By Ian Walton
The Cardinals were rightfully pleased to add new cleanup hitter Matt Holliday to their roster in their quest to reach the playoffs and the World Series here in 2009. Holliday provides a significant upgrade in left field and has helped to spark St. Louis’ offense ever since his arrival. I do have one concern, however. Holliday does not belong hitting behind Albert Pujols in the clean up spot.
Why would I say something crazy like that? Wasn’t the entire purpose of acquiring Holliday to provide Pujols with some protection in the batting lineup? Now I’ll readily grant you that I may, in fact, be crazy. However, I’m still fairly sure that Holliday’s suitability for the cleanup role rests solely upon his reputation from playing in Coors Field. Let’s turn to the cold, hard data:
| Holliday career | PA | AB | H | BB | K | 2B | 3B | HR | SB | CS | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS |
| Total | 3405 | 3031 | 964 | 303 | 569 | 217 | 24 | 140 | 79 | 21 | 0.318 | 0.388 | 0.544 | 0.932 |
| At Coors Field | 1517 | 1353 | 483 | 129 | 230 | 106 | 16 | 84 | 28 | 9 | 0.357 | 0.423 | 0.645 | 1.068 |
| Outside Colorado | 1888 | 1678 | 481 | 174 | 339 | 111 | 8 | 56 | 51 | 12 | 0.287 | 0.360 | 0.462 | 0.822 |
The differences here are clear. Holliday is a quality batter either way, but his batting average and particularly his slugging percentage undoubtedly benefited from being a mile high. In a standard full season of plate appearances away from Coors Field, he could be considered fortunate to average any better than 20 home runs.
Uh oh? Well, maybe not. Despite not mashing like a true cleanup hitter, Holliday is by far the Cardinals’ second best hitter when ranked by OPS this season. He is flashing solid doubles power, has seen a dramatic improvement in his plate discipline for the second straight season, and has even chosen to make himself an increased danger on the base paths when not playing in the land of the home run and leads the Cardinals in steals. Despite only ranking as the 51st best player in the major leagues in slugging percentage, he does rank 16th in on-base percentage. That sounds a heck of a lot like a top of the order hitter to me. Sure, he probably has too much power to burn hitting leadoff, but batting second in the order may not be a bad fit at all. So who hits behind Pujols? Let’s look at this season’s top three options:
| 2009 | PA | AB | H | BB | K | 2B | 3B | HR | SB | CS | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS |
| Matt Holliday | 437 | 375 | 116 | 52 | 64 | 29 | 1 | 12 | 13 | 4 | 0.309 | 0.400 | 0.488 | 0.888 |
| Mark DeRosa | 385 | 343 | 89 | 33 | 82 | 14 | 0 | 20 | 1 | 1 | 0.259 | 0.328 | 0.475 | 0.803 |
| Ryan Ludwick | 337 | 302 | 81 | 28 | 62 | 11 | 1 | 17 | 4 | 0 | 0.268 | 0.333 | 0.480 | 0.813 |
Here we see very similar slugging percentages among Holliday, Mark DeRosa, and Ryan Ludwick. However, it is clear that the latter two have filled their numbers with round trippers while the former is all doubles. DeRosa and Ludwick apparently don’t reach base terribly often. Their strengths lie in driving in runners, not in reaching base to be driven in by others.
Ludwick has been fairly secure in the number five spot of late, but DeRosa has been bounced all around the order since returning from injury, primarily landing at numbers two or seven in the lineup. Really? You either want to hope that your .328 OBP hitter gets on base for Pujols and the heart of the order or you want to bury your team’s fourth highest OPS way down in the seventh hole?
Well what about the rest of the team? Of the regulars, Skip Schumaker has an OPS of .757, Colby Rasmus .737, Yadier Molina .718, Rick Ankiel .702 and everyone else is even lower. Of those, Rasmus and Ankiel have slugging percentages over .400 (.431 and .411 respectively), but despite their ability to mix up the middle of the lineup with a left-handed hitter, their numbers don’t exactly cry out heart of the order. What about on-base percentage? Well, only Schumaker at .360 and Molina at .350 can even top Ludwick’s numbers in this group, and Molina is too slow to bat second. Sure, Julio Lugo is playing well over his head in limited action this season, but his career numbers say that he should come back to earth soon.
So why not go with Schumaker-Holliday-Pujols-DeRosa-Ludwick instead at the top of the lineup? Your five best hitters (by OPS) get the most at-bats and everyone is slotted into a role that suits him. Your centerfielder for the day, whether Ankiel or Rasmus, can provide a second lefty in the lineup at number six and Molina and the shortstop du jour can round out the bottom of the order. If you don’t trust DeRosa’s power, having seen it only emerge over the past couple of seasons, put him fifth and let the career .506 slugging Ludwick bat cleanup. On the other hand, DeRosa has already hit seven home runs in 65 AB for the Cardinals.
So to summarize, Holliday is a great ballplayer, but despite his reputation as a power hitter, his skill set outside of Coors Field profiles him as a much better hitter in front of Pujols than behind him. Batting Holliday second would have the added benefit of placing DeRosa in the heart of the lineup where he belongs and bumping the team’s lesser hitters lower in the order where they see fewer at bats.
All statistics above are accurate through 7/31/2009. Thanks to Baseball Reference for statistical support.
TLR has said many times that he wants “danger” in the two hole. Certainly Holliday qualifies, but what about the notion of protection for Albert? Is your number four hitter, DeRosa, a big enough threat to keep Albert’s intentional walks down?
Is this a comedy piece or what?
Holliday is 51st best in the game by slugging percentage this season? If for 2009, he could be lowered by an Oakland park effect.
DeRosa has improved power this year, but this is an abberation (presumably based on continuing to gain understanding as a hitter). DeRosa in the cleanup hole seems questionable. His power may be up, but he is hitting for a low average with the Cards with plenty of Ks, the price of his trying to power up, maybe too much so for his physical abilities.
Luddy seems suited in the 5th or 6th hole. He is very strong, but has holes in his swing.
Probably most players hit better at home than on the road, not just Holliday at Coors.
I really like Holliday where TLR has him, protecting Pujols. They seem a great pairing.
To make a case Holliday should not bat cleanup, you could consider comparing his road OPS to the road OPS of other cleanup hitters (road OPS to road OPS, where does Holliday rank?) This would remove any Coors or home field distortions from the data.
If Rick Ankiel were to heat up and grow into a cleanup hitter or if Ludwick got hot, then I suppose they could protect Pujols and enable Holliday to bump up to the 2 hole. This is not a crazy idea, under all circumstances, because Holliday is very good at getting on base.
Heh heh. I’ll grant you that I have the most impeccable of timing, what with Holliday’s two home runs on the night. Still, you have to give me that both of them just barely cleared the fence, not that I’m complaining.
I wouldn’t say that Holliday’s slugging percentage has been particularly harmed by hitting in Oakland given that he has topped his career rate outside of Colorado. In fact, his SLG at home is .527 on the season and .450 away. With that said, Busch is not exactly a slugger’s haven itself.
Some Cardinals career splits:
Pujols home: .632 SLG and 1.092 OPS
Pujols away: .624 SLG and 1.041 OPS
Ludwick home: .512 SLG and .864 OPS
Ludwick away: .501 SLG and .835 OPS
Ankiel home: .426 SLG and .724 OPS
Ankiel away: .399 SLG and .684 OPS
So you see a difference, but nothing anywhere near the magnitude of what you see with Holliday from Colorado. It’s not exactly a secret that the place amplifies power.
A comedy piece because it doesn’t fit your preconceived notions, BB? I’ve laid out the data in front of you. Tell me where I went wrong with the numbers. Sarcasm isn’t convincing me.
Correction, those were Ankiel’s season numbers. His career numbers are:
Home: .499 SLG and .820 OPS
Away: .431 SLG and .741 OPS
Definitely a larger gap. Still nothing like you see with Holliday.
You know Brian, normally I agree with your impeccable judgment, however, this time I would disagree with you and Tony Larussa at the same time. Yes, I know, who am I to question the two of the biggest genius’ in Cardinal baseball and I mean that in a nice way (pinches Brian’s cheek in a manly sort of way).
Here’s my thinking; first of all TLR wants a top quality hitter to bat behind Albert to protect him from intentional walks and at the same time he wants above average power in the two hole. Adding this to your thinking of Holliday in the two spot here’s what happens. Holliday (or whomever the slugger is) knocks a double or a single and a stolen base. What happens to Albert? He’s intentionally walked of course. This strategy of TLR’s totally contradicts what he is trying to accomplish. It just has never made sense to me. The Cards are far better off in having two high OBP singles hitters on in front of Albert with MH at cleanup. If there’s no place to put him you have to pitch to him. Am I right?
Some more splits on the season for the top SLG performers in the majors (SLG/OPS):
Pujols, I gave above.
Raul Ibanez: .600/.965 home, .659/1.029 away
Joe Mauer: .687/1.159 home, .528/.922 away
Prince Fielder: .533/.924 home, .654/1.117 away
Justin Morneau: .582/.985 home, .570/.948 away
Kevin Youkilis: .518/.929 home, .607/1.018 away
Ben Zobrist: .635/1.075 home, .528/.911 away
Mark Reynolds: .598/.979 home, .540/.887 away
I’m not seeing it. Home field isn’t giving a consistent advantage.
Hey Axcion, Brian didn’t write this one. I did. He, in fact, does not agree with me.
As for protecting Pujols, let Holliday get on base in front of him and go ahead and let opposing pitchers walk Pujols behind him. I wouldn’t mind seeing DeRosa and Ludwick up with two men on.
I have noticed the Ian versus Brian distinction. It reminds me of the Hoffpauir clans.
Nut, if Ankiel, DeRosa or Ludwig get hot enough, or grow enough, or whatever enough to be the #4 that could protect Albert, would they not also then be suitable as that #2 Tony wants?
The cards didnt trade the farm and bet all to get a #2 hitter, who in the past turned down $100+M for 5 yrs. and will demand at least as much. No way. They did it to protect albert at the plate so they could keep him happy and get the most out of what they have and will invest in him. DeRosa, Ankiel or Ludwig could get hot and “make em pay” for a while, but no one is ever going to pitch to Albert because they are afraid of any of them. Holliday alone can be that guy.
My understanding is that Holliday and Boras turned down $82 million for four years from Colorado.
Can the Cards afford two hitters totaling $50 million or so per year? Holliday and Pujols together could easily draw that much, at least they will a couple of years down the road when Albert’s current contract ends.
Edit: Here is the link to the article I wrote about this very situation last November…
Brian, OK, thanks, edit the above accordingly everyone.
Not a big deal as 4/82 and 5/100+ pretty much work out the same. It doesn’t take a math whiz to figure our where Boras will open bidding. Per year, the first number is going to be a “2″.
Exactly, if we cant or wont pay 50+ for Albert and Matt, then what are we doing besides dooming ourselves to a bleak future.
I cant believe that the bean counters would rather win in 2009 that retain the services of the biggest draw in MLB.
BB, teams tend to want different things out of their number two and number four hitters. For the former, they want the ability to get on base. For the latter, they want power to drive the former home. Ankiel, DeRosa, and Ludwick all have the ability to match Holliday’s slugging, but none of them will ever dream of matching his on-base percentage.
I don’t dispute that the Cardinals paid to bring Holliday in as a cleanup hitter. No doubt about it. I just think that they might win more ball games with him hitting second.
Nutlaw, I would have to agree with Brian. You offer a vigorous case, which I applaud, but it does not persuade me.
Thanks for some home/away splits. Its small n, but it looks like there is, on balance, what I would expect to be the case, a modest average higher home OPS than road. This should be true for baseball as a whole.
Why? Teams tend to have better home records and this has to translate into better home offensive stats, spread across all baseball (large N).
Holliday may have a larger effect when he played at Coors than ususal among players, but for all we know, maybe Holliday just likes to sleep in his own bed and plays better at home. Or maybe he parties too hard on the road and cant stay awake in the batters box. The imbalance during his days with Denver does not prove he is a Coors field wonder (though many people seem to have this thought, so you are not alone by any means).
Incidentally, Coors had a live ball era and now does not have such a strong one. So it would be important to separate the Coors data into these two periods.
You ask for a critique of your numbers. They are just numbers and its useful to think of physique and experience. DeRosa is strong for a 2nd baseman certainly, but Holliday has much more the normal build and physical tools for cleanup. Holliday has much more ML experience than Ludwick. Ludwick is so strong he should hit more HRs, but Holliday is a bit more like Pujols in terms of being a line drive, good average hitter.
Tony likes to put a guy in front of Pujols who can use the help. DeRosa is not hitting well for average, so may gain by having Albert behind him, so he can heat up. Ankiel and the rook Rasmus are good candidates for the 2nd slot too. But Holliday is immediately our 2nd best hitter and I like him protecting our best.
Win more games for how long, if Albert leaves for want of protection.
I don’t know. Increased RBIs may help Pujols sleep at night.
Plus of course if Holliday keeps hitting like this, who in the lineup protects him?
One issue here is the Holliday has multiple qualities. He is more than a high OBP guy, he is also just a strong line drive hitter. The latter quality outweighs the importance of the former, given all the other available players. Holliday is enough of an upgrade at cleanup that this determines his place in the lineup. He could also qualify to hit 2nd on grounds of strong OBP, but we need him at cleanup, because Holliday is such a fine hitter.
Nut, the sarcasm wasn’t meant to be insulting, I was stunned by the audacity of the idea. If you happen to see Mo beware of a sucker punch. If anyone puts it into Tony’s mind to put Matt 2nd and go back to the clean-up hitter shuffle Mo would no doubt have a cow. That’s a part of recent history I hope we don’t have to re-live.
Sorry Ian, I guess Brian’s impeccable judgment is still in tact. My case still stands though.
As for Holliday and Borass wanting $20 a year to start, he’ll get it from Boston if they don’t sign Jason Bay or if they divest themselves of J.D. Drew. Yankees will of course have something to say about that too, but the likelihood of our Cards being able to afford him are slim and none.
The youth movement was a stategic plan to have a lot of young talent on the team when Albert’s contract came up for renewal and thus the ability to afford him. Well, we see a major change in philosophy has seen that long term plan thrown out the window. Looks like Walt Jocketty gets the last laugh.
I don’t think any of this will happen if course. Nice points by all. Axcion, good observations. A real baseball team would do the obvious. Matt H. is your number three hitter. Pujols needs to wake up about his killing the running game up front. This privileged number 3 spot for the best statistical advantage sucks. Ludwick 5 and onward. Rasmus has to be grabbed by the ear and striaghtend out about his swing plane and homer or bust attitude. I like Lugo, Colby, Holiday with runners moving and Pujols doing what he would be doing in Boston. Anyone of those guys are going to steal bases when Albert is being pitched to. It hurts the low and off speed options for the pitcher.
Holiday’s future is unknown, but the market ain’t what it used to be. He will take five years at 85-90 large. He will be getting a third of Albert’s money the way things are shaping up. This will be a good conversation in September. DeWitt is the luckiest guy I know.
Don’t forget that Holiday gave up on MM hitting tips. He is feeding off the crowd unmolested. Think of how he might respond if Albert stopped pouting. We could win the whole shebang.
I know I’m being hard on Albert, but a spiritual crisis being diluted by self pity is the most common experience of all. It happens at all levels of endeavor. Albert is masking it in his body posture at the plate. He wants to be able to open his hips to trap pitches on his hands. He knows its killing him so he is laying of the bat and rotating right at the waste. He is like a spring wound to tight and he can’t seem to time anything. Bat and hands always working against each other.
They have super slow motion breakdown on film so the cause is methodology, not ignorance.(Hal)
Doesn’t make sense to me to have a guy who hits a lot of doubles batting in front of Albert Pujols with Ludwick, Ankiel or DeRosa hitting behind him. With first base open, opposing pitchers will simply walk Albert, just as they did all year long before Holliday showed up.
Since Holliday has been here AP has been given two intentional walks and Holliday was also given an IBB after one of those. That means he has been walked one time in nine games in favor of pitching to the number four hitter as opposed to 34 times in the first 98 games. That’s a 2/3 drop rate of occurrence.
2/3 drop IN rate of occurrence.
You might always think that avoiding leaving 1st base open is terrible for Albert. Not if he is a cleanup hitter. Think of the runs scored by those doubles from MH. The bases stolen. The scoring from first on the hit and runs. Albert having been avoided so much this year have really bumped his statistics. You can’t kill a running game because it hurts Albert’s numbers. The only problem I have with hitting him third is because of how he has reacted. He has stunk with the protection. Holiday’s power off field and his willingness to hit behind runners, tops Albert’s needs.
DD thanks for supporting my position on Holliday batting second. Oddly, I do support him hitting third with Albert in the cleanup as WCW suggests. Unfortunately, unless TLR thinks it’s his idea, it won’t happen.
New Redbird makes a nest………….Bernie just wrote a little diddy thats kind of topical. Tony mentions Albert’s problems.
First off, thought provoking post. However, I have to disagree with the conclusion, but for different reasons than those stated. “Protection” for Albert is a psychological thing with the opposing pitcher and, more to the point, manager. While the sabermetric numbers say “bat Holiday 2nd” the opposing manager will, almost invariably, have a higher level of respect/fear of Holiday than say, Ryan Ludwick. As a result, if the goal is to get Albert more pitches to look at and fewer intentional walks than batting Holiday 4th makes the most sense because, of all Cardinals, he is the most likely to accomplish that task.
Maybe I will put in a little positive plug regarding Lugo in this thread.
Something that can happen in baseball is, as with Lugo in Boston, he gets a big contract, and finds it hard to be quite as good as the fans think he should be, given the big contract. This happenned with Renteria there, maybe. So then Lugo gets less playing time and when a guy does not play regularly, he often finds it hard to stay sharp. Or maybe he becomes less happy or has a decline in self confidence.
So it can be a nice thing for a guy like Lugo to get a fresh opportunity in a new situation. It cheers him up and motivates him to try to impress a new fan base. So he comes over to St Louis and does a nice job in his first few games.
Lugo is a well experienced ML player, he has been around the block. The situation in Boston probably suppressed him a little in terms of hitting stats and he has more ability than he showed there. Give him a new opportunity in another town and favorable pitching matchups when possible, and Lugo can give the Cards a nice contribution. Its fantastic that the Red Sox picked up his salary.
Meanwhile Chris Duncan is under a .500 OPS in the early going for Pawtucket. The Red Sox probably are rolling the dice that Chris can gain strength in his shoulder in future and rebound someday. This may not be a bad gamble for the Sox, but its a little hard to think they will have the 40 man roster room for him this fall. Chris is kind in the same sort of not-easy situation as his brother Shelley, a AAA slugger for the Yanks. With rich teams like the Yanks and Sox, they have so much depth of personnel, its hard to get playing time at the ML level.
Chris, I’m sure that what you are saying is absolutely right. It will probably also be the case that opposing managers won’t entirely believe the Coors split for much longer than the remainder of this season.
I’m actually okay with Pujols getting free bases, however. It may not be as exciting to watch and it may not pump up his counting stats, but more base runners mean more runs. I’d trust Ludwick, DeRosa, and the rest of the lineup to drive him in.
Batting Holliday second is intriguing, but I like him batting fourth because it is almost like having a second lead off hitter.
Then again walking Pujols is generally good for the Cardinals.
Pujols will probably walk as much and produce as much no matter where he bats in the lineup with microscopic differences depending on what regular is batting in front or behind him.
“Not thinking. Being the source. Ego and intellect are just complications of the laws that bind matter to hope. ”
3/1 hit and run for Pujols with Valverde on the mound. 3/2 hit and run with Valverde on the mound……………………………………………………….. Tony was attempting to restrict Pujols by narrowing his contact options and swing choices. Thats how bad Tony thinks it is. Maybe now that the donkey has died we can get Albert back on. Poor Adam. 3/0 green light to Molina? Kahlil showing a lethal dose of pharmaceutical eyes.
Jumbo, you’re right, the boys did their darnedest.
Norris has a good arm. We drafted his college team-mates Gary Daley and Tom Eager, the Astros got the good pitcher with a 6th rounder. Its too bad, but it happens.
TLR was trying to avoid a double play grounder, but instead ran into one by starting the runner. It happens.
Runner on, last batter enjoys 3-0 count, of course Molina has a green light.
No team wins all 162.
Lost in all of this talk of where Holliday should hit in the lineup is the fact that MO is somewhere thanking his lucky stars he made the deal for MH. With Pujols on vacation for the past couple weeks with an almost zero contribution, you have to wonder where the team would be without Holliday. The answer is: about 6 or 7 games in back of the Cubs. In fact, if MO hadn’t made the deals for DeRosa, Lugo and Holliday, he’d probably being swinging from a yard-arm in front of Busch stadium right now. Not that I’m implying that Cardinal fans are a little too passionate about their team.
As for Albert, it’s time for the big guy to sit down for a couple games until he clears his head of whatever his problem is. We’re done feeling sorry for you Albert, now snap out of it!!!! Where is that famous plate discipline. All the sudden you think you’re Vlady Guerrero and can hit anything within a 6 foot radius of the plate. What’s the point of having Holliday to protect you if you’re not going to take advantage of it. Looks like Albert has a bad case of Ankielitis. Some one press the reset button on our hitting machine so that he stops getting himself out and starts making the pitchers earn their money.
Okay, so you’ve proven you’re only human Albert. Thank you…..good….we get the message….now stop hitting like Joe Thurston. Pleassssssseeeeeee!!!!!!!!
“Laws that bind matter to hope.”
Hope is just an emotion or mood, not a law within physics.
It may be that some wishful humans believe that their hopes can telepathically influence matter. Maybe this is why fans root, root, root for the home team.
Luck is residue of design. Mozeliak knew the team needed Holliday, DeRosa, and Lugo, hence trades.
When Pujols is not hitting, its probably because of his chronic elbow ligament injury, not swing or mental state.
+1 Axcion
+1 Jumbo…………I think? String theory and a few moments in a bamboo grove Jumbo.
A master poet i not,
plenty o problems i got,
But in my heart
Moses stands warming his hands against the high mountain air, a flaming bush warms and lights his work
Siddhartha is sitting by his Ganges, the river flowing forever inward
Lord Krishna is standing near by, blue on pointed toe, both a model of the grace i hope to know
A rabbi’s blood stains neither cloth nor hand in my hope.
Free me; free my brother Yeshua, he cries!
In his simple hut, in a grove of bamboo, the sage has made ready, tea for all.
Tea can be welcome, depending on leaf and thirst.
JS,
When Pujols is not hitting it is probably due to the fact that he chose a career in which failure happens much more often than success for mere mortals. He is proving to be mortal.
If his elbow was bothering him, I don’t think he would have even tried to make the play to second base in the fifth inning Saturday to gun down Quintero on the sacrifice attempt by W. Rodriguez.
DD: Yes, point well taken. Albert has been beaten by pitchers 2/3rds of his career. And he did a splendid job on the Wandy bunt; I saw a replay.
Yet a mark of Albert’s greatness is t he has overcome elbow pain through the years. At this blog, there seems a lot concern about the mental state of our stalwart lads, plus their flawed swings (naughty Hal). I try to remember that the physical can influence the mental, it not simply a one way street in the other direction.
While perfection would be wonderful, I’ll take a 5-2 homestand just about every time.
WHY HALLIDAY SHOULD LEAD OFF.
The prototype is a high OBP guy who can and does steal second a lot. We don’t have that, but can accomplish the same end with a high OBP guy who hits a lot of doubles. This reduces the chance of the number two grounding into a DP and leaving the bases empty for 3 & 4. The #2, not having the DP option before him, could focus on meekly grounding to the right side, getting the leadoff guy over to third with one out, or maybe driving him in or making it 1st and third. After the first at bat, the leadoff would get his fair share of RBI opportunities since the bottom of our order tends to produce base runners better than most.
WHY ALBERT SHOULD LEAD OFf
Albert has the highest on base percentage. He also has 5 times the steals of Schumaker. And he might get a few more at bats per year.
Yadier in the 2 hole has a high on base percentage. He has stolen 6 of 7, whereas Skip is 2 out of 4. Even though slow, Yadier is aggressive on the base paths.
Then Holliday, Ludwick, Ankiel, DeRosa, pitcher bats 7th, Schumaker, Ryan. Looks like a good order.
Its Holiday bling. Did you happen to see baseball tonight Jumbo, friends. They did a slow mo break down of his problem. They were very polite about its cause but suggested he needs to take a few days off. Also, If we don’t send Hal on vacation, I think Ludwick is reverting to May form too.
How do we know the source of the problem is Hal McRae? Maybe Mike Aldrete is messing up their swings? Maybe its Dave Duncan, he was a position player and might have ideas about hitting?
In any event, who is responsible, the hitter or the coach? Just maybe the hitters are responsible to their performances.
We put a good lineup on the field today, supplemented with $11MM of pinch-hitters. Albert is not a 1 man team. Other players have to hit. Bud Norris was throwing 95. He may enjoy some success in the majors, even if few have heard of him before.
Oops. I used to live on Halliday just off Grand, a brain lock, no doubt due to thinking outside the box.
Axcion’s term “Ankielitis” seems right-on. Albert’s and Rick’s at bats look a lot alike.
Hey Jumbo, while I realize that daring to speak negatively about the being, second only to God on this man’s green earth, known as Albert is sacrilege. I did so with the feeling that Pujols (the ultimate perfectionist) himself would agree with me. Yes, he has spoiled me and millions of others we feats of grandeur and I should feel guilty for even thinking of raining on his image, however, I can’t help but think that right now Albert is kicking his own rear as he watches some of his recent feeble swings on video.
And if it’s any concellation, I’ve taken a few ill advised swings at God too for low attendance in my life. I get the feeling that if I keep this up I’ll be spending my eternal afterlife as a Cubs fan. Oh the horror!!!!
Good one AX. Thats why I called it a spiritual crisis:)
Yesterday one of the stltoday columns had Albert insisting very unequivocally that there was no physical problem and specifically no elbow problem. Albert would have danced and jigged around the question rather than flat out lying to the fans if there was a physical issue. Does anyone know if he has ever had a similar slump where both his mechanics and discipline where so out, and it was nothing physical.
It takes big ones to suggest holliday should hit 2nd when he is hitting over .500 in the cleanup slot. For now, I think I just leave things the way they are.
Bling, I think you forgot the question mark so I will treat it as such. Truth be know, Albert is in an emotional funk, fueled by self doubt. The All star game gave him a real humbling. The emotional pain of unfulfilled expectation really took its toll. Also, the changing environment created by the new players, has altered his self image as it exposed the vulnerability to the foundations of that self image. Albert is so good because he keeps it so simple. His opening up over Ped’s with the subsequent religious posturing really opened him up to self doubt and a very complex performance scenario. His desires have created conflict between his mind and his technique. Something that happens often in music surround emotionally complex and demanding concerto’s.
If he doesn’t address the real issue, he is in for a long battle because the opportunity to deal with issues of spiritual growth don’t present them selves all that often. I’m watching with interest. The unmaking of a natural is always their true nature, out of faze.
Westy, I’m trying to follow you on this. You refer to the “real issue” . What exactly are you saying that is in Albert’s case? Should he not be able to compartmentalize it and work it through on its own time line, without so adversely affecting his performance on the field?
Self realization is the aspiration to all growth Bling. Albert is a very basic Christian. Considering his statements about direct conversations and accountability to Gods Will, he is opening himself up to a huge can of whoop ass. His simple animal instincts and territoriality concerning the entry of MH to his domain, and his inability to respond, might be confused by him as a retribution or interruption in his inner dialog with God. He is suffering a sever emotional conflict. Consider this, at the core of Christian beliefs, you have God the Father allowing his son Jesus to suffer the pains of the crucifixion as a lesson in humility. Thats a full can. Albert, in his simplicity and innocents, has left himself in a very vulnerable situation. By posturing so grandly, in his own estimation of the”spiritual significance” of playing baseball, he has placed himself in a situation where I would recommend that Albert “duck”.
In all fairness, these guys are placed in difficult emotional situations by hospital visit and fan adulation. It can be very confusing to have so many depend on you. Ask Yeshua (Jesus) Albert.
CC, I’m not sure that the lineup spot that one is in will make his batting average go up or down unless he tries to do something dramatically different at the plate as a result. The fact that he is getting on base so often is the entire thrust behind the argument to move him up higher in the order where he could see more at bats and be driven in more often.
Well, it’s been said “better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without”. Westy, in light of what you say, I wonder if its helpful to leave The Albert in his customary #3 spot, just because he’s The Albert. Anybody else would see some time lower in the order to take the pressure off.
Maybe………….. or maybe he needs a shock from outside his head to bring him back. I would shake him up if I was coaching.
That’s what I was thinking too. Maybe treating him like he’s so special the normal rules don’t apply is feeding the problem by upping the pressure. He has said he is not superman. Being treated like he is would conflict.
I have no doubt WCW, that at this point Albert is suffering a crisis of spiritual conscience. I’m sure he’s wondering what God is trying to teach him with this slump. To me Albert is over thinking/analyzing every last thing he does. I think Blingboy mentioned the immense pressures Albert is under on and off the field. He damn near carried this team for 3 straight months. While everyone else took turns being injured or struggling around him, El Hombre the Great put the entire organization on his back and navigated the mine fields of the National League right up through the expectations of winning the homerun derby at the All-Star game. With the insane expectations of myself and every other Card fan having been exceeded by Albert, what freaking more could he do??? I suppose a collapse of a mere mortal should have been expected. I keep telling myself he’s just another ball player, I just can’t get myself to believe it!!!
The problem with Albert is that he tries to do everything asked of him on and off the field. He puts a great deal of expectations upon himself. He even coaches other players. The questions is: what doesn’t Albert do? The answer: give himself room to breath.
If I could I would kidnap Albert and take him fishing for a week to just let him chill and clear his head and then bring him back and let him kick the snot out of the rest of the league until we’re crowned World Series Champions again in 2009.
Amen AX!!! His team has to pick him up. Its not a bad thing. Its his pathway. If he addresses the real issues, he will come out stronger than before. Thats how it works.
I could see this coming after the All star break, when he made the comment that God was going to tell him where to play. I offered up a little prayer and was banned from the Viva group because they thought I was making fun of Albert religious beliefs. An enlightened bunch there.
Westie, IIRC, didnt you volunteer here that you got in a fist fight at Candlestick Park with a gal from a parochial school? If you also got banned at VEB for funning Albert’s beliefs, maybe the commonality is people of faith find your ideas a little too stimulating.
Offer up another prayer WCW, we don’t want Albert going anywhere else to escape the pressures of being the ‘Second Coming’. Okay maybe that pedestal is a little to high to put him on, but just in case anyone sees a bunch of Romans show up with a Crucifix to Busch Stadium; wrap Albert up in a giant diaper, put him in a giant wicker basket and float him down the Mighty Mississip’. Yes, I know it’s backwards, but this is revisionist history and I’ve stolen WCW’s poetic license just for this one post.
She was serving Guinness at the Pub by the ballpark wearing a schoolgirl outfit. I finally had to fight here off with a couple of honey bee’s and my room number Jumbo.
Ax, the architecture of all religious concepts are fraught with danger. Albert is practicing an old testament relationship concept in a new testament sea of discontent. Sounds like bad weather from here. Its easy to see from a distance. I know that I have solved almost all of the cruelty and injustice in the Andromeda Galaxy with my abundant “good intension’s”. Go out and take a look. Poetic license, well I never!!!!
If Albert Pujols isn’t this year’s MVP, I’ll eat WCW’s massive combobulation of rhetoric.
Ummm I don’t have to understand what they mean first do I ? ((:
The framework of these concepts will help you down the line Ax. The attempt at understanding is the opening in which change occurs. You know what triggered Albert’s response? The fear and concern he felt for his family when his address was published in the paper. He really went off about that. A bad setup for the All star game. I can answer specific questions you have, but it is impossible to form them for you.
Just call me ‘Grasshopper’ oh wise and sagacious wordsmith. I humble myself at your feet.
As for the publishing of the players addresses, I know you won’t find this in your parlance, but I have no qualms about saying it: that was a pure, unadulterated JACK-ASS move. You can not justify to me the need to put these players and their families lives in possible peril by making this info public. And newspaper whores trying to increase their revenue is not a good excuse or any consolation to the players.
Its was so stupid Ax, I’m sure it must have been just a huge lapse in judgment. I hope.
Lets hope that the Mets have a soft spot for our miseries. They are a snake-bitten bunch.
While I’d love to take credit and say Albert and I had a wonderful fishing trip, I can’t, but it does look like Pujols is back off vacation after driving the spike into the heart of the Mets tonight. I just have one more thing to say on the matter:
ALBERT’S BACK! ALBERT’S BACK! GO CARDS!!!!!!
What a ticklish negotiation all this is getting to be. Whats with DeRosa? Thank god he was hit. Holiday was a little wide eyed. Lets hope everyone starts feeding together. Lugo was the man today. And Albert taking the walk 3/2 in the 8th. Good moments.
Colby taking 3 windmill swings for the money, legs straight. What a rookie.
Ah WCW my learned bard, DeRosa does seem to be blinding us all to his anemic batting average with that all or nothing stroke. You don’t find many heroes down on the Mendoza Line, but we seem to have one and the fans are so enamored with his long balls (no silly jokes here please) that they feel a .200 hitter should be in front of Albert. Obviously the wrist is a problem and before we canonize him with a long term contract, it behoves the team to be a little prudent.
That is wisdom Ax.