. BB’s bears love studies. The world is awash with studies, many of which conflict with one another.
When you offered an essay that MLB should count statistics from a league of the 1880s, I thought you made a strong case. If you throw one over the plate, then I would be obliged to call it a strike.
This thing with McGwire seems important for what it says about what the Cardinals think. DeWitt is for it. Mo is for it. TLR is for it. Even Tom Davis, Bud, and Jose Canseco are for it. I am happy to be on the team’s wavelength.
Yet it reflects well on you to be skeptical and to have questions about ethical aspects of this topic.
On McGwire pledging to campaign against steroid use, that must have been a little white lie (ie, social excuse) to escape the pesky Senators. I would definitely not hold that against Mark. Quite the contrary.
If Canseco thinks steroids are so bad, then he should campaign against them. Jose should go door to door, all over America, spread the gospel.
The pledge was something thrust upon him which he couldn’t decently refuse, however much he hates that sort of thing. The politicians knew that, just as they could not refuse to kiss a baby however ugly. Having been stonewalled, they saved face by extracting what they could. It will be quite funny if that pack of liars become indignant about Mack blowing off a promise.
It should be noted that Mr. Hooten is not outraged, as one would expect, since MM has established himself as a golden goose for Mr. Hooten’s foundation. We are not talking about a dummy here. As Boo Boo said, “He’s smarter than the average bear.”
How about the statistic guys doing this. Calculate the accelerated expansion of the Free Agent market salaries led by the steroid enhanced record breakers. Pitchers and hitters. Then you will understand GWB’s “moral” crusade against PED’s. Add in the pressure on the union and you have plenty of cause to loose the “Justice Department” on the whipping boy Barry Bonds etc.
When the investigators said they found the combined list of names and correlating test samples on a one computer at a lab in SD,,,,,,,,,, they were of course lying in an attempt at setting up an alibi encase court proceeding got out of hand. The 2003 three tests were merely to establish a criteria of 4% or 5% to justify further testing and culpability for abusers in future testing. There would never have been a need to combine those lists, especially for some lab jockey in SD to try an extortion scheme. The Union’s legal pressure created a need to cover the Commissioners ass for suppling that list to investigators. That last A-rod leak came during the White House transition period. A little extra something before you lost the Justice Department and the investigation. Bonds will eventually win a collusion suit.
Keep in mind that there were no secrets for GB and his buddies. The data mining operation that they had from 2003 on meant a simple phone number or e-mail address could produce almost anything you could imagine.
bb, outstanding. McGwire had to kiss an ugly baby or say thank you very much for a terrible meal, as social ettiquette to get out the door and help the Congresspeople save face. However, if Mark had actually campaigned against steroids, it would have been like the terrorists won.
Selig got worked over by Congresspeople too. He knows how little fun it is go up to Capitol Hill for the bears to pontificate and splutter outrage as part of their re-election strategies. Bud and McGwire have been veterans within the same faux war, no wonder Bud loves Mark.
Roger Clemens’ mistake was to think he could lie to the bears. They are masters of lies, its what they do for a living. They can detect the scent of another bear 1,000 miles away. And Rog was popular inside Texas, making him especially yummy. Bud does not love Rog, because Clemens was stupid and a dreadful liar.
Its a strange thing.
Most viewers of the Roger Clemens hearing would conclude that Roger lied. His buddy Andy Pettitte said Rog lied. Even Mrs. Clemens was said to have admitted to using steroids, just not Roger, according to Roger. How credible is that?
But so far, the prosecutors have only gone after Barry Bonds, for supposedly lying in the privacy of a grand jury proceeding, ranther than clumsily and on his own initiative, on 60 Minutes and then before Congress, like Rog. Roger perjured himself massively more and much more openly (before TV audiences) than Barry could have done in the grand jury. Roger broadcast lies. I have not heard of Roger’s indictment yet, however.
Society would have to build a heck of a lot more prisons , if we had to prosecute every single celebrity for their dopey thoughts or for taking some molecule that somebody else does not think they should have taken. There would not be anyone left in Hollywood, not necessarily a bad thing. Every player in the NFL, NBA, MLB, off to the stockade. An Olympic swimmer was toking weed in South Carolina, he would need to be put away. With all the nuttiness among financiers on Wall Street and investment banks, there may have been some naughty molecules involved with some of them, behind the scenes, it would not be surprising.
Its may be tempting to simplify and just focus all the blame for PED use on McGwire and Bonds, because celebrities, and flog them for the foilbles and imperfections within so many human beings, across society as a whole.
There are a lot of nasty people out there who like nothing better than to verbally rip someone else a new one. It isn’t socially justifiable to attack people out of the blue, so they wait for some sort of morally imperfect flaw to use as an opening or an excuse. Bonds is a jerk and a roid user while McGwire seems like a roid user and a nice enough guy. Bonds is an easier target, but both get their share of verbal abuse.
On the other hand, I don’t feel sorry for athletes or entertainers. Their work isn’t particularly impactful in advancing society as a whole, yet they are showered with more riches than most doctors, scientists, or people making actual differences. Baseball players “earn” millions of dollars for hitting a ball with a bat. The only value in doing something like that is in entertaining others, in making people like you and want to see you. People don’t like cheaters and liars, even if they weren’t technically breaking the rules. People want to root for the honest, hard working underdogs. People feel betrayed with their heroes are exposed as less than heroic.
If you want to make untold riches for playing a game by entertaining others, then don’t get outraged when people no longer want to sing your praises after acting unlikable. Most people don’t like Bonds, so he sits at home. He has no value. McGwire is still marketable, so he gets a job. He can still sell tickets. There’s no moral injustice in the unequal treatment. They’re just big, dumb guys who swing sticks.
Nutlaw, you make some interesting points.
For instance, owners, managers, ballplayers are in the public domain. Teams will lose, fans will get riled, and sportwriters in service to fans will point out or claim mistakes were made by someone. So perceived flaws are going to get worked over and the bigger you are within the game, the more you are going to be an appealing target for someone. Nobody cares if Gary Bennett used steroids. He could take more than ARod or Canseco or Clemens, and no one will care, because he is little known.
One problem is that people are not perfect in every respect. Ballplayers can be held to an excessively high standard of public aspirations about them.
Most baseball players never reach the majors. Most who reach the majors have short careers. For those who really do achieve monster earnings, the choice for society is whether Bill DeWitt and his buddies should keep all the moola or whether the human beings who actually play the game should get a share? I do not have a problem with players getting their share, in part because so many other ballplayers earn little, during their years in the game, and because owners should not just grab it all.
Bonds is not involved with MLB these days, in part because he is being prosecuted and teams would be leery to hire him, even given the presumption of innocence. On the other hand, McGwire knows a lot about hitting and is not being investigated or prosecuted, so can be hired to contribute his knowledge to younger hitters. Bonds and McGwire may vary in likability, but it is their legal differences that puts one in uniform and the other not.
Bonds and McGwire may both be large men. I would not wish to suspect either is relatively unintelligent. And, to keep things in balanced perspective, doctors and scientists can also make personal and professional mistakes. They too are human and thus imperfect.
The fans don’t get to choose whether or not the players or owners make more money. The fans pay the owners and the owners pay the players. Unless the players decide that they are worth more than the league and run off to play elsewhere, their only value is in bringing in money for the owners. Outside of employment in the MLB, there is very little worth in being able to throw or hit balls better than others.
If all of the best players in the world were to suddenly vanish from existence, the next best players in the world would be just as good in comparison to the lower level of talent. They would be just as heralded and just as well rewarded. The money comes from the stadiums and the marketing and the television deals.
Okay, Jumbo. So the fans don’t like Barry and thus he becomes an easier and more acceptable target for the media and some lawyers trying to make a name for themselves, and thus the money he would have gotten instead goes to the next best players, who are probably more likable and bring in more good press and more fans than guys like Bonds or Sheffield. Every ball player comes and goes and the league remains. They are easily replacable because many people out there would choose to play baseball if they were offered 400k a year minimum.
It’s all image and hype to begin with. It’s all imaginary. It doesn’t matter whether the players are perfect or not. They are hyped up as supermen. If the hype fades and they turn out to be jerks and drug abusers, then their image is gone. You don’t have to pay to watch mean drug abusers, you have to pay to watch supermen. You can find mean drug abusers anywhere.
Doctors and scientists will be fired if they don’t perform their jobs well. Baseball players are entertainers. Their jobs are to impress others with their physical prowess and become heroes for the fans that they represent and whose pride hinges upon their behavior. If they can’t do that, then they are just big, dumb guys swinging sticks.
Really, would we be happy if the Cardinals signed a player like Bonds or Sheffield? Would that make us happier fans? Would we be proud to brag to our friends that we’re backing Barry Bonds? This is the same crowd that jumped all over me when I said that Milton Bradley was a good signing by the Cubs, and rightfully so. You don’t want a guy like Bradley representing your city or your team.
I’m a Vikings’ fan, but I wasn’t bragging to my buddies when they signed Favre. Sure, like many Vikings fans, I was pleased that my team’s play would get better and delighted that the Packers’ fans would be cheesed over the move. I’ll brag about my team’s play, but I won’t go out and buy a Favre jersey (unless I can find a way to really upset some Packers’ fans with it). Favre once again showed himself to be an indecisive, attention-grabbing, manipulative, (traitorous?), lazy jerk this off-season. People will tune in to watch him, but most of them just want to see him beaten into the ground. Vikings’ fans have become despised again, like they were a few years ago with the party boat and all of the arrests that kept popping up. It mutes the fun to root for people you don’t like.
Regarding your last paragraph, Nutlaw, there is medical malpractice. While some of it may owe to sleazy trial lawyers, its hard to imagine all doctors are perfect all the time, because health is a difficult field.
As regards science, it is predicated on debate within areas of disagreement. It can be surprising and mystifying how large groups of educated people can be mistaken. Consider all the economists at universities and working for the government who missed the flaws in financial instruments on Wall Street. Lots of smart people lost money to Bernie Madoff’s con. There was a fund that needed a bailout in the late 1990s that bet the wrong way on something and ended up billions in the hole; it had two Nobel laureates in economics on its board of directors.
I agree with you ballplayers work in the entertainment industry. I cannot agree that just because a human being earns money swinging a stick he should be assumed to be just a dumb guy. In reality, he could be a dumb guy, but there is a chance that he might be very smart too. Similarly, he might be a jerk or he might be a nice guy. People are each different and its good to consider each as an individual, on their strengths and weaknesses.
Jumbo, grant me the creative hyperbole and stop skipping the point.
Pujols has said nice things about Bonds. TLR said he was willing to play Bonds. Probably Albert and TLR are respectful of Bonds’ achievements, within the game. However DeWitt and Mo were unwilling to recruit Barry back when this was talked about a few years ago likely because Bonds was under investigation and they did not want him in a Cards uniform when indicted.
The personality and character of a player is a relevant factor when teams make trade and free agent decisions. Some guys are inflexible or hotheaded when they encounter an aggravation. This can hurt them, in terms of likeability with fans and hurt their earning power. If the Cubs had done well in 2009, Bradly might be the toast of Chicago. However, things did not go well for the Cubs and Milton.
Yeah, though you have to figure that Pujols and TLR just want to win. They wouldn’t care if Bonds was a cheat or an unpleasant guy. They aren’t particularly friendly themselves, but their images are clean and they make sure to let everyone know about their charitable work, so they don’t have to worry about what other players did. It will take more winning to grow their legends.
Nice thread guys. I would like to see Bonds hit again. It won’t happen here. Maybe the AL. Thats only if his collusion suit starts to look strong. They have Bonds and Clemens lined out to guard the tomb of the “juicers” for eternity.
I will defend TLR and Albert. Both are very recognizable and cannot walk down a street without being noticed. That has to be hard.
Albert seems family oriented and sponsors a foundation that does good works. He seems sincerely devout. Should we care if he seen as surly to some reporters? If everyone on earth wanted to talk to me, be my friend or ask for a loan, I would be surly too or in hiding or both.
TLR gives good interviews to the press. He says honest things. Anything you say about anything is probably going to disappoint someone. Every decision any manager makes is going to be second guessed by somebody.
Bonds may not have a great personality, but I am not sure how bad a guy he is, behind all the media hype. Maybe TLR thinks Bonds could be an ok team-mate. I would have to rely on TLR’s judgment, since he is an insider and fans mostly only know what they hear reported.
Bonds had the bad luck to be playing in the Bay area when a DA decided to investigate Balco. If Bonds played in 28 other cities, he would not have been investigated. If McGwire and Giambi had remained in Oakland, maybe they would have been investigated, not Barry. Luck tends to be unevenly distributed.
You have a very selective interpretation of your owners “leanings” Jumbo. Mark Maguire is a Tony trick, like the release of Kennedy. The concern here, and why I have to pay attention to the Big Picture in watching BD, is why is he showing so little confidence in his business plan. Reason tells me it is unlikely to be a lack of confidence. This guy made a superior maneuver this year financially.
He is on his game. That means there are other variables. Next move is his. Lets see where he is headed. It ain’t Bonds.
I’m not attempting to attack TLR or Pujols. They both seem like genuinely good people. They are the faces of my team and I’m more than pleased about that. All I said is that they aren’t particularly friendly and that they don’t have image problems. They don’t have to be friendly, but I bet if someone dug up some dirt on them somewhere, their grumpiness would make them bigger targets. I’m not saying that that is good or bad, just that it is.
As the original article states, Bonds’ legal problems don’t stem from steriods, but from perjury. McGwire was smart enough to avoid perjury. It wasn’t as if denial from any of these roids guys were particularly convincing in the long run, anyway. He wasn’t smart enough to just Giambi up and admit it and let it blow over. If he didn’t do it, he would have proclaimed his innocence. It’s the insulting evasiveness that gets people riled up. He’s likable enough for people to forgive him if he just says that he is sorry. Hiding showed no regret and gave no chance for forgiveness. He made his own bed.
Federal attorney’s often use the postion to make names for themselves in the papers and to move on to elective office. An example is Rudy Guilani, elected mayor of NYC and ran for the Republican nomination for President in the last election cycle.
Or, Elliott Spitzer was a very ambitious DA who got elected Governor of New York, before he got caught patronizing the world’s oldest profession and had to resign in disgrace.
Why do so many Illinois politicians get into trouble? Maybe politics is a tough profession and maybe there is a Federal DA and an FBI office in Chicago, so the politicians get investigated more there than in backwater places.
In other words, Barry Bonds went to a big city, San Francisco, achieved fame and this makes him a tempting target to be investigated, if he gets near anything questionable and there is an ambitious prosecutor around.
You Nutlaw like clarity. You want someone to proclaim “innocence”. Well what if McGwire did not feel guilty of anything to have used PEDs just like everyone else? Or you want him to say something goofy and apologize vaguely, and then the matter will blow over, as with Giambi. But this could be cynical. What if McGwire were too honorable to follow the Giambi path?
What if there is, at root, nothing to apologize for? McGwire like lots of other guys just tried to be the best he could be. Should McGwire say, I am sorry to have used steroids like loads of other athletes? This would ratfink on other ballplayers.
I see what you mean about “evasiveness” and going into hiding and showing no regret. I like privacy and do not think a player owes it to fans to tell them what he thinks. If they decide not to like him, this can be their choice, fine by me. What matters now is how he advises hitters.
I do not care if McGwire gets into the Hall of Fame. Thats up to voters and I am not one. If voters want McGwire to make it easier for them by doing a Giambi act, then its up to him to decide whether to help them out. I pay McGwire the respect of thinking he has taken a job as a hitting coach and is not merely campaigning for personal recognition in the Hall of Fame. He has already showed over the past few years that campaigning for himself or making vague apologies are not his cup of tea.
But as DeWitt said, McGwire is going to have to say something, after the Series. We shall all have to wait and here what McGwire has to say. He owes me no apology, but he may need to say something to prevent himself from becoming a distraction, because some fans must be genuinely troubled, understandably given all the information, misinformation, politics, and confusion.
I can’t find McGwire’s mumbling and hiding to be honorable. If there was nothing to be sorry for, then these players wouldn’t hide the fact that they took steroids. They’d just fess up and shrug it off. Some more or less do, then the problem goes away.
I’m excited about McGwire joining the team and he doesn’t owe me an apology either. I hold him in high esteem, particularly for walking out of his massive contract at the end of his career. However, he could quickly and simply put a rest to the fuss if he’d just state the obvious and stop pretending that not commenting is a clever way to get around this. He already copped to using andro and everyone already knows that he used more. The image of an honest and remorseful ex-roid user is much better than the mess he’s made now.
Nutlaw, you and I seem to agree on a variety of things. But to discuss some additional points.
I do not think McGwire was “pretending” not to comment as some sort of excuse. He was not asking to be excused or forgiven. If you think about it, takes some unusual strength too. He did not lie or give dopey excuses like most everyone else. He manned up and took what they had to dish out.
He never made a secret of the andro. And for a generation or more, loads of athletes, across all kinds of sports, have worked to give themselves an advantage. Has taking steroids messed up his health? Lots of people take them safely. Doctors prescribe HGH. This is like a Salem witch-hunt.
Now baseball has added a testing program. This can help protect the McGwires of the future from harassment. He can say that he fully supports the testing program. No one should support it more than Mark, after the garbage that has been heaped on him. Its nice that his spirits are undaunted and he is willing to give coaching a try.
Another way to look at this….the Congreessmen needed a Fall Guy. They said there was a problem, so they needed a villain.
Sosa and Pineiro took the easy way out and lied. McGwire was not going to lie and expose himself to perjury and he was not going to admit anything, and expose himself to some other kind of liability. He was retired and out of the game. He sidestepped.
But in doing so, he gave the Congress someone to fulminate over. MLB had to sacrifice somebody to the Congresspeople. And so, on behalf of Bud and the Union, Mark took the hit.
You see, Sosa and Palmeiro were still playing. They could not afford to give themselves up.
The only guy called to Capitol Hill who was a past player was Mark McGwire. He manned up, on behalf of everyone else in the industry.
Semper Fideles, MM. Welcome back.
Westie – BDW is a smart business man. My guess is he is following his business plan. Sorry that doesn’t jive with what you think it is/was. Maybe you need to go back to tea leaf reading school.
Jumbo – Tony gives honest answers? Give me a break. At best you might say he gives honerable answers in that he often defends players and situations when he knows they screwed up (even if it means lying). My experience is that people with big egos seldom are able to be totally honest.
Carioca, I said something kind of fuzzy, when I said Tony says honest things. I think he tries to do this, where room to do so. Sometimes what he says is not everything, because not everything can be said or it would take a long time to say everything. Its just my opinion, but TLR generally tries to be forthcoming, within the limitations of what he can say. Tony can’t say Pujols’ elbow is hurting him, so he will spin stories to cover up for this, because this is the right thing to do, given his duties.
As for TLR’s ego, he has to have strength to get through all the long seasons. Anybody like Tony or Lou Pineiella who has been thru the baseball wars, cannot be a blushing violet. He has to keep his eye on a bunch of guys who are highly paid and must have egos themselves. I think Tony reads people well, important in his line of work. People say TLR is smart, so then they expect him to be a genius about everything. We fans may expect too much of human beings within baseball.
Well, Jumbo, I think that you and I have agreed upon about all that we’ll agree upon in this matter. We’re coming at this from slightly different angles, but I hear what you’re saying. Good conversation. Thanks.
Thanks, Nutlaw. I enjoyed learning your outlooks and am grateful for your sharing them, so I can understand the reservations others have about McGwire, with more insight and sympathy. I have looked at the steroid stuff as an attack on the game. Its possible for this to be true, even while I take aboard your points. Ethics are important, in all aspects of life. I dont want to seem to give them short shrift, even if my own personal take is a little different. It does not need to be yours. Everyone is diffferent. and I deeply respect the rights of others to hold their own views. It would be a pretty sad world if everyone thought one thing.
McGwire’s situation is a murky and difficult topic. Most of us like clarity and closure. I do too. At the same time, maybe being older, I have become accustomed to some things being ambiguous and not neat, as we might like them. Idealism is still important, so I would never wish you to compromise your values.
I will be interested to hear McGwire’s side of the story, if he shares it.
Werth is about everything Ludwick is not. Did you see his position, even on a tough pitch. Lets hope MM comes ready to teach. Lets hope he knows something.
Maguire, Sosa, Shilling, Palmeiro, Canceco.
The knew Sammy and Rafael were dirty, as they knew Shilling wasn’t. Canseco stands alone..Maguire may have been a hoped for Pigeon, but he didn’t perjure himself. Considering the A-rod leak, and timing, some are a little slow to recognize Bush administration tactics and behaviors. They accomplished what they wanted. I think Bonds knows he is free to play now. If he is ready he might. Another investigation into the Bonds harrasment may have been threatened?
Big stardom feeds the ego, and that big ego causes the big stars to believe they have some intrinsic value, which they do not. By that I mean not any more than you or I, and in some cases less. Bonds for example, believed his value was in hitting homers, and his OPS, things which depended entirely on him, internal things. Bonds value, he thought, was in being Bonds, and continuing to do Bonds-like things. In fact, his value was in making money for an owner, which was affected by many external things. The ebb and flow of popular opinion, senators needing face time, whatever. Bonds’ strategy, in denying drug use, was employed for the purpose of preserving that percieved intrinsic value. To continue to be Bonds. A-Rod’s strategy was designed, not to protect the legend which alone has no value, but to preserve his ability to make money for an owner (the true source of his value). McGwire, having already retired, didn’t have to choose a strategy. He just opted out, which means he can still choose which way to go. Will he chooose to defend the legend, or ring the register?
BB, A-Rod had a long-term deal, and a key thing is they cannot prosecute every ballplayer, because there are some genuine criminals to hunt for and they cannot fool around investigating hundreds of different baseball players, so A-Rod was safe if he just mumbled some lame excuses. A-Rod is protected in part by the prosecution of Bonds, because Barry is the warning to the other players. There is no big reason to prosecute more than one or a few stars, even if hundreds of players used PEDs. The playing field of justice is not level, at least in this instance.
Bonds worked hard to set the all time HR record. He should be proud of this epic achievement. He did not roll over for the investigators and gave them ambiguous testimony. Since they only went after him on perjury, their other evidence must be iffy, for court purposes. Barry achieved his record, so MLB was mostly done with him by the time he was being investigated, whereas A-Rod had many more years of play to contribute. So Bud says A-Rod shamed himself, which is an oral slap on the wrist which leds A-Rod keep playing for the big New York market.
Meanwhile Barry can get prosecuted on behalf of everyone else. Chances are he will beat the prosecution, but if not Obama can give him a pardon, since its ridiculous to prosecute one guy for what so many were doing. Hitting homeruns should not be a crime. And if Bonds gets convicted for lying, Clemens should get a sentence of 10,000 years in the pokey for his crazy whoppers.
Jumbo, there are two universes. In Clemmonsland greatness, and self worth, are measured by column inches in the record book, plaques, statues, stuff named after you. In A-Rodland, the measure of a man is found in the bank balance. We are capitalists after all, MLB could exist nowhere else. This is why Gary Bennett can walk through the deep dark woods, and fear no evil. He is not edible. MM, on the other hand, is a prime cut. Fortunatly, as you correctly point out, he does not have to outrun the bears, he only has to outrun Bonds.
BB, just to clarify about Clemens. Roger is very mercenary, not just motivated by records. He and the Hendricks Brothers made sure Roger got big bucks out of the Astros. Then there was an annual farce during which Clemens would sell himself to the highest bidder among the Astros, Bombers, and Red Sox. Roger is a perfect fusion of ego and lust for money. It took an unusually blind human being to want to go on 60 Minutes and deny PED use.
Good line about Bennett fearing no evil.
In a more just or more genuine world, if a guy commits a crime, he will be held accountable if caught, whether he be a big shot or small fry. Outside the fantasy land of baseball, laws are not written to excuse the Gary Bennetts, and even bit time jocks like A-Rod and McGwire, while only applying to Barry Bonds. Gary Sheffield is wiser than many of us might expect.