Some of us are in the major league clubhouse periodically during the season, while beat writers are among those there every single day. Yet absolutely no one better understands what is going on within a team than its own members.
Problem is they can’t disclose what is really going on behind the scenes or they would be ostracized or perhaps even put out of a job before they knew what hit them. It would be a capital sin to break the silence about the inner workings of the team.
That hasn’t stopped most of us that watch the St. Louis Cardinals from speculating publicly or at least privately about the future of the team’s manager and pitching coach, Tony La Russa and Dave Duncan. Neither is under contract for 2010 and beyond.
A recent Post-Dispatch article went into considerable detail about the new, shiny, improved relationship between La Russa and his boss, general manager John Mozeliak. The unwritten implication is that a continuation of the relationship into the future seems more likely than perhaps previously.
No such articles have been written about Duncan lately, as fully understanding how deep and long-lasting his wounds are over the treatment of his son Chris by the club and its fans as well as other smoldering factors should run into the off-season.
Yet rather than media speculation, one member of that very clubhouse day in and day out during much of 2008 and all of 2009 until late June has offered his opinion.
Former Cardinals pitcher Chris Perez offered his articulate thoughts to FOXSports.com. Traded to Cleveland in the Mark DeRosa deal, the reliever says he would not be surprised if both La Russa and Duncan leave St. Louis for good after the season.
“I had a feeling during spring training that this might be their last go-around, just the way they were interacting,” said Perez. “They seemed to be more happy, excited to be there, like, ‘It’s our last go-around. Let’s have a great year.’ I kind of got that feeling from both of them.
“They’ve been at it a long time. Thirty years is a long time to be away from your family, always on the road. It’s a grind. Always competing. Always expecting to win. Having expectations with your teams. I could see them both leaving, especially if they win (the World Series). I think they’d both like to go out on top.”
Perez also noted the Chris Duncan situation could make it more likely his father decides not to return to St. Louis.
Could Perez be wrong? Of course, he could. On the other hand, he is the most credible source yet to weigh in on the situation publicly. That caught my attention.
What we see, and what is true are two different things…………. Tony will coach next year, with Dave. Where still depends on the direction of management. There is only one scenario that brings Holiday back now. That would be the offer I stated…6/100 large. The Cardinals will pay that if there is an extenuating circumstance… WS MVP , maybe difficulty with Albert,( thats elbow surgery after the season, delaying an appearance until June).
I think a lot depends on these playoffs. Tony and Dave are acutely aware of their situation, and in many ways have been preparing for all eventualities. I really doubt that a WS win pushes them into retirement. The web thats strongest and hardest to see is really the most obvious. BD’s business plan is still in place. What we would like to see as change may be what I projected last year, Holiday being a good excuse to sign a player that can’t be resigned. I see change myself. Cardinal Village is still his target but he needs to be able to bring his piggy bank on shore to do that. Bad Barrack.
The factors that are driving Duncan off have little to nothing to do with La Russa. I am not assuming the two will remain hardwired in 2010.
There have been a few recent cyber-rumors, with no known legitimate source that I know of, to the effect that Dave is being looked at as a Managerial candidate by a team or two. I’ve seen Houston mentioned and I can’t remember the other.
They are. TBS interview………..where will you be next year Tony………….” wherever Dave Duncan is”
These guys are consummate professionals. Dave Duncan doesn’t whine to the press to make himself feel better. Tony/Dave opened up an instability that threatens a different view of management activities. Its a Mexican standoff and has been for months. Tony is the only one that needs to maintain saleability. And he is. Any contact offer from the Cardinals or another team will reflect a very health position and salary for DD. Do you see that maintaining the threat or possibility of a split up is just being sure that your trigger man has that wild look in his eye. The one that says ” I might shoot first”………………..while Tony is just signing autographs.
WC, I heard that comment, too, but I have enough experience with TLR to know that he makes self-depreciating remarks at times that may provide cute soundbites but lack substance.
bb, when the Duncan to Houston rumor came out, an excited friend from there emailed me a link to an article from a local writer asking my opinion. Here is what I replied:
“Duncan could do a great job from a managing perspective, but I believe he would not want the other parts of the job – kissing babies, dealing with media, etc. I don’t know him as well as many, but have talked to him a number of times over the years and have a feel for his personality. He is bluntly honest, which could get him into real trouble as the head man. His comments to the Houston writer seemed to make it clear managing is not on his mind. I would be surprised if he managed anywhere but I wouldn’t be surprised if he landed somewhere other than St. Louis as a pitching coach next year.
“Houston would do well to get a name-brand manager, but I believe the problems with the organization start at the top.”
I don´t think 6/100 will be enough for Holiday. Still witing for you to go on record with what salary number you are using for your payroll reduction prediction Westie……we need that historical record.
Why does Duncan whine to the press then?
Brian, from the account given, I would say Perez is ony a credible source if you trust his ability to interpret actions and analyze them using pop psycology.
Perez’ college major was criminology, so you can draw your own conclusions from that!
Your not giving them credit for the maneuvering that they’ve already done this year Brian. You know who knows how good Dave is. Yep………. You think he want to take his impression of the game somewhere, without pitching ace man. The fiasco with Chris compromised some understanding with Mo. We could just have easily ended up in third place and out of the money after those moves. You think we would be having this conversation if that were true? It would be a foregone conclusion that both of them would be gone.
I dont think 6/100 will do it either. I cant see where Holliday’s contribution has been anything more than Troy’s last year. 14 or 15 a year at best. If we exit early no way. He has struck me as a bopper who adaquetly makes them pitch to Albert, but not really a difference maker. Not $20+M worth of dif. I had been sold but not now.
On the subject of potentially overpaid Boras clients. Suppose the Cards firmly believe Ankiel’s stats are due to lingering wall induced injury (confirmed by Dr. Jumbo and other worthies) and that he’ll be recovered next year. Would offering him $3M represent more or less risk than the offer to Mateo was when it was made. Both have (had) huge talent that may or may not pan out.
Everything is interrelated BB. This organization isn’t going to touch Ankiel without Tony being around. They don’t have to. Tony knows the appearance of his influence on various players. Albert and Rick being the foremost. The 100 mill for Holiday, formally offered, gives him the option of influencing Boras to his preferences. Its probably too late for that now.
It shouldn’t be hard to see that there is a heavy profit motive in all thats happening. If Bill DeWitt can set him self up as the victim here, he may sell that. If all walk, I’ll still watch games. This team has a nice core group of pitchers. Thats really all this team has going anyway.
I would add a very promising middle infield, catcher who can and does change the course of a game behind the plate, and Albert.
Daddy Dunc is a straight shooter and no nonsense, the human opposite to our dear Westie. Gonna miss Dunc.
If somebody, say Glaus or K Greene for example, were to get DL’d then Freese could be on the post season roster. Not saying its good or bad, just that it could happen.
Ludwick is back to an open stance and is of course late on the step in. Thats gong to be useful. I watched the Reds feed and they were quite obsessed with showing Albert in the Dugout. Yikes. He is doing battle with his demons. The turbulence can’t be helping those around him. He is a warrior though. He is aware of the problem, just not the solution………………… Joel got no backing. I feel for him. With Albert doing battle, the team has no leader and it shows. The Freese homer shows how complicated a Craig homer might have been on the bench weaklings. He probably just blew K.Green out.
I’m watching the Dodgers lose again. Colorado might catch them. With this negative energy trend even sucking down players like Carpenter or requiring Wainwright to go 130, you have to wonder where the focus will come from. My prediction of 3/6 to end the season looks about right now after a week. Watching the Reds bat was kind of embarrassing. I’ve been watching for along time and never have I seen problems of this nature in the majors. It is great entertainment though. Dodgers struggling, Phillies struggling and we are guessing whether these guys even want to play……………..Colby 5th…………right.
7 runs represents nothing that our “Murderers Row” cannot easily overcome (DeRosa-Pujols-Holliday-Ludwick). However, ever since it was fully assembled in late July, it has been dysfunctional! In the 25 games played this month, we’ve managed to score over 3 runs on only 11 occasions! We may have sustained two 8 game losing streaks in 2006, but we also scored 781 runs that year! This year, with only 5 games remaining, we’ve scored only 699 and will certainly finish with the worst run production in over 7 years! Blame for the fact that we will not have two 20 game winners is placed squarely upon the shoulders of an offense which is repeatedly stymied by mediocre pitchers! We may be Central Division champs, but we cannot beat the Rockies, we cannot beat the Phillies and we will not beat the Dodgers on their turf. Unless our Murderers Row suddenly and miraculously awakens, we’re not going to the World Series…
Nice capsule 57. Dewit comes out looking good, having cut loose the money needed to give Mo and Tony what they said they needed to win. Whether that money was spent wisely and whether the players bought were used to effect are what he pays Mo and Tony for. One of the P-D guys has said this team is capable of losing to anyone, and the offense’s lack of hitting for effect is getting lots of attention, locally and nationally. Rich guys do not like spending money for nothing.
In my opinion, the onus is clearly on Tony and the players to deliver. There are valid concerns about that, yet the average baseball fan has more worries about Philly and LA. Last night, they ran a poll on MLB Network about which club had the biggest questions coming into the playoffs and the numbers were something like Philly 71%, LA 20% and StL 9%. Of course, we posters here are closer to the local problems.
My feeling is that the wild card will again come into the post-season playing the best ball and is the team most to fear. At this point, I might prefer to see StL finish with the third-best division record and play LA instead of a hot Colorado club. The Cardinals have shown they can win in Dodger Stadium and with Carp and Wainwright being the projected starters there in games one and two, the Cards will put their best foot forward.
Waino went seven innings allowing two runs in his only Dodger Stadium start this season. Carp allowed two runs in eight innings in his 2009 start there. I would take those kinds of outings in the DS and hope the sputtering offense can scratch out three runs somehow against a shaky Dodgers rotation.
Yes. I doubt an offense that has to scratch for 2 or 3 runs is what BD had in mind. Winning absolves all though.
Probably the 71/20/9 vote reflects the geographic breakdown of MLB network viewership, or at least that the coasts are heavily represented and we here in flyover country don’t warrant much attention in the minds of viewers on the coasts.
We will be able to sneak up and dump our bucket of disfunction on their heads on national tv. What would the ESPN east coast American League types make of a .205 utility infielder covered with cobwebs in the DH spot.
On the onus issue. It’s certainly possible that the Cards 1) go nowhere in post season and 2) don’t sign Holliday. That leaves us having Derosa and not having all the top young cost controlled talent that was off-loaded. A debacle shurely, all having been orchesrated by Mo.
Good grief, bb. Of course anything could happen, but you certainly are pessimistic. What I see is that Mo has orchestrated the best chance for the Cardinals to win the World Series in at least the last four years. Isn’t that enough until they actually play the games? We have an entire off-season to worry about next year.
Brian has a good point BB. Try a quart of Ben and Jerry’s and remember what we started the season with………………… Bronson A. tonight who has been pitching well. He always does when the Reds are out of it. The good is……..if you are guessing on Bronson, your a fool. So………maybe we just get back to seeing a pitch hitting a pitch, as opposed to Hals……..swing when the count favors you, what could go wrong?.
Earth to BW and Westy, Hellllloooo. The wheels are off guys.
bb, please go back and check out my article that shows the last time the Cards had a winning record in September was 2004. They are currently 13-13.
Now the Dodgers are really in trouble. They have lost 6 of 8 and have red hot Colorado coming into town. If they are swept, they could lose the division.
Oh, for…! Ludwick’s strike-out with the bases juiced was symbolic of our impotent “Murderers Row” (DeRosa-Pujols-Holliday-Ludwick). In the 26 games played this month, we’ve managed to score over 3 runs on only 11 occasions! Indeed, our dysfunctional offense has repeatedly cheated Carpenter, Wainwright and Smoltz out of crucial wins. Whereas Carp should be going for his 19th win tonight, it is truly sickening that his past two sparkling outings had resulted in no decision! It is now certain that we will finish the regular season with the worst run production since 1997! While it is true that we are the Central Division pennant winners, it is equally true that we cannot beat the Rockies, we cannot beat the Phillies and it is doubtful that we will be able to beat the Dodgers this time on their turf. Aye, if our Murderers Row does not suddenly and miraculously come alive, it is a sure bet that we will not be going to the World Series. Brian’s hope seems to be materializing, that we will begin picking our way through the post season minefield against the Dodgers, assuming that they are not swept by the Rockies.
57, are you aware the Cards are 5-2 against LA this year, including 2-1 there, and that the Dodgers are struggling worse than St. Louis right now? Which team would you rather be?
While this is a new year, be aware the Dodgers have won exactly one playoff round in the last 20 years and that barely counts since it was over the hapless Cubs a couple of years back. Not exactly a post-season dynasty. Under TLR, the Cards are 6-1 in first round series. Which team would you rather be?
bb, to reflect what the people truly believe, I sometimes like to look at those who actually go as far as laying down their money in support of their view. To me that means more than surveys. Cards are currently 17/10 leaders to win the NL while the Dodgers are third at 5/2 behind Philly at 2/1. Money talks.
As an aside, the Yanks are the betting line favorite to win the Series at 9/5. Cards are 4/1.
Last night was important because we saw Tony and Dave make the giant leap from denial to excuse making. Admitedly, bad balls, tarry caps and suspect fingertips are the least of their problems, but its better than everythings fine I love this team. I had been wondering how Tony was going to spin getting shut down by Kip Wells today. Lets hope he doesnt have to.
Brian, while I am well aware of the 3-out-of-4 at home and the 2-out-of-3 at Los Angeles and while I am heartened by your infectious optimism, I am mindful of a dismal September in which 4 or more runs were produced on only 11-out-of-26 occasions! You need not be reminded that the dismal September was AFTER we had barely squeaked by the Dodgers (3 to 2 both games, remember?). I fear that, unless Carp and Waino help their own cause (as Chris did in grand style today), our impotent Murderers Row will do nothing to complement their superb pitching.
57, after posting a piece entitled “Waino, Carp and pray for the tarp”, I doubt I will be charged with spreading infectious optimism. On the other hand, I am not perched on the ledge either. All the playoff teams have legitimate concerns. Play the games and see who is best.
(P.S. You have a great, traditional gravatar. I really like it. For those interested in getting their own, I documented the instructions here.)