Comments on: Holliday isn’t Denkinger or Buckner

By: blingboy

blingboy — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 01:47:03 +0000

Brian, lucky for you the season ended before I destroyed your arguement Tonight, I think Joe was coming right at Albert no matter the situation for two reasons. 1 He sensed that the Cards were not a threat offensively, and 2. It was a psychological boost to his team not being afraid of ‘the best player in MLB”.

By: Nutlaw

Nutlaw — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 23:32:27 +0000

Yeah, I had always thought that Holliday was acquired to upgrade left field.

Anyway, this game is not going well. Very disappointing.

By: Brian Walton

Brian Walton — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 22:31:45 +0000

They didn’t disable Lohse so perhaps they are hoping to use him in later games if they get there. That also made the game four decision to start Carp even easier.

By: WestCoastbirdWatcher

WestCoastbirdWatcher — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 22:23:23 +0000

Its going to be Smoltz……….. Lohse left practice with the Flu yesterday.

By: Brian Walton

Brian Walton — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 22:09:36 +0000

Now let’s look at the Dodgers, specifically.

During the regular season, Pujols had 35 PAs against the Dodgers, all after Holliday joined the team. Pujols was intentionally walked just once.

In the NLDS, Pujols has been intentionally walked three times in just nine PA over the first two games. How do you explain the change in strategy, bb?

My explanation remains that Torre sees that Holliday isn’t hitting as well right now so is willing to take his chances when he didn’t before.

All seven of the LA-STL regular season games came in Holliday’s first 24 games with the Cardinals when he was absolutely blistering the baseball. Here’s the clincher. During those games, Torre had his pitchers issue two intentional walks to Holliday, one more than Albert.

I await your reply.

By: Brian Walton

Brian Walton — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:52:41 +0000

bb, I use stats to support my positions as I have found people respect that more than making emotional comments that can’t be backed up. If you consider that an obsession, so be it. Since this is my blog, I get to do as I please. That means you get more stats.

The point to be made is that Holliday did serve as protection for Albert. Torre isn’t buying it in this NLDS, but the NL as a whole did.

Albert’s IBB before Holliday: 34 in 411 PA = 1 per 12.1 plate appearances
Albert’s IBB since Holliday: 10 in 289 PA = 1 per 28.9 plate appearances

In other words, the rate of Albert’s intentional walks was more than cut in half once Holliday was batting behind him.

By: CariocaCardinal

CariocaCardinal — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:47:22 +0000

Westy, so Torre is part of a conspiracy to keep Albert a star and the face of major league baseball? Yeah, right. Why don’t they just throw the games so Albert can advance in the playoffs?

By: CariocaCardinal

CariocaCardinal — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:43:56 +0000

We obtained Holliday so opponets would pitch to Albert or pay the price. If Holliday hits well behind Albert the trade has accomplished its purpose whether Albert is pitched to or not.

By: blingboy

blingboy — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:29:11 +0000

Brian, do you think Torre is walking Albert because Holliday is having a two day slump? I think the answer to that is no. You are obsessed with stats. If Holliday’s presense does not cause Torre to pitch to Albert, Holliday’s OPS is irrelevant. We did not obtain him to put up a big OPS stat, we obtained him so opponants would pitch to Albert.

By: WestCoastbirdWatcher

WestCoastbirdWatcher — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:23:58 +0000

All true Jumbo……………. It could even be said that MLB owners see and understand BD better than you might think. Maybe they think its in there best interest that Pujols gravitate to a larger market soon. They certainly act like it, I would say. Maybe some of them think that if the jackpot wad ever makes it on shore, some middle America team might just be able to buy pennants like the Yankees. It is a business.

By: JumboShrimp

JumboShrimp — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:15:01 +0000

Albert is represented by the stable of rascally Hollywood types who represented Fuentes. Even if we were to sign Matt Holliday, we cannot be 100 percent sure about the outcome of the Pujols negotiation.
Signing Holliday makes Albert’s return more likely, but it also guards the Cardinals in case of Albert’s departure. It would serve twin purposes. Boras knows this, without me writing this. He has a strong hand. Everything is going to hinge on Holliday. He is in charge of what he does in 2010.
Stan the Man did not have a Hollywood agent with leverage. This offseason could be a roller-coaster ride. A lot is unsettled. The Cards hope TLR and Daddy Dunc will return. But the team has not announced new contracts yet.

By: WestCoastbirdWatcher

WestCoastbirdWatcher — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:54:54 +0000

This is just an incidental observation…………….. Joe Torrey knows Albert is struggling right now. He could challenge Albert and maybe break the Cardinals back. By walking Albert as too dangerous, he is carrying forward the popular advertising and MLB propaganda about Albert being the best player in the game, which he isn’t right now………………………………. This is also the pathway that leads toward Albert moving on toward greener pastures and (smog filled skies) maybe. Not everyone in baseball is ignorant to the benefits of having a player that thinks he can can walk on water……………. even if they see he’s up to his waste right now. He knows Albert will be attracted to his own myth, whom ever holds and protects its essence.

By: Brian Walton

Brian Walton — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:52:49 +0000

Jumbo, thanks for the primer. I didn’t know any of that.

If that is the game plan followed, we can probably say goodbye to Albert. All the money saved won’t help in signing him if the team is not competitive. Having one Pujols and a team of role players is not a championship-caliber offense. He would surely break Bonds’ record for intentional walks before leaving.

By: JumboShrimp

JumboShrimp — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:45:23 +0000

Brian, fall back options can include in house possibilities, Mather (if healthy) and Craig. Mather was a nice prospect and enjoying some success in the majors, before a hamate injury. If he bounces back, it would give a nice lift, “found money.”
In 08, Ryan did not get much chance; he has advanced this year. Schumaker got his first real chance in 08, as with Ludwick and Ankiel. We are trying to homegrow more talent and as a result should give a look at internal options, if they exist.
The team’s business strategy has been spend “for the right player” for some years. We do not like to just spend money. An example was wooing of Brian Fuentes. When Fuentes decided to play in California, we held onto the money for other purposes and contented ourselves with Franklin, Motte, and Perez.
In this economy, cash is king. The Cards are freeing up a lot of budget after this season. Maybe we could find a decent value veteran some other team would like to off-load and who would be a notch above a platoon of Craig and Jay. But if not, so be it. In 2006, we began with Taguchi, Bigby, and J Rod in LF. Allan Craig could be a step up.

By: WestCoastbirdWatcher

WestCoastbirdWatcher — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:38:16 +0000

I think BD knows how much easier life would be without a coaching legend to manage his property.
His personal preferences don’t gravitate toward just any coach.

Ludwick will be getting very specific instructions in this role. Look for him to be taking the ball deeper. This will produce center and right field chances. Its all going to be headed toward Holiday and Rasmus. We will need to score early and often. Look for Lohse in the third, score 3/4 Dodgers.

By: Brian Walton

Brian Walton — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:32:17 +0000

Interesting, bb, but what would you like do to correct this? The trade has been made. Should the Cardinals not re-sign Holliday because he had the audacity to slump in a two-game series after posting an OPS of 1.023 since joining the team?

By: blingboy

blingboy — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:17:03 +0000

Trading the prospects for Holliday was done for the purpose of getting Albert pitched to more often with runners on. So here we are in the postseason and Torre says he will walk Albert even if it means putting the go ahead run on base. So my question is, what was accomplished by trading those prospects? What was not accomplished is what was intended, that is an indisputable fact, since Albert is being walked with abandon.

By: Brian Walton

Brian Walton — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:08:10 +0000

CC, I hear you regarding past Cardinals actions. I was stating my personal expectations, not what I expect the club to do. I know the former, but am unsure of the latter. I do know that if they deliver less as Jumbo seems to be suggesting, I will be writing about how the club’s actions did not meet my expectations.

By: blingboy

blingboy — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:15:32 +0000

westy, do you think Jose would be a wishy washy yes man?

I’m not sure what putting Ludwick at #2 is all about. A contact hitter is more appropriate, if you have one that is.

With Joe Torre saying he will not risk Albert beating him, I might put Albert second where he would get walked less. No point having him in an RBI spot if he will not get chances to swing with RISP.

By: CariocaCardinal

CariocaCardinal — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:14:46 +0000

Westy, you don’t like what we have now but you fear a yes man? Tony is probably as far from a yes man as managers go – i guess some people can’t ever be satisfied.

By: CariocaCardinal

CariocaCardinal — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:13:13 +0000

Brian, your thinking doesn’t jive with the Cardinal’s stated and demonstrated thinking. They have often stated that the money is there “for the right player”. In the past when the player they wanted wasn’t obtained they haven’t necessarily gone for another player to replace that gap.

By: CariocaCardinal

CariocaCardinal — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:12:53 +0000

Brian, your thinking doesn’t jive with the Cardinal’s stated thinking. They have often stated that the money is there “for the right player”. In the past when the player they wanted wasn’t obtained they haven’t necessarily gone for another player to replace that gap.

By: WestCoastbirdWatcher

WestCoastbirdWatcher — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:02:54 +0000

Lets see, we are looking at Tony’s coaching staff, because surely all won’t be back……….. Those are just loving provocations for a guy that just got kicked in the balls. Tony is gone. The attempt at shaping cause and public perception has already started. The wool that you pull over your eyes this early has got to be home spun. In BD’s interview the other day he said,” we have no plans to start CV right now”.

Don’t waste time speculating at this very important time, least you miss what is really happening.
I won’t miss Tony. I won’t miss Rick and I hope Ankiel and Glaus, Greene……… Franklin needs to be a 7th inning man and so on. What you should fear, is a wishy washy yes man hired as a coach.

By: JumboShrimp

JumboShrimp — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 16:46:14 +0000

Next year, the Cards could add Jay as CF backup and Craig or Mather as the 4th OF. Freese could get a shot at 3B; he seems mature enough, and we have tried expensive injured (Glaus) and expensive (morale) in Khalil; we need to give their moola to Holliday. Tyler Greene could be backup 3B as the new Thurston.

In any event, Holliday’s choice for 2010 looms large. We hope he does not suffer any more late afternoon mishaps and the fans give him a standing O before his first at bat.

By: Brian Walton

Brian Walton — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:59:10 +0000

Of course, it is difficult. All these potential moves are difficult.

I am not about to give the organization a free pass to start a marginal major leaguer in left if they cannot sign Holliday. I expect them to have a reasonable Plan B and figure out a way to make it work.

The Cardinals have one cheap OF in Rasmus, they have another arbitration-eligible player under control in Ludwick. They have low-price middle infielders. They need big bats in left and at third base if they can’t re-sign the ones they have.

Albert can’t do it alone for a championship-caliber club and would likely not look favorably on a 2010 lineup with Allen Craig starting in left and David Freese at third base as being the competitive kind of team to re-sign with.

By: JumboShrimp

JumboShrimp — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:47:28 +0000

The difficulty for the Cards is obtaining access to an impact player who merits the money. Among free agents there are Holliday and Bay, then a drop off. Even if you have the moola to invest, there may not be a player worthy of it.
In 2009, the Cards gave up five good prospects to secure Holliday and DeRosa for half seasons. Now they have less trading material. To get a player in his prime, they need to shell out money or prospects or both.
In 2008, the Cards gave playng opportunity to Ankiel and unheralded Ludwick and Schumaker, three non-established OFs. If there are not established MLers who can be obtained this off-season, for an appropriate price, it seems not unimaginable the Cards might give playing time to less established athletes, again. The Holliday signing issue looms large for 2010.

By: Brian Walton

Brian Walton — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:23:25 +0000

I’d have to call them Plan C choices, better as reserves. In between would be signing or trading for an established major leaguer. If the money allocated for Holliday comes available, they can and should do a lot better than Ankiel, Craig or Mather in the 2010 starting lineup.

By: JumboShrimp

JumboShrimp — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:51:46 +0000

Joe Mather hit 31 HRs at AA/AAA in one season. This was prior to hamate and wrist injuries that cost 2009. If he could recapture his prior physical peak, Mather could replace Ludwick or Holliday in terms of HRs. He is not as good as Holliday in terms of high average hitter.

Allan Craig could be an candidate. His defense is less than Holliday’s or Mather’s, but with a good season at Memphis in 09, Craig is for him potentially in the right place at the right time, where he might catch an opportunity.

Another possibility, if Holliday departs, would be re-signing Ankiel for left, in hopes he can strengthen his right shoulder and recover his physical peak.

Nothing beats re-signing Holliday. Ankiel, Craig, Mather are three Plan B choices.

By: Nutlaw

Nutlaw — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:26:50 +0000

Joe Mather? Recovery from injury or no, I don’t think that he could hope to replace Holliday’s contributions …

By: JumboShrimp

JumboShrimp — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:11:05 +0000

The post catcher may have snared one of mine.