The St. Louis Cardinals have canceled their yearly fall instructional league camp for 2009 with future plans to be determined, reports the Post-Dispatch. General Manager John Mozeliak offered up this vague explanation:
“I’m not sure the old model works with what’s going on down there.”
The P-D article partially rationalizes the decision by noting that some members of the organization, including Major League manager Tony La Russa, have questioned assigning players to Instructs after they have competed over a full summer season.
Fair enough, but I don’t see that being the purpose of Instructs. The players primarily on La Russa’s radar screen are Triple-A and perhaps Double-A players. These older, more experienced players are not the Instructs’ target group.
The organization drafted and signed 43 brand new players between mid-June and mid-August, some fresh out of high school. These newbies were dropped onto various rosters from Quad Cities to the Gulf Coast League in the midst of those teams’ seasons. Allowing coaches to work with the new players in the less-formal environment of Instructs before their first winters off as professionals offer advantages that may become evident the next season.
It is true that some of the 2009 draftees also played a full high school or college season before signing. Those players viewed to have reached maximum levels of innings pitched, for example, could still benefit from instruction, conditioning and drills.
A number of players already in the system missed considerable portions of the 2009 summer season due to injuries. Instructs offers them the opportunity to get more innings or at-bats, again in a controlled environment.
Finally, Instructs could provide players ready to graduate from the Latin American academies in the Dominican Republic and Venezuela a vehicle to begin to be oriented into play in the USA.
The P-D article notes the Cardinals’ Jupiter partners, the Florida Marlins, have also canceled their instructional league camp. That leaves the New York Mets as the only spring training club within roughly 100 miles and two hours.
I am in the midst of conducting an informal poll of my Scout.com publisher peers covering other MLB organizations to learn if the Instructs cancellations are widespread. Responses from at least seven Arizona clubs and three Florida Gulf Coast teams indicate their fall programs are continuing as planned. Other than Florida, St. Louis and the Mets, nearby in Port St. Lucie, I am unaware of any cancellations.
For the Cardinals, the geography concern is real.
With the relocation of the Los Angeles Dodgers from Vero Beach to Arizona, the next nearest team to the Cardinals after Florida and New York is Washington. Their home in Viera is 110 miles and 1:55 away from Jupiter. The minor leaguers do not travel that far in the spring, so there is no reason to expect they would in the fall, either.
This is a real problem, one that is much larger than Instructs. With only two teams against whom to compete in the spring (and fall), the Marlins and Mets, one of the three clubs’ minor leaguers have no one to play other than themselves on any given day.
As Major League teams continue to vacate Florida for the greener pastures of Arizona, the problem can only worsen. In contrast with Arizona, where at least a dozen teams are within a reasonable drive from one another in the Phoenix area, Florida clubs remain scattered all over the state. For example, to play the Toronto Blue Jays in Dunedin, the Cardinals would have to take a 208-mile bus ride of four hours and 45 minutes each way. That is totally impractical.
While the Major League Cardinals, Marlins and Mets seem firm in their current locales, they have seen the nearby Dodgers and Orioles depart in the past two years with no prospects of replacements coming in.
In terms of Instructs, despite the valid geographic concerns, the decision to cancel camp feels more financially-motivated than player development-oriented.
About half-way through reading this, I thought, “It’s got to be financially motivated.”
I understand cutting costs in a bad economy. I even understand doing it because there are no nearby competitors. I just don’t think think “avoiding over-working players” is the way to spin it.
Well, they aren’t being cheap overall, as I pointed out in a subscriber-only article at Scout.com on Saturday, where I looked at the bonus levels budgeted and paid out year-to-year. This does seem to be one area cut, however.
Correct me if I am wrong – but I always thought fall instructional camp was about working on drills and skills from an intra squad approach. Not with games against other organizations. Therefore the angle about limited training partners in the area really would not impact fall camp.
I have not heard about the 5 or 6 guys who get assigned to the Arizona fall league this year – is it still in operation?
vegasjim, camp is both drills and afternoon games. Three or four years back, the Cardinals dramatically cut back on the number of players invited and canceled the external games part, just doing the internal stuff for that one fall, as I recall, before restoring full camp the next year. Certainly if enough players are invited, intrasquad games could be held.
The AFL will still go on as planned, though the lower-level Hawaii Winter League will not. There were plans to have the two leagues in AZ this year, but supposedly a one-year notice was not enough time for MLB to get it organized. (eyes roll) Instead, as a partial accommodation, a couple of A-level players will be allowed on AFL rosters this year. Once the Cardinals’ 2009 AFL players have been named, I will share the news. I will also again be attending with camera and voice recorder in hand, as I have done in each of the last six or seven falls.
[...] Walton opines on the loss of the Fall Instructional Leagues.SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: “Monday Link Corral”, url: [...]
Minor league playing days are often very short. This provides the rationale for fall instructional camp. A ML team wants to give extra instruction to new signees to help them step up to full season A ball.
Both the Marlins and Cards are developmentally aggressive, so for both to drop fall instructional ball seems revealing.
I just wanted to call attention to the fact that I received an update this morning about the Mets plans. They are not having Florida instructs, after all, so the three teams in the same area (Cards, Fish, Mets) are the ones of a like mind to cancel.
With rookie ball having 2/3 teams in either the VSL or DSL. It allowed for Florida (Marlins) to come into Roger Dean and essentially split the cost with St. Louis for complete use of Jupiter. I know we fielded at 33 man Roster that reported about 3 weeks ago and the Marlins are guys are using Jupiter when we are on the road and vice versa. Its signficantly less expensive then sending guys to extended and then to short season ball thus the merging of 2 teams and the replacement of one makes perfect sense for Jupiter. I know NYY are having talks of merging Tampa with an affliate to help cut the cost. Not to mention we have 4 new teams from the FWL that all the Instructs will be playing against. Long Live the off-season in the sunshine state!
Welcome to the site, scout.
I am unclear about your post so would appreciate a clarification. Are you talking about what the Marlins are doing, the Cardinals, the Florida Winter League, which has no organization affiliation, or something else?
What the Cardinals told me is that they keep the Jupiter training facility open year-round and have a winter program specifically to supervise rehabbing players until they are cleared to work out on their own along with some guys that already live in the area. The scope is a dozen or fewer players though and games are not being played.
Is what I am saying is that this blog needs to be updated…. When we were talking about moving the AZL Rookie League out of the US to save costs team began thinking that since each club can send 40 guys down to Instructs in FL why not save costs by sending guys that are injured, recently signed, etc. But I am 100% sure that the Cardinals have a team right now in Juputer as well as the fact that the Marlins have also fielded a team to play in the Fall Instructional league. I know there were talks post draft not having one and sending guys down to the VSL but with better safer facilities in the states Management decided to keep Instructional ball going for the guys that needed work or to get their sets in. The mets are in the same boat, they sent 45 guys down here, released 5 and are at the 40 man limit. I think we should all start a new blog in ref to instructs. Because I live 50 percent of the time on the road and luckily its nly 3 hours from my home in CO to Florida where I am forced to do evaluations on our guys (St. Louis) as well as asked my other clubs as a professional curotisy my opinion on a certain guy. But ask any scout and they will tel you that every team that has a ST facility in FL has an Instructional team down here!
scout, I don’t know what to say. The Cardinals announced they canceled their fall instructional league. Here is the Post-Dispatch’s mention of it quoting the team’s general manager. Here is one article about the Mets plans from the NY Daily News. Here is a NY Times article quoting another Mets official who also mentioned the Cards are not fielding a team. I even exchanged emails with a Cardinals official about it again today just to make sure.
The Cards sound like they have scaled back the fall instructional program from the level it has been in recent years.
But they have a year-around facility. Scout reports rehabbers and guys who want added work are taking advantage of the facility.
The disparity seems about numbers, 33 versus 12.
If there were 33 around, they could travel and scrimmage other franchises.
Its confusing.
Maybe there are 12 rehabbers who are formally assigned to Jupiter.
But in a system with 200 more minor leaguers, maybe 10 percent of them want to go work out at Jupiter and have sweethearts in the area.
Up in St Louis, management is focused intently on the playoffs. TLR personally directed the hitters today en route to 13 runs.
Tony wisely waited until Kip Wells was on the mound before taking charge. You do not last as long as Tony has at a major league level, without knowing when to take personal command.
Up in St Louis, with other things on their mind, the head count as to who is working out around Jupiter, on a voluntary basis, maybe some people do not have that number handy at their fingertips, when Brian calls.
A dozen or 33, whatever, what’s the difference?
Jumbo, you try too hard to neatly tie up every loose end. I don’t want to alienate stlouisscout, a brand new poster here, but the weight of evidence says the Cardinals canceled instructional league. They do have a rehab camp going on for about a dozen players. That is very different from a full squad of 33 players playing instructional league games.
You don’t know to whom I spoke, but be aware the Cardinals have at least one minor league executive working full time out of Jupiter. I have interacted with the organization for a long time and know who to ask what. To suggest otherwise from your perch is insulting.
Perhaps scout can share the names of some of the 33 Cardinals players that are currently playing and being scouted in instructional league games in Florida. That way we might better be able to get to the bottom of the confusion.
Brian, I too did not wish to alienate scout, so tried to find an explanation to reconcile, rather than refute, differing understandings, within a Rashomon world. As you say, I do not know to whom you spoke and proposed a source in St Louis. Within any geographically spread business, its possible for not everyone to know details at any given moment. If I had understood you had talked to a source in Jupiter, I would not have assumed one geographically removed.
Nor do I have to report every detail behind everything I write. My credibility is important and I don’t post unless I know what I am talking about. If you want to question it, bring more to the table than heresay.
While I tried to better understand the report of “stlscout”, I shall assuage the problem as you perceive it.
Jumbo/BW/Scout. I am again having trouble tracking the exact point(s) of contention here. Could it be laid out for those possessed of the meanest understanding.
bb, it has been widely reported that the Cardinals canceled their fall instructional league, including by me. stlouisscout does not agree. Jumbo stepped in to suggest my information may be inaccurate. I took exception.
stlouisscout said:
OK, I did.
A scout from another NL Central club who lives in the St. Lucie-West Palm Beach corridor says he is unhappy that the Marlins were the only ones in his area holding Instructs. Even the Marlins were basically just having workouts with no games to scout since the other teams (Mets and Cardinals) weren’t having Instructs. I did not identify the team that employs this scout to protect his identity.
I have burned enough time checking and rechecking what I already knew. Unless someone has any facts that refute this, it is time to move on.
The Cards cancelled their fall instruction session for June signees. Mo is not sure that the fall instruction session “works” for the Cards any longer given “what’s going on down there” (in Florida). BW wrote a column, above, expressing his opinion that this explanation translates to the Cards cancelling fall instructs to save money, to the detriment of player development.
Maybe he is correct, but I am less opinionated on this point and am unsure Mo was aiming to mislead. If their “old” model seems questionable, they may be in search of a new one. One possible new model is to consider the greater number of players training at Jupiter during April to mid June, called Extended Spring Training, as replacement for the fall instruct camp. However, this may not be what the Cards are thinking. It will be up to the Cards to disclose a revised approach to player development, if they decide upon one.
This is Brian’s blog. He does very fine work, indicative of hard work. JS is grating on him and is going to give him a break.
I just saw on the ESPN ticker during the NFL postgame show that Strasburg went two scoreless innings on three hits in his first pro appearance in Instructs today. Has to be the first time ever an instructional league outing made ESPN.
BTW, I will return to this discussion when the Cardinals restore instructs next year. Just a prediction…
Its the east coast thing Brian. Espn doesn’t even talk about Greinke if they can help it.