In what may have been his St. Louis swan song, enigmatic outfielder Rick Ankiel pinch-hit with two outs in the bottom of the ninth inning of game three of the National League Division Series Saturday night.
Not surprisingly, he struck out, the same outcome as in his ninth-inning appearance in game one. This time, it both ended his year and that of his team.
No one knows what the stoic Ankiel was feeling. Perhaps it was relief.
Getting punched out by opposing hurlers had become an alarming late-season habit for the free agent to be. From September 15 through the end of the regular season, Ankiel had 32 at-bats. He struck out in exactly 50 percent of them, 16, while collecting just six hits (.188).
To help put Ankiel’s recent rate into perspective, Arizona’s Mark Reynolds eclipsed his own Major League record for strikeouts with 223 this season. Reynolds did that in 578 at-bats, fanning 38.6 percent of the time.
Some people suspect that Ankiel’s bone-jarring May 4 collision with the Busch Stadium outfield wall caused a lingering shoulder injury that explains his decline. His stats would suggest otherwise.
At the time of his accident, the left-handed hitter’s line was .247/.326/.395 for an anemic OPS of .721. As a point of comparison, light-hitting former Cardinals outfield reserve So Taguchi has a career .717 OPS. Ankiel’s OPS in his partial 2007 season and in 2008 were .863 and .843, respectively.
So one might conclude that Ankiel had hit the wall even before he hit the wall.
It is fair to note that Ankiel did perform even worse once he returned, ending the season at .231/.285/.387. Though some attribute a loss of playing time to the presence of rookie outfielder Colby Rasmus, the numbers indicate that Ankiel played himself out of full-time duty.
His .672 OPS for the season was actually below that of former teammate Chris Duncan, whose .687 OPS with St. Louis in 2009 bought him a very bumpy ride and eventually a one-month ticket to Pawtucket.
Ankiel, labeled “The Natural” by some due to his considerable athletic ability and his transition from supremely-talented but troubled pitcher to power-hitting outfielder, is the longest-tenured current Cardinals player.
The left-hander signed in 1997, Tony La Russa’s second year with the organization, and made the majors just two years later. Through the ensuing years, Ankiel had a well-publicized meltdown, had to be talked out of quitting, dealt with a challenging position change then several serious injuries and waved off documents that directly connected him with PEDs. Yet the Cardinals and their fans stuck with him for the most part.
Represented by agent Scott Boras, Ankiel has been a free agent twice in the past, but rejoined the Cardinals each time. Perhaps it was partially a return favor for all that had been done for him through the down periods or maybe it was the most comfortable, easiest route to take.
Yet this time feels different. Ankiel is now an established, albeit badly slumping major league outfielder who may have finally worn out his welcome in St. Louis.
La Russa, perhaps Ankiel’s strongest supporter over the years, minimized the chance of the 30-year-old returning to the Cardinals in 2010, reported the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
As I said earlier, no one knows how Ankiel felt in his final at-bat or his view of his impending free agency, for that matter. He made sure of that.
Ankiel reportedly ducked out on waiting reporters at Busch Stadium on Sunday, putting an exclamation point on his Cardinals career. He told those assembled he would answer questions after loading his belongings in his automobile, but instead drove away.
Even to the end, La Russa praised Ankiel, closing a Sunday interview with this assertion.
“There’s nothing about Rick’s game that can’t be fixed.”
That begs the obvious follow on question. “Why wasn’t his game fixed, then?”
I don’t know who should be responsible for “The Natural” turning into “The Noodle” at the plate. Is it beleaguered hitting coach Hal McRae, assistant hitting coach Mike Aldrete or even the boss, La Russa?
Maybe the problem is the player himself. There have been whispers that Ankiel’s difficulties may have been exacerbated by an unwillingness to adapt his batting style to align with coaching suggestions. It is clear his past problems with pitching were not physical.
Whatever the reasons, it has probably reached the point in Ankiel’s career where it would be best for all involved for him to step out of the Cardinals’ protective cocoon and strike out on his own with another organization.
If Ankiel ever returns to Busch Stadium wearing another uniform, just as with former Cardinals like Taguchi, the vast majority of the fans will remember the good times and cheer accordingly.
Best of luck, Rick. We will never stop wondering what could have been.
Last I heard Pirates were considering Rick.
Yep, I recall reading that too. Might be a good gamble for them if they can get a low-price deal with incentives from Boras.
Are the Pirates considering him or was some writer speculating?
A Pittsburgh writer said it back on September 21. The club cannot do so while Ankiel is still under contract for fear of tampering charges. Yet unless the writer is sloppy (which is possible), he left no wiggle room in the following statement.
“…one player on their radar is St. Louis’ Rick Ankiel.”
My assumption in reading that is that a club official told him off the record that they are interested in Ankiel: link
Ankiel’s future is hard to estimate, because his track-record as a hitter is sparse and made uncertain by two injuries.
In 2007, he hit 43 HRs between Memphis and St Louis. That’s big time power, so Jim Edmonds requested a trade. In 2008, Ankiel confirmed this performance, up until a sports hernia suffered in about July. He kept playing which dragged down his OPS from over 900, IIRC.
In 2009, he tripped and ran into a wall just one month into the season.
We do not know if the hernia held him back in 2009 or whether he had a sore right shoulder, as TLR suggested it was. TLR thinks there is nothing wrong with Ankiel’s upside. TLR is often wise, so his disciple JS will trust the master on this one.
The PED issue is non-existant with Rick. He bought HGH via an on-line pharmacy. HGH is a natural hormone in our bodies that helps make muscles strong. Great stuff. Players are authorized to obtain it via a prescription. Just find a doctor and get a prescription, your agent notifies MLB, and you can take all the HGH your heart desires. Hopefully Rick will strength himself the right way, bureaucratically speaking, by using a doctor instead of an Internet pharmacy.
Rick’s lousy 2009 hurts his salary for next year. This is his problem, not ours. He is already rich, so let us not shed tears for Rick. General Managers are going to be interested because Ankiel could rebound and pop 30 HRs, for a low salary. If Holliday wants too much money and if TLR returns, Mo should give some serious thought to trying to retain Ankiel.
Post caught.
Bye bye, Rick.
One reason Mo might not want to re-sign Rick is GMs need to shuffle players so as to give fans new targets for anger. Rick was lousy in 2009. That is his fault. But if Rick is resigned for 2010 and lousy again, then fans will hate Mo and rightly so. GMs have to think about stuff like this, if they want to keep their jobs for a few years.
Every year, it seems like, fans get so mad the Cards can pick him a good player who is dumped. In 2009, it was Lugo. In 2006, Preston Wilson and Jeff Weaver. In 2008, the Nationals rid themselves of Felipe Lopez, who averaged .350 for the Birds.
As value investors, the Cards like to obtain guys coming off down seasons but with other teams. It may be too risky with your own slumpee.
As I said before, if Holliday is Plan A, then Ankiel should be Plan C or D. There is a huge gulf between the two players that could be satisfied by any number of others. Getting a consistent, productive major league starting outfielder should be Plan B, not bringing back Ankiel.
Accepting TLR in saying that Ankiel is fixable also implies that TLR and his gang are not the ones to do it. Otherwise, it would have been done already, unless you think that for some reason TLR held back the important key to Ankiel’s productivity. Too bad WC has gone off to work on TLR’s retirement speech or I bet he could offer up a theory as to why TLR sabotaged Rick’s season by not fixing him…
Brian, you like clarity and clear bright lines, in fact I like clarity too, but the world of baseball can have annoying fuzziness and uncertainties about the future.
I am not saying Ankiel is Plan B. I do think Holliday is Plan A. I also do not think we know why with clarity why Ankiel ad a miserable season, when he was strong for the preceding 1.5 seasons. TLR thinks Rick could be fixable. Thus, I think Rick could be fixable as well. I sure wish him well. He’s a nice guy, but I can understand why he eschews the limelight.
Regrettably, I must disagree TLR cannot fix Rick in future. The line between success and failure can be oddly thin, at times. Maybe Rick has a sore right shoulder. If he rehabs, he could rebound. TLR fixed Felipe. Who saw that coming? Who foresaw the 2009 Joel Pineiro?
I do agree that TLR did a lousy job of fixing Rick during 2009. Rick was awful. Simply awful, at the plate. I hope we can agree about this. TLR did not say Rick was fixable in 2009. If he did, TLR needs his head examined. But TLR is no chump. We shall just have to wait and see what Rick does in 2010, in whatever city he plays.
I can’t think of any hitting issue that got “fixed” in 09. That sort of thing is not Tony’s personal responsibility. He might have been hinting at ineffective coaching by members of his staff. Basically, the whole team had issues, hitting and otherwise, that didn’t get ‘fixed’. Of course, Tony might have been just trying to help Rick by spurring interest, that’s my guess. He probably realizes Rick’s a head case. Too bad we couldn’t trade him to San Diego to even things out.
Gordo at the P-D seems to be prepping us for Holliday bolting. He points out the scarcity of free agent outfielders with the pop to protect Albert. (Brian’s plan B) So maybe plan C or D shouldn’t be scoffed at quite yet.
TLR is very involved with the hitters and even called a special meeting with the position players late in the season to try to help get the bats going. With a staff of just eight coaches, yes I consider the manager accountable, though not as much as the two (count ‘em) hitting coaches. (As part of BAU, TLR chairs the hitters meeting the afternoon of the first game of each series.)
I did not specify free agency as the vehicle for Plan B as there are other ways to acquire talent, too, including trades and players who become free agents after not being tendered a contract for the next season that become available in December. Gordo may or may not be familiar with that avenue, but it is how David Eckstein became a Cardinal, for example…
I don’t understand the lack of interest in Glaus as a Plan C. Is there reason to expect he will not return to form?
Well, we were talking OF instead of 3B, but my sense is that some bridges may have been burned over the injury last fall and how it was handled.
The clincher for me was when TLR ordered Glaus’ bags off the team charter as they were preparing to head out on the final road trip. I doubt it was coincidence that was when they were to celebrate clinching the division.
To me, Glaus is an old 33, having missed major parts of the 2002, 2003, 2007 and now 2009 seasons. In other words, he’s delivered four full seasons in the last eight through his prime years. Guys generally don’t get healthier as they age.
Its hard to find guys who everyone likes and they are affordable. Westie recently said Ludwick would not be on his team. I read a warning by an Internet writer about how Jason Bay will not be a good investment. There was an article claiming Brian Fuentes was no good as closer for the Angels. These are a few examples of a huge amount of negative opinion. Yet each off-season, 30 GMs must develop some hopeful ideas about who to sign or trade for.
I think the most likely scenario is to let Rick walk, don’t even offer arbitration. Schumaker rotates into left field, Lugo takes over at 2nd, bring up Mather and one other AAA OF and that is how the Cards look. I don’t see that as a bad situation. Really, the gaping hole is at 3rd. De Rosa is not the answer, even if he gets wrist surgery. I, personally, like Craig as he is a line-drive machine, but there is apparently reluctance either from the manager or the front office to give him a shot (really, really surprised he didn’t get a call up). Freese may be the answer as he shouldn’t have trouble with a freak accident this offseason. Free agent dollars need to focus on shoring up the bullpen (which can be improved dramatically without spending a fortune, unless the Cards go after a big-time closer), and perhaps a number 4 pitcher (I don’t think Smoltz is the answer, though he might be the closer…)
Chris, thanks for joining in the discussion. There are WAAAAAY too many lurkers out there not posting.
I don’t see Skip as a corner outfield starter on a championship-contending club. I think Lugo is a below-average defender not worthy of a full-time job. I prefer the middle infield arrangement in place now with platoon advantages.
Craig’s third base defense is not considered major league quality, though Freese’s is. The jury is still out on his bat at the MLB level, though. I believe DeRosa could do the job, but may require too much money to return (unless Holliday’s money is available).
I agree with you that another RHP in the pen would be nice, but as you said, it shouldn’t cost a lot to address it. With Smoltz at age 43, I would not want to depend on him in my rotation, but he is an intriguing reliever. If he ego says he wants to continue to try to start, I would wish him luck elsewhere.
With all the money they have tied up in the front three starters, it seems unlikely the Cardinals will spend much more on the rotation. If Holliday does not return, they are going to want to get at least one big bat from the outside, I predict.
If Holliday bolts, and if Ankiel is gone, there will be two job openings in the outfield. One of which has to be capable of hitting #4, unless a 3rd baseman is found to fill that spot. The 4th outfielder has to be able to be a bat off the bench, as we learned this year, which means he won’t be a great defender (or he wouldn’t be a 4th if he was good offensively and defensively). So the 3rd OF candidate would have to not only be a credible 4th spot hitter, but also good enough defensively. Preferrably not someone who strikes out as much as Bay. The Cards would be insane to break up a potentially killer middle infield. Two other thoughts: Colby might end up being a left fielder at some point. Yadi seemed distracted late in the season, less stellar defense, baserunning, frustration at plate. He had a hard time over his dad, and I think a hard time absorbing his emerging role as a big star and key veteran stalwart who will be Tony’s catcher ‘even if he never gets another hit’. (as Tony more or less said a year or two ago)
P.S. Skip’s OPS this season against lefties was .518. That is indescribably bad, yet is better than his career mark of .491, accrued over a large enough sample of 283 plate appearances to enable conclusions to be drawn. bb can talk all he wants about momentum, but IMHO, Skip should never see another LHP in his career except from the bench.
I fully agree that Skip shouldn’t be playing against LHP anywhere on the field, though I suppose that he could platoon in the outfield just as easily as at second base. However, yes, it would be preferable to have a power bat in left field.
BB, while Rasmus certainly might end up in LF one day, why move him from CF? Who would push him out of the way.
I wonder if there will be room for Mather, Freese, and Craig on the roster. You wouldn’t think all three of them, would you?
Who would be your left-handed hitters off the bench in that scenario, Nutlaw?
LH hitting off the bench is why Jay has a decent roster chance and why it is encouraging to see Hamilton trying his hand at the OF. It is also why Thurston may very well keep his 40 man roster spot over the Winter (particularly if TLR remains.)
The reality is, I see little chance that they won’t acquire a LH hitting bench player this Winter.
“Too bad WC has gone off to work on TLR’s retirement speech or I bet he could offer up a theory as to why TLR sabotaged Rick’s season by not fixing him…”
I respect Tony for speaking the truth Brian. He was part of a collective of caretakers that got Rick to where he was. A guy with a chance. His wife too should be mentioned here. All of their personal resources were exhausted in maintaining what you witnessed every day. Being aware of your limitations is a good sign concerning Tony’s mental health.
The negotiations between Tony/Dave and Mo/BD are obviously evolving. Dave’s issues have supposedly been addressed. Now its Tony’s turn to play the bad cop. This has been going on for 2 yrs. Albert is a player in this dance. His brooding is a threatening unknown to Mo/BD. Tony will watch now until the exclusive negotiating window is closed 2 weeks after the series. He will gage the offers to Holiday, DeRosa etc; for signs of a “the new business plan”. This is all exactly as expected. He will be chatting with other baseball folks all the while. If BD whats to change coaches he will fail to meet expectation created in their meetings. Then its on Tony who announces his retirement or not. If BD really intends on keeping them, he will at least need to make sincere offers to these players. This is the game at hand.
all
“….Tony who announces his retirement or not.”
That’s good Westie – nothing like back peddling now to cover all contingencies.
CC, I tend to agree with your bottom line – a LH from somewhere to replace Ankiel.
WC, glad to see you didn’t stray far away after all. It is always more lively here when you are around.
I interpret what you are saying now is that La Russa MIGHT retire, not he WILL retire.
According to him…………… BD may go in a different direction. I told you from the beginning that there was an agreement about resolving their interests…………….. this is what that looks like. I told you that Dave’s unhappiness was a ruse to gain concessions! Go back a read all my posts. Then you will know where you’re at now.
Nut, I don’t think Colby should be moved without good reason any time soon, and I know of no one on the horizon to push him out. But he is, IMHO, not an Edmonds like defensive center fielder, at least not yet, so the search for a 4th spot bat is not to be limited to corner outfielders. As to a bat off the bench/4th outfielder, there is nothing wrong with Craigs stats against either RHP or LHP, ie. if a righty’s splits are good, a lefty off the bench is not essential.
Skip hit the lefty in the NLDS better than Albert, or anyone else. I’m not convinced he is not ‘fixable’ enough to keep his glove in the lineup. Once his arb eligible time is served considerable efforts along those lines will be made. Luddy should see less pine too, which will give him a chance to build moment#m (in case BW has added that word to the filter)
Westy’s one of those lurkers now.
WC, I did what you asked and re-read your posts. Here is exactly your words in a post just the other day:
“Tony will announce his retirement as agreed. Its difficult to say who may coach… I am so relieved in many ways that this era has come to an end. The house will be cleaned. I could see Joe Torrey coming here in 2011 with his whole crew. That would mean a interim coach for many reasons in 2010….. Maybe Oquendo…”
If that isn’t what you meant, perhaps you should have chosen your words more carefully and not been definitive. I saw it, and others saw it, too. That is why you are being questioned.
It is post #7 in the closing time thread. Here is the link.
The idea seemed unlikely then and even more so now.
bb, are you serious about Skip? He had two hits against the lefty Wolf in game one of the LDS and you completely wave off several years of accumulated stats that show he is consistently terrible, horrible, lousy against left-handed pitching? Amazing.
I do not think Skip will ever hit lefties “good”. But considering his good and growing defensive ability, and the desireability of keeping a good DP team in the field together, how ‘good’ would he have to be to be a better all around option than a Lugo or a Thurston or whatever. In other words, how close would his OPS against lefties have to be to that of, say, Lugo or Thurston. Give me your figure on what that minimum OPS would be, and that gives you the amount of needed improvement. Given the kind of individual and organizational effort that went into making him a second baseman in one spring, yes, I’m serious, and no it wouldn’t be any more amazing than what he did this year.
Joe Thurston is not a major league starter and as such is irrelevant in this discussion. Julio Lugo’s career OPS against LHP is .715. While not earth-shattering, that is a whopping 200 points better than Skip.
To reach a .715 career OPS, going forward, Skip would need two or three years at an OPS over .900 against lefties just to bring up his current results. Not going to happen. He doesn’t even do that well against righties. Can’t get there from here.
I accept the fact that a Lugo/Skip platoon with Skip on the busier side of the pairing is better for the team. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think Skip doesn’t try hard and isn’t a fine success story.
Yes that is what I think will happen. My description of the way it is, the dynamics, have been going on for months. I’ve written in depth about this. I think you could probably do better if you tried.
All BD has to do is make embarrassing offers, and they will go public. And Tony retires or moves on.
If I go back and retrieve whats been said, as you have, selectively, and you still don’t get it, what has has been proved? Your standards of this site are your problems. I realize that I’m extending all of you. This is why I take time to stop and tell you whats going to happen it the ball games. Things you all pay little attention to. I hope Tony doesn’t come back. But whether he wants 4 million more dollars with a predictable future is his problem. It may well involve other offers he is considering. He might be going through this act just to influence BD one way or another. You don’t think he is talking with Albert on the side? How ever it resolves…….more platoon egotism if he comes back. I’m tired of it. He had a player in April with Barden. He sat him down because Thurston was pushing Shumaker off of second and back toward the outfield, which pushed Chris farther out. I don’t like him as a coach. Remarkably, I find I have little influence in these matters.
Let me see………… Joel is going to get shelled………he may last 3 innings….oh yeah, Lohse will take it from there……….oops Lohse has the flu……….so it will be Smoltz. What don’t you get.
WC, I just re-posted what you said. Sorry if you don’t like that.
I also just don’t get the Barden thing. Here are the facts for which I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.
In April, he was the NL Rookie of the Month. He had 44 plate appearances with a line of .385/.432/.641. Barden was on top of the world.
The next month, TLR gave Barden even MORE plate appearances, 58. He was NOT buried on the bench. He had more playing time than the month before. Barden’s line was .132/.193/.226. Even Chris Carpenter had a significantly higher OPS this season than Barden did during May, for Pete’s sake. Duncan didn’t have a month that bad until July, when he was traded.
Not surprisingly, Barden was soon back in Triple-A. I am not defending them having kept Duncan so long, but Barden was not the issue.
April was a short month……… he did start platooning Thurston a third, regardless of output…….Barden went flat as did Thurston. They were trying to believe in them selfs and found no support. Tony was propping up Chris at Ludwig’s expense along with Colby. He did not want Barden to be a solution for Mo. He won………he got DeRosa. He lost. DeRosa got hurt. Thurston and Barden never recovered………you recall the rest. Your stats don’t reveal the playing environment…………. only the fossils records of their failure. Tony knew of Albert’s concern about big time players……..maybe that was his reasoning. He was fighting the front office solutions the whole way. And he is still at it.
You are right. They played four more games in May over April. Not enough to change matters significantly.
I understand you believe that TLR sabotaged Thurston’s and Barden’s confidence. You are entitled to your perspective. I happen to be in the camp that the two are marginal major leaguers that became overexposed and the league saw enough of them to learn and exploit their weaknesses.
Brian, I find fault with your logic in two areas. 1. We are talking about platooning Skip, so unless you have two major league 2nd basemen on the roster, the replacement against lefties is not going to be a major league 2nd basement. The relevant comparison is Skip against whatever utility guy you have to platoon. 2. Based on your OPS argument, if Skip had an OPS against lefties, just next year, of .750, and the utility guy had OPS of .750, you would look at platooning because Skips career OPS is way lower. Increasing his career OPS against lefties is irrelevant, the OPS against lefties achievable next year is all that matters. Please don’t take offense, but lets remember this isn’t fantasy baseball.
Do you advocate benching Colby against lefties due to low OPS against them?
bb, there is a difference. I know Colby successfully hit lefties in the minors. His career OPS against lefties there was .826. He is also a rookie trying to adjust to the majors and had two different physical issues that limited him this season.
On the other hand, Skip’s career minor league OPS vs. lefties was .732. The major league equivalent of that is .616. So it could have been predicted that Skip might struggle against lefties in the majors, though not as much as what we have seen.
You are right. The comparison against utility guys and all is silly. I shouldn’t have responded to your question that took me down that path. The shot about fantasy baseball was uncalled for, but I will let it pass since I was going off on a tangent.
The bottom line is that Skip has not demonstrated an ability to hit lefties well in the majors. You would give him more ABs to keep trying to improve. I would not, instead playing a more proven hitter at second base against LHP. Let’s leave it at that.
Albert is over exposed right now too Brian. I’m guessing you could find a bunch of statistics that reinforce that assumption. I hope you do see the problem. The best thing that happened to him in the playoffs were the walks, that disguised the real issues. He is hurting, and that threatens Mo/BD more than anything. That and his very close relationship to Tony.
I like these. Check the whole threads…….
WestCoastbirdWatcher says:
September 29th, 2009 at 4:20 am
What we see, and what is true are two different things…………. Tony will coach next year, with Dave. Where still depends on the direction of management. There is only one scenario that brings Holiday back now. That would be the offer I stated…6/100 large. The Cardinals will pay that if there is an extenuating circumstance… WS MVP , maybe difficulty with Albert,( thats elbow surgery after the season, delaying an appearance until June).
I think a lot depends on these playoffs. Tony and Dave are acutely aware of their situation, and in many ways have been preparing for all eventualities. I really doubt that a WS win pushes them into retirement. The web thats strongest and hardest to see is really the most obvious. BD’s business plan is still in place. What we would like to see as change may be what I projected last year, Holiday being a good excuse to sign a player that can’t be resigned. I see change myself. Cardinal Village is still his target but he needs to be able to bring his piggy bank on shore to do that. Bad Barrack.
WestCoastbirdWatcher says:
September 29th, 2009 at 11:25 am
They are. TBS interview………..where will you be next year Tony………….” wherever Dave Duncan is”
These guys are consummate professionals. Dave Duncan doesn’t whine to the press to make himself feel better. Tony/Dave opened up an instability that threatens a different view of management activities. Its a Mexican standoff and has been for months. Tony is the only one that needs to maintain saleability. And he is. Any contact offer from the Cardinals or another team will reflect a very health position and salary for DD. Do you see that maintaining the threat or possibility of a split up is just being sure that your trigger man has that wild look in his eye. The one that says ” I might shoot first”………………..while Tony is just signing autographs.
WestCoastbirdWatcher says:
August 30th, 2009 at 11:53 am
The real point of interest here has nothing to do with Chris. Tony and Dave are sophisticated guys. They will continue to coach together. It is likely that this dialog is a bit contrived and represents a struggle going on between Management and Coaches. It has always been there. Neither Mo or Dave had to say much about this situation period. It could be Tony/Dave reminding the league that they are free agents. Who knows. Just a point Jumbo, when was Chris’s appointment made with the surgeon? Doesn’t look like there was much time for that the way things went down. Dave anticipating trouble, maybe trying to get Chris on the 60 day instead of demoted? Trying to maintain control. A publicly announced appointment with a surgeon would have also killed what little positives Chris might have had in a trade. Dave maintaining control? These guys were trying to keep Chris under their control as they had for years. Mo broke it up, as an after thought really, out with the garbage. Boston has made another move this week concerning a 1st baseman. Chris didn’t look good enough to even trade or set aside till spring.
Is this one ever good…….
WestCoastbirdWatcher says:
August 30th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
That would be a wrong reading CC. The press and fans focused on Albert’s slump was just creating problems. These guys are not above running a little distraction to take Albert out of the center ring. It’s also a convenient way to air some of their grievances that I believe I have tried to point out here and on other blogs pre-season. I have contended all along the Tony and Dave would be leaving after this year. The radical change in direction by the Cardinals has opened up some options that one would assume changed things some how. I contended in March that there was an agreement with Dave that Chris would be with the team. I believe Dave setting up an appointment in Huston for Chris shows that he was aware that Chris running out of time. These speculations are in the thread. Dave’s public displays and statements don’t make any sense unless he feels they accomplish something. In my mind the only thing that is really happening is Dave is getting all the attention being the lead story. To me, thats more in character, as it seems to be working. His raise this year puts him up there with most managers. It is highly unlikely that Tony and Dave ever split up. Watch Tony’s lead on this story.
On the lighter side. We don’t want to be the division winner with the worst record. Home field is huge in the first round especially. Giants and Rockie were raking today.
Go back read threads………….. take a look around………. yep were here…………… Yep, Tony may opt out if he is treated like 2008 preseason…………… he is waiting to see what they will be doing.
Not only is Westie a skilled pop psychologist – of patients he only reads about and sees on TV – he’s also an accomplished tap dancer. A true renaissance man!
With all due respect, WC, and I really do mean this, you say a lot, worded in such a way that it could be interpreted very broadly, so much that at some point just about any possible outcome may have either been mentioned or hinted at.
I spend less time trying to consume the details of the journey because those specifics most likely will never come to light, trying instead to focus on the end result.
For example, TLR will retire. TLR will come back. TLR will retire and then come back. They are all in there somewhere, I imagine.
Brian, what seems nebulous to you, considering a number of diplomatic issues, surprises me. Tony is in the game……….not the statistic………….BD is in the game……….the game of public appearances………with a profit margin. What either of them will do is beyond prediction. Anyone, that felt so inclined would see that all of the issues surrounding Dave, as mentioned above, have come to pass. He now awaits Tony’s decision, which won’t come till after the exclusive negotiant period is over. I have said that ten different ways above……………….. a month ago. You’re tell me you don’t see that now, even with recent press releases. Albert is negotiating through Tony’s posture now too. You don’t think BD knows that? There are allot of people that come here to read that.
You have a way of saying things that could be interpreted many ways? Ya think………. Think of what I could say.
For some that are reading…………………….. The term retirement, is now the excepted description of the variables deciding the evolution of Tony’s career. Not “I quit” or “you’re fired” or all the other possibilities that befall coaches…………
Had the organization and the press continued to dog Dave, as they were, it would have already been decided. They backed off because the competition fell away (Cubs, Brewers) to reveal a profitable playoff team. This is all history now. Dave’s beef with Luhnow is supposedly resolved……….but won’t be acted upon I think till this confrontation is over. A tell……… Mo couldn’t get Albert to meet the press at his locker clean out…………. give that some thought. I would just be reading minds. Jumbo…….he was in a hurry. Right………
The conscientious Albert wouldn’t want his teammates to:
1) think he s angry with them
2) anyone to think he is down on himself
3) maybe that he was just being dismissive of Mo
4) or what, he isn’t pleased and he doesn’t want to talk about it
Lets see, he stands to make 16 million giving away to 25 million. Everyone calling him the greatest in baseball………his agents would have helped create those MLB adds……….. lets see, oh yea, he wants to win, and maybe he thinks someone is going to get in the way of that. I wonder?
Could that be part of his problem right now. Inner conflict. Yikes it happens to everyone big guy. Get your head right.
I am happy Dave Duncan is willing to re-sign, if TLR will. We need DD. I had doubts about his morale.
I agree with Westie TLR is sitting on the fence, to add pressure on ownership and Mo. Dave and Tony are free agents. They have earned their freedom and may string the Cards along for a while. It could be a wild off-season. It cannot be a lot of fun to be Mo this Fall.
Tony wants something or things and if he gets it he will be back, its that simple. We know one of the things because he told us, Dave has to get whatever it is he wants in order to return, if he doesn’t get it, Tony won’t return either, since he has said he will be where Dave is. If the org wants Tony they have to make Dave happy. That in my opinion is why Dave has got happy recently, and its a sign that the org does want Tony to stay. Tony must also want something else, or he wouldn’t be playing coy. What that is and if he will get it are unknowns.
Albert may have been as disappointed at the team’s game 3 performance as Tony, and may have figured if he doesn’t have anything good to say, why say anything. Very sensible unless you’re a media guy looking for copy.
Ankiel believed that there was nothing to be lost by burning bridges with St. Louis sports media, which means he’s sure he won’t be back.
It is one thing to bail out Saturday night when the sting of the defeat was greatest. It is another to still avoid it the next day, even after the GM asked Albert to speak with the press. As the leader of the team, it is part of his job to address the media, even though he obviously loathes it.
Good point Brian. Some ESPN guy named Deportes says Albert told him he’s in no hurry to re-up with St. Louis. Albert blows off Mo. Hmmmm.
Billy Wagner’s agent says Billy isn’t retiring and Boston isn’t picking up his option. He wants to play for a contender and wants to be a closer. He kicked butt late in season for Boston. Smoltz says he wants to play another year in St. Louis. That would be Awesome.
Is there any good reason the Cards wouldn’t be interested in Rudy Jaramillo, the DD of hitting coaches, whose contract expires.
I saw a Chicago article today urging the new Cubs ownership to overpay to get Jaramillo if necessary. I have heard mixed reviews about him. Players love him. His Rangers clubs have the reputation for being all-or-nothing hackers, among league leaders in both longballs and strikeouts, but unable to consistently move runners over or take walks.
I know him BB…………..Its Joey Deportes………..from down south somewhere.
Pujols, Ankiel, Mark McGwire do not like gabbing to reporters, especially after a disappointing playoff. I like guys who do not enjoy babbling to the press corps. Albert would much rather chase 96 mph pitches. Good for him.
Its TLR’s job to entertain the press and give them quotes with which to write stories, to lessen this burden on our athletes, so they can just focus on baseball. IIRC, TLR has said about 70 percent of his time is spent on media relations, a much higher percentage than a few decades ago.
Albert’s agent is Beverly Hills Sports Council. These pirates willl want to break the bank for Pujols, reducing DeWitt to tears, whether Albert goes or stays. They have coached Albert to say, its not just about the money but Albert wants to win. This makes fans love Albert even more, because it sounds noble and they want the Cards to win too. Lots of free agents use these standard talking points. Maybe the Union gives them to players.
Jumbo, I can tell you from personal experience that there is no way TLR or any manager spends 70 percent of their time with media-related duties. Not even 30 percent.
It is disappointing to see defense of multi-million dollar athletes for boorish behavior. Demands can be heavy if the player does not manage them properly, but refusing to speak to the press at all is simply inexcusable. Whether you believe it or not, it is part of a player’s responsibilities. Sugar-coat it all you want, but that is the way it is.
TLR once was quoted saying something about how his time is spent had reversed over the decades from 75 percent managing the ballclub on the field to 25 percent. What now occupies 75 percent of his time may be a lot more than media, so I probably misrecalled what he said.
People differ. For this reason, you and I are not going to agree about the onus to be interviewed. With the final loss, the season is over. Finis. Does Albert need to express some obligatory sadness to reporters? I don’t think so. He has been a center of attention and public scrutiny from February to October, its time for Albert to have a little personal time, before hoopla surrounding the MVP award, if he gets it or if he does not get it.
Pujols gets paid to play baseball. Just because a guy is a civic figure does not mean he cannot have a private side or the press is entitled to an interview at all times.
Jumbo, you misrepresent my position as extreme in an attempt to defend yours. I have never said an athlete has to provide “an interview at all times”.
Pujols chose not to speak after the game three loss. OK. The next day as players cleaned out their belongings, the clubhouse is specifically opened to the media. Why is that? Because that is when players, coaches and writers do post-mortems on the season. Most players were gracious with their time. Pujols and Ankiel were not.
Pujols was reportedly asked by multiple individuals, including the team’s general manager, to talk and he refused again. That can only make him look bad, which it did.
He has the entire winter for personal time. The team leader needs to be a leader.
Ankiel’s error was not in refraining from talking to the media but in lying to them telling he’d return from his car and talk to them after he put his stuff in the car. No excuse for that. I lost a lot of respect for Ankiel the person when I heard that.
CC, I guess it was Ankiel’s way of slamming the door on the way out. He will land on his feet elsewhere.
Ankiel told Joe Strauss he would come back. Maybe he changed his mind. The season is over. What’s Rick suppposed to say, I am sorry that I slumped this year and struck out in both my WS appearances? Ok, I just said it for him. Does that make everyone feel better?
Yes, Rick went back on his word, but maybe Strauss is a pest wanting to suck some final words from a player. I lost respect for Strauss writing about Ankiel not coming back. This seems petty and self-infatuated.
Joe Strauss is not the only writer who commented on what happened. To spin it around so that he is the problem is amazing, even coming from you.
I can’t say much about respect for Strauss as I never really had any – but that is not to say that I disrespect him either.
Ankiel has every right to change his mind. Common courtesy says you come back and tell those waiting for you that you have changed your mind.
We do not know why Pujols preferred his privacy. I give him the benefit of the doubt. With me, he has earned it.
Albert seems a sincere guy. If he wants to be quiet and nurse disappointments and frustrations, he has earned the right to be, IMO.
English is not the first language for Pujols. When the storyline is happy, its easy to express happiness in any language.
However, when the topic is more difficult, then it can be a lot harder to find exactly the right words and nuances. There was second guessing about some things Albert said at a press conference after Howard won an MVP a few years back, even though Albert was fundamentally just intending to be gracious.
An open club house is fine, because many may be willing to talk freely. But it is not open season for reporters on all the human beings within it, IMO. Players still have the right to decline comment. They are human beings and the preference of some individuals for privacy deserves to be respected. This is just my opinion, of course. Others can differ.
Bring back George Hendrick as media relations coach. A player can opt out of the ‘responsibility’ in a professional manner without looking like an ass.
Albert’s English is impeccable. The Howard interview was in his native language, Spanish, done with a Dominican reporter. Quit grasping at straws. I agree he was not required to speak to the press, but he looks bad in not doing so in this instance.
Regarding Ankiel not fulfilling his promise to return to face interrogation, there are issues of context and proportionality.
Rick has been much written about during his baseball days. If he tends now to be guarded, this is understandable.
Another context is the end of a lousy season for Ankiel. He hoped to have a big season, TLR was rooting for Rick to enjoy a big free agent contract this winter, but the season was hindered by an injury and turned out to be a fizzle. Its not a cheerful topic.
A 3rd context is reporters begging for some final word on the disappointing playoff ending and Rick’s lousy season.
It would have been better for Ankiel to say he was sorry how things had turned out and preferred not to comment, instead of telling reporters he would come back to try to answer unanswerable questions. Once he reached the fresh air and freedom of the parking lot, the season over and on his own time, its easy to understand why Ankiel just kept right on going.
The relevance to the Howard press conference in the Dominican is that it was a disappointing context of missing an MVP award. Even though he was gracious and spoke in Spanish, there were still some sour grapes and gripes afterwards from sports columnists. This could have impressed on Albert that its good not to say anything, because it will be over-interpreted, as implied by over-interpretation of his silence.
Albert is a monster celebrity, so his every behavior runs risk of being over-analyzed. If he says something, it can be criticized. If he says nothing, he runs risk of being said to be boorish.
Albert seems to be doing a smart thing, it seems to me. The season is now over, he has no comments to add. If the Cards announce to the press they want to make Albert a lifetime deal, he just directs Mo to his agent. Its time for Albert to take some time off from work.
Jumbo – you miss my point. I don’t care that Ankiel didn’t talk to reporters. I object to him basically lying to them. maybe you can excuse that, I can’t.
Carioca, my point was one of proportionality to the gravity of the offense. I see the reporters as pests asking ghoulish questions. IMO, as I have suggested, Ankiel should have told them, no comment. This would have been honest. I understand your objection to his lie, which I do not approve of, but I consider the offense still to be trivial.
Everyone is ignoring the fact that Ankiel is one of the best outfielders in the game. His hitting needs work, but suffice to say that Ankiel would not have lost a game in post season by dropping a fly ball on an error just because he “got lost in the white towels the fans were waving”, or whatever Holiday’s excuse was.
Welcome to the site, jrvis. Feel free to comment often.
Regarding Ankiel, what do you consider when calling him one of the best outfielders in the game? Defensive metrics/reports I have seen acknowledge his plus arm, but overall consider him below average as a centerfielder. He may be best suited for right field.
Holliday’s error was extremely painful, but I would not let one play guide me on who to sign and who not to sign.
I not quite sure what you mean, I am referring to all the incredible throws he has made from centerfield.
Metrics, schmetrics. A fly ball to Ankiel with a runner on third is one of those things that has few equals in sports. That two throw game among the most astonishing feats I have ever seen or heard of. Even the routine throws to second or third to disuade the current and future runners are things that alone can make a game worth watching and remembering. This makes him one of the best outfielders in the game. Hope to see him on highlight shows in furure. Does a designated hitter have to hit for a pitcher, or can the DH hit for a posision player?
There are a number of elements to consider in outfield play in addition to throwing arm, such as range, jumps, routes and of course, errors. In terms of defensive metrics, there are many, though they are often a source of debate among baseball watchers. They include such measures as Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR), likely the most often referenced, Probabilistic Model of Range, Runs Above Average and the plus/minus system.
As a point of comparison, using UZR/150, runs above/below average over 150 games, in centerfield this season, Ankiel was significantly below average at -7.1 while Rasmus was 10.7.
I agree with BB. While baseball is one of the more statistic oriented sports, the outfielder’s aren’t, as much. The fact is, 99% of outfielders can catch 99% of pop flys, and 99% of what they see is pop flys. A strong arm, therefore, is one of the best attributes an outfielder can have. That is where you can get the unexpected out. And also, BB is right. When you’re sitting on your couch watching a Baseball game, you don’t just sit there, crunching numbers, you live for those moments like Ankiel’s 2 throw game. That evidence may be primarily anecdotal, but that makes him a great outfielder in my book.
No reason not to relish the great plays made and I wish Ankiel well. But let’s say he signs in Pittsburgh, as bb noted is possible way up top of this discussion. Even if he was to become a starter for the Pirates, it is highly unlikely Ankiel would push aside Andrew McCutchen in center.
McCutchn would be hard to budge. I kind of like Ankiel in right where he would reduce runners advancing first to third in a way few right fielders can, in addition to the other things an outfield arm can do to reduce runs by opposition. I know we have discussed Rasmus as compared to Schumaker, and now compared to Ankiel. I don’t doubt the metrics, but what sticks are some rather ugly looking plays going back on balls. It will be intersting to see what kind of deal Boris can pull out of a hat for him. Also, somewhere in my memory I think Ankiel has flubbed a catch or two more routine than Holliday’s.
Ankiel plays right for the Buccos and he guns out Yadi trying to stretch a single into a triple ( ; > )
Seriously, Ankiel is a right fielder on many teams and a center fielder on a few but only as a stopgap.
I don’t know if he improved 2009 but in 2008 Ankiel’s routes were terrible.
From right field Ankiel could throw out Yadi at first, trying to stretch a single into a single.
How does Sabathia get everybody to chase and wiff those chin high ones?
Jumbo, since it has been established that you are in favor of athletes acting as the please, would you also defend Manny being in the shower as his team lost game four of the NLCS? Or is it ok to be disrespectful to the media, just not your teammates?
In a fashion I figure you would identify with, Joe Torre said it is just fine with him that Manny leaves the bench once he is taken out of the game. link