The Cardinal Nation blog

Brian Walton's news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals (TM) and their minor league system

Cardinals Minor Matters: June 2


Manny an All-Star?

This article from the San Francisco Chronicle joins many voices speaking in outrage that Dodger Manny Ramirez could be voted into the All-Star Game while suspended. What makes this one stand out is a reminder that in 1989, Tony La Russa pulled Jose Canseco out of the Game despite the player having been voted in. The reason was less onerous – Canseco hadn’t played during the season due to injury.

Here is my take on the current problem. As usual, MLB has dropped the ball through their inaction. They can’t change the printed ballots; fine. But it would be very, very simple to make Manny’s name disappear from the online ballot. Idiots wouldn’t vote for him if his name wasn’t so easy to select.

Is that so hard to figure out?


Walking Albert

The increased level of opposing pitchers walking Albert Pujols has captured the attention of the New York Times.


Bonds strike out in Memphis

Bloomberg seemed to recap the current situation in Memphis clearly from a financial perspective and puts it into the overall municipal bonds context:

“This year, 16 municipal issuers have failed to make payments on $426 million in bonds. In 2008, 140 issuers defaulted on a record $7.6 billion. Among the latest to default: the Memphis Redbirds Foundation, which in 1998 sold $72 million in sports facility revenue bonds to help pay for a minor-league baseball franchise and a 14,000-seat stadium in downtown Memphis. Since 1999, issuers have defaulted on $24.13 billion in municipal bonds out of a total of $3.4 trillion issued, according to Thomson Reuters.”

In terms of the business side, the financial problems are making it difficult to attract a buyer for the team. The stadium is wonderful, but carries too heavy of a debt. More details in the Memphis Commercial Appeal.


Cardinals’ Hispanic players

The Springfield News-Leader ran an article about the challenges Hispanic ballplayers face in competing in the United States and how they work together to survive and in some cases, to excel. Unfortunately, almost before the article appeared, two of the players, Kristhiam Linares and Elvis Hernandez, were sent back to Palm Beach. Still, a nice read.


Hometown look at Lohse

With the Cardinals on the West Coast last weekend, several organizational members with area ties were featured in local papers. Pitcher Kyle Lohse, who says he is improved from his forearm injury enough to start on Wednesday, was featured in his hometown paper in Chico, CA. A more in-depth article than we often encounter in these parts.


TLR defends his name

This “in your face(book)” and tweeting world in which we live certainly brings out the kooks. Some nut created a Twitter identity calling himself Tony La Russa and posted a series of very uncomplimentary messages.

La Russa’s lawyer couldn’t get Twitter to do anything until a lawsuit was filed. Then, the objectionable content magically disappeared.

Details in the San Francisco Chronicle.


1989 A’s reunion

This article’s primary focus is on lost soul Jose Canseco. Though there is a TLR quote, as well as mentions of Mark McGwire and Carney Lansford in the context of the 1989 World Champion A’s upcoming 20th reunion.

I can’t help but include a Canseco passage:

“Last weekend, Canseco even participated in mixed martial arts “fight” with a 7-foot-2 Korean gentleman named Hong Man Choi… Maybe you saw it. In less than 80 seconds, Canseco was curled up in a fetal position on the mat, being pounded into submission.”


TLR #1 manager

So says Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. That La Russa is up from number four last year despite his clubs missing the playoffs each of the last two seasons is interesting.


Duncan to Cooperstown?

ESPN’s Rick Sutcliffe put together a nice little argument in favor of sending pitching coach Dave Duncan to the Baseball Hall of Fame along with Tony La Russa. It would clearly be ground-breaking.

22 Responses to “Cardinals Minor Matters: June 2”

  1. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Thanks Brian………

  2. Axcion says:

    I’m sure Tony would tell you that Duncan is a huge reason he will go in the HOF and quite frankly I think Duncan’s brilliance as a pitching coach should, without question, get him voted in the same year Larussa goes in. They are the epitome of “team: the tactician and the teacher”. If I were Larussa I’d refuse the nomination unless Duncan was standing on the podium with me. Yeah, I know easy for me to say, but I could see Tony really doing it.

    Personally, I always thought pitching coach Mel Queen deserved to be in the Hall too. Just ask Carpenter and Roy Halliday what he meant to their careers.

  3. Brian says:

    Johnny Sain and Leo Mazzone come to mind, too. I don’t think any men have been inducted because of their coaching. Too bad.

  4. DizzyDean17 says:

    I think Johnny Sain merits HOF recognition based on his overall body of week. He’s one of hundreds of major leaguers to lose three seasons to WWII and came back and became famous as Warren Spahn’s running mate in 1948, Spahn and Sain and pray for rain.

    I believe he was also credited with forming the coaching styles of a few other successful pitching coaches.

    As for Mazzone, I am of the opinion that he hopped aboard a fast-moving train when he landed in Atlanta in June of 1990. Glavine and Smoltz were joined by Maddux to form the best threesome of pitchers in the last 40 years. Maddux has been called by many the smartest man in baseball and you have to wonder how much wisdom he imparted to the other members of that pitching staff that mazzone was credited for.

    Had Mazzone moved on, a la Duncan, to a few other spots and created the same kind of success he enjoyed in Atlanta, I’d buy into his greatness, but I haven’t seen anything like that.

  5. Brian says:

    DD, many baseball fans feel about Mazzone as you. I was convinced by reading others who are closer to the situation than I that the criticism may be unjustified. Let me say that I have no particular interest in him, but do respect his work.

    Please read this article at “The Baseball Analysts” by J.C. Bradbury. He did an extensive assessment of pitchers pre- and post-Mazzone and came to this conclusion:

    “The verdict: having Leo Mazzone as a pitching coach lowered a pitcher’s ERA by a little more than half a run. This estimate controlled for many potential biasing factors. To my surprise the results set off a chain-reaction of follow-up studies at Baseball Think Factory, which largely confirmed the robustness of my initial findings.”

    The fact Mazzone had all his success with one organization is not a negative as far as I am concerned.

    What would be interesting is a similar piece of work for Duncan. Would he be worth more, less or the same value in terms of pitcher ERA improvement?

  6. DizzyDean17 says:

    Brian,

    I have read about that study before and remain firm in my opinion. I’m certainly not calling him a bum and he may have been the right guy in the right spot but I don’t see him as the Hall of Famer guy who “made” all those pitchers. You or I might’ve done well with Maddux and Smoltz around to offer tips. I would have set up some good tee times for the boys.

    Denny Neagle and Charlie Leibrandt both had success before arriving in Atlanta. Kevin Millwood and Jason Schmidt had plenty after leaving. Steve Avery may have been ruined by Leo’s methods. I may not be from the “Show Me” state but my dad is.

  7. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Tony seems to be trending on his pitcher at the 8th slot. Seems like we struggle with it.
    We better be stressing Arroyo in this game because we need to eat up that bull pen now.

  8. Nutlaw says:

    Okay, I was tempted to find video of this Canseco thing:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrPykCHPW50

    Surreal.

  9. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    The vibe I’m getting from Ankiel is kind of unusual. My guess, by listening to some of Mo’s generalities, is that Rick has got a call from Boras pointing out that the Cards are shopping him. This would be normal for interested teams to check out extension possibilities. Also by some of the comments made about Colby before the game, it looks like RC is the source of the kids new closed stance. I wish Luddy would take a hint. His timing on his step from open to closed is off. Its creating nothing but indecision and a loss of balance. I am not a McRae fan as you all know. I like that Colby is closing his stance trying to keep his hands back and shoulder closed. Now he just has to set a trap on occasion and step in the bucket when he thinks they are going to jam him. Thats a Mike Piazza trick. As I’m writing this, Rick forces himself to stay closed and doubles OPO. Ya think!!

  10. JumboShrimp says:

    Those steroids did not do much for Jose against a real giant, not the SF Giants. It could the same one the Cubs traded to the Marlins for Derrek Lee, the one who messed up Rolen.

  11. JumboShrimp says:

    The season has had its share of surprises. This winter we discussed Franklin’s shortcomings, yet he has only been outstanding. K Greene and Ankiel were gangbusters in spring training, but have struggled. Schumaker really stayed at 2B and Rasmus really got added. McClellan looked bad late last year and in spring training, yet has been super. Thompson does not pitch for two weeks, but chips in 5 innings. Glaus had a secret injury. Freese had an unlucky injury, but Barden and Thurston have been gamers. Barton got traded, Mather hurt, so Stavinoha gets to drive in some runs. Plenty more season for more surprises.

  12. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Thurston isn’t going anywhere. Barden will be the victim of the next move bringing in T Greene or Mather, maybe both with the elimination of a pitcher. I think he knows it.

  13. ball in play says:

    yes, i also have barden as the last position player. thurston’s recent success at the plate has vaulted his batter rankings on the team and within the league for 09.
    thurston currently ranks 2nd in many of the teams important offensive categories. OPS, OPS+, wOBA, OBP, RC/G, OW%, BtRuns, BtWins, TotA, SecA, BB%, XBH%. he’s playing crazy good.

    is he a flash in the pan? can he maintain close to this type production the remainder of 09?
    he certainly looks like an outstanding minor league FA signing at this time. he entered 09 with 154 mlb service days accumulated. just slightly short of one full yr (172 days). he will be under team control for another 5 years, if the org desires to keep him.

    he is versatile defensively, and if the logjamb in the outfield were to allow skip to return to the outfield, there’s a good case to be made for thurston as the everyday 2B. depending entirely upon his continued success at the plate, of course.

  14. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Solid analysis BiP. Thurston will be around for a while. Barden got shafted, which happens around here it seems. He preformed well but ended up being a pawn in the Tony / BD war. Confidence is so important up here. I guy his age just wants to know he made it. In all fairness to Tony, as hot as this team was in April, it wasn’t a playoff team. Or to be more precise, a winning playoff team with Barden at third base. This team needs a man with hair on his chest. Someone thats self motivated and capable if interacting with Albert in Albert’s little prayer space. Not an easy find. Glaus isn’t that guy. Duncan can’t hit 4th to save his life. We all know Luddy could go either way now. Ankiel is a wonderful athlete, but unfortunately much to insecure to make adjustments. If they take him past 7/31, he is worthless. I believe he will be part of a multiple player deal. Lohse is looking at 3 AL league teams from the central division this month. If he doesn’t come out smoking tonight or Monday, there could be problems arising for June.

  15. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    AB R H RBI TB BB K AVG OBP SLG
    S. Schumaker, 2B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .306 .353 .428
    C. Duncan, LF 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .256 .346 .438
    A. Pujols, 1B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .339 .469 .678
    R. Ludwick, RF 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .248 .316 .479
    R. Ankiel, CF 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .222 .297 .364
    Y. Molina, C 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .268 .348 .363
    J. Thurston, 3B 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .268 .380 .441
    K. Lohse, P 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .250 .333 .250
    B. Ryan, SS

    Tony is babysitting Ankiel here. If he plays at all, absolutely no reason to bat him 5th. None what so ever. That is Tony’s response to a pout. Tony’s weakness. In my opinion, this is why other team members cannot find footing here. It is purely about Tony and his recognition of his personnel vision. If he bats him 7th and says pick it up A__H—e, thats meaningful. If Rick does get a couple of hits, where are you. Everyone gets hot sometimes. Nothing is achieved this way in the long run. Lets pray that Chris is looking middle/ away, and not the River, maybe we score runs there. Putting Ludwick and Ankiel together puts it all on Lohse………..bad idea.

  16. s.f. says:

    A not-so-minor minors matter: The Cardinals flat-out released Tyler Herron, saying he wasn’t progressing adequately. What do we make of THAT?

  17. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Means they couldn’t give him away, so they sent him away. 1st rounder must have cost them something.

  18. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Braves give 4 players for McClouth. Braves were one of the spots for Ankiel, now gone.

  19. Brian says:

    s.f., as I said on Scout, I find it very surprising. Sources from StL and Spr each are saying the identical thing – declining performance. Though he struggled in his most recent outing, Herron went six consecutive starts prior to that allowing two runs are fewer. Doesn’t match up. Sorry to see him leave the organization and sorry the Cards have nothing to show for their investment.

  20. WestCoastbirdWatcher says:

    Would you say there is a little impatience showing here Brian? Isolation maybe? The Braves made something happen. No one interested in Mo/Lunhous toys?

  21. Axcion says:

    The Cardinal Organization would never say it, but you have to know it’s for disciplinary reasons. Like Brian said he was progessing quite nicely after his first few starts. Look at the facts: Tyler Herron is a 22 year old, first round draft pick who’s picking WELL (4.34 era) at AA. The declining performance thing just doesn’t wash by any stretch.

    Just look at the ages and era’s of the rest of the SPR pitching roster; Trey Hearne 25 (3.12), as is Degerman (4.02), McCormick (inj), Parise (2.86), Gonzalez (4.91) and Norrick (3.84); At 24 years we have Josh Dew (inj), Dickson (4.47), Fiske (7.53), Furnish (5.91), Mura (7.88) and Maiques (14.73), (Even Elvis Hernandez (4.91) who was just sent down to PB); The young pups at 23 are Kulik (5.79)and Kopp (6.52). Only recently added Lance Lynn (22, 4.18) and Eduardo Sanchez (20, 8.10) are younger than Tyler Herron. Just look at these facts and tell me it was his performance. Plus, they couldn’t get another team to take him? He should have been an easy throw-in a trade for a 3b.

    The Cards wouldn’t release him because of injury or, in reality, give up on such a huge investment this easy (see Gary Daley). Yes I know it’s conjecture, but I’d bet my wife he pissed off the team in a real big way. I’d bet money Brian knows too, but he respects the code and will NOT reveal the truth.

    Where there is smoke, there’s fire. Tyler Herron will land with another team pretty quickly.

  22. Axcion says:

    Tyler Herron signs with the Pirates (June 12th). As I said “Tyler Herron will land with another team pretty quickly.”

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