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Brian Walton's news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals (TM) and their minor league system

Carpenter approaching Gibson superiority


When evaluating the superlative pitching performances being delivered by St. Louis Cardinals pitcher Chris Carpenter here in 2009, about the only name in team history that compares is Hall of Famer Bob Gibson.

When Carpenter masterfully shut out the Milwaukee Brewers on one hit, winning by a 3-0 margin on Monday afternoon at Miller Park, it was the 34-year-old right-hander’s 11th consecutive victory.

It marks the second-longest winning streak in Carpenter’s career, with his best having been a 13-game run during his Cy Young Award-winning 2005 campaign.

Only one other pitcher in St. Louis history had multiple victory streaks of at least 11 games. Two-time Cy Young Award-winner Gibson assembled two such consecutive win runs – 15 in 1968 and 11 in 1972.

Further, as Carpenter fanned 10 Brewers on Labor Day, it marked just the sixth time since at least 1954 that a Cardinals hurler allowed one or fewer hits and fanned ten or more in a complete game. Carp and Gibby are the only ones to make this list twice.

Complete game, one or fewer hits, ten or more strikeouts, Cardinals, 1954-2009

Team Score Pitcher IP H K
Chris Carpenter 9/7/2009 @MIL W 3-0 SHO9 W 9 1 10
Chris Carpenter 6/14/2005 @TOR W 7-0 SHO9 W 9 1 10
Alan Benes 5/16/1997 @ATL L 0-1 GS-9 9 1 11
Bob Gibson 8/14/1971 @PIT W 11-0 SHO9 W 9 0 10
Bob Gibson 6/17/1970 @SDP W 8-0 SHO9 W 9 1 13
Ernie Broglio 7/15/1960 CHC W 6-0 SHO9 W 9 1 14

In terms of raw numbers of contests of ten or more strikeouts, Gibson has no peer in at least the last 55 years of team history. In fact, no one else is even close.

Ten or more strikeout games, Cardinals, 1954-2009

74 Bob Gibson
13 Steve Carlton
10 Matt Morris, Andy Benes
9 Sam Jones, Jose DeLeon, Chris Carpenter

With his Monday gem, Carpenter broke a three-way tie for the most ten-plus K games by a Cardinal hurler this decade. He had been tied with Matt Morris and the late Darryl Kile with eight.

Ten or more strikeout games, Cardinals, 2000-2009

9 Chris Carpenter
8 Matt Morris, Darryl Kile
6 Rick Ankiel

Further narrowing down to the last five years, Carpenter has eight of the club’s ten-or-more strikeout performances.

Ten or more strikeout games, Cardinals, 2005-2009

8 Chris Carpenter
1 Adam Wainwright
1 Mark Mulder

Thanks to Tom Orf for pulling the data tables shown above.

10 Responses to “Carpenter approaching Gibson superiority”

  1. blingboy says:

    I have noticed Ernie Broglio appearing several times in the historical pitching stats. I had always thought the Cards gave the hapless Cubs a ringer for Brock. Looking up career stats for both players, that is not the case. At the time of the trade Broglio was an established winner while Brock was a youngster who hadn’t done much. Immediatly after the trade Brock took off and Ernie cratered. Other than ‘its the Cubs’, does anyone have any info on what happened with Broglio, explaining the sudden precipitous nosedive, did he get injured or what? Was Brock a highly touted youngster that the Cards wanted enough to trade a winning starter for, or did we just want to dump Broglio for some reason that the Cubs didn’t know about?

  2. Brian Walton says:

    Broglio hurt his elbow in 1965 and tried to come back too soon after surgery.

  3. blingboy says:

    At the time of the trade Brock was a .250-.260 hitter with some speed. Broglio was 18-8 in 1963, having been a 21 game winner previously, and was off to a slow start, 3-5, in ’64 when the trade went down. That doesn’t seem like a reasonable trade unless the Cards knew something the Cubs didn’t. And the Cubs, being the Cubs, failed to recognize it was too good to be true. Broglio finished ’64 at 7-12 and basically that was it for him. It sounds like we scammed ‘em, which is a good and noble thing.

  4. bigchieftootiemontana says:

    I was 9 years old in 1964 when the trade was made, living in St. Louis and when I saw the headline in the PD I exclaimed to my sister “They traded Broglio?! How can they win without Broglio?!”

    Without looking it up I think he won 19 or 20 games the previous season. At that point Brock was sort of looked at as a guy with huge potential but not realizing it. The Cubs were pretty much a station to station team then, but the Cardinals had a bit more of a running game going and let Brock have more freedom on the bases.

    Ernie Broglio was a panel member at the SABR convention in San Francisco 1997 or 1998 and he is a nice man, maybe a little tired of being questioned about the trade. Some of the other panel members
    stated that Broglio had a great arm before he got hurt.

    Carpenter is so incredible, how can he miss 2 seasons and pitch like he is this year, he could be a candidate for both Comeback Player and Cy Young ( you probably already mentioned that Brian).

  5. Brian Walton says:

    Right you are chief! Check out my article from the other day on all the awards candidates.

  6. Axcion says:

    Hey Brian, I didn’t see Carpenter’s brilliance against Milwaukee, but I was there in 2005 when Chris returned to face the Toronto Blue Jays for the first time. I’m sure you recall that the new GM of the Jays; J.P.Riccardi didn’t think an injured Carpenter was worth the qualifying offer ($200,000 I believe) so he cut him lose. What a moron!!! Anyway, thanks to Walt being more intelligent, we got our ace.

    Back to the story: Chris was a very highly prized prospect back then coming up through the Jays system. He was part of a treasure chest of three can’t miss #1 starters who came up together. You may (cough! cough!) recognize the other names; Roy Halliday and Kelvim Escobar. Anyway, Chris was reportedly very hurt by this snub so he was very much looking forward to making a triumphant return and did he ever. The only hit the Jays got off him was a ball about a foot inside the rightfield line. Being one of the few Cardinal fans in attendance, I figured the other fans would get on me for booing the hit, however, Carpenter was well liked in Toronto and they were cheering for a no-hitter too. Riccardi was quite the villain for letting Chris go.

    The best part Brian was the artistry of Carpenter. This game was no fluke. The Blue Jay batters looked so inept I actually began to feel sorry for them. Their swings were feeble at best. You could tell they had no idea what was coming and even when they did the result was embarassing. On this day the baseball gods smiled knowingly and let Chris exact his revenge.

    The more I romantize it in my mind, the greater it gets. I’ve had him up to 15 strikeouts when I’ve retold the experience. Don’t get me wrong, this is no fish tale. I’ve seen no-hitters on TV, but I’ve never, ever seen a better pitched game than that one. The power and movement on each pitch was a pure masterpiece to behold.

    I’m sure Chris would never admit it, but that was ‘in your face’ vindication and I’d lay odds that he celebrated in a big way. I bare witness to this being the greatest game I’ve ever, and may ever, seen pitched.

    p.s. I don’t suppose we could pry Chris’s old buddy; Roy Halliday away from Toronto too?

  7. JumboShrimp says:

    Rate of 10+ K games per Cardinals start:

    Gibson 74 games among 482 starts = 15.35 %
    Rick Ankiel 6 games among 41 starts = 14.63 %
    Andy Benes 10 within 123 starts = 8.1%
    Lefty Carlton 13 amid 172 = 7.6 %
    Chris Carpenter 9 among 120 starts for Cards = 7.5%
    Jose DeLeon 9 among 145 = 6.2%
    Matt Morris 10 among 206 starts = 4.85%

  8. Brian Walton says:

    Good rate stats, Jumbo.

    Axcion, thank you for sharing that great story… I have said it before and I will say it again. It really bothers me when people talk about not wanting to waste Pujols’ prime years but never say the same thing about Carp, who is five years older. This is a special time.

  9. Axcion says:

    There’s no arguing that fact. Hopefully Carp will age like Rachel Welsh (no I don’t mean with awesome boobs). The stature grew and grew. The curves; smooth, sleek and awe inspiring. She could change-up her clothes to pretty much anything and still be radiant. Her outfits may have had 2-seams or 4-seams, we’re not really sure, just that they looked very small coming at you. Of course, the biggest difference between the two would be that Chris’s Bust-out year didn’t come until he was about 25. Actually, I’d rename Carp’s fastball and call it the Rachel pitch; after all it’s fast, leaves you staring, it’s untouchable and most of all you just want to hump it up there.

    Yes I know it’s immature, but I’m stuck in my fantasy world now………….DON’T wake me!!!

  10. blingboy says:

    The difference in popular perception of Carp vs Albert relates to historical perspective. Albert’s numbers, and the reasonable extrapolation of those numbers, puts him equal to the greatest Cards ever, and among the greatest hitters ever. Carp, though the best of those currently in the business, will never put up career stats anywhere close to the best of the best. 74 ten strike out games vs 9 is just one of many examples. Apologists assert that this is because of changes in the game and particularly in the role of the starter. Popular perception, being a function of group psycology, is more readily swayed by results than excuses.

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