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	<title>Comments on: Mac declines La Russa’s suggestion to speak up</title>
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	<description>Brian Walton&#039;s news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals (TM) and their minor league system</description>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://thecardinalnationblog.com/2009/01/20/mac-declines-to-speak-up/#comment-644</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecardinalnation.com/?p=1046#comment-644</guid>
		<description>Judging by the number of players that come to his area to work out during the off-season, the rest of Mac&#039;s life seems to still have baseball in a prominent location. 

As you noted, Jay McGwire speculates that Mark does not care about the HoF. Who knows other than the player himself how he really feels. 

The &quot;respect for the game&quot; line of thinking is interesting, but I don&#039;t buy it, at least in McGwire&#039;s context. Forget the issue of whether or not PED use is considered cheating and therefore disrespectful of the game. He grew up under La Russa, who does feel very strongly about respecting the game. The most recent example I recall was his underplaying of the Kenny Rogers pine tar incident in G2 of the 2006 World Series. I don&#039;t see any way PED use can be linked to respect for the game in a positive manner, however. 

I do wonder if La Russa was internally conflicted by seeing his players get larger and larger while McKay ran a clean program. Later when he asked McGwire, he accepted Mark&#039;s answer and that was that. Seems pretty naive, like a parent refusing to admit their underage kid is smoking or drinking beer or worse, but part of respecting the game is definitely supporting your players. 

I pulled this passage out of &quot;Three Nights in August&quot;. While it is Buzz Bissinger, not Tony speaking and the specific section was about hit batters, it is Tony&#039;s general philosophy.


&lt;blockquote&gt;
&quot;He knew that if he didn&#039;t protect his players, didn&#039;t stand up for them, the respect they gave him - a porous bond to begin with in the distracted world of the modern athlete - would crumble away.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;



We may never know, because Mac will surely outlive Tony and I doubt he&#039;d ever openly discuss it anyway, but I would love to know what Tony has REALLY thought all along. He has to realize he has undermined his own public credibility by continuing to support McGwire so aggressively, remaining his most solid defender even as the evidence on the other side of the scale mounted. Perhaps he viewed a major scandal would be a worse disrespect of the game and was concerned about breaking his code of respect for his players. Above it all, his personal Hall of Fame legacy remains safe. I would put pretty high odds on that being very important to Tony.

The subtle change in TLRs stance regarding McGwire that I called out above was seemingly missed by others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judging by the number of players that come to his area to work out during the off-season, the rest of Mac&#8217;s life seems to still have baseball in a prominent location. </p>
<p>As you noted, Jay McGwire speculates that Mark does not care about the HoF. Who knows other than the player himself how he really feels. </p>
<p>The &#8220;respect for the game&#8221; line of thinking is interesting, but I don&#8217;t buy it, at least in McGwire&#8217;s context. Forget the issue of whether or not PED use is considered cheating and therefore disrespectful of the game. He grew up under La Russa, who does feel very strongly about respecting the game. The most recent example I recall was his underplaying of the Kenny Rogers pine tar incident in G2 of the 2006 World Series. I don&#8217;t see any way PED use can be linked to respect for the game in a positive manner, however. </p>
<p>I do wonder if La Russa was internally conflicted by seeing his players get larger and larger while McKay ran a clean program. Later when he asked McGwire, he accepted Mark&#8217;s answer and that was that. Seems pretty naive, like a parent refusing to admit their underage kid is smoking or drinking beer or worse, but part of respecting the game is definitely supporting your players. </p>
<p>I pulled this passage out of &#8220;Three Nights in August&#8221;. While it is Buzz Bissinger, not Tony speaking and the specific section was about hit batters, it is Tony&#8217;s general philosophy.</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;He knew that if he didn&#8217;t protect his players, didn&#8217;t stand up for them, the respect they gave him &#8211; a porous bond to begin with in the distracted world of the modern athlete &#8211; would crumble away.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>We may never know, because Mac will surely outlive Tony and I doubt he&#8217;d ever openly discuss it anyway, but I would love to know what Tony has REALLY thought all along. He has to realize he has undermined his own public credibility by continuing to support McGwire so aggressively, remaining his most solid defender even as the evidence on the other side of the scale mounted. Perhaps he viewed a major scandal would be a worse disrespect of the game and was concerned about breaking his code of respect for his players. Above it all, his personal Hall of Fame legacy remains safe. I would put pretty high odds on that being very important to Tony.</p>
<p>The subtle change in TLRs stance regarding McGwire that I called out above was seemingly missed by others.</p>
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		<title>By: JumboShrimp</title>
		<link>http://thecardinalnationblog.com/2009/01/20/mac-declines-to-speak-up/#comment-642</link>
		<dc:creator>JumboShrimp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecardinalnation.com/?p=1046#comment-642</guid>
		<description>In a nice essay below by David Brooks is a quote from Ryne Sandberg that reminds me, faintly, of MMcGwire.   Sandberg mentions that he did not play the game in order to be validated by the Hall of Fame, rather out of respect for his profession.  
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/opinion/27brooks.html?ref=opinion

Some seem to assume that unless McGwire begs for entry into the Hall of Fame, the quality of his working life has not been validated.   McGwire is either too proud, they assume.  Or too ashamed of his choices.   Maybe this is so.   

Yet there are other possible explanations for what McGwire&#039;s silence may connote.   For instance, he could feel like he gave his utmost when he played.   He could feel, like Sandberg, he did not play for personal acclaim like the HoF, but with respect for his craft.   The petty world of baseball has become besotted about PEDs, such that there is not a respectful environment for McGwire.   He does not owe fans anymore.  They can engage in their speculations.  He is getting on with the rest of his life.   If so, good for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a nice essay below by David Brooks is a quote from Ryne Sandberg that reminds me, faintly, of MMcGwire.   Sandberg mentions that he did not play the game in order to be validated by the Hall of Fame, rather out of respect for his profession.<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/opinion/27brooks.html?ref=opinion" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/opinion/27brooks.html?ref=opinion</a></p>
<p>Some seem to assume that unless McGwire begs for entry into the Hall of Fame, the quality of his working life has not been validated.   McGwire is either too proud, they assume.  Or too ashamed of his choices.   Maybe this is so.   </p>
<p>Yet there are other possible explanations for what McGwire&#8217;s silence may connote.   For instance, he could feel like he gave his utmost when he played.   He could feel, like Sandberg, he did not play for personal acclaim like the HoF, but with respect for his craft.   The petty world of baseball has become besotted about PEDs, such that there is not a respectful environment for McGwire.   He does not owe fans anymore.  They can engage in their speculations.  He is getting on with the rest of his life.   If so, good for him.</p>
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		<title>By: JumboShrimp</title>
		<link>http://thecardinalnationblog.com/2009/01/20/mac-declines-to-speak-up/#comment-579</link>
		<dc:creator>JumboShrimp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecardinalnation.com/?p=1046#comment-579</guid>
		<description>Some of this story has plausibility.  If the kid brother was a weight-lifter, who like so many others used steroids, then he would be a family member who could advise Mark how to use steroids to strengthen (without bulking up so much as to be counterproductive for baseball).  Maybe one reason Mark did not want to talk about the topic is it would lead to family.  
The brother claims Mark does not care about campaigning for membership in the Hall of Fame; sounds possible.   
Body-building for prizes may be a form of narciscism (sp).   If so, it seems apt to rat out your vastly more famous brother in order to selfishly make a few bucks from selling a book.   Grounds for estrangement are understandable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of this story has plausibility.  If the kid brother was a weight-lifter, who like so many others used steroids, then he would be a family member who could advise Mark how to use steroids to strengthen (without bulking up so much as to be counterproductive for baseball).  Maybe one reason Mark did not want to talk about the topic is it would lead to family.<br />
The brother claims Mark does not care about campaigning for membership in the Hall of Fame; sounds possible.<br />
Body-building for prizes may be a form of narciscism (sp).   If so, it seems apt to rat out your vastly more famous brother in order to selfishly make a few bucks from selling a book.   Grounds for estrangement are understandable.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://thecardinalnationblog.com/2009/01/20/mac-declines-to-speak-up/#comment-577</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecardinalnation.com/?p=1046#comment-577</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a fan of Deadspin, especially after they had to recant their steroid accusations against Albert Pujols&#039; trainer and therefore Albert. They have another Cards-related &#039;roids story - this one about McGwire&#039;s brother&#039;s new book. Estranged little brother Jay seems to be in a debate with Canseco over who injected Big Mac first.  Sad what people will do for money... 

http://deadspin.com/5136177/mark-mcgwires-one+eyed-baby-brother-reveals-the-not+so+startling-truth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a fan of Deadspin, especially after they had to recant their steroid accusations against Albert Pujols&#8217; trainer and therefore Albert. They have another Cards-related &#8216;roids story &#8211; this one about McGwire&#8217;s brother&#8217;s new book. Estranged little brother Jay seems to be in a debate with Canseco over who injected Big Mac first.  Sad what people will do for money&#8230; </p>
<p><a href="http://deadspin.com/5136177/mark-mcgwires-one+eyed-baby-brother-reveals-the-not+so+startling-truth" rel="nofollow">http://deadspin.com/5136177/mark-mcgwires-one+eyed-baby-brother-reveals-the-not+so+startling-truth</a></p>
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		<title>By: JumboShrimp</title>
		<link>http://thecardinalnationblog.com/2009/01/20/mac-declines-to-speak-up/#comment-542</link>
		<dc:creator>JumboShrimp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecardinalnation.com/?p=1046#comment-542</guid>
		<description>Linked below is what Fox News once reported from a respected pediatrician.   Its expert perspective and powerful.   
http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/601884.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linked below is what Fox News once reported from a respected pediatrician.   Its expert perspective and powerful.<br />
<a href="http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/601884.html" rel="nofollow">http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/601884.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: COVINGTONTIGER</title>
		<link>http://thecardinalnationblog.com/2009/01/20/mac-declines-to-speak-up/#comment-541</link>
		<dc:creator>COVINGTONTIGER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecardinalnation.com/?p=1046#comment-541</guid>
		<description>I agree Chris. Mark should be in the Hall, and I think we have shone him and injustice for simply doing what many have done, take the 5th , for more serious reasons with less criticism.That being said, he would be better served to to do as Tony has suggested and face it head on, and clear the air.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Chris. Mark should be in the Hall, and I think we have shone him and injustice for simply doing what many have done, take the 5th , for more serious reasons with less criticism.That being said, he would be better served to to do as Tony has suggested and face it head on, and clear the air.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://thecardinalnationblog.com/2009/01/20/mac-declines-to-speak-up/#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thecardinalnation.com/?p=1046#comment-540</guid>
		<description>As they say, pride goeth before the fall.  As was discussed in an earlier post, McGwire deserves to be in the Hall and the real question will come when Bonds is eligible.  McGwire chose to take the 5th before Congress which is his right as an American.  It is not an acknowledgment of guilt, anybody can invoke that right for any reason.  To hold that against him seems not only wrong, but un-American.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As they say, pride goeth before the fall.  As was discussed in an earlier post, McGwire deserves to be in the Hall and the real question will come when Bonds is eligible.  McGwire chose to take the 5th before Congress which is his right as an American.  It is not an acknowledgment of guilt, anybody can invoke that right for any reason.  To hold that against him seems not only wrong, but un-American.</p>
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